Lukaku - transfer speculation | Gone

[AgentP]

With Lukaku leaving, we need someone else to get us the extra goals he scored. In a way, I'm happy that he is leaving because it would help us in moving towards a more fluid style of play.

In my opinion, we should move to 442 diamond and play with two strikers as I feel Rashford isn't good enough to lead the line on his own.

Felix - Rashford
Bruno
Pogba - - - - McT
Fred/Rabiot
Shaw CB Lindelof AWB
DDG
​

If we can get a team like this for the new season, we can look forward to some tasty football!

In euros,
Felix - 120m
Bruno - 70m
AWB - 60m
Rabiot - free
New CB - 70m
James - 20m

That's 340m euros. That's what it will cost for us to get a team together that can win the title in a few years. We can get back some money from the sale of Lukaku, Darmian and few more. Maybe 100m max. So a net investment of 240m is needed.

 

[11101]

Not the best example. RVN was an absolutely phenomenal CF. His general play was also underrated. We would have won plenty with him upfront if we had a better team at the time.

Maybe its exaggerated but the point still holds merit. We played with a fairly fluid front line pre 2001 and did so again after 2006. He was a brilliant striker for us but it's not wrong to say we struggled a bit to set the team up around a proper focal point centre forward.

Lukaku seems to require the same set up but has far less ability than RVN. I don't think any of us realised how poor he actually was when doing anything other than running at defenders. He won't be missed in the slightest.

 

[Garethw]

I've never got this argument, he scores goals, I'd rather him score in 14 games against weaker opposition than in 6 games against the better opposition.

I think what people mean by this is that Lukaku very rarely scores the all important winning goals. Most of his goals are number three or four when we give someone a pasting.

His record against the top teams is horrendous for a first choice striker at a top club.

 

[flappyjay]

I think what people mean by this is that Lukaku very rarely scores the all important winning goals. Most of his goals are number three or four when we give someone a pasting.

His record against the top teams is horrendous for a first choice striker at a top club.

Thats so wrong on many levels, do we even give pasting on the regualr anymore. He does score a lot of important goals but it's mostly against the cannon fodder

 

[haram]

I think what people mean by this is that Lukaku very rarely scores the all important winning goals. Most of his goals are number three or four when we give someone a pasting.

You have to give evidence because this sounds very incorrect.

 

[Garethw]

Thats so wrong on many levels, do we even give pasting on the regualr anymore. He does score a lot of important goals but it's mostly against the cannon fodder

Been deprived of good attacking football for so long now that a 2-0 win feels like giving someone a pasting

 

[2cents]

You have to give evidence because this sounds very incorrect.

I went through his stats here - http://www.redcafe.net/threads/lukaku-transfer-speculation.447592/page-4#post-24153062

I concluded that in 17/18 “His goals were crucial in picking up 13 points, winning us matches we would have drawn against Bournemouth, West Brom, Chelsea and Crystal Palace, and helping secure a draw against Stoke” while last season “his goals were crucial in picking up 10 points against other opposition, winning us matches we would have lost or drawn against Burnley, Watford, Palace and Southampton, and helping to secure a draw against Southampton. He also secured the famous win in Paris with two goals.”

 

[flappyjay]

Been deprived of good attacking football for so long now that a 2-0 win feels like giving someone a pasting

True. Was watching our goals from last season and I found out Ole's 5-1 vs Cardiff was the 1st time we had scored that much in the league since Sir Alex retired.

 

[Cloud7]

Good lad, get yourself your dream move away from United

 

[flappyjay]

I went through his stats here - http://www.redcafe.net/threads/lukaku-transfer-speculation.447592/page-4#post-24153062

I concluded that in 17/18 “His goals were crucial in picking up 13 points, winning us matches we would have drawn against Bournemouth, West Brom, Chelsea and Crystal Palace, and helping secure a draw against Stoke” while last season “his goals were crucial in picking up 10 points against other opposition, winning us matches we would have lost or drawn against Burnley, Watford, Palace and Southampton, and helping to secure a draw against Southampton. He also secured the famous win in Paris with two goals.”

Exactly. He is streaky but he tends to score one's and two's during his streaks which means his goals tend to help in picking up points

 

[haram]

I went through his stats here - http://www.redcafe.net/threads/lukaku-transfer-speculation.447592/page-4#post-24153062

I concluded that in 17/18 “His goals were crucial in picking up 13 points, winning us matches we would have drawn against Bournemouth, West Brom, Chelsea and Crystal Palace, and helping secure a draw against Stoke” while last season “his goals were crucial in picking up 10 points against other opposition, winning us matches we would have lost or drawn against Burnley, Watford, Palace and Southampton, and helping to secure a draw against Southampton. He also secured the famous win in Paris with two goals.”

Even with this it does not include assists, indirect contributions. Scoring the second goal in a 2-0 win is still worth something. Stuff like this excludes way too much context. For example when we beat Liverpool at Old Trafford, Rashford scores the two goals but Lukaku played a massive part as the number 9.

 

[Enigma_87]

With Lukaku leaving, we need someone else to get us the extra goals he scored. In a way, I'm happy that he is leaving because it would help us in moving towards a more fluid style of play.

In my opinion, we should move to 442 diamond and play with two strikers as I feel Rashford isn't good enough to lead the line on his own.

Felix - Rashford
Bruno
Pogba - - - - McT
Fred/Rabiot
Shaw CB Lindelof AWB
DDG
​

If we can get a team like this for the new season, we can look forward to some tasty football!

In euros,
Felix - 120m
Bruno - 70m
AWB - 60m
Rabiot - free
New CB - 70m
James - 20m

That's 340m euros. That's what it will cost for us to get a team together that can win the title in a few years. We can get back some money from the sale of Lukaku, Darmian and few more. Maybe 100m max. So a net investment of 240m is needed.

There is no goals in that team. Rashford is still erratic to lead the line. Felix and Bruno scored in much inferior leagues.

We will struggle to get a goal lining up like that.

 

[SilentWitness]

From his point of view it makes sense to leave. Doesn’t fit in with the style of play and is severely underrated by most of your fans. From your point unless you buy another striker I’d be shocked.

 

[roonster09]

I went through his stats here - http://www.redcafe.net/threads/lukaku-transfer-speculation.447592/page-4#post-24153062

I concluded that in 17/18 “His goals were crucial in picking up 13 points, winning us matches we would have drawn against Bournemouth, West Brom, Chelsea and Crystal Palace, and helping secure a draw against Stoke” while last season “his goals were crucial in picking up 10 points against other opposition, winning us matches we would have lost or drawn against Burnley, Watford, Palace and Southampton, and helping to secure a draw against Southampton. He also secured the famous win in Paris with two goals.”

That's not the proper way isn't it? Remember having same conversation with different user last year. Points won should be considered even if he scores second goal just to increase lead from 1 goal to 2 goals. For example, 1-0, 2-1 are always dangerous scorelines, one mistake means teams drop points. So usually teams are nervous and drop deeper naturally. If some player extends 1 goal lead to 2, it gives team more confidence to see out the game.

I agree with stat padding by scoring 3rd or 4th goal but for me extending 1 goal lead to 2 is also important goal and plays part in getting the points.

 

[2cents]

Even with this it does not include assists, indirect contributions. Scoring the second goal in a 2-0 win is still worth something. Stuff like this excludes way too much context.

Fine, I understand raw stats are an imperfect way of evaluating any player’s all round contribution to a team. However given that the only real argument made in Lukaku’s favor is that “he scores goals” (though typically with the caveat of “when given the right service”) with zero context provided, it is absolutely fair to break down those goal scoring stats to see what they suggest about his contribution. Points secured are just one aspect of this contribution - some of the other aspects I looked at there are even less impressive.

 

[2cents]

That's not the proper way isn't it? Remember having same conversation with different user last year. Lukaku would have still on the point if he scores second goal just to increase lead from 1 goal to 2 goals. For example, 1-0, 2-1 are always dangerous scorelines, one mistake means teams drop points. So usually teams are nervous and drop deeper naturally. If some player extends 1 goal lead to 2, it gives team more confidence to see out the game.

I agree with stat padding by scoring 3rd or 4th goal but for me extending 1 goal lead to 2 is also important goal and plays part in getting the points.

Yes I recognize it’s not a perfect way to judge these things.

 

[Judas]

As long as replace him I’d happily happily get rid. If we’re not buying another striker though we’re idiots for letting him go.

 

[haram]

Fine, I understand raw stats are an imperfect way of evaluating any player’s all round contribution to a team. However given that the only real argument made in Lukaku’s favor is that “he scores goals” (though typically with the caveat of “when given the right service”) with zero context provided, it is absolutely fair to break down those goal scoring stats to see what they suggest about his contribution. Points secured are just one aspect of this contribution - some of the other aspects I looked at there are even less impressive.

Actually there was a relationship between him and Lingard as the number 10 which will not come up in stats but helped us in home games the season before last. There is a contrast between how Ibra and Lukaku position themselves and it’s one reason why our form improved when Lukaku replaced Ibra.

 

[Devil81]

Going to say the same as the Pogba thread, not really bothered if he leaves. Last season he was so out of shape it was a joke, so based on that I'd say don't let the door hit you on the way out Romelu.

 

[2cents]

Actually there was a relationship between him and Lingard as the number 10 which will not come up in stats but helped us in home games the season before last. There is a contrast between how Ibra and Lukaku position themselves and it’s one reason why our form improved when Lukaku replaced Ibra.

An argument against Lukaku is not necessary an argument in favor of Ibrahimovic, who wasn’t particularly impressive himself in 16/17, though it’s reasonable to expect less from a free transfer in his mid-30s.

 

[manuchamp88]

How he plays for the other Red Devils is irrelevant. It's clear he's not a United striker.

 

[haram]

An argument against Lukaku is not necessary an argument in favor of Ibrahimovic, who wasn’t particularly impressive himself in 16/17, though it’s reasonable to expect less from a free transfer in his mid-30s.

Ok but that doesn’t change the point that Lukaku helped the number 10 to flourish and in fact Lingard went through the best form in his career as a result. It doesn’t come up in stats but there is a clear difference to how Ibra and Lukaku positioned themselves against teams who sit deep against us.

 

[dove]

It's ok selling him if we replace with someone else. If we hope Rashy and Martial will step up instead, Ole might not even survive December.

 

[Adisa]

I don't know what the people complaining want. The coach does not fancy him. Want do you want the club to do. Keep a £70m asset on the bench and watch his value reduxe to nothing?
Bring in an all round attacker and revolutionise the way we play. If we are backing Ole, sell him. Bring in Dybala, imo, the best half 9 money can buy this summer.

 

[2cents]

Ok but that doesn’t change the point that Lukaku helped the number 10 to flourish and in fact Lingard went through the best form in his career as a result. It doesn’t come up in stats but there is a clear difference to how Ibra and Lukaku positioned themselves against teams who sit deep against us.

So what your argument boils down to is that Lingard’s brief purple patch last season was down to Lukaku staying further up the pitch? I’m willing to accept this may have had some impact on our relatively better form that season - it should be possible to determine to some degree from the stats, just find out of games they played together and assess the results accordingly. However as a case in favor of our leading forward, with all his blatantly obvious limitations, i find it really really lame.

 

[haram]

So what your argument boils down to is that Lingard’s brief purple patch last season was down to Lukaku staying further up the pitch? I’m willing to accept this may have had some impact on our relatively better form that season - it should be possible to determine to some degree from the stats, just find out of games they played together and assess the results accordingly. However as a case in favor of our leading forward, with all his blatantly obvious limitations, i find it really really lame.

Look at the games where we dropped points at home. Apart from City and the freak game against West Brom after winning at the Etihad, we dropped points against Southampton and Burnley.

Southampton, Lukaku was injured and Rashford played up front and we were toothless. Burnley, Lukaku and Ibra started together and we went 2-0 down. Lingard comes on for Ibra and we draw 2-2.

I never said Lingard’s form was down to Lukaku, but Rom did help. Ibra drops deep and Rom occupies the CB’s far better and in a more disciplined way. This naturally opens up space for players in the AM position. Lingard generally plays better at number 10 because he uses the spaces well, whereas he is not very good on the right as we all know.

 

[charlenefan]

I don't know what the people complaining want. The coach does not fancy him. Want do you want the club to do. Keep a £70m asset on the bench and watch his value reduxe to nothing?
Bring in an all round attacker and revolutionise the way we play. If we are backing Ole, sell him. Bring in Dybala, imo, the best half 9 money can buy this summer.

The problem I have is letting Lukaku go and not replacing him which right now does seem like something that could happen. We need a RB, ok it seems AWB has been targeted. We need a CB, ok it seems like De Ligt and Maguire have been targeted. We need a CM, hardly anything on this so far. If we sell Lukaku we need to replace him and yet so far we've not been linked with any goal scorers. Who knows maybe a deadline move for Bale on loan will be the answer?

 

[R'hllor]

Ok lets say he leaves, who people want instead, have in mind that it looks Rashy is number one pick for Ole. Do we go for sub similar to Rashy so style doesnt change much or we get proper target man sub and use it as our plan B?

 

[2cents]

Look at the games where we dropped points at home. Apart from City and the freak game against West Brom after winning at the Etihad, we dropped points against Southampton and Burnley.

Southampton, Lukaku was injured and Rashford played up front and we were toothless. Burnley, Lukaku and Ibra started together and we went 2-0 down. Lingard comes on for Ibra and we draw 2-2.

I never said Lingard’s form was down to Lukaku, but Rom did help. Ibra drops deep and Rom occupies the CB’s far better and in a more disciplined way. This naturally opens up space for players in the AM position. Lingard generally plays better at number 10 because he uses the spaces well, whereas he is not very good on the right as we all know.

Totally understand not wanting to discuss that City game.

The rest seems like an argument in favor of the ‘silent domination’ thesis. It may have some merit, but we tend to expect a whole lot more at this club from our forwards. Or at least we used to.

Since Lukaku is often compared to Andy Cole on here, here’s an example - Cole vs. Leeds away in 99/00, fashions a chance out of nothing with a great first touch before bullying one of the league’s top defenders to win us a high pressure match against a top quality opponent:


Is it too much to expect Lukaku to do something like this at some point during his time with us? Even once?

 

[dwd]

Bellend by his toes, don’t care if he goes.

 

[WPMUFC]

If we have a target better than lukaku lined up and we can get them, absolutely no issues with him leaving.

If we aren't replacing him, RIP the redcafe forum meltdowns after 10 games next season and fans calling for Greenwood to replace rashford.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Lost any respect for him when he started agitating for a move through the press right before the biggest games of our season, he had only been out of the team a few weeks as well.

Not bothered if he leaves. Happy to gamble on Greenwood.

 

[haram]

Totally understand not wanting to discuss that City game.

The rest seems like an argument in favor of the ‘silent domination’ thesis. It may have some merit, but we tend to expect a whole lot more at this club from our forwards. Or at least we used to.

Since Lukaku is often compared to Andy Cole on here, here’s an example - Cole vs. Leeds away in 99/00, fashions a chance out of nothing with a great first touch before bullying one of the league’s top defenders to win us a high pressure match against a top quality opponent:


Is it too much to expect Lukaku to do something like this at some point during his time with us? Even once?

Well he is Romelu Lukaku, not Andy cole. He is a talented striker but lets not pretend as if the team he is playing in is good in the first place. If a striker scores 25 league goals before joining us and has such a great International record we have to ask bigger questions of our team.

As for what he can produce in big games, 2 goals vs PSG, 2 assists vs Arsenal, goal and assist vs Chelsea domination of Lovren and link play with Rashford against Liverpool. These are passes and crosses of high quality.

 

[Can7onA]

I couldn't give a feck about Lukaku, I don't care how great he was for Everton and is for Belgium.

I care about what he does Man Utd and lets be honest, he's been wank.

 

[2cents]

lets not pretend as if the team he is playing in is good in the first place.

I agree the team is poor. One of the reasons (among many) being that Lukaku is (supposed to be) our star striker.

 

[haram]

I agree the team is poor. One of the reasons (among many) being that Lukaku is (supposed to be) our star striker.

A striker who scored 25 goals in the league the season before joining us and has a top international record.... I know where the problem is.

 

[AgentP]

There is no goals in that team. Rashford is still erratic to lead the line. Felix and Bruno scored in much inferior leagues.

We will struggle to get a goal lining up like that.

It's a bit of a risk for sure. I'm hoping Bruno and Felix will be able to deliver because they certainly have the quality. Also, it's not like there are any clear replacements for Lukaku. So its a risk that could pay off handsomely.

 

[Enigma_87]

It's a bit of a risk for sure. I'm hoping Bruno and Felix will be able to deliver because they certainly have the quality. Also, it's not like there are any clear replacements for Lukaku. So its a risk that could pay off handsomely.

Tbh I'd rather keep him until we have lined up and identified replacement first.

 

[red thru&thru]

Maybe its exaggerated but the point still holds merit. We played with a fairly fluid front line pre 2001 and did so again after 2006. He was a brilliant striker for us but it's not wrong to say we struggled a bit to set the team up around a proper focal point centre forward.

Lukaku seems to require the same set up but has far less ability than RVN. I don't think any of us realised how poor he actually was when doing anything other than running at defenders. He won't be missed in the slightest.

Thank you for clarifying my point. It is an exaggerated point but sometimes this is what is required.

Also, I'm not comparing RvN to Lukaku...RvN was the far superior player.

 

[Devil may care]

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That sounds like he's off.