LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!

[Spock]

Stick with Van Gaal for now, no immediate sacking, but unless results significantly improve we should let him go in the summer.

Whatever you think of LVG, does anyone want a "lame duck" manager?

Van Gaal's critics should acknowledge the injury crisis we're dealing. It's fukkin incredible. Still, he has to be held account for disastrous results such as today.

 

[mu77]

Yes I suppose those two managers have strung a couple of decent results together haven't they - Ranieri out Van Gaal in! And woe betide Ranieri drops any points, because this Tuchel fella sounds great - actually Ranieri out Tuchel in! But hang on, what about the much-discussed Klopp, who WAS the greatest manager of all time on Sunday at 4pm, but by 6pm, he had been beaten by Shteve McLaren, who at 4pm on Sunday was the WORST manager of all time, so now surely it is in fact Shteve McClaren who is the king of all the managers and should instantly replace Tuchel as Manchester Utd boss?

so we should have kept moyes? then we'd look a solid club because we stood behind our manager no matter what!

 

[UnitedinRed]

Not entirely true. He said he thinks we'll throw more money at it but that questions need to be asked as to whether Van Gaal can be trusted with more money. He also said we've been shite since he arrived and it's not just tonight that is the issue.

So rubbish basically. We had some very good games last season and did what was required of us. Shite? Depends who you ask.

This year we've hit a shit patch and the whole worlds come crumbling down. I don't think comments from the likes of Owen, Scholes or Rio help anyone at the club. I assume they still have contacts, bet its great to see mates slamming you every week. And if the players feel its all the manager like some, then there's our issue, players thinking they don't have a responsibility. Not that I believe its the case mind.

They are towing the stations line. Helping to create a crisis that doesn't exist. Many more are lapping it up.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

Just out of curiosity, Has he ever accepted his fault in losing a game over the past 18 months?. Its always seem to be something else.

Arsenal springs to mind. However it is not like we lose every week.

 

[UnitedinRed]

so we should have kept moyes? then we'd look a solid club because we stood behind our manager no matter what!

If you can't work out why Moyes was sacked and why van Gaal is unlikely to be sacked unless he repeats what Moyes did, then there is little point going further.

Your mind is firmly made up. Once that happens, it will take a lot to change it. Not even the title would I suspect.

 

[Enigma_87]

Stick with Van Gaal for now, no immediate sacking, but unless results significantly improve we should let him go in the summer.

Whatever you think of LVG, does anyone want a "lame duck" manager?

Van Gaal's critics should acknowledge the injury crisis we're dealing. It's fukkin incredible. Still, he has to be held account for disastrous results such as today.

Lame duck or Giggs experiment will no doubt be even worse. I'd sack Van Gaal only if Ancelotti wants to take over, as at the moment he's the only manager in the season who is a better choice(or Jose if he's sacked by Chelsea, which I won't rule against).

Other top choices - Pep, Simeone(if he's attainable at all) will be available only after the season ends.

 

[RustyS]

The thread is surprising. I kept hearing how entertainment is more important than winning. Tonight wasn't entertaining enough for you?

Anyway, I voted for "Evaluate at the end of the season". We still have three competitions to play in.

 

[mu77]

If you can't work out why Moyes was sacked and why van Gaal is unlikely to be sacked unless he repeats what Moyes did, then there is little point going further.

Your mind is firmly made up. Once that happens, it will take a lot to change it. Not even the title would I suspect.

not my point at all. neither was/is up for it. moyes over his head and LVG is out of step. it's now or at the end of the season if things don't turn around , i just don't see the upside in LVG. so we wait till summer. he'll be gone.

 

[UnitedinRed]

not my point at all. neither was/is up for it. moyes over his head and LVG is out of step. it's now or at the end of the season if things don't turn around , i just don't see the upside in LVG. so we wait till summer. he'll be gone.

Well its quite simple. Were not a great side yet. We have the makings of one. We have a set of young, talented attackers who don't just quite work yet, we have a seriously out of form 'leader' hampering any chance of then gelling as a unit though.

We have a much improved midfield, though feeling the pinch due to injuries. We have a defence that if set up correctly, is almost impenetrable. If its not, its easily exposed. We lack the balance between attacking and defence that will come with time. As these players grow, our play will improve. We've seen it already, what were capable of but we cannot do that every week. Not with the expectations the club has anyway.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

Should be sacked at the end of the season. There's too much dullness instilled in the team. He's killed off all instinct and urgency.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

I voted "let him see out his contract", but only if he reaches top 4.
In the case he wins the League or CL i would happily see him staying past his contract, but i doubt he will change the plan of retiring.

 

[Full Member]

I say leave it until the end of the season and then sack him (but ensure that there is somebody there to step in and improve on what he's done). This way, there wont be that issue that Sir AF was talking about when he said the players switched off because they knew he was going. They will all expect him to see out his contract into 16/17. I don't think we should sack LVG unless there is someone better who's able to take over (as mentioned) though. I would love Pep, but i'll also like Anchelotti. I think Pep's on his way to Citeh but Anchelotti's just there waiting for an offer. It would be foolish for us to wait till next year for LVG to see out his contract, and be left in another situation where all the class managers aren't available.

With that said... If Pep is definitely going to City, and Anchelotti's going to be taking the first job that comes his way (if we dont make a move now) then we should go for him and pay off LVG's contract. In this situation, i'd either sign Anchelotti up for taking over in the summer, or have him take over immediately and pay LVG off.

LVG has done the job he was brought in to do - to steady the ship - but i don't think he can take us much further IMO.

 

[Gerald G]

Evaluate at the end of the season.

 

[spwd]

Stick with Van Gaal for now, no immediate sacking, but unless results significantly improve we should let him go in the summer.

Whatever you think of LVG, does anyone want a "lame duck" manager?

Van Gaal's critics should acknowledge the injury crisis we're dealing. It's fukkin incredible. Still, he has to be held account for disastrous results such as today.

Yes but it's his fault the squad is so thin that this causes a major problem

 

[Full Member]

I voted "let him see out his contract", but only if he reaches top 4.
In the case he wins the League or CL i would happily see him staying past his contract, but i doubt he will change the plan of retiring.

We are miles away from this. We are at Europa League level currently, and the way we're playing; we're not going to be appealing to the World's best forwards that we need.

 

[Moriarty]

He was saying that's its rediculous we've spent this money and in his opinion have a worse squad than when LVG took over...

Hmmm.... We've certainly got a smaller squad but worse? I dunno.

 

[GeneralGattuso]

If Ancelotti is available and wants the job, he should get it come the morning.

If there is no other quality manager available, LvG should finish the season.

I don't get the urge to appoint Ancelotti. I get that he is a great manager, LVG is a great manager (you don't win with Ajax, Barca, Bayern and take Holland to the late stages of the World Cup without being great) but neither really suit Man Utd as a club. Ancelotti did well with Real and he was more expansive than Mourinho but it wasn't the all out attacking "galatico" football that many in Madrid crave. He's a better choice than Mou and probably a better fit for us than LVG but I still don't think he'd make us that exciting to watch. Klopp got the nod ahead of Ancelotti (assuming he wanted it) for Liverpool because of the type of football Klopp brings, it's that same kind of football that I believe we want here... I'm still gutted Klopp has gone to Liverpool, I was praying they took Ancelotti, I like the guy, love his style but I can't stand seeing him in a Liverpool kit - made worse by LVG as he refuses to see his failings and adapt his game. The only other proven manager I would want right now is Pep himself; different to Klopp but attack minded and high energy styles. Failing that, find a relatively unknown manager who will do exactly that, it might led to the odd thrashing but at least it would be entertaining!

 

[mu77]

Well its quite simple. Were not a great side yet. We have the makings of one. We have a set of young, talented attackers who don't just quite work yet, we have a seriously out of form 'leader' hampering any chance of then gelling as a unit though.

We have a much improved midfield, though feeling the pinch due to injuries. We have a defence that if set up correctly, is almost impenetrable. If its not, its easily exposed. We lack the balance between attacking and defence that will come with time. As these players grow, our play will improve. We've seen it already, what were capable of but we cannot do that every week. Not with the expectations the club has anyway.

this doesn't take into consideration any of the crazy subs and formation changes he just chucks out there, he's not prepared to do the job and is already a lame duck if he's off after next season. i'd be done with him now TBH , it's been consistently inconsistent. 3 windows no balance. i'm not up for 3 more. some of us assume he'll sort out the attack. i'm not one of them.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

We are miles away from this. We are at Europa League level currently, and the way we're playing; we're not going to be appealing to the World's best forwards that we need.

I do realise we aren't exactly favourites to win the CL, but it was just "in case".
We don't have to buy the world's best forwards, players like Mane are what we need.

 

[cacs]

some of the players need to take responsibility for the chances they are missing, the structure is there to score goals.

 

[UnitedinRed]

End of contract unless Pep, and only Pep was to declare he wanted the job (to the club, not on twitter). I actually think in that situation, van Gaal would step down. He would be happy for Pep to continue the work he started and take us further.

I think this is the actual plan, though for 2017, which is when Peps contract runs out, no? Should Bayern not want a manager who is leaving in 12 months, it nay happen sooner.

If this is the plan, and its merely a guess based on hope, then it would be a case of fair play, to all. As long as its not Giggs.

 

[UnitedinRed]

some of the players need to take responsibility for the chances they are missing, the structure is there to score goals.

Doesn't van Gaal control them with his dualshock 4?

 

[Full Member]

I do realise we aren't exactly favourites to win the CL, but it was just "in case".
We don't have to buy the world's best forwards, players like Mane are what we need.

I agree. But however good Mane and players like Mahrez would be; theyre going to be up against the very best players in the World the later you go in the CL. But... I'd love those two (in particular). Having them two would dramatically improve us going forward. Attackers under out current system tend not to flourish though, so why would they want to come here at the moment?

 

[GeneralGattuso]

The thread is surprising. I kept hearing how entertainment is more important than winning. Tonight wasn't entertaining enough for you?

Anyway, I voted for "Evaluate at the end of the season". We still have three competitions to play in.

It was an entertaining game... shame I had to wait so long for it and it's only because it was an absolute must-win. Why did it have to come to this before we get a game from LVG? I wouldn't say winning isn't important, and more than most are willing to win ugly (just look at Mourinho's teams and the fans while he is at the club) but we've been so cautious and negative while grinding out draws it's becoming painful to watch... give us one, wins or entertainment and you'd probably keep enough fans onside here, give neither and some are going to question what exactly it is it you bring to the club?

 

[Spock]

Yes but it's his fault the squad is so thin that this causes a major problem

I'm open to that argument but consider who is out injured at the moment.

Rooney (not actually injured IMHO), officially out with injury.
Herrera
Rojo
Jones
Shaw
Valencia
Schneiderlin

One might reply that only 5 of those 7 names should be considered "regular starters" but even that's HALF an outfield starting Xi. One should always expect 1 or 2 regular starters to be out at any point in time, but to have half a starting XI out due to injury puts any manager in a very difficult position.

That being acknowledged, I didn't like our starting XI today. Fellaini should not have started in place of Young. We I'd have stuck with Carrick and Schweinsteiger in the double pivot and gone with Young out right instead of Lingard, who played a decent game but just doesn't have the experience for a match like this. But in the end Smalling and Blind let us down today and I just don't know what could have been done by the manager to prevent that.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I voted evaluate at the end of the season, but that to me = sack at the end of the season.

 

[Enigma_87]

I don't get the urge to appoint Ancelotti. I get that he is a great manager, LVG is a great manager (you don't win with Ajax, Barca, Bayern and take Holland to the late stages of the World Cup without being great) but neither really suit Man Utd as a club. Ancelotti did well with Real and he was more expansive than Mourinho but it wasn't the all out attacking "galatico" football that many in Madrid crave. He's a better choice than Mou and probably a better fit for us than LVG but I still don't think he'd make us that exciting to watch. Klopp got the nod ahead of Ancelotti (assuming he wanted it) for Liverpool because of the type of football Klopp brings, it's that same kind of football that I believe we want here... I'm still gutted Klopp has gone to Liverpool, I was praying they took Ancelotti, I like the guy, love his style but I can't stand seeing him in a Liverpool kit - made worse by LVG as he refuses to see his failings and adapt his game. The only other proven manager I would want right now is Pep himself; different to Klopp but attack minded and high energy styles. Failing that, find a relatively unknown manager who will do exactly that, it might led to the odd thrashing but at least it would be entertaining!

Ancelotti is relatively young, has about 10 years on top level at least. Has won the CL 3 times with 2 different teams, won the league in 4 different countries, including Premiership.

He's well proven manager who is also proven and knows a thing or two about premiership as well. LvG is not.

Ancelotti won it with Chelsea when they scored 103 in the league.

He's one that can make an immediate impact, also again knows the language, culture etc.

He's also available right now even as interim manager(probably).

For me Ancelotti is much better manager than Klopp. Klopp failed to replace the players and the team he built and his last season at Dortmund was miserable to put it at least.

 

[Livewire1974]

In around 4 weeks he is half way through his contract. Do we give him loads more cash in the next transfer window?

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

I agree. But however good Mane and players like Mahrez would be; theyre going to be up against the very best players in the World the later you go in the CL. But... I'd love those two (in particular). Having them two would dramatically improve us going forward. Attackers under out current system tend not to flourish though, so why would they want to come here at the moment?

Because Manchester United is a huge club and of course a nice wage bump

Martial is working fine under LvG, we simply need more quality like him. I'm also sure Memphis will improve, his talent is there for all to see, although it has been in small samples.

 

[UnitedinRed]

In around 4 weeks he is half way through his contract. Do we give him loads more cash in the next transfer window?

Not loads but would you suggest not supporting him?

 

[ghagua]

Sack him now. Maybe, just maybe we can salvage something from the rest of the season. Out of the champions league, out of the league cup, soon will be sliding down the league as well. We are still in the F.A cup, because we have not played in that yet.

 

[Revan]

How is keeping us in the top 4 "turning it around"? We're already in the top 4.

We started good (on results, not performances), but in the last 10 matches or so (in all competitions), we have been showing relegation form.

Top 4 suddenly looks difficult.

 

[mu77]

Not loads but would you suggest not supporting him?

how much would be ok'd? i don't know if he's up for it. who's out there that would come here and turn around the attacking options with rooney being a auto choice.

 

[MelvinYeo]

How is keeping us in the top 4 "turning it around"? We're already in the top 4.

Judging by our recent form and performances, it won't be long before our place is under threat. We got top 4 last year by the virtue of the lucky winning streak in November and the run of big games in March, neither of which is likely to be repeated. The only thing LVG seems capable of now is to come up with Moyes-like excuses.

 

[Enigma_87]

I'm open to that argument but consider who is out injured at the moment.

Rooney (not actually injured IMHO), officially out with injury.
Herrera
Rojo
Jones
Shaw
Valencia
Schneiderlin

One might reply that only 5 of those 7 names should be considered "regular starters" but even that's HALF an outfield starting Xi. One should always expect 1 or 2 regular starters to be out at any point in time, but to have half a starting XI out due to injury puts any manager in a very difficult position.

That being acknowledged, I didn't like our starting XI today. Fellaini should not have started in place of Young. We I'd have stuck with Carrick and Schweinsteiger in the double pivot and gone with Young out right instead of Lingard, who played a decent game but just doesn't have the experience for a match like this. But in the end Smalling and Blind let us down today and I just don't know what could have been done by the manager to prevent that.

Rooney is on crap form and everyone calls him to be subbed off even if the game hasn't started yet.
Herrera is a loss, aye
Rojo is a backup anyway
Jones is constantly injured and wouldn't get a game today at CB given LvG love for Blind at CB.
Shaw is a huge loss, aye
Valencia lost his place to Darmian, then got it back when Darmian was in a bit of a hole, but yet he should be his replacement rather than first choice at the moment.
Schneiderlin was useless in the last games and not in form.

Out of those players I think only Shaw and Herrera should've started today.

The biggest fault that LvG has is going into a season with CL innit with one senior striker. Binning RvP, Falcao, Hernandez and bringing only 2 inexperienced lads - Depay and Martial was pretty wank decision for which he now pays the price.

 

[Revan]

Rooney is on crap form and everyone calls him to be subbed off even if the game hasn't started yet.
Herrera is a loss, aye
Rojo is a backup anyway
Jones is constantly injured and wouldn't get a game today at CB given LvG love for Blind at CB.
Shaw is a huge loss, aye
Valencia lost his place to Darmian, then got it back when Darmian was in a bit of a hole, but yet he should be his replacement rather than first choice at the moment.
Schneiderlin was useless in the last games and not in form.

Out of those players I think only Shaw and Herrera should've started today.

The biggest fault that LvG has is going into a season with CL innit with one senior striker. Binning RvP, Falcao, Hernandez and bringing only 2 inexperienced lads - Depay and Martial was pretty wank decision for which he now pays the price.

Schneiderlin should start always IMO. Without him our strong defense is actually crap.

In reality, from those players only three are starters in LVG setup (Rooney, Schneiderlin and Shaw). Which is around right in how I would like to see the team (replace Rooney for Herrera).

 

[UnitedinRed]

how much would be ok'd? i don't know if he's up for it. who's out there that would come here and turn around the attacking options with rooney being a auto choice.

Is Rooney auto choice though? I think the line has been crossed and Rooney's untouchable status is gone. Hopefully anyway.

And enough to pick up one or two attacking players. They could well be the difference for us. I would offer decent money for Mahrez or Mane. Neither are cup tied, not that it matters but should be attainable.

 

[Livewire1974]

Not loads but would you suggest not supporting him?

I would wait until January to make that decision. We dont know whats going on behind closed doors, maybe there is some master plan that most fans cant see right now.

 

[Enigma_87]

Schneiderlin should start always IMO. Without him our strong defense is actually crap.

In reality, from those players only three are starters in LVG setup (Rooney, Schneiderlin and Shaw). Which is around right in how I would like to see the team (replace Rooney for Herrera).

Schneiderlin has been on a pretty poor form lately. Given that I wouldn't start him in this decider ahead of Schweinsteiger and Carrick(who should've started along with Mata).

Schneiderlin in his 2nd half outing against PSV looked like a pub player.

 

[Tomuś]

I can understand those who want him out but I do not see this particular match as a good idea to create 'LvG out' thread on the back of it. Let me get this straight, we already knew it would be extremely difficult to win in Germany playing first 11, let alone such a random mix of players. We wanted to be adventurous and brave.

Look at the team tonight, it was probably the weakest 18 he's had in his time here and in the most important game to boot. And he did risk it, we were attacking, playing risky passes and committing many men forwards.

We lost it because Wolfsburg did well to come back to it twice in 2 minutes instead of letting us take a proper, dull control of the match. Chris Smalling decided that was that time to have his first shambles of a game this year and we were extremely easy to run past through the middle (injuries to Carrick and Schneiderlin). Ref didn't help matters to put it mildly as well.

Now, from a task given/task completed (K/O stages) point of view this is Van Gaal's blame and perhaps this thread should be seen as rational. That's the only explanation. All this I'm hearing 'That's the last straw, the frustration has been growing about his cowardly approach and dull football and now this...' This what? A full of verve performance where he used players than most people in Europe thought were FM regens? Attacking approach? He did what he could with this team and in this game, having 7 first-teamers out of the team.

He failed against PSV. Crystal Palace. Arsenal. He didn't throw a kitchen sink in some of the games he could have in the league which would see us top. That's the potential reason for wanting him out, not today.

As he pointed out after the game 'every word I say will be a bad word' and I symphatize with him, having been in such situations a couple of times in my life (we've all been). As it transpired, not only his words are bad regardless of what they are but also approach and tactics.

The axe is here for a long time, use it if you want then - when it makes sense. When we played as we hate (dull, gutless) and not when we did everything we could to atone it. Stop waiting for the 'right moment' because there's rarely one and this isn't. Unless we fall into the bracket of opposing fans we've always hated who only want their manager out afer exit from competitions of some sorts.