Leicester were playing against arguably the best team in Europe tbf. Whilst we were playing against one of the worst teams in the EPL.
Maguire and Lindelof Partnership
- Thread starter luke511
- Start date
Of course there is a difference, even though I didn’t see all those mistakes when United played Liverpool. My point is that other teams concede chances as well, it is normal. I think Newcastle had 2 shots on target yesterday, yet people complain that the defence had a poor match.
You’re comparing apples with pears. Plus Leicester were unusually bad yesterday!
I agree
You also have to take into account how much our back line cost in comparison to Leicester's @A-man
The expectations are also alot higher.
The expectations are also alot higher.
Yes. Leicester defence being apples, United defence being pears.
Yes the expectations are higher due to the high price of AWB and Maguire. And Leicester defence have been good this season, think they conceded 5 goals less than United this season. But it’s like people expect zero chances created, zero mistakes made, etc. It’s not realistic and for anybody who regularly watches other teams play, it should be quite clear that you will find the same everywhere. Quite a lot of chances are created in today’s football. This nitpicking in to details on defence is something relatively new, nothing we saw ten years ago.
Saturday will be a test for them against Burnley. We know Lindelof will be targeted in the air and it's likely to cost us at least one goal. Frustrating that we have such a glaring weak point in the team.
I just rewatched that dwight gayle chance and it shows you how bad a tackler lindelof is. We need someone aggressive to partner Maguire given he is our 80 million defender. Lindeof isnt a bad player for us but he isnt a great partner for Maguire since both of them are less than average in the toughness department. I think we should give tuanzebe a try sooner than later if we are serious about keeping clean sheets.
I don't think there's anything special at all about them as a partnership. I'd quite like to see Tuanzebe come in for the Burnley game seeing as we'll need to rotate a few anyway.
Did you just compare Newcastle's attack with Liverpool's?
There seems to be many who believe that Burnley will a big test. I haven’t watched Burnley enough to see why this is such a big test compared to Leicester, Liverpool and City, who have scored 40-50 goals so far. Is it that they are very strong in the air?
No, I don’t need to as I saw how United dealt with Liverpool. It was ok.
I just watch enough football to see that all team concede chances, not just United.
Especially against Liverpool and City
Agressive, strong in the air, two target men up front, away from home. It's the type of game we struggle with if we don't match them for effort.
Heh, Liverpool are arguably the best team in world atm, and we bought their 80 mil CB without them buying a replacement. And they are still 2nd in the table.
And with a better defensive record than last season with an £80 million CB
Last season they conceded 48 goals in 38 matches, this season 18 goals in 19 matches
We conceede goals too, not just chances. We are struggling to keep clean sheet against any opponent, that is not acceptable.
I think they have been pretty harshly treated to be honest. It’s far more difficult to defend in a side who are expected to be the aggressor than it is to be a penalty box defender in a counter-attacking side
Also, have to factor in that our GK is a disaster who concedes virtually every shot on target and stays motionless on his line all game. This puts huge pressure on the two CBs
Finally, how many of our goals are down to individual errors not relating to the CBs?
Also, have to factor in that our GK is a disaster who concedes virtually every shot on target and stays motionless on his line all game. This puts huge pressure on the two CBs
Finally, how many of our goals are down to individual errors not relating to the CBs?
Ok, I got it. It would be nice if we scored first for a change. The defence looked solid wheneading the game as they are comfortable with the ball but looked vulnerable for counters when the whole team moved up.
Agree, we concede goals. Just like all other teams. What is not acceptable imo are the losses to all the much weaker teams. Not acceptable from defence, not from attack and not from midfield. Like the match against Watford. No goals scored and 2 conceded from individual mistakes. That kind of games are not acceptable. But conceding 2-3 chances and 1 goal against Newcastle is acceptable especially when you score 4.
Thing is they were easily avoidable, Lindelöf never defends properly he just tries to stay in the area and Maguire is left to cover two positions. Maguire has his faults no doubt but God I haven't seen a defender being less proactive than Lindelöf. This partnership won't win you anything plus sometimes I think Lindelöf tries to give away chances for fun.
We have 5 draws against mediocre teams in which we conceeded goals, if we kept clean sheets in those games or conceeded just one less in just one or two of those games we would be far higher up the table. If you think our defending level this year is acceptable then you are deluded.
It depends where the chances come from. If its individual errors or poor defending from our CBs then no 3 chances given away is not good enough.
If its 3 chances and 1 has nothing to do with the CBs and the other 2 they just didnt get to the forwards in time, then its probably fine
We might allow and concede little, but it's the personal errors that usually costs us. Like Lindelöf 3-4 times and Rojo against Liverpool.
I really don't understand why Ole is not trying out Tuanzebe more. If his level coming from the bench is good, it'd be nice to know how he looks with consistent game-time. It's a transitional season anyways.
I really don't understand why Ole is not trying out Tuanzebe more. If his level coming from the bench is good, it'd be nice to know how he looks with consistent game-time. It's a transitional season anyways.
Tuanzebe has been poor when played. Too much overhyped here. I would try Rojo, Bailly and Jones over him.
I didn’t like Smalling due to his poor ability on the ball but I would have him next to Maguire every day of the week.
I'd rather not. Dominated by Joelinton against Newcastle and barely won duels against League one forwards. He's looked like an aggressive but weaker defender than Lindelof this season.
Lindelof has regressed this year and I don’t believe he and Maguire will form a long term partnership. Axel is the better fit with Maguire but we’ve just locked up Lindelof on a new deal so Ole will persist with him despite him being prone to errors.
.
Goals scored against bottom half
United 15 goals
City 39 goals
Goals conceded against bottom half
United 13 goals
City 9 goals
Points against bottom half
United 13 points
City 28 points
United have only conceded 4 goals more than City against bottom half teams, but City have scored 24 goals more which have given them 15 points more. The difference is not the defence but the number of goals scored.
I think it is you who are a bit deluded. If we look at the games against the weaker teams, positioned 10-20 in the table and compare United to City, it is rather clear that the problem is not conceding goals, but failing to score goals.
Goals scored against bottom half
United 15 goals
City 39 goals
Goals conceded against bottom half
United 13 goals
City 9 goals
Points against bottom half
United 13 points
City 28 points
United have only conceded 4 goals more than City against bottom half teams, but City have scored 24 goals more which have given them 15 points more. The difference is not the defence but the number of goals scored.
City is missing their entire backline for majority of season and you are comparing our first choice to them? And what's funny is that they are still better
We have just 2 clean sheets this season, and we are 18th in the league by clean sheets! However you try to portray it you can't prove that our defence is good enough for a team with so many highly priced defenders.
Against poor opposition both of them tend to lose focus and when that happen they dont look good.
VNL is not suited for EPL. I like him but he is better suited in à slower tactical country.
For 80 mil we should not even discuss which player he needs to cover for his lackness of speed. I rate him high but for 80 mil i want more tbh.
VNL is not suited for EPL. I like him but he is better suited in à slower tactical country.
For 80 mil we should not even discuss which player he needs to cover for his lackness of speed. I rate him high but for 80 mil i want more tbh.
You’re missing the whole point. It is not because of poor defence United only got 13 points against the bottom half teams. It is because they haven’t scored.City is missing their entire backline for majority of season and you are comparing our first choice to them? And what's funny is that they are still better
We have just 2 clean sheets this season, and we are 18th in the league by clean sheets! However you try to portray it you can't prove that our defence is good enough for a team with so many highly priced defenders.
City have conceded just a few less goals, but have scored 39 goals compared to United’s 15. That have resulted in 28 points against bottom half instead of 13 points.
I've not properly seen Tuanzebe play since the Arsenal game so you could be right, I'm just desperate to see something new.
There are times when Lindelof looks incapable of basic defending and the first half yesterday was no different. He doesn't exactly thrive on winning his duels either.
Lindelof is not prone to errors, he is prone to being ineffectual. He doesn't make many obvious errors because he plays in a highly cautious, passive manner. I also believe his performances last year were massively overstated, he wasn't making blatant individual mistakes because of his style of play but we had an all time awful defensive record.
City score awful lot goals so I am not really sure why are you comparing their attack with our defence? City have scored more goals than Liverpool yet they are 2 places and 14 points behind them.
If you want to talk about our attack here, then we have nothing more to discuss about here because this is a thread about Lindelof and Maguire.
It's not really working is it? I'd give tuanzebe or bailly a shot fairly soon.
Yes it is a thread about defence, but you blamed poor defence for poor execution against weaker teams. As I now have showed you, the few points against weaker teams are because of poor attack, not because of poor defence.
No, I haven't.
Any ideas when Bailly is back? Not sure he is an Ole favorite though.
The key problem of this partnership is that both players are slow. Therefore, when we have more possession, they are far away from attacker to be able to control runs. Cause of that, rival forwards will more often be able to easily get long balls and include midfielders in the attack. It could be prevented with excellent DM who would control space around rival attacker, but we don't have one.
Another problem is that Lindelof is weak in duels and once again needs help from DM or FB to be able to control long balls. If FB up the field, DM is crucial.
So, the key signing is DM. Someone who is able to control everything, and open space for Pogba and McTominay/Fred/whoever to be creative upfront and free to make mistake.
Another problem is that Lindelof is weak in duels and once again needs help from DM or FB to be able to control long balls. If FB up the field, DM is crucial.
So, the key signing is DM. Someone who is able to control everything, and open space for Pogba and McTominay/Fred/whoever to be creative upfront and free to make mistake.