Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director

[Anustart89]

Darren Fletcher’s a great guy and was a great player for us. Does that qualify him for this role though? I mean, over people who have a proven track record in the intended role?

It’s the same as the manager of this club and I really hope it works out but it feels like Woodward’s placing a United DNA shaped shield between him and the fans. If anyone’s going to be critical they’ll just be shouted down by people claiming United DNA rather than any previous qualifications.

They’ll be as likely to consider Ole’s position as Ole is with regards to his coaching staff. Doesn’t seem to me like a cutthroat environment that’ll be looking at results at all cost and be ruthless if needed.

 

[Withnail]

I’ll repeat myself again, I don’t think it’s useful having him report to one person who has previously been known to want control of footballing decisions. He clearly has to report to someone, but I honestly don’t see how this is anything other than a change of titles.

Sorry if it's old ground but I think it's fairly common and would be unusual for the DOF to report to anyone other than the CEO and hence the board.

Anything else would make it a more junior position surely?

You can make an argument that Ed shouldn't be in that position but that's a different thing.

 

[Withnail]

Everyone making a big deal about how long it took to name Murtough. Don't you realize United scoured the earth, and some say the solar system, to review and analyze every potential signing of a DOF for over a decade, only to eventually determine that the best potential DOF in the world just happened to be in the same building. What a story!

They even used a supercomputer purpose built for the job.

 

[talking robot]

We can debate over the qualities of the individuals, but from an organizational perspective the creation of these positions in the first place seems like an enormous step forward for the club...even if it obviously won't solve all our problems.

 

[Acquire Me]

Good news. This is the right way imo.

 

[Maticmaker]

Seems a strange outcome this?

Are there two new (additional posts) that have been created to meet defined job roles, or is it just new job titles, (with some extra pay) and extra duties aligned for existing staff?

TBH it doesn't fill me with excitement or confidence really, were the jobs advertised, was there an application and interview process, or did they both just get the 'nod'?

Best of luck to both of them, I feel they are going to need it, especially if it eventually becomes clear they are just Ed's 'whipping boys'.

 

[Roboc7]

I agree about Bruno but that seemed to me like they were haggling over the price for way too long more than anything. I’m not sure a DOF is going to be able to get the owners to part with their cash any quicker. Maybe if there’s a few influential people all in agreement about a signing the owners will buck their ideas up. Longstaff and Brooks and players like that are only good value as a punt for up to say 30 million. If we like those guys we should be doing a Munich and tapping them up and getting them on the cheap/free as their contracts run down. A more solid structure independent of who is the manager should let us follow these players and work on those kinds of deals over a year or even longer if necessary. That could save us a lot of cash when looking to get English players of a certain age in.

this is what I said earlier and I’ve been a huge critic of the way the club has been run post Fergie.

I was thinking the free transfers and long contracts for players we’d like to see moved on are just tiding us over until our youth breaks through, which actually makes it a pretty solid plan as long as the youth are genuinely top notch. Not just expensive fumbling to fill squad the squad with stop gaps as a cash saving exercise as I feared but an actual long term strategy. I expect to see a few more Amad/Pellistri type signings for the first team squad this summer but probably loaning most of them out for a season or 2 and then stick or sell. This is the cheaper but smarter way to go. Grow your own and sprinkle with a dash of world class and we are looking very tidy all of a sudden.

Sancho or haaland and an Amad type DM and I’d be over the moon. More than likely because of covid it’ll be the same set up as last summer. Maybe a 40/50 million defender and the few expensive younger lads and a free transfer which is still solid building. I hope we still compete for the Sanchos and Haalands of this world though and I think we will because they represent long term value and stability but it would be just as important that we don’t make the same mistakes again like when we had the chance to sign Haaland and Upamecano on the cheap. I’m sure that’s been an eye opener for the club.

I’m pretty happy with the way things are going under Ole. If we’d got Sancho last summer we would be in a title race this year. We aren’t far off at all anymore.

I think the key is Murtaugh, he’s the most qualified of the three. Fletcher is new to the role and Judge I think is fortunate to still have a job and think is an ex uni mate of Ed’s.

Murtaugh has been here since 2014 not a great period, so case of what he’s been involved/not been involved in during that time, does he have more influence/control than last summer transfer window or just his role being given a formal title.

Ultimately you can only spend what owners allow but there’s no question we can spend a lot better whatever the budget is.

 

[M Bison]

Darren Fletcher’s a great guy and was a great player for us. Does that qualify him for this role though? I mean, over people who have a proven track record in the intended role?

It’s the same as the manager of this club and I really hope it works out but it feels like Woodward’s placing a United DNA shaped shield between him and the fans. If anyone’s going to be critical they’ll just be shouted down by people claiming United DNA rather than any previous qualifications.

They’ll be as likely to consider Ole’s position as Ole is with regards to his coaching staff. Doesn’t seem to me like a cutthroat environment that’ll be looking at results at all cost and be ruthless if needed.

There's no right or wrong answer in my view, you could argue both sides of it I think.

On the Fletcher point though, every company has the same dilemma, is it a safer bet to promote from within or go for outside hire? Pro's and con's either way.

 

[M Bison]

We can debate over the qualities of the individuals, but from an organizational perspective the creation of these positions in the first place seems like an enormous step forward for the club...even if it obviously won't solve all our problems.

Exactly, as the saying goes "strategy, structure, people..."

 

[Judas]

Haven't people wanted a VDS type character at the club for ages, and then Fletcher gets hired its "what does he know really????". Textbook SadCafe.

 

[M Bison]

Haven't people wanted a VDS type character at the club for ages, and then Fletcher gets hired its "what does he know really????". Textbook SadCafe.

exactly

 

[Jackal]

You have made long and winding post about why we have made the wrong decision by appointing Fletcher and Murtough why it's an experiment which should have been avoided while giving the Example of Txiki Bergstein ,can you be so kind to give us the background of his appointment as Barcelona Sporting Director what exactly were his qualifications apart from being Ex Barca Player because I couldn't find one .

The glaring difference is his years of experience when City signed him - that was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Avero]

This is good news. Murtough and Fletcher are good choices. My impression is that everyone is working well together at the club right now but I also think that some roles seem too vaguely defined and unavailable.

Woodward at the top as CEO
Murtough as Football Director and Fletcher as Technical Director
Solskjaer and Stoney as managers, Im guessing Murtough and Fletcher will work with both of them

Judge handles player negotiations and reports to Murtough. Nick Cox is Head of Academy and reports to Murtough it seems. Then you have Butt who is Head of First Team Development and reports to Solskjaer, I guess his responsibility is making sure academy players make it in the first team. David Harrison is the Head of Youth Recruitment. What are the roles of people like "Strategy Manager" Chris Chiang and "Director of Football Operations" Alan Dawson? Les Parry looks after loan players it seems. Who negotiates staff contracts? Judge? There should be an organizational chart available somewhere.

 

[DSG]

This isn’t terrible news. Granted, if the announcement was introducing an enormously pedigreed outsider, we’d all be stoked. But as others have said, for the last two years, transfers and recruitment have been pretty decent. Maguire, AWB, Bruno, Cavani, etc. But I think the talent at youth level is the real target here, and we’ve made great strides in hoovering up young talent throughout Europe.

I’m optimistic.

 

[Yorkeontop]

There's still a whiff of the ol' manager worship about the announcement but we'll get there yet. Here's not here to help Ole as such, Ole is here to carry out his vision.

He will work alongside manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer to "align recruitment and other strategies and to ensure that the first team has the best-in-class operational support it needs", as well as "create the structures, processes and culture to deliver sustained success on the pitch" across all the teams under the Manchester United umbrella.

I'm just being pedantic but I would have liked the statement to just say the manager.

 

[always_hoping]

Underwhelming news. What United have here is repackaging, with Woodward and judge still having a key influence over transfers and player contracts. Real progress would be moving both away from those roles and replacing them with someone competent.

 

[talking robot]

Exactly, as the saying goes "strategy, structure, people..."

Totally agree. I think we are focusing too much on the individual personnel choices here.

 

[Ali Dia]

Haven't people wanted a VDS type character at the club for ages, and then Fletcher gets hired its "what does he know really????". Textbook SadCafe.

So so true.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Darren Fletcher’s a great guy and was a great player for us. Does that qualify him for this role though? I mean, over people who have a proven track record in the intended role?

Isn't Fletcher's role to be the guy who talks to players we want to sign and sell the club to them? Who better for that than a guy who was here for 20 years from youth to the first team and "made it" despite all the odds being stacked against him?

 

[Odin]

Can’t believe after all these years we’ve been crying out for a DOF but when we get one there’s people found something to moan about. Give the guy a chance!

They lost something to moan about. They are reinventing themselves...

 

[gajender]

The glaring difference is his years of experience when City signed him - that was the point I was trying to make.

So he was more like Murtough and Fletcher when Barcelona appointed him with no prior experience as Sporting Director who then hired Guardiola as manager who was novice without any top level experience because he was ex Barca player so according to your own logic he shouldn't have been given that job.

So your whole argument in favour of your stance actually proves quite the opposite.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Being cynical this is essentially a strawman appointment. He was already in house and we just shifted some people to new titles. Go back to your regularly scheduled program folks.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Thanks, Ed.

How grimly predictable.

 

[Champ]

United get with the times and give the fans what they want...
Yet still people complain.
You couldn't make it up

 

[FreakyJim]

Woodward just invented some titles for these guys and called it a day, didn't he. Decoys for the almighty Ed, our real DOF and overlord. Lurking in the shadows, plotting transfers and stuff.

 

[AltiUn]

Txiki's entire reputation was build on his success as DOF at Barcelona. What was his experience in that position prior to taking the Barcelona job?

Commentator

 

[shabz]

The way I look at is, who was David Gill before he came to United? He wasn't involved in any football related business prior. He made the job his own and created a great reputation for himself in the sport. You have to look at this 2 - 3 years down the line and see whether they've done a stand up job or not.

 

[RkkMan]

Man City hired Txiki(former Barcelona's DOF) and he's worked wonders for them. His success at Barcelona and the technical know-how plus the wealth of experience can only be an advantage. That is what we should be doing. We are already light years behind other big European clubs of our status, this appointment isn't an accelerator to catch up, it's a big brake-pump.

Txiki's appointment contributed to Man City signing Pep Guardiola. Sometimes, laying a good foundation internally at the club can attract top managers or top players. I really don't see how this appointment would catapult us back to our perch. It's like we have added another 20 years to the process. When this guy fails to attract top players, the ready made excuse would be "Be patient, he's still learning" - like we saw in the Moyes era.

Man Utd is too big a club to be handing out such important roles as an experiment. We should be signing former 'successful' football directors at Bayern, Madrid, Barcelona, etc.

Txiki himself had zero experience when he got the Barca job. BVB hired Zorc as DOF immediately he retired even though he had zero experience. Michael Edwards at Liverpool was hired from within. Also getting proven DOFs doesnt always come with success. Monchi was a catastrophic failure at Roma when everyone expected him to thrive there. Over the last years Paratici has been a disaster at Juve. Mislintat was a world class recruiter at BVB but failed miserably at Arsenal. Having the right structure is more important than a big name and thats what Utd are doing. Worst case scenario is if Murtough fails we can always hire another DOF as the role actually exists now but he has a CV thats at the very least worth gambling with it`s not a business man being thrown into a completely different role like with Woodward in 2013. Him being around the club for long means transition won`t be as drastic as hiring an outsider would be

 

[Ali Dia]

I think the key is Murtaugh, he’s the most qualified of the three. Fletcher is new to the role and Judge I think is fortunate to still have a job and think is an ex uni mate of Ed’s.

Murtaugh has been here since 2014 not a great period, so case of what he’s been involved/not been involved in during that time, does he have more influence/control than last summer transfer window or just his role being given a formal title.

Ultimately you can only spend what owners allow but there’s no question we can spend a lot better whatever the budget is.

it sounds like Ole is the first manager who actually asked for input from the club on identifying transfers. It seems LVG and Jose had their own thing going on and it set us back blindly backing them. Jim lawlor has a cracking success rate going back to Fergie’s time but the line was the managers wanted to do their own thing regardless of scout advice. Who knows really! All I know is it’s starting to feel like the United of old again for me. I wouldn’t be surprised to see us go for Rice (a real Fergie type signing) and sign Pogba up again. That would be the best use of what we already have instead of ripping up the team. I’m really interested to see what we end up doing now.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Darren Fletcher’s a great guy and was a great player for us. Does that qualify him for this role though? I mean, over people who have a proven track record in the intended role?

It’s the same as the manager of this club and I really hope it works out but it feels like Woodward’s placing a United DNA shaped shield between him and the fans. If anyone’s going to be critical they’ll just be shouted down by people claiming United DNA rather than any previous qualifications.

They’ll be as likely to consider Ole’s position as Ole is with regards to his coaching staff. Doesn’t seem to me like a cutthroat environment that’ll be looking at results at all cost and be ruthless if needed.

You’re probably right. Let’s see what the summer signings are like I suppose.

 

[Roboc7]

Darren Fletcher’s a great guy and was a great player for us. Does that qualify him for this role though? I mean, over people who have a proven track record in the intended role?

It’s the same as the manager of this club and I really hope it works out but it feels like Woodward’s placing a United DNA shaped shield between him and the fans. If anyone’s going to be critical they’ll just be shouted down by people claiming United DNA rather than any previous qualifications.

They’ll be as likely to consider Ole’s position as Ole is with regards to his coaching staff. Doesn’t seem to me like a cutthroat environment that’ll be looking at results at all cost and be ruthless if needed.

He isn’t qualified that’s the reality but you have to assume he’s been given the job based on some sort of process and I think ex players do get these kind of roles at clubs with little to no experience, such as Zidane at Madrid.

We all get hung up on individuals but it’s also evident that some clubs recruit well even when individuals who are supposedly key depart. Steve Walsh was credited with a lot of success at Leicester but look how that’s panned out, Dortmund have coped without Minsilat and sure plenty of other examples.

 

[HailtotheKing]

Just curious, how does Michael Edward's role differ from this? He's supposed to be in charge of overall football development, including player identification, acquisitions, sales and retention. So does he do Judge's role and Murtaugh's?

 

[Jackal]

Txiki himself had zero experience when he got the Barca job. BVB hired Zorc as DOF immediately he retired even though he had zero experience. Michael Edwards at Liverpool was hired from within. Also getting proven DOFs doesnt always come with success. Monchi was a catastrophic failure at Roma when everyone expected him to thrive there. Over the last years Paratici has been a disaster at Juve. Mislintat was a world class recruiter at BVB but failed miserably at Arsenal. Having the right structure is more important than a big name and thats what Utd are doing. Worst case scenario is if Murtough fails we can always hire another DOF as the role actually exists now but he has a CV thats at the very least worth gambling with it`s not a business man being thrown into a completely different role like with Woodward in 2013. Him being around the club for long means transition won`t be as drastic as hiring an outsider would be

This is a very wrong way to think.
He had zero experience when he got the Barca job but that was 2003. It took them another 3 years before they started winning consistently again, then there was another bump in the road until he insisted on hiring Pep Guardiola.

Now, the same guy he's at Man City(our City rivals) competing for every trophy with us. Hiring a rookie to stop them is not a wise decision - his rookie position in 2003 does not apply in 2021. To even have any chance of competing with them, hiring a DOF with a similar wealth of experience is a great start.

Worst case scenario, If Murtough fails, Wooward could also as well cancel the role completely and argue life was better without a DOF than with a DOF. He would say he was reluctant to even create the role in the first place and only gave in when the fans won't stop moaning about it. It's Ed Woodward we are talking about here, he's a slithery creature.

 

[RkkMan]

Darren Fletcher’s a great guy and was a great player for us. Does that qualify him for this role though? I mean, over people who have a proven track record in the intended role?

It’s the same as the manager of this club and I really hope it works out but it feels like Woodward’s placing a United DNA shaped shield between him and the fans. If anyone’s going to be critical they’ll just be shouted down by people claiming United DNA rather than any previous qualifications.

They’ll be as likely to consider Ole’s position as Ole is with regards to his coaching staff. Doesn’t seem to me like a cutthroat environment that’ll be looking at results at all cost and be ruthless if needed.

Chelsea hired Cech as Technical Director even though he had zero experience in any Executive Role
AC Milan hired Maldini as Technical Director even though he had zero experience in any Executive Role
Overmars was hired as Ajax DOF even though he had zero experience in any Executive Role
Michael Zorc immediately after retirement was hired as BVB`s DOF even though he had zero experience in any Executive Role
Let`s give Fletcher a chance first eey?

 

[Isotope]

*Frantically googles John Murtough*

*Underwhelming disappointment floods the body*

You shouldn't google Darren Fletcher and "management experience", then.

 

[Jackal]

So he was more like Murtough and Fletcher when Barcelona appointed him with no prior experience as Sporting Director who then hired Guardiola as manager who was novice without any top level experience because he was ex Barca player so according to your own logic he shouldn't have been given that job.

So your whole argument in favour of your stance actually proves quite the opposite.

But 2003 is not 2021.

We are now competing with Txiki in 2021 - If you put Man Utd in isolation, you may have a point. However, the rookie in 2021 is now in the Premier League competing with us in all fronts. How can a rookie DOF in 2021 beat him to any trophy? They have spent more money on players, they have a better structure already in place, they have the better manager and a more experienced DOF.......How do you expect us to compete with them with a rookie DOF and an inferior manager?

 

[JJ12]

We can debate over the qualities of the individuals, but from an organizational perspective the creation of these positions in the first place seems like an enormous step forward for the club...even if it obviously won't solve all our problems.

Yeah I agree with this

 

[Roboc7]

it sounds like Ole is the first manager who actually asked for input from the club on identifying transfers. It seems LVG and Jose had their own thing going on and it set us back blindly backing them. Jim lawlor has a cracking success rate going back to Fergie’s time but the line was the managers wanted to do their own thing regardless of scout advice. Who knows really! All I know is it’s starting to feel like the United of old again for me. I wouldn’t be surprised to see us go for Rice (a real Fergie type signing) and sign Pogba up again. That would be the best use of what we already have instead of ripping up the team. I’m really interested to see what we end up doing now.

I think he’s the first manager that’s had to accept more input, club tried with Jose and it caused meltdown, from then on it was part of the job description. That’s how it should be, we’ve got right kind of structure, now it’s a case of whether or not we’ve got right people. Summer window will be good indicator of whether there has any been any real shift or just business as usual.

 

[Isotope]

Not recruitment that's Murtough's role

Darren will work closely with John to add technical input and direction into all football and performance areas. He will focus on a co-ordinated and long-term approach to player and squad development, helping maintain the integral link between the Academy and the first team, aligned with Manchester United’s values and culture.

That sounds like manager / Ole's job, doesn't it?

 

[Ekeke]

Strange one on the face of it.