Manchester United proved in FA Cup final they don't understand fan culture

[Wumminator]

It's a question of perspective. It's certainly pragmatic and a decision that hammers home that United is really just another big club after being relatively insulated from the modern game by Fergie's 26 year reign. I'm by no means delighted with Mourinho and it will most likely end in tears after a few trophies have been won. But I don't see any real alternatives (a damning indictment on United's managerial planning).And, going back to perspective, in terms of the Plan B, I'd view Giggs' appointment as cronyism unworthy of United rather than something romantic.

To me Giggs' home game was really fun. Would love more of that.

 

[MoskvaRed]

To me Giggs' home game was really fun. Would love more of that.

But very different circumstances - a 4 game end of season caretaker role amid general relief that Moyes had gone. I don't think it would be quite so much fun on a permanent basis (or at least I don't think it's a risk worth taking).

 

[The Brown Bull]

The Palace fans ere clearly more organised and vociferous at the cup final but I don't regard that as an indictment of United's fans.Its widely accepted that United's travelling fans are the nosiest , most passionate fans in the league.The problem is that the normal away United fans were not present in any great number in Wembley while Palace who have much fewer fans than United were easily able to accommodate their 'hard core' from their allocation.
I'ld rather have the FA Cup back in Old Trafford than the best fans award.

 

[Tincanalley]

Such a bizarre overreaction to a perfectly valid article - the sort of reaction that reinforces the stereotype about Redcafe being the internet home of the gloryhunting, armchair element in our support.

Yep.

 

[Tincanalley]

Honestly that Guardian article is fantastic. Absolutely brilliant. I've been going to Old Trafford and singing songs about hating Mourinho every week for last ten or so years. My fondest memories include "Mourinho are you listening" and sending him packing.

On here there seems to be a culture of "I can't wait ". I don't get it at all.

Agreed 1000%

 

[Ban]

That 2nd article. So if you ask Mitten most of match going fans are opposed to Mourinho and would want Giggs and the rest of us, fans from abroad want Mourinho and care only about titles.

Did he make a survey to know that or is he speaking bollocks?

 

[Brwned]

That's fair enough, and it's hard to argue that the club 'gets' its support. I just wish that journalists would be as outspoken about things like (for example) Liverpool fans only getting 10% of all tickets for the EL Final.

I was at the EL final and it certainly wasn't 10%.

 

[Fener1907]

United don't understand fan culture? The way Old Trafford's rocking on a fortnightly basis, I just find this so hard to believe. While I don't disagree with the article, it's guilty of being the 'bloody obvious' variety. 'Home fans bad, away fans good' isn't exactly a revelation. Sounds like Wembley just ended up being an extension of OT.

 

[Rood]

I think the article is in the right direction. I can't back it up with a peer-reviewed analysis, but I believe that match-going fans on average are far less enamoured with the idea of Mourinho.

Definitely - and really it shows there is often quite a difference of opinion between the average matchgoer and armchair fans.
When you think about it that is not really that surprising since the priorities of each group are sometimes quite different.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Definitely - and really it shows there is often quite a difference of opinion between the average matchgoer and armchair fans.
When you think about it that is not really that surprising since the priorities of each group are sometimes quite different.

I don't think so, people in this thread are fishing with this.
There is no way of categorising the two groups as far as priorities and liking or disliking Mourinho is concerned.

What constitutes a match going fan? Does he have to attend every home game a season? Every away game? Or both?
If there's someone who goes to a dozen games a season are they classed as match going or armchair?

What about someone like me who 3/4 years ago would do almost every away game and half a dozen homes, but now (due to circumstances) does about 2 games a season. What category do I fall under?

I'm led to believe judging by comments on the cafe that 'match going fans' are more traditional and Manchester United winning at all costs isn't their priority. They favour traditions and things like the United way.

Supposedly Armchair fans want to win at any cost, they'll take a Mourinho, they're happy to see people like Giggs and Butt leave the club because they're "undermining".

The thing is, lots of people do not fit into those categories, match going or not.
Take me for example, I'm happy to take Mourinho but I want people like Giggs and Butt to stay at the club because I value club tradition.

There is no set method of thinking , everyone is different, has nothing to do with going to games or not going to games. People want to be self righteous about things but in reality there is absolutely no conclusive evidence that their claims and theories are correct.
It's so fecking boring reading this place and seeing people tell people how they should support Manchester United.
And when that doesn't work they start getting self righteous and try to put people in groups.

I used to use a coach service from London with a lad name Ralph (some on here might know him) who has been going to United games home and away for probably about 40 years. I've heard this guy talk about United and honestly half the time I couldn't believe the stuff that would come out of his mouth. He was overly dramatic and knee jerky and on here he'd probably be labelled a armchair glory hunter but as I said he's a guy who's done United home and away from London for 40 odd years.

Point is nobody fecking cares if you sang about hating Mourinho every week or if you sang at Blackburns away pub.
Nobody cares that you hate Giggs and the co92, nobody cares that you think your way of supporting United is best, do it how you want and just shut the feck up and let others do what they want.

Rant over.

Also this isn't a direct attack on you.

 

[Rood]

I don't think so, people in this thread are fishing with this.
There is no way of categorising the two groups as far as priorities and liking or disliking Mourinho is concerned.

What constitutes a match going fan? Does he have to attend every home game a season? Every away game? Or both?
If there's someone who goes to a dozen games a season are they classed as match going or armchair?

What about someone like me who 3/4 years ago would do almost every away game and half a dozen homes, but now (due to circumstances) does about 2 games a season. What category do I fall under?

I'm led to believe judging by comments on the cafe that 'match going fans' are more traditional and Manchester United winning at all costs isn't their priority. They favour traditions and things like the United way.

Supposedly Armchair fans want to win at any cost, they'll take a Mourinho, they're happy to see people like Giggs and Butt leave the club because they're "undermining".

The thing is, lots of people do not fit into those categories, match going or not.
Take me for example, I'm happy to take Mourinho but I want people like Giggs and Butt to stay at the club because I value club tradition.

There is no set method of thinking , everyone is different, has nothing to do with going to games or not going to games. People want to be self righteous about things but in reality there is absolutely no conclusive evidence that their claims and theories are correct.
It's so fecking boring reading this place and seeing people tell people how they should support Manchester United.
And when that doesn't work they start getting self righteous and try to put people in groups.

I used to use a coach service from London with a lad name Ralph (some on here might know him) who has been going to United games home and away for probably about 40 years. I've heard this guy talk about United and honestly half the time I couldn't believe the stuff that would come out of his mouth. He was overly dramatic and knee jerky and on here he'd probably be labelled a armchair glory hunter but as I said he's a guy who's done United home and away from London for 40 odd years.

Point is nobody fecking cares if you sang about hating Mourinho every week or if you sang at Blackburns away pub.
Nobody cares that you hate Giggs and the co92, nobody cares that you think your way of supporting United is best, do it how you want and just shut the feck up and let others do what they want.

Rant over.

Also this isn't a direct attack on you.

I specifically put the word 'average' in there as it is obviously just a generalisation - of course there are regular matchgoers who are exstatic at the Jose news and vice versa but thats besides the point.

Not that it really matters, but since you asked I would categorise both you and the dozen games a season bloke as a matchgoer - within that you will then get subgroups with their own priorities and perspectives as well. Whether it is long time ST holder from Manchester who attends every home game or the family from Dublin who manage 3 games a season or the lad from Mumbai who is saving for his first and probably only ever trip to Old Trafford - all are welcome to be part of the United family, but to me it is clear that differences do exist and I dont see the big issue with pointing that out.

Whether people want to acknowledge it or not, there are clearly different groups within our support and that's not to say that anyone is a 'better' or more worthy fan than anyone else. In fact I dont actually agree with the stereotypes that you have noted, but in my experience there is often a difference in perspectives and attitudes to certain issues which is related to whether you regularly go to games or not.

This thread shows the difference quite clearly (which is exactly why we have ended up on this subject), you get a load of comments from non-matchgoers slagging off the original article whereas virtually anyone who actually went to Wembley has agreed with the article wholeheartedly. Still everyone is entitled to their opinion and I have not made any comments about one way of support being better than another so not sure why you have turned it into that type of discussion.

 

[markorm]

I used to go to Palace before their Bounce-back-ability came about and the fans were shite. Mainly old dears shouting abuse at the players.

In fact, only four years or so ago they were selling their Championship tickets on Groupon for a tenner.

Give them their due, they've got a decent following now since they were rescued from insolvency - maybe the reality of losing their club galvanised them - you can't knock them now, but to compare their fervour against a tepid United crowd who have just witnessed their team deliver the most banal pile of shite they've ever seen in a season - most united fans were probably wondering how the feck we got to Wembley in the first place.

Shit article and a cheap kick in the bollocks.

It'll be different next year.

 

[Wumminator]

I used to go to Palace before their Bounce-back-ability came about and the fans were shite. Mainly old dears shouting abuse at the players.

In fact, only four years or so ago they were selling their Championship tickets on Groupon for a tenner.

Give them their due, they've got a decent following now since they were rescued from insolvency - maybe the reality of losing their club galvanised them - you can't knock them now, but to compare their fervour against a tepid United crowd who have just witnessed their team deliver the most banal pile of shite they've ever seen in a season - most united fans were probably wondering how the feck we got to Wembley in the first place.

Shit article and a cheap kick in the bollocks.

It'll be different next year.

I don't know if it will . The best the atmosphere has been in recent memory was Moyes' year

 

[Ludens the Red]

I specifically put the word 'average' in there as it is obviously just a generalisation - of course there are regular matchgoers who are exstatic at the Jose news and vice versa but thats besides the point.

Not that it really matters, but since you asked I would categorise both you and the dozen games a season bloke as a matchgoer - within that you will then get subgroups with their own priorities and perspectives as well. Whether it is long time ST holder from Manchester who attends every home game or the family from Dublin who manage 3 games a season or the lad from Mumbai who is saving for his first and probably only ever trip to Old Trafford - all are welcome to be part of the United family, but to me it is clear that differences do exist and I dont see the big issue with pointing that out.

Whether people want to acknowledge it or not, there are clearly different groups within our support and that's not to say that anyone is a 'better' or more worthy fan than anyone else. In fact I dont actually agree with the stereotypes that you have noted, but in my experience there is often a difference in perspectives and attitudes to certain issues which is related to whether you regularly go to games or not.

This thread shows the difference quite clearly (which is exactly why we have ended up on this subject), you get a load of comments from non-matchgoers slagging off the original article whereas virtually anyone who actually went to Wembley has agreed with the article wholeheartedly. Still everyone is entitled to their opinion and I have not made any comments about one way of support being better than another so not sure why you have turned it into that type of discussion.

No, because again, you cannot conclusively make two separate sides, it's not black and white, this season is the first time I've not seen United at Wembley since it opened in 2007. I know exactly what the atmosphere is like when we go to Wembley. I think the article is fishing.
Part of the reason the atmosphere wasn't great on Saturday can also be attributed to the number of likely day trippers present, would they then agree with the article wholeheartedly? You just can't put anyone into a group, it's impossible.
There are definitely different groups within our support but in relation to game going/supporting Mourinho/supporting tradition, we're looking at a large scale mix in opinion that cannot be attributed to one type of fan.
The article seems to try and target United but it fails to take into account that is how it is for most other clubs, except Palace. Mitten has tried to point fingers at United for an issue that lingers at most clubs in the country.

You may not have turned it into a "being better" kind of discussion but it's well known on here that game goers regularly throw around their opinion as mattering more because they go to games. Twigg being the prime example.

 

[VeevaVee]

United don't understand fan culture? The way Old Trafford's rocking on a fortnightly basis, I just find this so hard to believe. While I don't disagree with the article, it's guilty of being the 'bloody obvious' variety. 'Home fans bad, away fans good' isn't exactly a revelation. Sounds like Wembley just ended up being an extension of OT.

It's rarely rocking to be honest. More of a loud collective mumble.

 

[Steven Seagull]

It only really looked worse because it was Palace and their group of fans. Every other team is the same as us at Wembley, the stadium can be loud but its usually an inaudible noise.

Personally I think the orchestrated singing is good for about 5 minutes but then it just becomes boring and unnatural. There's no natural peak to it or anything.

 

[SkeppyRed]

Its not about whether it looks or sounds good. Vocal encouragement can lift a players performance. You don't need flags, scarves, drums or any other shite to sing or roar on the team.

 

[SteveJ]

Gotta be honest, the background to me moaning about this article was the recent & gratuitous 'classless United sack LVG after Cup win' pieces that jumped the gun in the rush for clicks.

 

[Dans]

Fans? Culture? Misunderstood? I don't think so - rather they don't want to understand it as it is and would prefer that it headed in another direction. Wall of White?

 

[Rood]

No, because again, you cannot conclusively make two separate sides, it's not black and white, this season is the first time I've not seen United at Wembley since it opened in 2007. I know exactly what the atmosphere is like when we go to Wembley. I think the article is fishing.
Part of the reason the atmosphere wasn't great on Saturday can also be attributed to the number of likely day trippers present, would they then agree with the article wholeheartedly? You just can't put anyone into a group, it's impossible.
There are definitely different groups within our support but in relation to game going/supporting Mourinho/supporting tradition, we're looking at a large scale mix in opinion that cannot be attributed to one type of fan.
The article seems to try and target United but it fails to take into account that is how it is for most other clubs, except Palace. Mitten has tried to point fingers at United for an issue that lingers at most clubs in the country.

You may not have turned it into a "being better" kind of discussion but it's well known on here that game goers regularly throw around their opinion as mattering more because they go to games. Twigg being the prime example.

You keep ignoring the fact that Im generalising and talking about the AVERAGE matchgoer vs the AVERAGE armchair fan - of course it isnt black and white, I already said that myself.

Dont understand your comment about daytrippers either because everyone at Wembley is a daytripper! But just go through this thread and you see a clear difference in attitude toward the article between those who were at Wembley and those who werent.

Im sure if you asked Mitten he would agree that most of the issues he mentions can be applied to many clubs, it is not just a United issue but he's a United fan and regular matchgoer so its only normal that he writes about it from his own personal experiences and as far as I am concerned he is bang on.

 

[Ludens the Red]

You keep ignoring the fact that Im generalising and talking about the AVERAGE matchgoer vs the AVERAGE armchair fan - of course it isnt black and white, I already said that myself.

What I'm saying is there is no average, I can think of about 10 United fans I know, match going and not, none of them fit into this 'average' that you speak of.

Dont understand your comment about daytrippers either because everyone at Wembley is a daytripper! But just go through this thread and you see a clear difference in attitude toward the article between those who were at Wembley and those who werent.
Im sure if you asked Mitten he would agree that most of the issues he mentions can be applied to many clubs, it is not just a United issue but he's a United fan and regular matchgoer so its only normal that he writes about it from his own personal experiences and as far as I am concerned he is bang on

You seem to be under this weird impression that you must have gone on Saturday to figure out that United fans are sometimes quiet in large groups, even though this would have been clear to anyone who attended any one of the 14 matches United have played at the new Wembley.

You also seem to think people are disagreeing with the article(myself included) we are not. The core argument of the article is correct in that yes United fans at Wembley on Saturday were quieter than Palace fans, again though this is something that anyone with a brain who either watched or attended the match could have easily told you.

What me and a few others have taken exception to is the whole fact that Mitten feels this is a newsworthy article, he also tries to make it out as if it's some sort of deep rooted problem at United when really it's just how modern football fans in the Premier League are.
I get that he is a United fan but why didn't he make this article after the Everton game? (or basically any other Wembley game United had where their opponents weren't Crystal Palace) where the Everton fans like United, didn't bring any fancy banners or have ultra specific seating.

The timing of the article tells me he's done it for all the wrong reasons and is trying to appeal to the type of fan who looks down on the non regular match goer (like yourself(see this comment for proof)

well why the hell would you go if you wanted that? Its only armchair nobheads who think like that

and Twigg) who have both unanimously agreed with the article.
There seems to be a suggestion that a lot of United tickets were taken by non regulars but perhaps it's the regular match goers who should take blame for that and thus the atmosphere. It's the regular match goers who were happy to sell their tickets for 4/5 times the price to non regulars. Maybe if they weren't such greedy cnuts they'd have attended the game and created a better atmosphere.

Then bizarrely a few have tried to use this article as some sort of mouthpiece to summarise that game goers=dislike Mourinho, non game-goers=like Mourinho, which I can only describe as fishing.

 

[Fener1907]

It's rarely rocking to be honest. More of a loud collective mumble.

I was being sarcastic. Old Trafford rocking? Itself to sleep, perhaps.

It was always shite when it wasn't a rival or big Champions League opponent visiting.

 

[VeevaVee]

I was being sarcastic. Old Trafford rocking? Itself to sleep, perhaps.

It was always shite when it wasn't a rival or big Champions League opponent visiting.

Ah, I thought the rest of the post didn't really follow.

 

[Rood]

What I'm saying is there is no average, I can think of about 10 United fans I know, match going and not, none of them fit into this 'average' that you speak of.

Ye well thats because they are not the 'average'!

You seem to be under this weird impression that you must have gone on Saturday to figure out that United fans are sometimes quiet in large groups, even though this would have been clear to anyone who attended any one of the 14 matches United have played at the new Wembley.

You also seem to think people are disagreeing with the article(myself included) we are not. The core argument of the article is correct in that yes United fans at Wembley on Saturday were quieter than Palace fans, again though this is something that anyone with a brain who either watched or attended the match could have easily told you.

I dont think any of that so dont put words in my mouth. The point is very simple - read the post in this thread and you will see a marked difference in reaction to Mitten's article between people who went to Wembley and those who didnt. This is not my opinion, it is a fact - just read the thread.

What me and a few others have taken exception to is the whole fact that Mitten feels this is a newsworthy article, he also tries to make it out as if it's some sort of deep rooted problem at United when really it's just how modern football fans in the Premier League are.
I get that he is a United fan but why didn't he make this article after the Everton game? (or basically any other Wembley game United had where their opponents weren't Crystal Palace) where the Everton fans like United, didn't bring any fancy banners or have ultra specific seating.

He didnt write about Everton because there was feck all of interest to say about it. Why on earth would any journalist write about the atmosphere at a semi final or a game from years ago when there is a current cup final to write about?

The timing of the article tells me he's done it for all the wrong reasons and is trying to appeal to the type of fan who looks down on the non regular match goer (like yourself(see this comment for proof) and Twigg) who have both unanimously agreed with the article.

Im not sure why you are still bleating about people looking down on non-matchgoers - the article has absolutely nothing to do with that whatsoever and that comment of mine is taken out of context. The point of discussion there was about moronic 'fans' who wanted United to lose the cup final as they thought it would speed up LvG's sacking.

There seems to be a suggestion that a lot of United tickets were taken by non regulars but perhaps it's the regular match goers who should take blame for that and thus the atmosphere. It's the regular match goers who were happy to sell their tickets for 4/5 times the price to non regulars. Maybe if they weren't such greedy cnuts they'd have attended the game and created a better atmosphere.

Anyone who sold for a profit is indeed a greedy cnut and should have their ST revoked - at least we can agree on that!

Then bizarrely a few have tried to use this article as some sort of mouthpiece to summarise that game goers=dislike Mourinho, non game-goers=like Mourinho, which I can only describe as fishing.

Well obviously it is not that simple but I definitely see some truth to it - for example this forum is strongly in favour of Jose (65% chose him in the poll for next manager) and the most on here are not regular matchgoers, whereas I go on another forum where most are regulars and he was only getting around 35/40% of the vote.

 

[markorm]

I'm not sure which club can say that their ground is a buzz of raucous din every game. We have 70 odd thousand fans each fortnight at OT, many of those are daytrippers or once in a lifetime visiting fans, but the buzz is still ok.

Many grounds are quiet much of the time, and the away/home argument is applicable to all clubs.

As for Wembley, I truly believe this was the exception rather than the rule. The atmosphere was OK for the Semi final wasn't it?

In isolation, facing those Palace 'Ultra' loons, we probably were meek, but I don't think any other 'top 4' club would be any different.

 

[Mozza]

The game was a bigger deal for Palace then United fans, hence they made more noise

 

[ManUchosenbosslvg]

Don't know if anyone saw this last night but that's Juanfran asking for forgiveness from the Atleti fans, they all stood and applauded him, great seeing fan support like that, even after the heartbreak of losing 2 finals to their rival in 3 years.

I can only imagine what abuse Rooney, Fellaini, Valencia would have got from our fans in similar circumstances. There just seems to be such a disconnect between the club and our fans these days that any excuse to take out our frustrations will be taken.

 

[K2K]

Don't know if anyone saw this last night but that's Juanfran asking for forgiveness from the Atleti fans, they all stood and applauded him, great seeing fan support like that, even after the heartbreak of losing 2 finals to their rival in 3 years.

I can only imagine what abuse Rooney, Fellaini, Valencia would have got from our fans in similar circumstances. There just seems to be such a disconnect between the club and our fans these days that any excuse to take out our frustrations will be taken.

I have yet to see any set of fans abuse a player after missing a crucial penalty in a shootout.

 

[shaky]

Don't know if anyone saw this last night but that's Juanfran asking for forgiveness from the Atleti fans, they all stood and applauded him, great seeing fan support like that, even after the heartbreak of losing 2 finals to their rival in 3 years.

I can only imagine what abuse Rooney, Fellaini, Valencia would have got from our fans in similar circumstances. There just seems to be such a disconnect between the club and our fans these days that any excuse to take out our frustrations will be taken.

You really think our fans would stand at a Champions League final in those circumstances and shout abuse at whoever missed our crucial penalty? If there's any disconnect going on, it's between your opinion of our fans and reality.

 

[ManUchosenbosslvg]

You really think our fans would stand at a Champions League final in those circumstances and shout abuse at whoever missed our crucial penalty? If there's any disconnect going on, it's between your opinion of our fans and reality.

Maybe you should go to a few more of our games and you might see the difference between Atletico's passionate support and some of our "support". Seems an awful lot of the people around me are there to moan about players, the manager, the officials and only show any passion when screaming for a handball around the opposition box or giving out about a mistake by one of our players.

Thought Juanfran had a very good game and respect to him and the Atleti fans for their gestures, I know plenty of our fans who wouldn't have stuck around watching City celebrate just to give support to their player in his lowest moment. Mourinho needs to try rebuild some form of loyalty and passion between our fans and players like Simeone has done so well.

 

[Mozza]

Maybe you should go to a few more of our games and you might see the difference between Atletico's passionate support and some of our "support". Seems an awful lot of the people around me are there to moan about players, the manager, the officials and only show any passion when screaming for a handball around the opposition box or giving out about a mistake by one of our players.

Thought Juanfran had a very good game and respect to him and the Atleti fans for their gestures, I know plenty of our fans who wouldn't have stuck around watching City celebrate just to give support to their player in his lowest moment. Mourinho needs to try rebuild some form of loyalty and passion between our fans and players like Simeone has done so well.

Athleticos fans are in dream land as they don't expect to hit these hights, moaning would be crass. United fans moan as being the size we are and the money ee do our team should be doing better. Having said that our fans would have applauded a player who missed a penalty in the champions league final just as Ahleticos did yesterday

 

[VanCurny20]

I back Jose, the way a lot of us have felt about him in the past, is the same way other clubs have felt about us in the past.

He has a huge ego and we used to, like it or not we need him.

 

[ti vu]

Maybe you should go to a few more of our games and you might see the difference between Atletico's passionate support and some of our "support". Seems an awful lot of the people around me are there to moan about players, the manager, the officials and only show any passion when screaming for a handball around the opposition box or giving out about a mistake by one of our players.

Thought Juanfran had a very good game and respect to him and the Atleti fans for their gestures, I know plenty of our fans who wouldn't have stuck around watching City celebrate just to give support to their player in his lowest moment. Mourinho needs to try rebuild some form of loyalty and passion between our fans and players like Simeone has done so well.

Different circumstances altogether. Firstly, CL final is more important and unique than regular every season league derby. Atletico was great and a mistake in penalty was easy forgivable. Not the same as rubbish display on weekly basis. So to get to CL final, you need quite some good display to qualify and get picked to be involved in the game. You can made a mistake in the final and be forgiven. It's hard to believe you can regular be rubbish and get to CL final, let alone be the same rubbish also in the final and get forgiven. People don't bash Rooney or Valencia on basis of the second half of 10-11 the season nor in Valencia case being owned by Abidal, but the regular bad display as winger ever since. Big difference.

Also CL final is special, best fan of the club would try to get there for the memorable occasion. In contrast, in weekly matches, it's just another match on a different week. There are only that few games against rivals and key games in a season, so understandably there are more tourists weekly matches. The tourists are easier to be discouraged by a bad day at office, react and leave. For CL final and true fans, they understand the occasion. Even being defeated side, they appreciated the team effort the whole year to reach the final. In Atletico case, they beat the strongest teams in the competition, only lost in penalty shoot out after the tie with Real in a good game. They are disappointed, heartbroken but no way shameful.

You were just trying to follow the media belief about our bad support. Our club has a lot of attention. Not many self proclaimed fans are true fans. What if you only know the bad fans and the media also use the same bad fan group to fit their agenda.

 

[manux399]

Surley it can't be that hard to get, even if you don't agree. Most people would say that Mourinho is United's best chance of getting back to winning ways now - why on earth would supporters not be yearning for that?

Probably because United fans like to win with flair, excitement and passion not by parking a bus..!!