Manchester United Sign Anthony Martial!

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They offer you a service in return for that money, it may have been your money at one time but as soon as you exchange it for something then it is no longer your money.
True, but it's not quite as simple - you offer that money, up front, for a full years worth of service... and you expect the club to use it wisely so they can offer you the best service possible for that whole year.

It's always been the way with football - when you give your money to the club you still feel like its your money, and you expect them to use it wisely. Why do you think fans of clubs - who pay loads to go see their club and then the club in return don't put in any investment into the team - get so miffed?
 

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That wasn't my argument, that has never been my argument. My argument has always been "it is probably better to have one recognized striker and one backup striker before splashing serious cash on young players". If Rooney gets injured we'll be down to fielding Wilson and or Martial (before we get to silly options like Fellaini etc).

I didn't mean a star striker signing, I meant at least a legitimate backup player in between the young players being thrown to the dogs. Considering the majority of the caf can't even handle Rooney up front and think he's shite.. It makes it even more odd.
And how do you know Martial or Wilson won't step up and perform?
 

Getsme

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True, but it's not quite as simple - you offer that money, up front, for a full years worth of service... and you expect the club to use it wisely so they can offer you the best service possible for that whole year.

It's always been the way with football - when you give your money to the club you still feel like its your money, and you expect them to use it wisely. Why do you think fans of clubs - who pay loads to go see their club and then the club in return don't put in any investment into the team - get so miffed?
True, but that doesn't give you any rights in how they use that money, by using it wisely they will get repeat custom, but it's impossible to please everybody so for me it's important that the club does the right thing not the popular thing.
 

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True, but it's not quite as simple - you offer that money, up front, for a full years worth of service... and you expect the club to use it wisely so they can offer you the best service possible for that whole year.

It's always been the way with football - when you give your money to the club you still feel like its your money, and you expect them to use it wisely. Why do you think fans of clubs - who pay loads to go see their club and then the club in return don't put in any investment into the team - get so miffed?
Like any investment, they go up and down. Think in the last 20 odd years, we've done ok. If people don't like how their money's being used, I'm sure Chelsea or City will take it off them.....
 

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And how do you know Martial or Wilson won't step up and perform?
Logic, they've barely played a full season and a half of games between them. So yeah, good luck with that line of thinking. It is absolutely blind hope that they can perform when needed, rather than sensible business contingency planning?
 

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Like any investment, they go up and down. Think in the last 20 odd years, we've done ok. If people don't like how their money's being used, I'm sure Chelsea or City will take it off them.....
Thats unfair - you can't tell a Blackpool supporter to just go support Liverpool can you?

United have done more then okay in the last 20 odd years, they've done very well... especially considering it could have gone a very different way under the Glaziers.
 

Litch

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Logic, they've barely played a full season and a half of games between them. So yeah, good luck with that line of thinking. It is absolutely blind hope that they can perform when needed, rather than sensible business contingency planning?
Not called the 'Theatre of dreams' for nothing. Young players are the foundation of utds history.
 

Getsme

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Logic, they've barely played a full season and a half of games between them. So yeah, good luck with that line of thinking. It is absolutely blind hope that they can perform when needed, rather than sensible business contingency planning?
It's not blind hope, we have a team of very experienced coaches working at United. Do you think we are a Sunday league club or something?
P.S. I give you Beckham, Scholes, Giggs, Neville, Butt so and so on.
 

JPRouve

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Didn't Martial just win his first cap for France about three day ago? :lol:. He is barely a starter. The team that beat Arsenal, Martial was not one of the shining light and Bellerin had him in his pocket throughout the game. Carrisco, Kondogbia, their entire defense and maybe even Berbatov had better performances that day. Sterling point has already been stated, so go back and look at the previous discussion I had.
Ferreira Carrasco was a substitute he replaced Dirar at the end of the game and Martial was the best attacker for Monaco.
 

Litch

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Thats unfair - you can't tell a Blackpool supporter to just go support Liverpool can you?

United have done more then okay in the last 20 odd years, they've done very well... especially considering it could have gone a very different way under the Glaziers.
It's football and about investing wisely. We've set the template for how to make a football club commercially viable that others have followed. Have you not seen the figures for the Addidas deal, and that was made at a time where our worth is less based on our success on the football pitch. You're worried about where your grands going???
 

Litch

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It's not blind hope, we have a team of very experienced coaches working at United. Do you think we are a Sunday league club or something?
P.S. I give you Beckham, Scholes, Giggs, Neville, Butt so and so on.
Yep, we just went out and wrote them a blank cheque. Scouting, nah LVG sat at home watching YouTube videos....
 

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It's football and about investing wisely. We've set the template for how to make a football club commercially viable that others have followed. Have you not seen the figures for the Addidas deal, and that was made at a time where our worth is less based on our success on the football pitch. You're worried about where your grands going???
Nope, nor have I said I have at any point in the conversation with @Getsme ... we're having two compeltely different arguments here.

Literally, the only point I made was that football fans - in general - feel that it is quote/unquote, in part, "their money" when they give it to a football club.
 

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It's not blind hope, we have a team of very experienced coaches working at United. Do you think we are a Sunday league club or something?
P.S. I give you Beckham, Scholes, Giggs, Neville, Butt so and so on.
The class of 92 are domestic products, like the Rooney signing it is completely different. They had been grown and played at youth level in England, look I don't really care if people support him, I am happy to get behind him and want him to do well but to just ignore that we probably should have had at least one other experienced player up front in between Rooney and the youngsters is just ludicrous. You're creating a counter argument out of stubbornness to accept that this is one injury away from possibly going pear shaped. He's not kicked a ball for us, yes. But I am not arguing that he is poor as a result, you can't just magically argue that he could be amazing and use that in a discussion about logical business sense and player quantity management.

That is ridiculous, really.
 

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Signing Martial is like getting a top of the line TV for every single cent you have, then sitting and having tea on the floor of your living room but telling everyone about how great your TV is while you're watching it.
Haha, that's not like it at all!

I'd find it harder to disagree if you'd said signing Martial was like getting a top of the range TV and then connecting it to a prehistoric analogue signal with a nice set of £10 PC speakers.
 

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Haha, that's not like it at all!

I'd find it harder to disagree if you'd said signing Martial was like getting a top of the range TV and then connecting it to a prehistoric analogue signal with a nice set of £10 PC speakers.
Logitech Z213's?? :) The metaphor was clumsy, admittedly. It was about the couch and the coffee table. Something to cushion yourself while you enjoy the new TV.
 

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Signing Martial is like getting a top of the line TV for every single cent you have, then sitting and having tea on the floor of your living room but telling everyone about how great your TV is while you're watching it.
Are you saying that we don't have a team around Martial, because that seems incorrect.
 

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Thought this was interesting from Stretford End Arising.

We posed several questions to Monaco fans at asmfoot.fr to gain insight into United’s new signing Anthony Martial.

Streford End Arising: Does Martial have the potential to become one of the best players in the world?

Michaël: He is all about potential. He is one of the most promising player in the world at this age, known by a lot of scouts for a number of years. I think he can do great things, especially in the Premier League. He is young, can improve and seems to have a good environment around him.

Naroud_Monaco: He has a potential, of course. In the 5 Best European Leagues, last year, he was the better striker for his age, with the best stats, etc. They are not amazing, 9 goals, but he is very young. You don’t have a lot of 19-years-old players who can be the best offensive element of a team as Monaco. He is one of the most promising French players… He is young but he has some experience, especially with the national youth teams (~ 50 matches / 25 goals). But, it’s difficult to say now if he could become one of the best players in the world, you know… His potential is interesting. Enough to be follow by a lot of scouts (Juventus, etc).

Shaba26: He is young, has big potential and could become one of the best. But he has to work a lot, the Premier League is a good championship for him, in which he can improve his level. In my opinion, and with what I know and seen of him, he is just a very promising player and can become a great player but not one of the best.

SEA: What has been his stand out performance for Monaco?

kjb972: He did not score in the matches against Arsenal and Juventus in Champions League, but I really liked his performances.

SamSam: That’s the problem. He just has a few major moments during a game.

Shannou06: None really, he’s always inconsistent.

Michaël: He finished last season greatly. He scored a lot of goals during the 10-15 games of the season and showed a lot of progress.

SEA: Is the comparison to Thierry Henry an accurate one?

Shannou06: No. Mainly because he’s black, French and comes from Monaco, that’s all I can find.

Michaël: Yes and no. Like said before, the comparison is easy because of his origins and because he’s from Monaco. Nevertheless, there are not a lot of forwards with such speed, power and technique. Henry and Martial have similar qualities, but the two also have a lot differences. Nevertheless, I can remember Martial’s first games at Monaco, and I thought immediately about Henry and when he started with Monaco in the 90’s when he was 17. At the same age, Henry was not a striker, and we couldn’t guess he’ll become such a great one. Martial can improve in front of the goalkeeper, so who knows.

Naroud_Monaco: Hmm… No. I don’t think so. The comparison is because of its origins (he grew up in the same city, etc.), his position and because he played in Monaco… It’s true, Henry was not a striker when he played in Monaco, so maybe Martial can improve his finishing for example, etc. He is young. And, he have speed, power and technique, etc.

I would say that Martial has more qualities to the Lyon school (more like a Benzema style or Lacazette, etc). They don’t have heading skills and a real spirit of striker (vista, etc)… But, they are very talented with their feet, with the ball. But, that can be productive… For example, in Lyon, the schema Lacazette/Fekir was amazing last year when they combine together, etc. I think Martial can be great with Rooney, for example. They can combine together with their techniques.

Henry was amazing and really complete. He had better heading abilities, finishing, etc. He was more of a real striker. Martial is better when he can combine with another guy in a axial position, I think. Or, when he has space in the left side…

SEA: Is he better on the left, right or through the middle?

Naroud_Monaco: As I said, he is not a decisive striker for the moment. He needs space. He is young. I prefer see him in the left side. On the right side, he was very bad. On the left side, he can use his right foot to attack the goal with his speed and skills. In a forward position, I prefer him with another player to combine with the ball. But, in a solo striker position, he is not amazing for the moment… But, left side or forward position but not in the right side.

Dark-ASM: His preferred position is through the middle, but he is very good at the left of the attack. For the French U19 team, he played on the left.

david86: He is better as second striker with a lot of freedom.

Nate: It depends. At Monaco he was probably better as a left winger because he’s not good enough to be the only striker on the field. With Van Persie or Falcao beside him, he would have been great. With Rooney, not sure.

SEA: What are his current strengths and weaknesses?

Michaël: He is very fast, powerful, and very comfortable with the ball. But he needs greater consistency, even during a game. He can also improve his heading ability (he’s already much better than last year) and in front of the goal keeper.

galuchon: He’s very fast, technical and an impact player. A lot of things look easy with him, he is very difficult to stop once he starts running with the ball. But he’s not efficient enough yet, he still misses a lot, he needs to play more simple at times and more with the team…

Shaba26:

Strengths: He’s fast with the ball, dribbling, good running speed (acceleration) and technical skills (to eliminate an opponent in little space).

Weaknesses : Decision making (shoot too late, does not pass the ball at the right moments to his team mates etc).

SEA: What type of personality does he have?

Naroud_Monaco: Very discreet. There are many temptations in a place like Monaco… But he seems to be a serious young man.

Nate: He seems introverted, shy, however mature as he already has a child and a wife.

galuchon: He’s very quiet and also well educated, no scandal, follows the club and staff wishes. Looks like a family guy. He already got a kid even though he is young.

kjb972: He seems to be lazy, nonchalant and really nice almost innocent, like a teenager.

SEA: Are you disappointed to see him leave?

Naroud_Monaco: Yes we are because we didn’t have the time to really replace him. That was not planned. But, with 60-80M€, how could we be disappointed…?

kjb972: A little bit but Kurzawa was transferred for €30M and if Martial had left for €30M I would still be more disappointed to lose him than Martial.

Dark-ASM: Yes I am, but for the price of 50M€ +/- 30M€, it is a very good deal for us. But not for you!

SEA: Is there a possibility he could become a big money flop?

kjb972: I think so because he only is 19, and has never been consistently good during a whole season and I am afraid that Van Gaal could break his career. But despite all that I think that he is the French offensive player with the greatest potential. A lot more than Giroud, Griezmann, Benzema, Lacazette and Fekir. But I don’t think he is ready to be Manchester United’s striker.

Nate: Refer to first question. With a 50M€ +/- 30M€ transfer fee, he has to become one of the best players in the world. If he does not, he will obviously be a “big money flop”.

galuchon: Yes, because the fee is too big. So there’s a risk he cannot take the pressure of the Premier League and be part of a big club like Manchester United, especially with Van Gaal as a coach. Even in Monaco which is very quiet he took a long time to adapt, focus and be efficient. I am surprised you agreed to pay such a price for a guy who has everything to prove, even in Ligue 1 because he has never completed a full season yet.

http://www.stretfordendarising.com/2015/09/06/qa-with-monaco-fans-on-anthony-martial/?
 

JoaquinJoaquin

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Signing Martial is like getting a top of the line TV for every single cent you have, then sitting and having tea on the floor of your living room but telling everyone about how great your TV is while you're watching it.
And that summarisation is like putting your head down a toilet full of crap and keeping it there for a few hours.
 

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That wasn't my argument, that has never been my argument. My argument has always been "it is probably better to have one recognized striker and one backup striker before splashing serious cash on young players". If Rooney gets injured we'll be down to fielding Wilson and or Martial (before we get to silly options like Fellaini etc).

I didn't mean a star striker signing, I meant at least a legitimate backup player in between the young players being thrown to the dogs. Considering the majority of the caf can't even handle Rooney up front and think he's shite.. It makes it even more odd.
Yeah I was going by your analogy that we've bought a massive TV but don't have the sofa, coffee table, etc etc. What we actually have is a full set of furniture, but a slightly worn out TV with a dodgy signal that might break at any moment, and a brand new one that is bleeding-edge tech that we might not be able to set up properly. :p
 

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Yeah I was going by your analogy that we've bought a massive TV but don't have the sofa, coffee table, etc etc. What we actually have is a full set of furniture, but a slightly worn out TV with a dodgy signal that might break at any moment, and a brand new one that is bleeding-edge tech that we might not be able to set up properly. :p
The rest of the squad is the house... The nicest room in the house is the goal scoring room den.... Rooney is the STB, Martial is the new TV, Wilson is the sidetable and magazines... A sofa would be another recognized striker. :)
 

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The rest of the squad is the house... The nicest room in the house is the goal scoring room den.... Rooney is the STB, Martial is the new TV, Wilson is the sidetable and magazines... A sofa would be another recognized striker. :)
Nice :lol:
 

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Logic, they've barely played a full season and a half of games between them. So yeah, good luck with that line of thinking. It is absolutely blind hope that they can perform when needed, rather than sensible business contingency planning?
Harry Kane barely had a full season before last year! That's an absolutely stupid point to make!
 

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He is a striker, Rooney is a striker. If you buy another striker the purchase of Martial makes even less sense.
Keeping RVP around another year would have been the sensible thing to do. Quality cover and no pressure on a young lad to step up and be a star if Rooney gets a long lay off.
 

JPRouve

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Keeping RVP around another year would have been the sensible thing to do. Quality cover and no pressure on a young lad to step up and be a star if Rooney gets a long lay off.
In the last ten years, France, Italy, Germany and Spain showed me one thing, if a young player is good enough, play him. If we wanted to protect him we should have let him at Monaco.
 

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Ferreira Carrasco was a substitute he replaced Dirar at the end of the game and Martial was the best attacker for Monaco.
I know stats does not tell the whole story, but if you look at his stat in that game(particularly the second leg), it was pretty damning. He was their worst player in the second leg, whereas in the first leg he did much better, but he was not one of their best attacker. Even Carrasco as a substitute was as productive as Martial when he came on.

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/904253/Live/Europe-UEFA-Champions-League-2014-2015-Monaco-Arsenal

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/904252/Live/Europe-UEFA-Champions-League-2014-2015-Arsenal-Monaco
 

JPRouve

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I know stats does not tell the whole story, but if you look at his stat in that game(particularly the second leg), it was pretty damning. He was their worst player in the second leg, whereas in the first leg he did much better, but he was not one of their best attacker. Even Carrasco as a substitute was as productive as Martial when he came on.

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/904253/Live/Europe-UEFA-Champions-League-2014-2015-Monaco-Arsenal

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/904252/Live/Europe-UEFA-Champions-League-2014-2015-Arsenal-Monaco
I watch the games and he was. In the second game Arsenal totally dominated.
 

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I watch the games and he was. In the second game Arsenal totally dominated.
I watched the game aswell and this seems like an unpopular opinion because even an Arsenal fan on here who watched the game says what I am echoing.

Dislike the sentiment that Martial played well against us by people who obviously didn't watch either game with logic amounting to:

Monaco won; therefore he must have done well.
He really didn't mate. I was watching him closely because I was aware of his hype and the fact he came from Les Ulis (the club that produced Sanogo and Henry) so figured there's a chance we'd buy him. I was disappointed with him that night and truly didn't want us to invest in him after. He got the assist yes, but that was because of our defensive naivety (only one defender behind the half way line). It was a simple pass across to Berbatov after dribbling without any challenge. Truthfully, he was back pocketed by Bellerin on both legs.

That said, I have seen him a few times for Monaco in the Ligue 1 since. He's showed qualities for his age but he's not the finished article yet. I just don't understand why you loaned Januzaj out and brought in this guy who, for me, is further behind in his development for a huge fee.
[/QUOTE]
 

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I watched the game aswell and this seems like an unpopular opinion because even an Arsenal fan on here who watched the game says what I am echoing.



It's not unpopular, he was very good in the first game like your link shows and Monaco were totally dominated in the second game.
 

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In the last ten years, France, Italy, Germany and Spain showed me one thing, if a young player is good enough, play him. If we wanted to protect him we should have let him at Monaco.
Fine. Then leave RVP on the bench. The two aren't mutually exclusive - you can have a young player and give him plenty of chances, while still having adequate cover.

This position now could go one of two ways if anything happens to Rooney - either he's thrust into the limelight and shines, or its far too much too soon and the massive amount of pressure and scrutiny he's evidently going to be under cripples him and stops him doing what he might.

I personally think it would have been wise to have cover to be able to take him out of the firing line if needed.
 

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Fine. Then leave RVP on the bench. The two aren't mutually exclusive - you can have a young player and give him plenty of chances, while still having adequate cover.

This position now could go one of two ways if anything happens to Rooney - either he's thrust into the limelight and shines, or its far too much too soon and the massive amount of pressure and scrutiny he's evidently going to be under cripples him and stops him doing what he might.

I personally think it would have been wise to have cover to be able to take him out of the firing line if needed.
I think that we sold Van Persie because he was on a big wage and he wasn't going to play much. Regarding Martial having RVP behind him could have been a source of stress and doubt, it also could have been a model and a good support. So I'm not categorical, I see good and bad things in a larger team.
 
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