Clearly incorrect.
Manchester United Sign Anthony Martial!
- Thread starter RonaldoVII
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Do you think we overpaid? If yes, give your reasons. If no, do the same.
I feel like you stated, the initial fee is too high and that is for a player who has not accomplished anything. If he accomplished two out of the three by the time his contract run out, then that will take him to £51m, which could be more acceptable as he manages to get 25 goals in a season. Dependent on the consistency factor and whether he does activate any of the last two clause, I feel that we still put to much expectation on a teenager who now has a conventional goals that he has to meet or else he will be seen as a bad acquisition. I prefer the more ethical approach of having teenagers play with enthusiasm and joy, while the experience players hold most of the burden.
Your first point is in regard to the expectation that he has to reach such a conventional goal or else, he will be seen as a failure based of price we paid. I do not see how it is a win win for United as putting so much burden on a youngster could fail miserably for United and he could be a expensive mistake if he only gets 0 or 1 of the 3 needed goals.
Your second points has been echoed almost everywhere that, we should not have waited till the end of the transfer window to do such a business with Martial.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/gary-neville-calls-transfer-window-6359654
I am unsure about whether the interest with other clubs were genuine or it was a case of lack of preparation by United that made us pay such a high initial fee for a player who has not accomplish much.
Yeah, though if you just compare the initial fee to the other fees paid this summer (as someone else did above) it's not that excessive - even Stones would've been more expensive! I think it's more a case of all fees for up and coming stars rising too much, rather than United doing anything out of the ordinary in this particular deal.
Ok that's fair enough to be fair.Clearly incorrect.
It's impossible to say. Saying we've overpaid suggests he isn't worth the money which means he'd be shit for us. Saying we haven't overpaid suggests he's worth the money which means he's been great for us.
He hasn't played a single minute yet. How can we decide whether we've over paid? It's all relative to his performances. It's the question you ask after the dust has settled and he's played a few seasons for us.
But if you compare those players, those players actually did something barring Stones(I might be wrong about this and Stones has actually done something to merit the fee taking in regards long term potential aswell). And Chelsea refuse to pay such a fee because it was excessive.Yeah, though if you just compare the initial fee to the other fees paid this summer (as someone else did above) it's not that excessive - even Stones would've been more expensive! I think it's more a case of all fees for up and coming stars rising too much, rather than United doing anything out of the ordinary in this particular deal.
De Bryune - Bundusliga player of the year, amongst many other things.
Sterling - English international regular and a great debut season, with some awards under his name.
I was messing around as you were quite obviously tired of the discussion about his fee.
Yep, and Sterling and De Bruyne cost 50m+, which is a big step up from Martial's initial fee. Pretty sure there are other examples too, or price tags for players who, like Stones, might have moved but didn't.
Sterling's record as of the end of last season, when he was the age Martial is now, is pretty comparable to be honest. And given the praise he was getting on here at the end of last season, most people would've said you wouldn't get him for £36m at the time. He was proven in the premiership, fine, but that's about it.
Value's almost entirely retrospective as a poster above said. £80m for Ronaldo felt like a good deal at the time, now it feels like we've been robbed. £30m for Ferdinand was a hell of a lot, now a bargain. £60m for Di Maria, proven world class that couldn't go wrong, now a massive waste. Let's give him a bit of time before all the handwringing.
I think a better comparison is the Stones deal and Chelsea pulling out because of the excessive fee is currently more comparable. If Martial activate 2 of the three clause, his fee would be acceptable like De Bryune and Sterling because it showcase without a reasonable doubt that he has accomplished something and he merited such a price tag. However, now this conventional goal is something that Martial has to meet and it might put a burden on his performance. Hopefully, he is able to shoulder this much responsibility.
Some poster already mentions how similar Martial record is with other said individual, but that points merits very little because even the likes of Macheada could boast about how better his goalscoring record is at that age. Sterling on the other hand could boast more than his average record and he could boast about being an international regular and gaining awards like the golden boy award at Liverpool, that Martial has yet to attain something similar at his level. I do agree though that value is entirely retrospective and if Martial can contribute 15 goals a season while being a valuable member to our team, his initial fee and all those clause will be irrelevant.
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I was messing around as you were quite obviously tired of the discussion about his fee.
you can tell I'm tired of the whole thing (plus today - that Wales game took a lot out of me).Lets talk about the fee because no cnut on here has brought it up yet.
Yeah, definitely a better comparison. In the case of Stones, he's a defender so would normally require a lower fee, plus Chelsea aren't as rich as us and already have a fairly strong squad defensively. In the case of Martial, he's a striker so would normally be the most expensive type of player, plus we have cash to burn and are extremely thin up front.
An even better comparison would be Rooney (albeit Rooney had better credentials at the time), who probably cost more once you take inflation into account. I think we've overpaid, but only by like £5-10m or so - I think few would've batted an eye at a ~ £30m initial fee.
So, my take on this:
Welcome to United Anthony Martial!
Don't read any Caf posts before, during and after transfer periods and you'll be fine!
Most of us feel excited about you playing for us and if you start banging in goals the others will love you too (even if they'll never admit it)!
Don't worry about your pricetag, it'll seem reasonable, maybe even dirt cheap once the new tv contract kicks in next year.
You're going to be part of a young, hungry, pacey team that's going to win titles.
Who knows, you might turn into the player lots of us hoped Danny Welbeck would turn into. Nah...just kidding!
But at the end of the day, you've signed for one of the few clubs in the world that can take you all the way. It's up to you:
Eric Cantona* or Gabriel Obertan
*just make sure you don't leave anyone in doubt otherwise someday some dickhead will create a "Is Anthony Martial a United legend"-thread
Welcome to United Anthony Martial!
Don't read any Caf posts before, during and after transfer periods and you'll be fine!
Most of us feel excited about you playing for us and if you start banging in goals the others will love you too (even if they'll never admit it)!
Don't worry about your pricetag, it'll seem reasonable, maybe even dirt cheap once the new tv contract kicks in next year.
You're going to be part of a young, hungry, pacey team that's going to win titles.
Who knows, you might turn into the player lots of us hoped Danny Welbeck would turn into. Nah...just kidding!
But at the end of the day, you've signed for one of the few clubs in the world that can take you all the way. It's up to you:
Eric Cantona* or Gabriel Obertan
*just make sure you don't leave anyone in doubt otherwise someday some dickhead will create a "Is Anthony Martial a United legend"-thread
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You forgot to mention that kung-fu lessons are probably not a good idea, even if he wants to go down the Cantona route.
Agree with this, think the worry with him is that he doesnt fulfill the clauses not that he will and we will have to pay extra. That extra money is nothing compared due to the clause being structured in such a way where it will hugely benefit us.
Anthony Martial to Sad Chris:- feck off, I dont read the caf.
Accidental RAWK award to you.
I did, then I remembered its 22 Million and 36 after 4 years.
I hope when he plays, LVG will ask the midfielders and Mata to not hesitate passing him the ball behind the defensive lines. We have pace, now we need the positive passing that goes with it.
you arent tired of repeating it
Nope not until people stfu about the moneyyou arent tired of repeating it
Chris, that's sad.
No it's not - that manages to bother over and under-state the fee in one go, which is quote something.
It's £36m, some of which we happen to have got on credit (if it emerged that we've borrowed the £22m we already paid, would you claim he was free?).
And it's potential another £22m or so - most likely 2/3 of that, but possibly none, possibly all.
No doubt - the add-ons are fine, but I'd have thought £20m basic with £38m of add-ons would be a more sensible fee.
Yep, we have the players who now like to play a direct approach, but a coach who wants to play a slow methodical build up. Hopefully it changes somewhere.
Memphis and this guy are going to be crucial if we are go get future successes. I fear both are going to fail though as neither seem to take initiative while attacking the likes of Ronaldo, Messi, Suarez, Neymar does for their team. May be I am just being pessimistic today.
Yeah, no more excuse for this shit slow zombie paced football.
I meant more in Rooney's case. Obviously many players play well into their 30's but I can't see Rooney being one of them
Your views just seem to be negative for the sake of it, without giving United any credit.
A young 19 year old moving to United is going to be a big deal regardless of the fee. Pretty sure we were all saying the same about Shaw last year. For Martial, him soring 25 goals over 4 years is hardly pressure if he is going to make the grade, so how is that not a win for United, we obviously want him to score that in 1 season rather than 4 seasons. If he becomes regular for France, surely that also means he is pretty good so is a win-win because he must be at a certain level. As for the Ballon d'or, it is very unlikely that with the talent out there and the fact that he plays in the PL that wil,ever become a reality in 4 years. I am maybe being too positive, but I just not get the constant we cou,d have bought the finished product for the money. Well for 36M we wouldn't, and for 50M+ they are not for sale.
I did not realize that he has to score 25 goals in four years, not just in one. That is easily achievable for any decent strikers in football, so in reality in the next four years his price will most likely be £51m. For that fee, I expect two out of the three clause are minimum requirement in evaluation of his success and accomplishment at his time here.
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This is complete nonsense. Chelsea didn't pull out as much as Everton told them to take their rubles and feck off. This also conveniently ignores the reports that not only were Chelsea interested in the player, but they also were willing to match United's offer.
so people would prefer us not to have an exciting up and coming potential star in our team, but have more money in the bank? if so, do you look at United's bank account balance and gain joy from it?
Chelsea was deterred after the price for Stones reached an excessive and insurmountable amount. Just like Manchester United, we had multiple bids for Martial rejected, until we ended up paying this incredible amount. Chelsea on the other hand, did not continue the pursuit and looked elsewhere.
You have to be reasonable with the money you spend. We have spent close to £250m on our attack and we do not look better in the attack than David Moyes Manchester United. I rather United spend £20m rising to £40m on Martial, than £36m rising to £51m. Moreover, it done earlier in the window, so we will not be fleeced by a club that knows we are desperate for an attacker and Martial will have more time to settle and less pressure put on him.
First of all Chelsea wasn't deterred by the price. They were stonewalled by Everton. Them acting like the finances were the issue is an attempt at making it seem as if they broke off negotiations and not shot down in the attempts to sign Stones by Martinez, Kenwright and Everton.
Chelsea wanted to sign Martial and were willing to match the fee which United ended up paying. That doesn't demonstrate anything other than that they were just as interested in the player as United.
Why do you give a shit what United payed for Martial? You keep focusing on his individual fee and yet our overall net spend this summer was what £43m? Our net spend now on average over the last 2 years stands at around £75m per year. For a club of United's finances that is absolutely nothing.
I also wish they had signed Martial earlier in the window, but Monaco was not interested in selling him until after their CL playoff was decided. If they had gone through against Valencia it's unlikely he'd be a United player currently.
Im not going to lie; i do see similarities with welbeck. However; there was an element of chance that came with his movement that i think welbeck can't perfect.
Martial on the other side; might be devastating if he does.
Martial on the other side; might be devastating if he does.
Do you have any actual evidence that Chelsea wanted to match Manchester United price for Martial? Not some rumor based of nothing? Moreover, if Chelsea offered the same incentive we did for Martial, Stones would have been a Chelsea player, so moral integrity on that instance seem to take priority as he was not worth that much as he has not done much at his time at Everton.
I give more shit towards how we conduct ourselves in football because when Manchester City was doing this a few years ago, we were all lambasting how they bought tons of mercenaries and their way to a title. In the dynasty created by Sir Alex Ferguson and David Gill, we always used to land the biggest fish, like Van Persie and conducted ourselves with the upmost integrity. Now everyone one of our competitors is starting to realize we have turned into a circus that seem poorly managed. Net spend is it relavent as he have the third most expensive club in Europe and we still look like a work in progress. Net spend does not amount to how well we play, or how we conduct our self in the window.
Was their any proof aswell that we wanted Martial early in the window? You seem to believe Monaco would not have sold, yet I do not see how and why they would not if we had made him a priority before the window started like Depay and Shaw in the past. Martial was barely one of their bread winners in their team and even Kondogbia appeared to have a higher ceiling last season for them.
I have as much proof that Chelsea wanted to match the price for Martial as you do that they didn't. You seem to believe those supporting Chelsea's fiscal prudence, whereas I don't buy it based on their transfer dealings in the past and this summer.
Stones would not have been a Chelsea player because Everton was not interested in selling their best CB that late in the window without having a replacement lined up.
Net spend is pretty relevant. It's a lot more relevant than just saying we overpaid for Martial. Fine we overpaid for one player and got solid value on 4 others this summer in BFS, Schneiderlin, Darmian and Depay, all of whom are likely to be starting XI players for us this season and in the case of the latter 3 for the foreseeable likely for the foreseeable future. If you handle the majority of your business well then you can afford to spunk an absurd amount of money for a talent that was generating interest from most of Europe's top clubs.
We always landed the big fish with SAF and David Gill? Maybe more than not United did, but it surely wasn't every time. Chelsea's rise to prominence basically came by trumping United to a number of transfer targets and while I wasn't posting or reading here at the time I'd imagine that many here were desperately concerned over United's ability to compete in the transfer market.
Last summer I thought our dealings were indicative of Woodward's general lack of experience in handling the transfer market. This summer I don't agree with the idea he was out of his depth at all. They signed multiple players very early in the window, held firm on DDG to Madrid until they received an offer they were amenable to with cash and a proven quality GK coming in return (obviously this ended bizarrely and I'd bet we have differing opinions over who's to blame) and if the reports are true we were interested and pursued Martial well before the end of the window. Monaco's president even said that we had made multiple bids for the player that Monaco turned down before accepting I believe.
Martial displaced Berbatov in the starting XI for Monaco. From the 2 matches I saw against Valencia he was their best player, particularly in the first leg in Valencia. He was an important part of the team that wasn't going to be sold until after their CL playoff. To be clear that's my opinion based on everything I've read and how and when the transfer took place.
Also to be clear I'm not saying Woodward or United's transfer window was perfect as I'd have liked to see them add a quality CB and a right sided attacking player on top of everything else. I simply feel that the Martial signing was fine and that the way the club handled the transfers of all other players that were added did not scream of desperation or poor management from Woodward and the club.
And Suarez would be worth close to 100 if not for his discipline.
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