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finneh

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Ah that makes sense, which is fair enough. I take it back then.

Rashford is 21. His biggest weakness for a while now has been his decision-making. I remember Sterling a few years ago had very poor decision-making too, suddenly a few years later under a top class trainer in Guardiola and he's had multiple 20+ goal seasons now. So he's proof it definitely can be improved under the right guidance. City however had Aguero & multiple other consistent attackers so Sterling was never relied upon as heavily. He had the right environment to thrive in.

The biggest worry is, Rashford & our other young forwards don't have that. We currently have no-one to alleviate the responsibility from them until they are ready. We also have very questionable coaching here too. There is a clear lack of structure to our play, most of what we create is from individual brilliance. That's not exactly the greatest environment to grow in to begin with.

That's why i very much doubt any of this has been done in the youth or the team's interests. No-one would choose to do this.
Can't disagree with any of that.
 

finneh

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You should put up with his inconsistency by sending him out on loan. The day Man United fans are told they should accept an inconsistent nr 1 striker is the day we can say they are not a big club. Go ahead and tell Real, Barca and Bayern they should accept an inconsistent nr 1 striker and see what they say.
You're right, what the hell was Fergie doing having Ronaldo as our first choice winger; he should have sent him on loan to Preston for a couple of seasons.
 

Hughie77

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Just hope he stops shooting from long distances, and his free kicks bloody he'll!
 

Majima

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Well no, but its the budget the Glazers set
You're not wrong with any of what you're saying, but our current strategy is really nothing to be proud of personally.

It's done for the end goal of making them the most money at the minimum cost at the end of the day, to hell with what's best for the team.
 
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haram

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I wish someone could explain how any of this actually makes sense from a developing the youth standpoint but i just can't see it.
Well when people think all you have to do is throw young players in this is what you get.
 

finneh

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I wish someone could explain how any of this actually makes sense from a developing the youth standpoint but i just can't see it.
The same applies to Greenwood with people saying he should be starting. Not realising it can be counter productive to put that much pressure on a 17 year old.

Not everyone has the mental fortitude of Ronaldo.
 

SplitzMagic

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I think the biggest issue we have is the bad bad signings and then over relying on rashford all these years.

Rashford is a great player on his day but I can't help but feel he one of the main reasons for a lot of our woes up front. He is on stupid money now doesn't have a single player in the squad to look up to like he did with zlatan.

Look at the team Ronaldo had when he joined. He knew his place though he knew he was the best until it was his time but with rashford he just seems too rash and now big headed. Can you believe he was once compared to Mbappe :lol:

Basically another Rooney situation where we are playing him in the wrong position but getting new attackers means we don't know where to play him. He is best suit to lw but I feel like James will do a better job than him at all times. He can't go centre as he's not good there and can't play rw...... We can't even talk about him playing number 10 so that's where we have problems.

We can't keep a 300k a week miss fit on the bench now can we? Therefore improving the team is difficult with Rashford in it. I guess he's one of those players you expect to become world class but in what position?
 

Yagami

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He certainly wasn’t dropped because of his performance. Delighted he’s getting a rest anyway.
Yeah. Knowing Southgate, he probably always intended on Rashford starting one and Sancho the other regardless of their performance to see who gels best with Kane and Sterling.
 

Bwuk

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Sancho was always going to come in for one of the front 3. Kane and Sterling are untouchable, and I'd imagine at the moment Rashford is ahead of Sancho in the pecking order.
 

Santoryo

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I think the biggest issue we have is the bad bad signings and then over relying on rashford all these years.

Rashford is a great player on his day but I can't help but feel he one of the main reasons for a lot of our woes up front. He is on stupid money now doesn't have a single player in the squad to look up to like he did with zlatan.

Look at the team Ronaldo had when he joined. He knew his place though he knew he was the best until it was his time but with rashford he just seems too rash and now big headed. Can you believe he was once compared to Mbappe :lol:

Basically another Rooney situation where we are playing him in the wrong position but getting new attackers means we don't know where to play him. He is best suit to lw but I feel like James will do a better job than him at all times. He can't go centre as he's not good there and can't play rw...... We can't even talk about him playing number 10 so that's where we have problems.

We can't keep a 300k a week miss fit on the bench now can we? Therefore improving the team is difficult with Rashford in it. I guess he's one of those players you expect to become world class but in what position?
We've never relied let alone over relied on Rashford "all these years". We had brought in other main strikers to whom we relied on. Now whether they delivered or not isn't the point of contention right now but it's important to point out that we never relied on Rashford, the strikers brought in(Zlatan, Lukaku) were relied upon and depending on how their fared they got either criticised or praised.

We weren't relying on Rashford all these years.
 

SplitzMagic

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We've never relied let alone over relied on Rashford "all these years". We had brought in other main strikers to whom we relied on. Now whether they delivered or not isn't the point of contention right now but it's important to point out that we never relied on Rashford, the strikers brought in(Zlatan, Lukaku) were relied upon and depending on how their fared they got either criticised or praised.

We weren't relying on Rashford all these years.
So rashford playing 40+ games a season isn't over relying?

The guys on 300k per week at 21... Another Rooney but no end product. Hasn't even hit 20 goals in a season so that shows how awful we have been not getting in real leaders or experience. Heck, we can't even buy midfielders although we lost a load.

The last real ST was lukaku and before him ibra who has obviously left and was old anyways. Where are the players for him to look up to like how sterling has managed to improve playing with aguero?

If Daniel James keeps up his form and Martial begins to smash it for us in the middle, where does rashford fit in? He can't okay number 10 not can he play RW. Only place for him is LW and currently James is better than him in that side. He can't score tap ins through the middle so it leaves us with a Rooney situation.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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Yes and rightly so. He needs a bit of a wake up call for both club and country. He shouldn't be an automatic or regular starter for either based on his current form.

Dare I say...….he needs his bubble bursting....

Burst away, my dear Gareth! Burst away.
 

George Beast

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Sancho replaced him and without the flicks and tricks is infinitely more effecient. Hard to see him making it back into this team bar an injury. Should be a massive wake up call being replaced by a younger better English player on every level
 

Santoryo

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What with the ridiculous hate and even more ridiculous need some have to constantly drop here and hate the guy regardless of how he performs or even if he plays at all?
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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He performed well against Bulgaria, so he was hardly dropped because of that. Southgate said he wanted to see some players.

Felt he did well when he came on tonight. Made a few decent runs and made some nice passes.

From an England fans point of view, it's great that we have so many good options now anyway.
 

OL29

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What with the ridiculous hate and even more ridiculous need some have to constantly drop here and hate the guy regardless of how he performs or even if he plays at all?
The usual bullshit from football fans, hype a young player to ridiculous levels only to knock them down when they don’t live up to those expectations. Those ridiculous comparisons to Mbappe didn’t help, Mbappe’s an anomaly, expecting Rashford to tear it up every week was always going to end in disappointment. It was the same nonsense when everyone turned on Martial after his first season, we forget that they’re young players who are still developing, very few players, particularly forwards are consistent at that age.
 

KennyBurner

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Ah that makes sense, which is fair enough. I take it back then.

Rashford is 21. His biggest weakness for a while now has been his decision-making. I remember Sterling a few years ago had very poor decision-making too, suddenly a few years later under a top class trainer in Guardiola and he's had multiple 20+ goal seasons now. So he's proof it definitely can be improved under the right guidance. City however had Aguero & multiple other consistent attackers so Sterling was never relied upon as heavily. He had the right environment to thrive in.

The biggest worry is, Rashford & our other young forwards don't have that. We currently have no-one to alleviate the responsibility from them until they are ready. We also have very questionable coaching here too. There is a clear lack of structure to our play, most of what we create is from individual brilliance. That's not exactly the greatest environment to grow in to begin with.

That's why i very much doubt any of this has been done in the youth or the team's interests. No-one would choose to do this.
I agree with most of what you've said but that bolded part is absolute rubbish. Sterling has never suffered from poor decision making. Maybe you've said it to find some correlation between him and rashford where in reality there isnt one. he was brilliant at liverpool and is now brilliant at city. Guardiola helped his career in some way but he was always destined for greatness with or without guardiola. The only problem with him over the years has been his final ball or technique. Its improved and is getting him the goods but is still a bit shaky.
 

Majima

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I agree with most of what you've said but that bolded part is absolute rubbish. Sterling has never suffered from poor decision making. Maybe you've said it to find some correlation between him and rashford where in reality there isnt one. he was brilliant at liverpool and is now brilliant at city. Guardiola helped his career in some way but he was always destined for greatness with or without guardiola. The only problem with him over the years has been his final ball or technique. Its improved and is getting him the goods but is still a bit shaky.
Why is it rubbish? Think about it. Sterling's main weakness before Guardiola was his decision-making in front of goal. I remember his final season at Liverpool very well. He was brilliant at Liverpool I agree but he was still hesitant in front of goal. You even agreed with that yourself.

Compare both of their stats:

Sterling's final season at Liverpool PL stats at 20;
35 games, 7 goals, 8 assists.

Rashford's PL stats at same age (17/18);
35 games, 7 goals, 5 assists.

Sterling's 1st season at City PL stats at 21;
31 games, 6 goals, 2 assists.

Rashford PL stats last season at 21;
33 games, 10 goals, 7 assists.

Sterling's 2nd season at City PL stats at 22;
33 games, 7 goals, 10 assists.

Sterling's PL stats with City at 23;
33 games, 18 goals, 15 assists.

As you can see, their records at the same age are very similar.

To say Sterling was always destined for greatness wasn't true & is hindsight. Nothing is ever set in stone. I never thought he was capable of the records he's posting now, that's for sure. He's benefited from excellent coaching at City from Guardiola and has matured with age.

Rashford has similar weaknesses. He is excellent at getting into a dangerous position, but once there, his decision making is letting him down. That's normal though. The biggest thing is that he keeps on getting into those positions in the first place.

That's how it is with young players, they consistently frustrate until bang, they explode, it suddenly clicks and away they go.
 

roonster09

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Why is it rubbish? Think about it. Sterling's main weakness before Guardiola was his decision-making in front of goal. I remember his final season at Liverpool very well. He was brilliant at Liverpool I agree but he was still hesitant in front of goal. You even agreed with that yourself.

Compare both of their stats:

Sterling's final season at Liverpool PL stats at 20;
35 games, 7 goals, 8 assists.

Rashford's PL stats at same age (17/18);
35 games, 7 goals, 5 assists.

Sterling's 1st season at City PL stats at 21;
31 games, 6 goals, 2 assists.

Rashford PL stats last season at 21;
33 games, 10 goals, 7 assists.

Sterling's 2nd season at City PL stats at 22;
33 games, 7 goals, 10 assists.

Sterling's PL stats with City at 23;
33 games, 18 goals, 15 assists.

As you can see, their records at the same age are very similar.

To say Sterling was always destined for greatness wasn't true & is hindsight. Nothing is ever set in stone. I never thought he was capable of the records he's posting now, that's for sure. He's benefited from excellent coaching at City from Guardiola and has matured with age.

Rashford has similar weaknesses. He is excellent at getting into a dangerous position, but once there, his decision making is letting him down. That's normal though. The biggest thing is that he keeps on getting into those positions in the first place.

That's how it is with young players, they consistently frustrate until bang, they explode, it suddenly clicks and away they go.
Yeah. Even in CAF there are posts laughing at Sterling and calling him average player.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Why is it rubbish? Think about it. Sterling's main weakness before Guardiola was his decision-making in front of goal. I remember his final season at Liverpool very well. He was brilliant at Liverpool I agree but he was still hesitant in front of goal. You even agreed with that yourself.

Compare both of their stats:

Sterling's final season at Liverpool PL stats at 20;
35 games, 7 goals, 8 assists.

Rashford's PL stats at same age (17/18);
35 games, 7 goals, 5 assists.

Sterling's 1st season at City PL stats at 21;
31 games, 6 goals, 2 assists.

Rashford PL stats last season at 21;
33 games, 10 goals, 7 assists.

Sterling's 2nd season at City PL stats at 22;
33 games, 7 goals, 10 assists.

Sterling's PL stats with City at 23;
33 games, 18 goals, 15 assists.

As you can see, their records at the same age are very similar.

To say Sterling was always destined for greatness wasn't true & is hindsight. Nothing is ever set in stone. I never thought he was capable of the records he's posting now, that's for sure. He's benefited from excellent coaching at City from Guardiola and has matured with age.

Rashford has similar weaknesses. He is excellent at getting into a dangerous position, but once there, his decision making is letting him down. That's normal though. The biggest thing is that he keeps on getting into those positions in the first place.

That's how it is with young players, they consistently frustrate until bang, they explode, it suddenly clicks and away they go.
While I don't disagree that we need to be patient with young players, and people go alarmingly overboard with their criticism of Rashford, in spite of what the stats do say, what they don't is also important. Sterling as a teenager (when he brok through for Liverpool) showed a level of completeness and quality that I haven't seen from Rashford yet. His quality on the ball and in the buildup was excellent in those early periods at Liverpool alongside Sturriidge and Suarez. He looked a frighteningly talented kid. Rashford, for me, has never looked that talented. Since be broke through he's appeared more effective/end product oriented than a completely natural and pure attacking talent.

To sum up, patience is important with kids but hopefully Rashford improves in the general excellence of his play, and intelligence too.
 

Majima

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Yeah. Even in CAF there are posts laughing at Sterling and calling him average player.
Remember that match against Liverpool at OT that season where Sterling missed how many chances? The Sterling from then to now are like night & day in comparison.
 

Majima

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While I don't disagree that we need to be patient with young players, and people go alarmingly overboard with their criticism of Rashford, in spite of what the stats do say, what they don't is also important. Sterling as a teenager (when he brok through for Liverpool) showed a level of completeness and quality that I haven't seen from Rashford yet. His quality on the ball and in the buildup was excellent in those early periods at Liverpool alongside Sturriidge and Suarez. He looked a frighteningly talented kid. Rashford, for me, has never looked that talented. Since be broke through he's appeared more effective/end product oriented than a completely natural and pure attacking talent.

To sum up, patience is important with kids but hopefully Rashford improves in the general excellence of his play, and intelligence too.
Oh I completely agree, Sterling's general play & awareness in & around the box was excellent. He was a natural at it.

Rashford's awareness of his teammates definitely leaves a lot to be desired at times. He gets tunnel-vision a lot. I hope he significantly brushes up on this in the future too. That's one of his biggest flaws I would say.
 

Grande

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Oh I completely agree, Sterling's general play & awareness in & around the box was excellent. He was a natural at it.

Rashford's awareness of his teammates definitely leaves a lot to be desired at times. He gets tunnel-vision a lot. I hope he significantly brushes up on this in the future too. That's one of his biggest flaws I would say.
Yes, different qualities and different weaknesses. Sterling was comfortable on the ball for a short pass or a burst of speed away from a marker, but he so often was flustered when close to goal, and his shot was weak. He has increased his composure a lot the last couple of years even.

Rashford will improve on this as well, both in regard to spotting a pass and about what kind of run to make, and what kind of finish to make (he’s already improved on this last under Solskjær).
 

Hawks2008

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Requoting this. Only difference is that 21 year old Ronaldo or 21 year old Henry were never expected to be the lead forwards at their respective clubs. We need a senior striker, someone to take the limelight. Rashford and indeed Martial should play second fiddle.
Anyone could see these 2 aren't ready, anyone but our manager evidently.
 

roonster09

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Anyone could see these 2 aren't ready, anyone but our manager evidently.
Martial is 23 and will be 24 this year, if he isn't ready now then he won't be ready at all. Its high time managers trust these players with bigger responsibilities.
 

Hawks2008

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Martial is 23 and will be 24 this year, if he isn't ready now then he won't be ready at all. Its high time managers trust these players with bigger responsibilities.
Exactly, they have been first teamers here for 4 seasons and now that evil men Lukaku, Zlatan, Sanchez, Mourinho etc. are gone the path is finally clear for the clubs golden boys and there is no more excuses for them. If they don't very quickly fulfil their potential it's going to be a long season.
 

roonster09

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Exactly, they have been first teamers here for 4 seasons and now that evil men Lukaku, Zlatan, Sanchez, Mourinho etc. are gone the path is finally clear for the clubs golden boys and there is no more excuses for them. If they don't very quickly fulfil their potential it's going to be a long season.
Why no excuses for them? People still give excuses for players in their prime, why not for young players?
 

Hawks2008

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Why no excuses for them? People still give excuses for players in their prime, why not for young players?
Because now they are going to be regular starters, the burden of scoring our goals is on them. They are young but they aren't kids anymore and they have been in an around the first team for 4 seasons now with lots of talk about others taking their place or holding them back. These people are gone and the starting spots are clear for them. They have to perform at the expected levels just like everyone else.
 

Winmove

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Why no excuses for them? People still give excuses for players in their prime, why not for young players?
Cause if they don't perform , who else could we put the blame and responsibilities for ? All the evil men has gone , no one can be their scapegoat anymore.
 

roonster09

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Because now they are going to be regular starters, the burden of scoring our goals is on them. They are young but they aren't kids anymore and they have been in an around the first team for 4 seasons now with lots of talk about others taking their place or holding them back. These people are gone and the starting spots are clear for them. They have to perform at the expected levels just like everyone else.
Of course they should perform at expected levels but why no excuses? People were giving excuses for Lukaku when he was guaranteed starter and at his peak.

If we keep unrealistic expectations then for sure they are going to fail. For example, as a 24 and 25 year old Mane scored 13 and 10 league goals for Liverpool. If Rashford scores as many goals is that good enough? He will also play most of the season in same position (as a winger).

As a team we have to improve, we should rely on more goal scorers than just 2. Last season it was decent enough with 4 players scoring more than 10 goals, likewise we need more players but instead of 10, the number should be bigger.
 

Kostur

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While I don't disagree that we need to be patient with young players, and people go alarmingly overboard with their criticism of Rashford, in spite of what the stats do say, what they don't is also important. Sterling as a teenager (when he brok through for Liverpool) showed a level of completeness and quality that I haven't seen from Rashford yet. His quality on the ball and in the buildup was excellent in those early periods at Liverpool alongside Sturriidge and Suarez. He looked a frighteningly talented kid. Rashford, for me, has never looked that talented. Since be broke through he's appeared more effective/end product oriented than a completely natural and pure attacking talent.

To sum up, patience is important with kids but hopefully Rashford improves in the general excellence of his play, and intelligence too.
Think it's also worth noting that in the last season at Pool Sterling had Suarez in front of him, rat fecker scored like what, 60-70% of their goals that season? He was carrying the shit out of them so it's a tad easier to look good attacking wise when you've got somebody like that in your team. At United we've got nobody like this and we're actually depending on Rashfords of the world to deliver.
 

simonhch

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That hate for Rashford is as juvenile as it is preposterous. This kid has massive potential. People forget how young he is. He’s 21 ffs. On his day he is fantastic. But he’s inconsistent. Well, duh, he’s 21. 95% of players are inconsistent at his age. Just look at how his frame has changed in the last 3 years since he broke through. He’s an absolute unit now, and is still discovering his game. It’s absolutely bonkers to shit on this kid. He’s the best player to come through the academy in fecking ages. And with some patience, guidance, hard work and luck, he’s going to be a fantastic player for us.

The cretins in our fan base always do this. Hype youngsters to the max, then strip them down at the first sign of difficulty. All our successful young players here have gone through it. People wanted Scholes dropped when he came through. People shit on Ronaldo and his end product until he was about 21/22 (after the initial hype). Fletcher got it really badly. Perhaps worse than anyone.

As always, the hyping is unrealistic. As is the slagging off. Greenwood and Gomes are in for a tough time.

Look at Dan James ffs. First start against Wolves and people were calling him a championship player and never in a million years a United player. I’d pull up some of the posts, but I can’t be arsed. But suffice to say that some of them were as half witted as they come after watching a player for one game. Two games later and people are hyping him to the max and calling him potential signing of the season and first name on the team sheet. Half of them the same stupid cnuts that were writing him off - categorically - and slagging off the management for his signing, just days before.

The management and leadership of this institution has been appalling these last few years; but I have to say that some of our fan base is equally appalling. And you wonder if they even have the first clue about football.