Martial has got to remain at United | No, he hasn't been unfollowing United players on Instagram

[Member 5225]

Great debate in this thread.

Clearly I don't see it in him, plus I get really wound up on stories re: his strop at giving up his shirt number for Zlatan, and his off-field issues (him cheating on his partner) affecting his game....for a whole year! comical.

 

[beycont]

Haha.... Ronaldo scoring his goals has nothing to do with Mourinho coaching or managing him. If that was the case, Ronaldo and team wouldn't be against him and have him kicked out of the Bernabeu. And Mourinho had a world class team back then with world class players in every position. We don't have that luxury.

So players producing and excelling under Mourinho has nothing to do with Mourinho, but players not producing and reaching their potential has everything to do with Mourhinho? Did i get it right?

 

[Greck]

Doesn't matter how inconsistent he's been. You don't offload 22yr olds till you have a good idea of their peak. Why is Jose so impatient?

 

[VeevaVee]

Why is Jose so impatient?

Who said he is? It's more likely Martial wants constant first team despite his age and performances imo. Or that everyone is happy and this is all media and the caf.

 

[beergod]

Seriously like what on earth has he actually done? So overrated on here IMHO.

Makes a few good youtube highlights when he can be bothered to get his head in the game and puts out good statistics. Both paint a very different picture than the player you see out on the pitch for the majority of the match.

 

[Greck]

Who said he is? It's more likely Martial wants constant first team despite his age and performances imo. Or that everyone is happy and this is all media and the caf.

You could work for the sun if you want to be able to present more of your opinions as facts. Anyway I suspect it's all media speculation

 

[Red_toad]

Doesn't matter how inconsistent he's been. You don't offload 22yr olds till you have a good idea of their peak. Why is Jose so impatient?

Jose has stated on a few occasions how talented he thinks Martial is. Somehow on the Caf the flock mentality turns this into Jose doesn't like him and wants to sell him.

 

[beingshe7don]

The most important part of the op... he's 22. He doesn't need to start every game.

Btw, does the op realise that Martial has played 40 games for us this season so far, either as a starter or off the bench? Sane has played 41 for City this season... he's also 22.

If you're good enough... you're old enough.... being 22 has nothing to do with it.

According to whoscored.com
Martial --- 16(10) Appearances --- 1346 min ---- 9 goals & 5 assists
Sane --- 21(5) Appearances --- 1909 min ---- 9 goals & 11 assists

Minutes/ game played
Martial: 1346/ 26 = 51.8 min/ game. He still contributed to 14 goals
Sane : 1909/ 26 = 73.4 min/ game. He contributed to 20 goals

Minutes/ goals contribution
Martial: 1346/ 14 = 96.1 min/ goals contribution
Sane : 1909/ 20 = 95.5 min/ goals contribution

United have played 31 games which give or take equals 2790 min and Martial has played 1346/ 2790 = 48% of the total time
City have played 31 games which equals 2790 min and Sane has played 1909/ 2790 = 68% of the total time

As for the goal contribution, Sane edges Martial a little better. Not to mention, Sane was injured for 3 weeks or so and therefore, could not feature in the team. If not, he would have played more minutes and possibly scored more as well. But the question raised was that Martial and Sane played the same number of games. They probably did play the same number of games but it's the minutes on the pitch that matter. If Martial was playing in Pep's team, his numbers would have been a lot better given the chances they create.

 

[hasanejaz88]

One of the most naturally gifted players I've seen at United in recent years, I would start him in every match because he has the ability to create a single play on his own to create/score a goal. I did not understand why United both Sanchez in light of the clear potential Martial has and has shown throughout his time here.

It would absolutely poor from United to sell him, for any price, and I can see many of the top clubs vying for his signature if United do decide to cash in on him.

If you're good enough... you're old enough.... being 22 has nothing to do with it.


As for the goal contribution, Sane edges Martial a little better. Not to mention, Sane was injured for 3 weeks or so and therefore, could not feature in the team. If not, he would have played more minutes and possibly scored more as well. But the question raised was that Martial and Sane played the same number of games. They probably did play the same number of games but it's the minutes on the pitch that matter. If Martial was playing in Pep's team, his numbers would have been a lot better given the chances they create.

I would say Martial is slightly more naturally talented than Sane. Sane has looked fantastic for City, but outside of that system he has struggled this season (for Germany) and I still think he is a bit one dimensional in where and how he can play. Martial can play at a very high level as a LW, cutting inside, or as a striker as well.

It's a shame Martial isn't getting as much faith from the manager as Sane is from Pep.

 

[beingshe7don]

So players producing and excelling under Mourinho has nothing to do with Mourinho, but players not producing and reaching their potential has everything to do with Mourhinho? Did i get it right?

Nope... That's not what I meant. The discussion was Ronaldo specific and Mourinho was managing CR7 who was the best in the world at that time (Age 24/25) and had already won the Ballon Do'or and Champions League and other trophies. He was in his prime to begin with. Mourinho inherited a team with Ronaldo in it, so I don't see how Mourinho produced the best in Ronaldo? If he did anything, he did very little to make Ronaldo better. All the work to get Ronaldo to what he is, was all due to Sir Alex and Ronaldo himself. I also mentioned that Mourinho inherited a Real team filled with stars. Ozil was bought in after winning the World Cup with Germany. Angel Di Maria was phenomenal. Benzema knew where the goal post was back then. Kaka was also part of that team if my memory serves me right.

Now coming to the second part of the question about players not producing or reaching their potential... yes... yes and yes.... it has to do with Mourinho. Mourinho not playing them consistently to get a run of games in the same position is NOT helping the young players nurture or helping them reach their potential. De Bruyne and Salah would have never reached their true potential had they still been at Chelsea and still been managed by Mourinho. Martial seems to be stuck in the same rut as them.

 

[beingshe7don]

Excellent thread.

He's even more productive than his debut season and has improved his defensive tracking back. He tracks back and works hard.

He is not without flaws but he made improvements and became a starter. Sanchez came and martial got injured too.

He most definitely must stay. Fans at Old Trafford seem to love him. Love the Buzz in the crowd when he has the ball. Even on his poor days he can split open a team with a dribble or flick or shot.

Thank you. That's what I wanted people on the CAF to take notice of. The guy has a bit of magic in him. You could say that about CR7, Nani, Rooney and Van Persie over the years who could do something and that's what Martial is all about. With the right guidance, he can definitely raise his game to a much higher level.

 

[prath92]

I agree he should stay and sign the contract. He is given a lot of chances here. Also he is being managed well by rotation with Sanchez and Rashford.

I think he will sign tbh.

 

[beingshe7don]

Jose has stated on a few occasions how talented he thinks Martial is. Somehow on the Caf the flock mentality turns this into Jose doesn't like him and wants to sell him.

Jose likes to keep all the players he thinks is talented, on the bench. He came out and said that there aren't any LBs that are better than Luke Shaw and publicly slated him. Do you see my skepticism in accepting whatever that comes out of Jose's mouth as being the truth?

It's not a flock mentality... It's the stats and for a person that Jose finds talented, he's only played 26 games in the PL and averages 51 min per game.

 

[VeevaVee]

You could work for the sun if you want to be able to present more of your opinions as facts. Anyway I suspect it's all media speculation

The feck are you on about? Your post stated a fact that wasn't true (Jose impatient) and I presented a case of what I think is more likely.

I can only imagine that the only way Jose would want to get rid is if he really does think Martial is taking the piss in terms of effort, and I'd be fine with that.
Should I bold the first four words for you?

 

[tenpoless]

Martial may not have outstanding figures to his name like the Sterling, Sane or Salah but there should be no doubt he's a phenomenal player. The guy on his day could rival any of those aforementioned names. But the question that most skeptics ask are when are those days and how often do those come about?

Mourinho supporters blame Martial for not being consistent and so on. The guy arrived at United as a teenager with a close to 60m tag on his head. He moved to a new league and to a team that wasn't performing at it's best. He hit the ground running with his stunning goal against Liverpool. The guy was simply phenomenal in his first year. He scored crucial goals like the one against Everton to take us ahead in the FA cup. The guy is a gem whose talent is on the level of Nani. I would have said Ronaldo but he's just a freak of nature. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that Martial is one player who has what it takes to make it really big. The kind of numbers in terms of assists and goals should be on par with Sterling. However, that's not been the case and that's because of the lack of chances.

The guy had a crappy second season because of his off the field issues but came back strongly this year and yet he lost his place to Sanchez. The guy has been treated very poorly from the get go from losing the No. 9 shirt to Zlatan without his knowledge to losing his position for Sanchez. This is poor treatment from United. And then there are talks that we could sell him to Juve to get Bale (a has been) from Madrid. These may just be talks or rumors but then the lack of game time to Martial has been completely unwarranted.

I feel really sad saying this but this guy would be running riot at City, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool and even Arsenal. He's just 22 years of age. He needs to be played consistently to instill confidence and get his self esteem up. There are some players that are very strong mentally aka Ronaldo who will never be affected by the boos or anyone saying that he's not good. He believes in himself but Martial needs to be treated differently aka Nani. I remember Rio stating that Fergie never yelled at Nani and actually used positive reinforcement to get the best out of him. Similarly, Mourinho needs to do the same.

I don't care for Mourinho in or Mourinho out but Martial needs to be IN. I don't want us regretting like what Chelsea are doing with the sale of Lukaku, De bruyne and Salah. Coincidentally, all those transfers occurred when Mourinho was manager and now Chelsea seem like the losers.

I see the board been blinded by Mourinho's achievements thus far going along with the Martial sale.

The purpose of this thread to prevent us from making the mistakes that Chelsea made... #martialplays and hence he stays.

Firstly, Arsenal is the only team that He'll be a guaranteed starter for out of all the teams in your list. Some people seem to multiple the problems We are having by three and divide the good things We do by two. Grass is always greener on the other side etc etc. Martial is a good player but He is not even world class yet. He wants to start every game? then He better work for it. He's in a tough position, the competition is high for the left wing position but He has to fight for his spot. This isn't Westham United.

I'd be much worried for Shaw because He hasn't improved at all since He joined the club, you could say He even regressed despite of how talented He is. Martial has improved and is still improving.

Secondly, I doubt an online thread could prevent the club from doing anything They see best for them. But most importantly, Where's He going again? did Jose say He's gonna sell Martial? did Martial say He's unhappy? Overly dramatic thread, that hashtag only adds to it.

 

[Greck]

The feck are you on about? Your post stated a fact that wasn't true (Jose impatient) and I presented a case of what I think is more likely.

I can only imagine that the only way Jose would want to get rid is if he really does think Martial is taking the piss in terms of effort, and I'd be fine with that.
Should I bold the first four words for you?

So you attempt to disprove a speculation by replacing it with another (Martial demanding first team appearances and not giving effort)? Anyway Jose has shown hints of impatience with Martial but not to the point of wanting to sell him.

 

[VeevaVee]

So you attempt to disprove a speculation by replacing it with another (Martial demanding first team appearances and not giving effort)? Anyway Jose has shown hints of impatience with Martial but not to the point of wanting to sell him.

I think you have a problem with comprehension.

You asked why Jose is impatient, which has no factual basis.
I suggested something that seems more likely and clearly started that's all it was with the words "It's more likely".
You then accused me of presenting opinions as facts, despite this.
I then posted another possible but unlikely scenario starting with "I can only imagine that the only way", which quite obviously suggests that it's unlikely. Also predicted you fecking reading that up.

 

[Greck]

I think you have a problem with comprehension.

You asked why Jose is impatient, which has no factual basis.
I suggested something that seems more likely and clearly started that's all it was with the words "It's more likely".
You then accused me of presenting opinions as facts, despite this.
I then posted another possible but unlikely scenario starting with "I can only imagine that the only way", which quite obviously suggests that it's unlikely. Also predicted you fecking reading that up.

Calm down. I'm sure you're too old to be raging over an Internet argument. What if your younger ones see you this way? We can both agree all of this is likely speculation. There is also no speculation you have suggested 'that is more likely', maybe except in the bizarro universe in your head, which is also fine

 

[Raees]

Bale could give us one season of RVP level brilliance but is it worth losing a potential worldie talent who under the right manager could give us half a decade worth of top service. Not imo.

Problem is we have a lot of short term vision fans at the moment who just lack long term perspective. The more they bang on about results results results paradoxically they aren't really getting the elite level results a club of this stature should be getting and the long term prospects of success also become harmed at the same time.

 

[VeevaVee]

Calm down. I'm sure you're too old to be raging over an Internet argument. What if your younger ones see you this way? We can both agree all of this is likely speculation. There is also no speculation you have suggested 'that is more likely', maybe except in the bizarro universe in your head, which is also fine

I'm not raging in the slightest. You're a loony

 

[It's B Rubble]

"Anthony Martial, the French Ronaldo"
-Juan Mata
/thread

 

[BenjaminP]

If Martial leaves, it would be the most devastating departure since Ronaldo.
We had no chance of keeping Ronaldo at the time, with his promise with SAF. This time, we have a chance to keep him. We have a chance to play him.
I'm Mourinho IN for the moment, but if Martial OUT, then sorry Mourinho OUT.

 

[kouroux]

If Martial leaves, it would be the most devastating departure since Ronaldo.
We had no chance of keeping Ronaldo at the time, with his promise with SAF. This time, we have a chance to keep him. We have a chance to play him.
I'm Mourinho IN for the moment, but if Martial OUT, then sorry Mourinho OUT.

Maybe it would suck but it sure won't be "devastating". Reading many comments, I see people are a bit OTT with the praise. I'd like him to stay personally but if he goes, I won't be bothered one bit by it.

 

[Micky Targaryen]

I get why some on here wants Martial to stay and play more minutes. I get that Martial is a very talented player. I get that he is still young and has plenty of room to develop. I personally would be indifferent as to whether he stays or leaves, because while he is a very talented, I don't think he is irreplaceable. Attitude-wise, it's still a question mark for me.

What I don't get is why are people willing to give Martial so much slack whenever he has a bad run of games e.g. When Zlatan took his shirt number, or when he was cheating on his girlfriend. And if there weren't any external issues, it's always Mourinho's fault. Petty issues

What I don't get is why do people here not give the same slack for Nani previously? Nani is a flair player as well, I don't recall him sulking much, and always gives his all for the team (esp the game vs Bayern), and on his day, he dishes out world class performances. And yet, the popular opinion back then was that Nani is incredibly frustrating and that he should leave the club.

So yeah, I'd argue that Martial currently is only half the player Nani was for us, but many on here go on about Martial as if he would be another Ronaldo or Henry. IMO, if he stays, he stays. If he goes, we can easily replace him adequately.

 

[prath92]

Maybe it would suck but it sure won't be "devastating". Reading many comments, I see people are a bit OTT with the praise. I'd like him to stay personally but if he goes, I won't be bothered one bit by it.

Yeah lots of people want us to bend over backwards for a player. Yes I want martial to stay and realise his potential but not in such a way that we stop buying good players like Sanchez if they are available or by sacking managers simply for the player. Even Messi and Ronaldo having influence over managerial appointments isn’t something I like even though it’s understandable since they are the best in the world right now.

 

[Marcky411]

This is Martial's best season for us in terms of averages.

In his debut season, he got 11 goals and 4 assists in 2632 league minutes (one goal/assist every 175 minutes).

This season, he's got 9 goals and 5 assists in 1346 league minutes (one goal/assist every 96 minutes).

Mourinho has been masterful in getting the best out of him. Full credit to the manager for making Martial a better player.

Can't believe you can say something like that, I presume with a straight face.
Who has Jose improved as a player? That is also why Jose always wants the finished/proven product because he doesn't improve players. In actual fact to a degree(not blaming Jose completely) I would say he has held Martial back with his style of play and continually shunting him around in the team or dropping him to the bench.
If Utd do sell Martial, I am sure it will be another KDB, Lukaku, Salah story, except the mistake will be even bigger. If you look at his pace, his movement and dribbles on the ball, with the right coach he could be the next Neymar or maybe even more. That is also why when he was sold to Utd with all these crazy add-ons/bonuses included in his contract, because they knew he has all the potential to reach those heights.
If Jose showed half the faith he shows in Young, Fellaini, Lukaku, Mc Tominay and Pogba (up until the last 2 months), Martial's stats would be even higher.
I for one don't believe Jose will sell Martial but looking at the way he has been treated and is being treated at the moment, I could quite easily see Martial asking for a transfer. Should one of the big European clubs come along, he will be gone.

 

[RedStarUnited]

As much as I think Martial needs to improve, the right manager would get this guy to do miracles. The high output level we are seeing from Sane this season isnt just because the guy improved, he has also been very well coached.

And to all the “he is replaceplable” guys, who do you think is attainable and can come and give us more than Martial? We just signed Sanchez and he isnt doing it yet.

We dont play Martial enough and are notoriously shitty sellers so we will definetly get the bad end of any deal. We will then need to go and spend more to acquire a replacement of which I dont see many available.

 

[kouroux]

Can't believe you can say something like that, I presume with a straight face.
Who has Jose improved as a player? That is also why Jose always wants the finished/proven product because he doesn't improve players. In actual fact to a degree(not blaming Jose completely) I would say he has held Martial back with his style of play and continually shunting him around in the team or dropping him to the bench.
If Utd do sell Martial, I am sure it will be another KDB, Lukaku, Salah story, except the mistake will be even bigger. If you look at his pace, his movement and dribbles on the ball, with the right coach he could be the next Neymar or maybe even more. That is also why when he was sold to Utd with all these crazy add-ons/bonuses included in his contract, because they knew he has all the potential to reach those heights.
If Jose showed half the faith he shows in Young, Fellaini, Lukaku, Mc Tominay and Pogba (up until the last 2 months), Martial's stats would be even higher.
I for one don't believe Jose will sell Martial but looking at the way he has been treated and is being treated at the moment, I could quite easily see Martial asking for a transfer. Should one of the big European clubs come along, he will be gone.

Well look not further than Jesse Lingard ffs

Yeah lots of people want us to bend over backwards for a player. Yes I want martial to stay and realise his potential but not in such a way that we stop buying good players like Sanchez if they are available or by sacking managers simply for the player. Even Messi and Ronaldo having influence over managerial appointments isn’t something I like even though it’s understandable since they are the best in the world right now.

Some of our fans can be weirdos like that, they develop this weird love for certain players to the point of losing any sense. If we're talking about a player like DDG who is world class and absolutely vital I would understand the uproar that a transfer is even suggested.

 

[BenjaminP]

Yeah lots of people want us to bend over backwards for a player. Yes I want martial to stay and realise his potential but not in such a way that we stop buying good players like Sanchez if they are available or by sacking managers simply for the player. Even Messi and Ronaldo having influence over managerial appointments isn’t something I like even though it’s understandable since they are the best in the world right now.

Yes buying players like Sanchez is crucial, but with the expense of one of the brightest young star? I don't think so.
Sanchez is 30 and may decline as a player in a couple years. Martial is 22 and the sky is the limit. SAF shipped out Van Nistelrooy in order to utilize Ronaldo and Rooney full time. Imagine what our loss would be if we sold Ronaldo and kept Van Nistelrooy.

Which talent did we else have after Ronaldo, in terms of raw talent? We need to keep this rare young talented player if we want to succeed long term. I would hate to see another Pogba situation where we let go our bright talent, and he becomes world class elsewhere.

 

[stu_1992]

I'm a big fan of Martial, and I'd hate to see him leave and I do have that feeling he'd be great for a club where he is made the main man and given the confidence and freedom to play. He's definitely been harshly treated at times during his stay here, and I genuinely didn't think he would be dropped when Sanchez came in as he was playing some great stuff at that point. I really want him to play but if Sanchez starts to deliver, I don't see where Martial fits in. It's hard to justify from Martial's perspective why he'd actually stay in this situation.

 

[snk123]

I really want him to play but if Sanchez starts to deliver, I don't see where Martial fits in. It's hard to justify from Martial's perspective why he'd actually stay in this situation.

I'd like to see him play as a second striker in a 4-4-2 one day. That is his absolute gold position where he can roam around, doesn't need to track back and can link up with Lukaku. Sanchez can play anywhere and be equally as good (or bad recently)

 

[Escobar]

Let's play both, I just dont understand why we cant play Sanchez on the right or behind the striker.

 

[Lawman]

Yes buying players like Sanchez is crucial, but with the expense of one of the brightest young star? I don't think so.
Sanchez is 30 and may decline as a player in a couple years. Martial is 22 and the sky is the limit. SAF shipped out Van Nistelrooy in order to utilize Ronaldo and Rooney full time. Imagine what our loss would be if we sold Ronaldo and kept Van Nistelrooy.

Which talent did we else have after Ronaldo, in terms of raw talent? We need to keep this rare young talented player if we want to succeed long term. I would hate to see another Pogba situation where we let go our bright talent, and he becomes world class elsewhere.

I agree with your sentiments and opinion with this but I’m not sure Martial has merited such praise with his performances. I’m not sure what one is best between Rashford and Martial at this stage and it was clear cut at one point with Martial.

 

[Lowkey]

Losing Martial would really make me start to form a hatred for the club and Mourinho. The whole ethos of the club is to build superstars like Martial and Rashford. If i was Martial, i would leave. Way too good to be sitting on the bench, and i would also be mega pissed because he got benched when he was banging in goals for fun and got player of the month for us, then Sanchez came, and he immediately got moved to the right or got benched to accommodate for him. Meh, sad really.

 

[Lawman]

One of the most naturally gifted players I've seen at United in recent years, I would start him in every match because he has the ability to create a single play on his own to create/score a goal. I did not understand why United both Sanchez in light of the clear potential Martial has and has shown throughout his time here.

It would absolutely poor from United to sell him, for any price, and I can see many of the top clubs vying for his signature if United do decide to cash in on him.



I would say Martial is slightly more naturally talented than Sane. Sane has looked fantastic for City, but outside of that system he has struggled this season (for Germany) and I still think he is a bit one dimensional in where and how he can play. Martial can play at a very high level as a LW, cutting inside, or as a striker as well.

It's a shame Martial isn't getting as much faith from the manager as Sane is from Pep.

Think you’re seriously underrating Sane here. What a player this kid looks he’s a serious contender for Balon Dor in future years alongside Neymar Mbappe and Dembele of Barca.

 

[Hawks2008]

I agree. Losing him, Rashford, or any of our other young talents would be a blow and would raise some red flags about the manager. Not sure it warrants it's own thread though.

 

[prath92]

Yes buying players like Sanchez is crucial, but with the expense of one of the brightest young star? I don't think so.
Sanchez is 30 and may decline as a player in a couple years. Martial is 22 and the sky is the limit. SAF shipped out Van Nistelrooy in order to utilize Ronaldo and Rooney full time. Imagine what our loss would be if we sold Ronaldo and kept Van Nistelrooy.

Which talent did we else have after Ronaldo, in terms of raw talent? We need to keep this rare young talented player if we want to succeed long term. I would hate to see another Pogba situation where we let go our bright talent, and he becomes world class elsewhere.

We didn’t bend over backwards for Ronaldo or Rooney back then and shouldn’t do it for any youngster. It sets a bad precedence. SAF wouldn’t have done it in his time and neither should we. He is definitely talented yes but that doesn’t mean that we should cave in to every thing he wants. Tbh I’m not sure he will leave. He has no reason to frankly.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

I think Martial is a good player, but he is probably the most overrated player I have seen on this forum for some years. I wouldn't want to lose him, but if we did I don't think it would be the end of the world. His ceiling is a Nani type career IMO.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Mata just called him the French Ronaldo. Even Mata is getting swept up in the hype then i’m Not sure I see him leaving this summer, I think if he does go it would be our loss as there is something there, maybe doesn’t fit in with how Jose wants to play but the guy has moments of brilliance.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think Martial is a good player, but he is probably the most overrated player I have seen on this forum for some years. I wouldn't want to lose him, but if we did I don't think it would be the end of the world. His ceiling is a Nani type career IMO.

Yeah. Agree with this. And Nani was overrated by a redcafe fan club throughout his United career too. There’s something about players who can do flicks and tricks that makes fans lose their minds. Exact same themes too. Fergie allegedly ruined Nani’s career by playing him on the wrong flank. Always the managers fault when players like Nani/Martial are inflexible/underperform.

What’s this thread about anyway? Is he actually being sold? We should hold onto him if we can.