Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

I hope they're taking some family with them, especially the girlfriend. We know what he's capable of if things don't go his way. Being alone with an abuser* in a foreign country, without knowing the language or having any friends/social safety net is the opposite of what victims* of abuse should experience.

*Alleged, of course...

I'm assuming you share the same sincere concerns about a certain midfielder at Arsenal travelling abroad for CL away games, considering what he was accused of when he was abroad last summer? We've seen screenshots of his alleged messages that were circulating on social media, so we know what he's capable of and how dangerous he can be when left alone around a woman in a foreign country, right?

 

[BD]

Crafton doesn’t give a flying feck about Greenwood’s partner,

Ironic

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Ironic

The only thing that’s ironic is people claiming they care so deeply about his partner while knowingly hounding her out of the country as a new and young mother.

The whole saga is largely filled - on both sides with people who are solely vested with what they want themselves, especially those like Crafton and Riley.

 

[Rood]

Totally, like they wouldn't have had access to the evidence gathered by the police.

They acknowledge the lack of quality/insight in their own investigation at the start of the statement.

I'm grand with all that - it simply makes no sense at all to say all that and acknowledge you have no input from the victim or sight of all the evidence and then include the 'fact' that he is innocent of the offences.

You simply can't make both those things make sense.

As I understand it, once the CPS dropped the case, the club were duty bound to do their own investigation and announce their findings.
Obviously they can only base it on the information available and if she doesn't want to talk then there is nothing the club can do.

It's reported that there were 5 Man United staff members involved in the internal enquiry including 2 women.
Not clear if the full audio recording was available to the club, it's not even clear if the CPS had this but we would assume they did.

We do know that her family were spoken to though and apparently support the club statement about Greenwood being innocent. That's a big one for me - I find it difficult to believe that a mother, father, older sister all would keep quiet if something sinister had gone down.

At the same time I totally understand that people find it difficult to look past the initial photos and audio and ultimately unless the full audio or explanation is made public then that is probably going to remain the case.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

The only thing that’s ironic is people claiming they care so deeply about his partner while knowingly hounding her out of the country as a new and young mother.

The whole saga is largely filled - on both sides with people who are solely vested with what they want themselves, especially those like Crafton and Riley.

It is absolutely insane how you have managed to perform enough mental gymnastics to make people who don't want their club to give a platform to someone who beat and threatened to rape a woman a platform seem like the bad guys in any respect.

The only person who has done her wrong is Mason Greendwood, if she chooses to stick with him then I only hope for her and the child's sake that he seeks professional help and that he is kind and gentle towards them. ALL of the consequences of his actions are his responsibility.

 

[BD]

The only thing that’s ironic is people claiming they care so deeply about his partner while knowingly hounding her out of the country as a new and young mother.

The whole saga is largely filled - on both sides with people who are solely vested with what they want themselves, especially those like Crafton and Riley.

I guess I just don't buy your supposed care for the partner and child, and how independent that might be from your interest in the club.

To my eyes, Crafton has done nothing wrong - quite the opposite. And Riley too. It seems to me as though all the hate they're getting is just misplaced anger from people not getting what they want (i.e. Greenwood returning).

 

[Wumminator]

It is absolutely insane how you have managed to perform enough mental gymnastics to make people who don't want their club to give a platform to someone who beat and threatened to rape a woman a platform seem like the bad guys in any respect.

I think ultimately there are a few people here arguing in bad faith and making arguments that seem on the surface justifiable but fall apart once they are thought about.

 

[Kinsella]

I guess I just don't buy your supposed care for the partner and child, and how independent that might be from your interest in the club.

To my eyes, Crafton has done nothing wrong - quite the opposite. And Riley too. It seems to me as though all the hate they're getting is just misplaced anger from people not getting what they want (i.e. Greenwood returning).

I’d say you’re pretty much spot on.

 

[pascell]

The only thing that’s ironic is people claiming they care so deeply about his partner while knowingly hounding her out of the country as a new and young mother.

The whole saga is largely filled - on both sides with people who are solely vested with what they want themselves, especially those like Crafton and Riley.

Very ironic indeed, as this situation 'saga' came about because one person was solely vested with what they wanted themselves and didn't get the answer they wanted.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Types like Crafton need a Fergie to keep them in order.

Fergie’d sort the cnut right out and make it crystal clear to him where he stood - i.e you’re a fecking nobody and if you meddle in my club you’ll come to regret it.

As he would’ve done with Greenwood as well.

Yeah, I can't stand Crafton either. Type of journalist that only cares about himself.

 

[Redivy]

I think ultimately there are a few people here arguing in bad faith and making arguments that seem on the surface justifiable but fall apart once they are thought about.

Whilst I would’ve struggled to see Greenwood stay at the club, I do think what he is saying has some truth to it. If the allegations are true, she’s now in a more isolated environment. If they aren’t true, then she’s had to relocate with a newborn to unfamiliar surroundings.

We need to remember they’re 21 years old and new parents.

So I don’t know what the answer to all this is but I think the journalists need to just leave it alone, I wasn’t a fan of the athletic making a mess of this on both their podcast and articles when you’ve got a baby in the middle of this.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

So now people are mad at a journalist for journalisting and a celebrity supporter with an opinion? And they think the dastardly duo of Crafton and Reilly have hounded Greenwood out of the club?

Just wow

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Very ironic indeed, as this situation 'saga' came about because one person was solely vested with what they wanted themselves and didn't get the answer they wanted.

So much binary thinking. It’s fecking exhausting.

I’ve never excused Greenwood, I don’t think they were ‘playing bondage games’, I think he’s acted like a fecking cnut - but simultaneously, I also respect professionals who’ve seen and heard the entire audio and also more material on the issue and decided that there isn’t a case.

I believe Greenwood’s language is disgraceful in that recording, but I accept that it’s merely a snippet and whatever comes afterwards clearly shows there’s no case but also clearly isn’t something he wants released to the public…

If I had to guess, I would estimate that he continues talking in that way and then clearly relents while being rude and insulting to his partner - thus clearing him of the serious allegations, but also not something he’d ever want released, hence this strange situation of case dropped yet player not wanting to release proof.

Again - to be crystal clear, I think the proof that vindicates him of serious crime, also shows him to be acting in a deeply rude, unpleasant way.

I don’t excuse him - but equally I will not accuse him of charges that’ve been dropped by knowledgeable, experienced professionals.

Indeed, I would strongly suggest that for the sake of the caf people chill out on labelling him things that could end up causing legal issues.

There’s nothing manipulative about my views - who the feck have I got to manipulate on it ffs!? Cmon.

These are my views on the situation and I think they’re perfectly reasonable and quite probable tbh.

But people like Riley or Crafton - they don’t care about his partner, they’re hypocrites, both of them are full of fecking shit to the eyeballs mate.

Riley proudly and vocally supports a murderous campaign abroad (Israel) and a murderous government in the UK (current Tory regime) both of which have caused untold amounts of needless horror and suffering, the likes of which makes Greenwood look like a fecking furby.

And Crafton is a thirsty careerist hack trying to further his own end who doesn’t and won’t give anywhere approaching the same energy to other moral issues in football.

The two of them have rallied to drive that family out of the country, and since Utd were about to (wrongly) reinstate Greenwood it’s difficult to argue with that.

The best thing for the family would’ve been a full sale to another UK club - 6 fecking months ago.

Not being promised a return, chucked into a media storm and then turfed out at the last minute to another country.

 

[Antisocial]

Has there been any pushback from the Getafe fans to his signing, or the Spanish media?

 

[samlee86]

So much binary thinking. It’s fecking exhausting.

I’ve never excused Greenwood, I don’t think they were ‘playing bondage games’, I think he’s acted like a fecking cnut - but simultaneously, I also respect professionals who’ve seen and heard the entire audio and also more material on the issue and decided that there isn’t a case.

I believe Greenwood’s language is disgraceful in that recording, but I accept that it’s merely a snippet and whatever comes afterwards clearly shows there’s no case but also clearly isn’t something he wants released to the public…

If I had to guess, I would estimate that he continues talking in that way and then clearly relents while being rude and insulting to his partner - thus clearing him of the serious allegations, but also not something he’d ever want released, hence this strange situation of case dropped yet player not wanting to release proof.

Again - to be crystal clear, I think the proof that vindicates him of serious crime, also shows him to be acting in a deeply rude, unpleasant way.

I don’t excuse him - but equally I will not accuse him of charges that’ve been dropped by knowledgeable, experienced professionals.

Indeed, I would strongly suggest that for the sake of the caf people chill out on labelling him things that could end up causing legal issues.

There’s nothing manipulative about my views - who the feck have I got to manipulate on it ffs!? Cmon.

These are my views on the situation and I think they’re perfectly reasonable and quite probable tbh.

But people like Riley or Crafton - they don’t care about his partner, they’re hypocrites, both of them are full of fecking shit to the eyeballs mate.

Riley proudly and vocally supports a murderous campaign abroad (Israel) and a murderous government in the UK (current Tory regime) both of which have caused untold amounts of needless horror and suffering, the likes of which makes Greenwood look like a fecking furby.

And Crafton is a thirsty careerist hack trying to further his own end who doesn’t and won’t give anywhere approaching the same energy to other moral issues in football.

The two of them have rallied to drive that family out of the country, and since Utd were about to (wrongly) reinstate Greenwood it’s difficult to argue with that.

The best thing for the family would’ve been a full sale to another UK club - 6 fecking months ago.

Not being promised a return, chucked into a media storm and then turfed out at the last minute to another country.

You’re trying to talk sense to a mob thirsty for blood. Good luck with that.

Those same people are awfully quiet about United resigning Jonny Evan. Despite Evans going through the exact same thing.

Cant help but wonder why.

 

[maniak]

I'm assuming you share the same sincere concerns about a certain midfielder at Arsenal travelling abroad for CL away games, considering what he was accused of when he was abroad last summer? We've seen screenshots of his alleged messages that were circulating on social media, so we know what he's capable of and how dangerous he can be when left alone around a woman in a foreign country, right?

The fact you think someone's concern about the well being of an abuse victim is in any way related to which football team that person supports is really, really depressing.

 

[Redlambs]

Where's all this hounding? What has anyone actually done on here to affect this situation?

It's still blame shifting to people not even involved. "mob thirsty for blood, lynching, cancel culture" get a fecking grip. Both United and Greenwood themselves have told you who started this and they told you who made the decision.

Blaming everyone else is pathetic.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

You’re trying to talk sense to a mob thirsty for blood. Good luck with that.

Those same people are awfully quiet about United resigning Jonny Evan. Despite Evans going through the exact same thing.

Cant help but wonder why.

I have never seen a woman covered in blood and bruises as a result of Evans, I have also never heard a recording of him literally telling a woman he was going to rape her.

If he did either then feck him, he is a piece of scum and I hope he never plays a minute for Utd.

Stop the whataboutism nonsense.

 

[RedSky]

Where's all this hounding? What has anyone actually done on here to affect this situation?

It's still blame shifting to people not even involved. "mob thirsty for blood, lynching, cancel culture" get a fecking grip. Both United and Greenwood themselves have told you who started this and they told you who made the decision.

Blaming everyone else is pathetic.

There was a significant amount of hounding on twitter and social media is very important.

 

[George Owen]

Has there been any pushback from the Getafe fans to his signing, or the Spanish media?

Nope. They are quite excited.

They know he had personal issues back in England, but that he was absolved, so they are not gonna judge him again. Everybody deserves a chance at redemption.

All they want is for Mason to perform to help them save their season, plus to save his own reputation.

 

[Fridge chutney]

To my eyes, Crafton has done nothing wrong - quite the opposite. And Riley too. It seems to me as though all the hate they're getting is just misplaced anger from people not getting what they want (i.e. Greenwood returning).

Bingo. You've hit the nail firmly on the head.

 

[Redlambs]

There was a significant amount of hounding on twitter and social media is very important.

There was also a significant amount of support too. I'm not sure if people are in bubbles because of the following tab or what, but I was seeing craploads on both sides.

But there's a lot of talk about us on here. I saw a couple of people did that letter thing, but I'm interested in what power we actually have? Because it strikes me as strange we bitch and moan about all sorts of things and nothing happens, yet on this the club listen?

Someone like Riley though, I'll agree on that. And those politicians getting involved can feck right off.

 

[Stig]

You’re trying to talk sense to a mob thirsty for blood. Good luck with that.

Those same people are awfully quiet about United resigning Jonny Evan. Despite Evans going through the exact same thing.

Cant help but wonder why.

I had to go and look that up.

 

[samlee86]

I have never seen a woman covered in blood and bruises as a result of Evans, I have also never heard a recording of him literally telling a woman he was going to rape her.

If he did either then feck him, he is a piece of scum and I hope he never plays a minute for Utd.

Stop the whataboutism nonsense.

There were no smart phones in 2006. But there is a women who is adament that it happened. She filled a complaint with the police. If you think the women is lying then gosh that opens up a whole can of worms.

Ultimately, if you are against Greemwood playing for the club then you should be against Evans as well. I don't get the inconsistency.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

There were no smart phones in 2006. But there is a women who is adament that it happened. She filled a complaint with the police. If you think the women is lying then gosh that opens up a whole can of worms.

Ultimately, if you are against Greemwood playing for the club then you should be against Evans as well. I don't get the inconsistency.

Yes and that is a huge shame.

The point is you are painting a picture that people who are critical of Greenwood are accepting of abuse from others. I can't listen to Evans talking that way ect. If he did then he has my eternal contempt. I can't confirm that unfortunately due to a combination of time frame and a lot of victims making the totally reasonable choice to not share these things.

Either way you agree that hearing a man threaten to rape a woman is reprehensible and if we do have access to that insight then we should be completely against the person being given a platform by the club we love yes?

Or are you just taking part in whataboutism to argue against those who don't accept and defend Greenwood's behaviour?

 

[Yorke to Cole]

There were no smart phones in 2006. But there is a women who is adament that it happened. She filled a complaint with the police. If you think the women is lying then gosh that opens up a whole can of worms.

Ultimately, if you are against Greemwood playing for the club then you should be against Evans as well. I don't get the inconsistency.

There were no smart phones in 2006. But there is a women who is adament that it happened. She filled a complaint with the police. If you think the women is lying then gosh that opens up a whole can of worms.

Ultimately, if you are against Greemwood playing for the club then you should be against Evans as well. I don't get the inconsistency.

That is because you will not any consistency in this age of Internet and social media. Everything is reactionary and about people with more of a platform to gain attention in order to achieve what they want.

It is making a mockery of the justice system.

 

[Jam]

There were no smart phones in 2006. But there is a women who is adament that it happened. She filled a complaint with the police. If you think the women is lying then gosh that opens up a whole can of worms.

Ultimately, if you are against Greemwood playing for the club then you should be against Evans as well. I don't get the inconsistency.

• The iPhone came out in 2007, phones in 2006 were plenty capable
• Is she adamant it happened? There's nothing publicly available about the case
• There's hearsay from a friend of Evans but that isn't entirely reliable information
• Given how bloodthirsty the media is why wasn't more made of the case?

Evans' situation and the situation with Greenwood are materially different, this is weird whataboutism.

People are obviously having a stronger reaction to something that happened recently they have seen with their own eyes, than an accusation from 2006 that no-one knows anything about.

How do you feel about a reported rapist, or a reported domestic violence perpetrator playing for the team?

 

[Holocene]

There were no smart phones in 2006. But there is a women who is adament that it happened. She filled a complaint with the police. If you think the women is lying then gosh that opens up a whole can of worms.

Ultimately, if you are against Greemwood playing for the club then you should be against Evans as well. I don't get the inconsistency.

They have already explained the difference to you. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

 

[samlee86]

Yes and that is a huge shame.

The point is you are painting a picture that people who are critical of Greenwood are accepting of abuse from others. I can't listen to Evans talking that way ect. If he did then he has my eternal contempt. I can't confirm that unfortunately due to a combination of time frame and a lot of victims making the totally reasonable choice to not share these things.

Either way you agree that hearing a man threaten to rape a woman is reprehensible and if we do have access to that insight then we should be completely against the person being given a platform by the club we love yes?

Or are you just taking part in whataboutism to argue against those who don't accept and defend Greenwood's behaviour?

The numbers don’t lie. Zero posts on the cafe condemning the Evans signing. Thousands of posts wanting Greenwood to never play football again.

Where is that energy in the Jonny Evans thread. No celebrity outrage. No op-piece in the Athletic. Just acceptance.

All these people are implying Jonny Evans’ accuser is a liar and Saint Jonny would never do such a thing.

 

[Gasolin]

So much binary thinking. It’s fecking exhausting.

I’ve never excused Greenwood, I don’t think they were ‘playing bondage games’, I think he’s acted like a fecking cnut - but simultaneously, I also respect professionals who’ve seen and heard the entire audio and also more material on the issue and decided that there isn’t a case.

I believe Greenwood’s language is disgraceful in that recording, but I accept that it’s merely a snippet and whatever comes afterwards clearly shows there’s no case but also clearly isn’t something he wants released to the public…

If I had to guess, I would estimate that he continues talking in that way and then clearly relents while being rude and insulting to his partner - thus clearing him of the serious allegations, but also not something he’d ever want released, hence this strange situation of case dropped yet player not wanting to release proof.

Again - to be crystal clear, I think the proof that vindicates him of serious crime, also shows him to be acting in a deeply rude, unpleasant way.

I don’t excuse him - but equally I will not accuse him of charges that’ve been dropped by knowledgeable, experienced professionals.

Indeed, I would strongly suggest that for the sake of the caf people chill out on labelling him things that could end up causing legal issues.

There’s nothing manipulative about my views - who the feck have I got to manipulate on it ffs!? Cmon.

These are my views on the situation and I think they’re perfectly reasonable and quite probable tbh.

But people like Riley or Crafton - they don’t care about his partner, they’re hypocrites, both of them are full of fecking shit to the eyeballs mate.

Riley proudly and vocally supports a murderous campaign abroad (Israel) and a murderous government in the UK (current Tory regime) both of which have caused untold amounts of needless horror and suffering, the likes of which makes Greenwood look like a fecking furby.

And Crafton is a thirsty careerist hack trying to further his own end who doesn’t and won’t give anywhere approaching the same energy to other moral issues in football.

The two of them have rallied to drive that family out of the country, and since Utd were about to (wrongly) reinstate Greenwood it’s difficult to argue with that.

The best thing for the family would’ve been a full sale to another UK club - 6 fecking months ago.

Not being promised a return, chucked into a media storm and then turfed out at the last minute to another country.

Totally in line with that statement. He probably made mistakes, but not criminal mistakes. It's either bad for him or for her so that they don't want it to be released. It's likely for him but we don't know that.

The club should have been strong in their position if he is truly innocent despite those mistakes, as long as they're not criminal.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

The numbers don’t lie. Zero posts on the cafe condemning the Evans signing. Thousands of posts wanting Greenwood to never play football again.

Where is that energy in the Jonny Evans thread. No celebrity outrage. No op-piece in the Athletic. Just acceptance.

All these people are implying Jonny Evans’ accuser is a liar and Saint Jonny would never do such a thing.

Okay now this is descending into nonsense.

Differences:

1. No visual and audio evidence. I could provide 100 different examples of people being more responsive to what they can see and hear than what they can read.
2. One is very present and the other is nearly 2 decades ago.

I think this is incredibly obvious and I think I have my answer re your intentions. I wish you all the best and if I am wrong that is fine but I believe you are debating in bad faith.

I and I would imagine the vast majority of those who are happy Greenwood is gone do not want to see any men who abuse or threaten to rape women provided a platform at Man Utd. If Evans has abused a woman or threatened to rape her then feck him and I hope he never plays a minute for us as I have already said.

 

[TsuWave]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

he’s moved away from reporting to whatever it is he’s doing now

 

[Redlambs]

That is because you will not any consistency in this age of Internet and social media. Everything is reactionary and about people with more of a platform to gain attention in order to achieve what they want.

It is making a mockery of the justice system.

Ahh yes, the infallible justice system that suddenly means so much. The same system that failed in this case to deal with bail breaking and witness tampering in such a sensitive case, one where the Judge called out the GMP for it. The one that didn't find him guilty or not guilty, it just found there wasn't a strong case of winning due to recanting of the statement and witness withdrawal and possibly extra material that Greenwood himself would rather remain hidden.

You are everything you say here yourself. I'm all for opinions and people having sides, but let's not pretend one is any less hypocritical than the other.

 

[Gasolin]

The only way I can see him returning to play for United will be if he and his missus/alleged victim put some kind of tell all explanation out in an attempt to difuse hostility. Although I'm not sure that'd be possible given potential legal ramifications.

What would be the legal ramifications?

 

[Raoul]

Has there been any pushback from the Getafe fans to his signing, or the Spanish media?

There's a video of Getafe fans jubilantly dancing in the streets after hearing they got Greenwood.

 

[lex talionis]

We all have strong opinions about this matter, but at this point why not just be merciful and wish the best for all impacted parties?

 

[Raoul]

Totally in line with that statement. He probably made mistakes, but not criminal mistakes. It's either bad for him or for her so that they don't want it to be released. It's likely for him but we don't know that.

The club should have been strong in their position if he is truly innocent despite those mistakes, as long as they're not criminal.

Given that they're a couple with a child, I'm sure neither will be interested in publicly discussing anything going forward given that the legal case is over and United's own investigation publicly concluded that "Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged". At that point, there's really nothing left to be said that hasn't already been adjudicated by the legal system and his employer.

 

[Yorke to Cole]

Ahh yes, the infallible justice system that suddenly means so much. The same system that failed in this case to deal with bail breaking and witness tampering in such a sensitive case, one where the Judge called out the GMP for it. The one that didn't find him guilty or not guilty, it just found there wasn't a strong case of winning due to recanting of the statement and witness withdrawal and possibly extra material that Greenwood himself would rather remain hidden.

You are everything you say here yourself. I'm all for opinions and people having sides, but let's not pretend one is any less hypocritical than the other.

Those are systemic failures. It is like I said previously when people saying 1% conviction rate for sexual crimes. What has that got to do with Mason Greenwood?

To make the proper and correct changes, you have to get to the root of the problem. That means better safe guarding for complainants, making sure they comfortable reporting these crimes. Making sure that victim support, liason offers, mental health specialists are readily always available for them. If the police need more resources to investigate these crimes the government needs to provide more funding.

And quite frankly that is before you even get to the employment of certain police officers themselves. For someone who obviously knows the law, you do not need me to write in this post some of the high profile cases where police officers have been responsible for, or exploited crimes against women over the past 4 years.

 

[Partridge]

There were no smart phones in 2006. But there is a women who is adament that it happened. She filled a complaint with the police. If you think the women is lying then gosh that opens up a whole can of worms.

Ultimately, if you are against Greemwood playing for the club then you should be against Evans as well. I don't get the inconsistency.

there were a few smartphones in 2006. The nokia 7650 (from 2003), nokia 3650.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

there were a few smartphones in 2006. The nokia 7650 (from 2003), nokia 3650.

There were digital cameras all over the place years before. It is just silly mental gymnastics to excuse the constant whataboutism for those scratching and clawing to find a way to defend or pardon Greenwood's conduct. Not worth engaging with honestly.