Spot on. United should've gotten ahead of any media stories and simply and transparently made a statement as early as possible, which would've mitigated a lot of the media fueled narrative. They probably thought delaying would've been beneficial to keep the focus on other transfers and the US tour, but that was naive on their part.
Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
- Thread starter keithsingleton
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Honestly and maybe its me being cynical but if he came back and it coincided with United as a whole being in a more positive place in terms of results, transfers that have come in, takeover being completed etc then any backlash would die down. If he came back and the club as a whole continued in its current negative state then I could see him being brought back being constantly brought up.
The reality is people move on pretty quickly.
The reality is people move on pretty quickly.
Ah, MJ the Musical had grossed almost 160 million dollars since opening in 2021, 2 years AFTER leaving Neverland.
The moral outrage always dies down, no matter how much people love to pretend it won’t.
The moral outrage always dies down, no matter how much people love to pretend it won’t.
I think that has more to do with Michael Jackson being dead for 14 years.
The club having a backbone and banishing Greenwood is great management. They won’t go back on that for a few internet warriors.
Does being dead make paedophilia suddenly a non issue?
DJ’s and radio stations in loads of countries announced they would stop playing MJ after that documentary, but it didn’t take long before they changed their tunes and MJ was back on their radios wave.
The broadway production stopped in 2019 after Finding Neverland, but opened again “post COVID” when the outrage had died down again.
Loads in here were claiming no club in Italy, Spain, England, Germany or France would take him and even that was proven to be a ridiculous argument as there’s been very little backlash in Spain. A few months in and it’s all but erased for many.
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Does time?
I like the way you, I'm sure inadvertently, class being against paedophilla as "moral outrage" by the way.
The outrage to the "outrage" will never stop.
Also if you look at any time Jackson comes up either in here on other social media, there is always the charges and what he potentially did brought up.
It's wilfully myopic to suggest people just forget this stuff. What do you want them to do, bang on about it 24/7? Like this thread, a bunch were in the other one trying to say "oh it's gone quiet, must have been fake outrage!" when in reality literally nothing else happened so what do you lot want the "moral outragers" to talk about? And if they did keep going on about it, wouldn't that be worse in your eyes?
It's not a particularly nice conversation nor viewpoint anyway, sweeping things under the carpet essentially. "oh don't worry about it, people will forget" is morally dubious at best.
It's wilfully myopic to suggest people just forget this stuff. What do you want them to do, bang on about it 24/7? Like this thread, a bunch were in the other one trying to say "oh it's gone quiet, must have been fake outrage!" when in reality literally nothing else happened so what do you lot want the "moral outragers" to talk about? And if they did keep going on about it, wouldn't that be worse in your eyes?
It's not a particularly nice conversation nor viewpoint anyway, sweeping things under the carpet essentially. "oh don't worry about it, people will forget" is morally dubious at best.
What are you waffling about? No relevant club did take him nor want him
Or are you now suggesting that OMG LOADS were saying that clubs never would? Because that demonstrably untrue, there was plenty of talk about down the line and what would happen if he potentially came back to the prem or moved on after rebuilding.
Why would he come back here even if we wanted him? He's getting 1% of the stick he'd get in England over there. He will see it as he can stay there and get a fraction of the grief he'd get back home.
Not go to life story of a person suspected of such horrors and beef up his legacy and the coffers of the Jackson estate with closing in on 200m dollars whilst his accusers got zilch? Let his star fade as it deserves to?
Sadly appears so.
Moral outrage definition:
Moral outrage is justifiable anger, disgust, or frustration directed toward others who violate ethical values or standards.
I class his actions as disgusting, I class his attempt to justify much of his actions with “I didn’t have a childhood” as enraging and disgusting and I wouldn’t pay money to see his broadway life story. However 160m dollars says time & money (for those producing, sponsoring) makes more than enough people “forget”. And that crime is the fecking worst of the worst.
Don’t try twisting the argument here.
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Maybe I'm tired, but I'm not sure that sentence makes sense. What's that got to do with the discussion anyway?
You lot are in here saying that people forget, even going as far as claiming that's because they don't really care, and I'm saying they clearly don't forget. Whether or not you want them to, that's whatever, but this isn't going away you guys aren't going to get your wish and less backlash for a return.
? See above.
He says, whilst twisting how you lot are using it in here. Come on now, no way you are actually suggesting you and others put it in your posts in here as a positive
Sorry if you can’t understand a simple phrase mate, maybe concentrate more on that and less on fancy “myopic” words innit?He says, whilst twisting how you lot are using it in here. Come on now, no way you are actually suggesting you and others put it in your posts in here as a positive
“You lot”, what’s wrong with you man?
Anyone thinking that you lot would forget about this is fecking mental. I'm assuming he's talking about other people....
You lot will (both sides) still be at it when he's retiring.
Yeah, sums you and what you really think up though doesn't it? You can't stand by what you say and mean, so now you blatantly attempt to twist.
And how the hell is myopic a fancy word? The levels sometimes...
True.
BTW on a slightly related and lighthearted note, didn't you use the word "myopically" or similar in the general thread yesterday? I'm sure someone did, I'd wager it's something you say
Exactly.
People in general don’t really care enough is the point, when it’s a celebrity it’s just never close enough to home to continue the moral outrage.
If Mason had issues with a person’s sister.. that’d be one thing, but like with Jackson, it’s so abstract it eventually gets “forgotten” or sweeped under the rug, just as is already being shown in Spain. It took no time at all for any outrage over there to completely vanish, and they’ll be no huge hoo ha if he ends up at a top Spanish club next season.
Wouldn’t surprise me if he could move to England to much smaller outrage that 3 months down the line is swept under the rug also.
It’s quite sweet you think the outrage will continue for the rest of his career, but that is just beyond naive, in Spain it barely lasted a month. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m sure yourself and Wum and many other will always remain outraged, but you’ll be massively in the minority.
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I don't know, I still think it will be bigger than you think. The papers alone will use it to stoke up sales all day long, and the fans won't have it. I agree with those who say he probably wouldn't want it anyway. And if he's to continue his rehabilitation, is that necessarily best? Who knows, but I just don't see it myself.
But I'm still saying that even 10 years down the line he will still face resistance. We all know why this case stands out above all others, and without any real explanation this won't just go away. But note, me personally, I'm not saying he shouldn't I've said all along I don't care where he plays and if their life is back on track then I personally wouldn't boo or get involved with any campaigns, but all that will always be an issue over here now.
I tend to avoid fancy words lambs, this is redcafe after allBTW on a slightly related and lighthearted note, didn't you use the word "myopically" or similar in the general thread yesterday? I'm sure someone did, I'd wager it's something you say
Very fair.We obviously disagree here, a small minority will care enough, but they’ll eventually be drowned out.
“The fans won’t have it”, I don’t buy either, he’s a celeb, he’s not anyone’s mate and the majority will brush over it too with time.
Only time will tell I guess, but as with my MJ comparison, that Broadway show was absolutely DEAD IN THE WATER after Leaving Neverland, something no-one believed at that point could ever continue, yet just four years later and it’s an absolute phenomenon.
They won't be.
Greenwood isn't coming back, chief.
He's bad for business.
He shouldn't be coming back, anyway, he is a vile scumbag. But, he's bad for business and business is total.
No amount of alleged paedophilic actions via dead celebrities is going to change anything.
Find a better hill to die on.
Yes it was, I think we are at crossed wires here.
Obviously I'm not saying ALL with remember or even care, but enough clearly do. Greenwood won't be back at United, I honestly think people should come to terms with that, but I can see him in the prem somewhere down the line. But it will be remembered and it won't be easy to walk back in by any stretch is my point.
Jackson is obviously on another level and sums up what's wrong with hero worship on a much larger scale. But that's another discussion.
I think he’ll end up at a place like A. Madrid myself.
The only hill I’m dying on is the one that people in general simply don’t care enough about things to maintain outrage. We see it will Israel, we like to rage for while, then in periods of “calm” we say nothing, whilst Israel continue to breach international law after international law.
Maybe I’m just a cynic, but I just don’t see that continued outrage anywhere in life, and certainly not in a country where they continue to vote Tory after Tory after Tory. We watch a Saudi government kill a journo and yet have very little fight to them taking over a top Uk club, in fact, many welcomed it..
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I agree with the sentiment and overall thinking mate, I really do.
But despite all the things said, it has to be kept in mind that the Greenwood case is wildly different from all others because of what we've seen and heard. And it's one of ours. That's why I think you will be surprised if this comes up again the amount of backlash there will be. And if not, an ungodly amount of people seem to listen to Riley
(I know I shouldn't joke, but what else can you do!).Let them move on as a family that’s what they want..
away from United
away from United
Just offering the view that whilst the case stayed open for 10 months, not much investigating may have happened
If he truly didn’t do it, why no follow up charges brought against the girl?
Either way, they won’t call him back in January. He needs a full season under his belt
It’s the collective ”we”. Unless of course you’re still so outraged about the killing of Jamal Khashoggi that you’re regularly outside NUFC protesting, or that between 2010- Oct 2023 you were protesting outside your nearest Israeli embassy.
Or that you regularly protested, complained to your local MP, to the Premier League that Alonso was allowed to ply his trade at Chelsea after killing somebody.
If you were, fair play pal, though most likely you are also part of the collective “we”, a group, as Greta Thunberg will tell you, is massively in the majority. Most people just crack on, and feel there’s nothing much they can do, once the original protest is over there becomes a begrudging acceptance.
Thunberg is referring to a set problem (climate change) with her definition. She does not include the definition in games of internet whataboutery, with the obvious goal of accepting the abusive Mason Greenwood back at United.
If she does, well, she does her primary cause a major disservice.
There is no 'begrudging acceptance' of you wanting Mason Greenwood.
It's not time, the world, human nature or any other distraction you can conjure, it's just you wanting him back whilst trying, and failing, to justify it.
Why was she not charged of false accusations if he didn’t do it
He won't play for us again and won't be missed either. Something I never see commented anywhere but says it all about this arsehole: He played 4420 minutes for United in the league, the equivalent of 49 full games and he collected 4 assists in that time. The kid is a disgrace.
Those months we had Greenwood and Ronaldo together were probably the worst I've ever felt as a supporter. Our games consisted on them shooting as soon as they spotted the goalkeeper from 25 yards, and doing gestures to each other. I think they had like 5 shots per game and the rest of our attacking players had around 1, or 2 with luck. Then MG's attitude when it came to pressing and tracking back was despicable for such a young guy with energy and fresh legs. It's impossible to fix the rotten culture at United with people like that.
22 Premier League goals at his age was impressive, but not surprising if all he does is shooting like a maniac. Even if we consider him a natural goalscorer, that era of specialists who are good at one thing and mediocre at the rest (or simply not interested) was over many years ago. Unidimensional players like this guy with a natural talent but without any discipline nor intelligence belong to mid table teams these days, where they're allowed certain leeway both on and off the field. If they pop up with something brilliant once in a month everyone is delighted as they're used to permanent mediocrity.
The fact that he's playing for a club like Getafe is not an accident or bad luck, it was just a matter of time. The famous chapter only accelerated the process that was inevitable considering the lazy, shady and stupid nature of the guy. The same qualities that got him out the England NT. He doesn't have the fiber, mentally and character wise to play for a big club. Next summer he won't be our problem anymore.
Those months we had Greenwood and Ronaldo together were probably the worst I've ever felt as a supporter. Our games consisted on them shooting as soon as they spotted the goalkeeper from 25 yards, and doing gestures to each other. I think they had like 5 shots per game and the rest of our attacking players had around 1, or 2 with luck. Then MG's attitude when it came to pressing and tracking back was despicable for such a young guy with energy and fresh legs. It's impossible to fix the rotten culture at United with people like that.
22 Premier League goals at his age was impressive, but not surprising if all he does is shooting like a maniac. Even if we consider him a natural goalscorer, that era of specialists who are good at one thing and mediocre at the rest (or simply not interested) was over many years ago. Unidimensional players like this guy with a natural talent but without any discipline nor intelligence belong to mid table teams these days, where they're allowed certain leeway both on and off the field. If they pop up with something brilliant once in a month everyone is delighted as they're used to permanent mediocrity.
The fact that he's playing for a club like Getafe is not an accident or bad luck, it was just a matter of time. The famous chapter only accelerated the process that was inevitable considering the lazy, shady and stupid nature of the guy. The same qualities that got him out the England NT. He doesn't have the fiber, mentally and character wise to play for a big club. Next summer he won't be our problem anymore.
Correct me if I’m wrong (memories a little hazy), but wasn’t her Instagram hacked? She never actually pressed charges herself?
How can follow up charges be brought up against her based on the above?
And if they want to come back to their home town, and Mason wants to play for the team he's played for since he was 6 years old?
Do they need to make a statement or is a simple "Mason Greenwood is back from his loan" sufficient?
They have a child together don't they?
At what point do we as a collective say feck it, it's her choice if she wants to stay with him and just let the man play football again?
People do dumb shit every single day. We've had players in the Prem who killed people with their vehicles keep playing on.
We've had racist pricks who bite people.
90% of the players are uneducated dumb pricks who we celebrate and pay millions to watch them run.
We're all hypocrites.
I'd be the first one to jump out of my seat and scream Maaasooon if he was to come back and score a CL final winner.
An odious woman, with questionable political beliefs.I agree with the sentiment and overall thinking mate, I really do.
But despite all the things said, it has to be kept in mind that the Greenwood case is wildly different from all others because of what we've seen and heard. And it's one of ours. That's why I think you will be surprised if this comes up again the amount of backlash there will be. And if not, an ungodly amount of people seem to listen to Riley
Congratulations!
In over 35 years of watching football, be it through utterances or written sentences, I have never witnessed such bollocks as you have just written.
Well done.
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Possibly, but there are also other reasons.
Firstly, it is a potentially high profile case in which the Police will pursue.
We saw that with the tragic case of Caroline Flack. Her case exemplifies (from a high profile stand point) how complex domestic violence/ physical abuse within a relationship can be to examine in terms of whether it is momentary or ongoing abuse and whether this behaviour is likely to continue.
I never believed she should have been charged. It was a personal matter between the couple. Yes, the Police can go in and diffuse the situation by demanding that the two should be separated for a period of time until the situation has diffused somewhat and warn those involved.
Secondly, and rightly or wrongfully politics plays it part. This is the immediate aftermath of the disgusting murder of Sarah Everand. I know that was by a member of the Metropolitan Police, but all large constabularies are going to want to be seen to be taking active action towards crime where women are potentially victims.
We have seen that with racial murders, the most high profile being Stephen Lawrence. We have seen that where children have been victims of sexual abuse within institutions I,e Schools, The Catholic Church etc..Where the Police have been subject to failure in their duty to prevent these heinous crimes and then even secure justice once crime has been committed they are pressurised to act and make changes with how they approach such matters.
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