Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[mu4c_20le]

I genuinely believe Utd didn’t change their mind. I think Greenwood himself changed his mind after seeing the backlash. I reckon him and his family realised the scrutiny and pressure would be so intense it’s best for him to go elsewhere. Hence Greenwood and the club mutually agreed on him leaving.

This contradicts everything reported from the Athletic which cites concerns from sponsors and some members of staff.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Club can’t win. Everyone is so over-opinionated on matters they have no knowledge or experience in, but are experts at telling others exactly what they should do. This whole ‘the club has acted shamefully’ stuff from punters and journalists who are far less informed on the details is bullshit.

This crap about ‘they only did this because of the backlash’. Yea, so what? If there was no backlash then they would have reintegrated a non-convicted player who, from their statement, they clearly believe is not guilty? Well given those facts, of course they would! How have people decided the ‘right thing’ for the club to do was sack a player who the CPS did not prosecute and who they are satisfied did not commit the alleged offences following an internal investigation? So which part in that makes sacking him immediately the ‘right thing’ to do?

Adam Crafton and his band are over-entitled shit bags, symptomatic of this era where people just presume that they are entitled to be kept informed with what any organisation is doing and it needs to be done how and when they want it. All this ‘it’s taken too long’ bollocks. ‘Too long’ according to who? A random journalist who has never had to manage a legal and internal rape investigation of an employee? It’s not as of the club had Greenwood on the pitch while it was going on. Ot is their investigation and their employee and they conclude it when it is concluded. They work to their own timeline not Adam Crafton’s.

Accurate.

 

[Spaghetti]

No, it’s your reading & comprehension that are the issue.

Mine? You answered a question by asking how I’d come to an assumption. I made no assumptions, I only asked a question and you got needlessly ratty and personal.

 

[antk]

Yes.

But we’ve also now heard both the CPS and Utd state those recordings are ‘a small sample of a much longer recording that doesn’t paint the whole picture’.

You’re essentially saying, ‘I’m fine with Antony because partial evidence of his case hasn’t been leaked to me’.

Which as well as being slightly insane is really offensive to victims.

No I'm absolutely not and have no idea how you could infer this from my post.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Mine? You answered a question by asking how I’d come to an assumption. I made no assumptions, I only asked a question and you got needlessly ratty and personal.

Time to move on lad.

 

[Red in STL]

This forum was better when we weren’t allowed to talk about this….

You're not wrong

 

[Spaghetti]

Time to move on lad.

I already had fella. Wasn’t asking for a reply.

 

[Spaghetti]

He's going to get a second chance somewhere else and the club IS certainly helping him get it by the sounds of it, so that's a little unfair.

He just can't get a second chance at United because he fecked up (or 'made mistakes', whatever he did) and the club must be also be seen not to support those mistakes.

“We don’t think you did it, but a lot of people do and we don’t want to lose sponsors, so you can be someone else’s problem”.

I’m guessing (as we all are) that the mistakes he refers to are being a shitty boyfriend that made her want to lash out in the way she did.

 

[Yorke to Cole]

If people think other clubs won't go for him thier wrong. This will all be forgotten about in a couple of years time.

Gazza was all over the newspapers for beating his wife, and it didn't make one ounce of difference, there was still clubs going for him.

Greenwood will get a new club, bang a few goals in, and the media will forget all about it because its not Manchester United.

That is what I said as an example. We also have a statue of George Best outside our stadium. Eric Cantona jumped into the crowd and has sarcastically said the since "the only thing I regret is not killing him."

I firmly believe that this culture of binning people off is wrong. I think you have to get to the root of the issues at hand. I have family members who have suffered with anxiety that leads to anger issues and we have confronted it and seeked help the best we can.

I think the club should have gone down the rehabilitation route with this case and used that line a lot more and a lot sooner. As I said an outside barrister and professionals could have assisted with this in terms of making the club look like they are professionally investigating the matter a more objective manner.

 

[Stack]

“We don’t think you did it, but a lot of people do and we don’t want to lose sponsors, so you can be someone else’s problem”.

I’m guessing (as we all are) that the mistakes he refers to are being a shitty boyfriend that made her want to lash out in the way she did.

Seriously????????

 

[spiriticon]

“We don’t think you did it, but a lot of people do and we don’t want to lose sponsors, so you can be someone else’s problem”.

I’m guessing (as we all are) that the mistakes he refers to are being a shitty boyfriend that made her want to lash out in the way she did.

It's more "we don't think you did it, but we can't prove it, so it's never going to work"

I don't really want to guess what those 'mistakes' are. It could be small mistakes, it could be big mistakes. Nobody knows.

 

[Stack]

Time to ignore this thread, the bullshit is becoming too thick.

 

[mu4c_20le]

For anyone naive enough to think Mason would change his mind. Posted back in July.

You can believe me or not but….I done some consulting work with his family. He and they fully believe MG will play for United this coming season.

He is a very cocky person mind.

Credit to @RedStarUnited

 

[TheRedHearted]

Well they're not terminating him are they?

I've made my decision based on the information available. There's no explaining away the audio and none of the actions, statements or lack thereof of on anyone involved since the story broke has given me any reason to change my mind. It all fits so why you do think I don't need proof or backing?

Also nice way to try and call me a muppet with calling me one... Pretty pathetic by you.

I said if your opinion doesn’t need any backing, then you’re a muppet. The audio wasn’t enough to get him convicted so something has to be up. Agreed listening to it alone in a disgusting, but there’s backing that it was edited.

 

[redshaw]

Exactly. You can’t let the media set the narrative here.

United have imposed a sanction on themselves because of a journalist, no other club has ever been asked to do such a thing.

I actually wouldn’t have a problem with what commenced today & Antony following if found in any way culpable if I had seen examples of other clubs being held to anywhere near this standard previously. The fact he can play anywhere else but United & that is seen as a good solution makes no sense to me.

I don't get your take on Crafton, who's been banging on about all sorts of issues and barely anyone reads or reacts if they do. The backlash has been there all this time, I've read it on here and elsewhere, you mention Greenwood and the reaction is a fierce no for 18 months from a vocal and sizable chunk of the fanbase, feck all to do with Crafton or Riley.

Arnautovic was linked with us but due to the backlash he was dropped. That's not a Crafton creation, it's just how it is with a club like United and other large companies have to bow down as well to public pressure to remove people for opinions or previous acts that come to light innocent or not in the US and UK, I'm sure you seen it. No one cares in Italy about Arnautovic, I doubt anyone would've cared if he signed for a smaller club in England.

Like it or not United is treated differently due to size and exposure. I don't doubt MG will find a club no problem with little to no backlash, I can even see him staying in England or coming back to England soon. There's a lot of room for PR by him and his new club. Probably best to see another country away from the spotlight and who knows may not want to come back.

 

[Bastian]

I'd like a poll on this - we've not been able to speak about this for a year and a half, surely that's fine now?

a) pay up his contract
b) loan him with view to selling him later
c) loan him with view to reintegrating him later
d) sell him now
e) slowly bring him back
f) bring him in immediately

 

[Norman Brownbutter]

They know more about it than we do. If you assume his guilt based on the information that we have, it’s only because you want him to be guilty.

Even if he did do it, what’s happened to forgiveness, second chances and improvement. If it were my son, I’d want his employers and those around him to help him, not destroy him.

And what if it was your daughter?

As for forgiveness, thats something that comes after acceptance of ones wrong doing. Something MG has yet to do. It's been what, 2 years? And nothing out of him. What little he has said is just excuses and lawyer speak. It's kinda funny just how desperate people are for goals, that having someone that would do what is on that audio, makes them chat a lot of shit to excuse it. Theres audio and theres pictures. Even if he didn't actually rape her. The threat of rape and threat of violence is more than enough to put the cnut on a rocket and launch him at the fecking moon.

 

[united_99]

Nah I don’t believe it’s Mason‘s decision, it’s a club decision and he and his family agreed with it.
The mutual consent is a formality and sounds that all parties are ok with it.
If the club is not willing to go through all the trouble to bring him back (fan protests, media, staff resignations, etc.) then Mason will hardly insist on somehow still playing for United. He had no choice but to agree. And the club had no choice but to get rid.

 

[Red the Bear]

I don't get your take on Crafton, who's been banging on about all sorts of issues and barely anyone reads or reacts if they do. The backlash has been there all this time, I've read it on here and elsewhere, you mention Greenwood and the reaction is a fierce no for 18 months from a vocal and sizable chunk of the fanbase, feck all to do with Crafton or Riley.

Arnautovic was linked with us but due to the backlash he was dropped. That's not a Crafton creation, it's just how it is with a club like United and other large companies have to bow down as well to public pressure to remove people for opinions or previous acts that come to light innocent or not in the US and UK, I'm sure you seen it. No one cares in Italy about Arnautovic, I doubt anyone would've cared if he signed for a smaller club in England.

Like it or not United is treated differently due to size and exposure. I don't doubt MG will find a club no problem with little to no backlash, I can even see him staying in England or coming back to England soon. There's a lot of room for PR by him and his new club. Probably best to see another country away from the spotlight and who knows may not want to come back.

I felt the arnatouvich backlash had more to do with how the fans found him to be underwhelming than any personal views he might have held.

 

[Plant0x84]

I'd like a poll on this - we've not been able to speak about this for a year and a half, surely that's fine now?

a) pay up his contract
b) loan him with view to selling him later
c) loan him with view to reintegrating him later
d) sell him now
e) slowly bring him back
f) bring him in immediately

C, E, and F have been ruled out already. You’ll never see him for United again.

 

[jem]

I love dan gore - thats such an unfair comment. Mason greenwood is a young man before he's a footballer.

and yet I highly doubt that many of those pining for his return are doing so because they care about his development as a young man.

 

[sizzling sausages]

Apologies for being a bit graphic and explicit, but I feel I have to raise something which stands like an elephant in the room for me..

Has anybody considered whether there may have been an element of CNC (consensual non-consent) in Greenwood's relationship, or are people even aware of this type of of dynamic can exist in a healthy/happy relationship?

This was something that crossed my mind, but I haven't heard anybody address the possibility of so-called "rape-play" which is actually somewhat common (see article above) in today's younger generation. Sorry to be explicit but it can include choking and punching during sex, being tied up etc. It's a kink and both parties consent to the use of such force.

I recognise that a football forum probably isn't the best place to have mature or serious discussion on sex and relationships, but I think its important to consider this type of possibility when making assessments on Greenwood's guilt for domestic violence and assault.

I think it's relevant here as none of us know the full story of what was actually going on, and we can only make reasonable assumptions based on all scenarios.

It’s a totally valid point and I’m not sure a lot of people are aware of it’s existence.

It's not valid at all, it's completely idiotic.

So it was consensual but they don't tell anyone this and instead have his career ruined and have him forever be seen as a rapist and a woman beater by a lot of people? The charges only got dropped after a year, so did they finally decide then that it had went on long enough?

Christ above, this thread is a mess. And people questioned why the mods shut down discussion on this for so long.

 

[Yorke to Cole]

Club can’t win. Everyone is so over-opinionated on matters they have no knowledge or experience in, but are experts at telling others exactly what they should do. This whole ‘the club has acted shamefully’ stuff from punters and journalists who are far less informed on the details is bullshit.

This crap about ‘they only did this because of the backlash’. Yea, so what? If there was no backlash then they would have reintegrated a non-convicted player who, from their statement, they clearly believe is not guilty? Well given those facts, of course they would! How have people decided the ‘right thing’ for the club to do was sack a player who the CPS did not prosecute and who they are satisfied did not commit the alleged offences following an internal investigation? So which part in that makes sacking him immediately the ‘right thing’ to do?

Adam Crafton and his band are over-entitled shit bags, symptomatic of this era where people just presume that they are entitled to be kept informed with what any organisation is doing and it needs to be done how and when they want it. All this ‘it’s taken too long’ bollocks. ‘Too long’ according to who? A random journalist who has never had to manage a legal and internal rape investigation of an employee? It’s not as of the club had Greenwood on the pitch while it was going on. Ot is their investigation and their employee and they conclude it when it is concluded. They work to their own timeline not Adam Crafton’s.

I have today unsubscribed to The Athletic after this. Like Berbaclass alluded to, I did not like the podcast last week, particularly Carl Anka. I do not like the tone that has been adopted by them throughout this case. It feels like they have had to tow the line set by Crafton and Williamson (deputy editor).

In fact, as I am typing this, I feel that there has been an agenda against Greenwood. There was the article saying about previous bad behaviours during lockdowns. In that they same article they stated that Grenwood suggested that "Ronaldo was finished whilst still playing for Real Madrid." He is allowed an opinion.

An immediate poll given to female supporters, building an opinion against whilst an investigation was ongoing. Crafton and his fellow employees saw an opportunity and that is it.

I do still have respect for Ornstein as he only speaks when it counts. He does stir anything up.

 

[jem]

I’d also say that those who claim to care for Greenwood the person would be wise to ask themselves whether returning to the team, and all the scrutiny and toxicity that would come with it, would really be in the best interests of him and his family.

 

[Tom Cato]

They literally did not. Saying that there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction means that they don't think they would be able to prove the accusations beyond reasonable doubt, which is a very high bar and wildly different from saying that the accusations aren't true. It's so extremely different that it's very hard to believe you're not lying by saying that this is your understanding. It's a crazy interpretation.

A very likely possibility is that this new material is the withdrawal of witness statements, and/or recanting.

That is my entire point though isnt it. The acccusations cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Proven.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I'd like a poll on this - we've not been able to speak about this for a year and a half, surely that's fine now?

a) pay up his contract
b) loan him with view to selling him later
c) loan him with view to reintegrating him later
d) sell him now
e) slowly bring him back
f) bring him in immediately

Bit late for this mate.

He’s off.

 

[Chief123]

I'd like a poll on this - we've not been able to speak about this for a year and a half, surely that's fine now?

a) pay up his contract
b) loan him with view to selling him later
c) loan him with view to reintegrating him later
d) sell him now
e) slowly bring him back
f) bring him in immediately

Have you just woke up mate?

 

[izak]

Surely there's no way Greenwood thinks of his partner as nothing but evil, for ruining his Manutd career if truly he was innocent.

 

[klsv]

I'd like a poll on this - we've not been able to speak about this for a year and a half, surely that's fine now?

a) pay up his contract
b) loan him with view to selling him later
c) loan him with view to reintegrating him later
d) sell him now
e) slowly bring him back
f) bring him in immediately

There's been a lot of polls here and elsewhere. Most didn't want him here, few were unsure and the rest you can see crying "mob rule" here or dishing out abuse under our women''s team's social media posts. Latter two probably overlapping a bit seeing the amount of wankers here.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

They literally did not. Saying that there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction means that they don't think they would be able to prove the accusations beyond reasonable doubt, which is a very high bar and wildly different from saying that the accusations aren't true. It's so extremely different that it's very hard to believe you're not lying by saying that this is your understanding. It's a crazy interpretation.

A very likely possibility is that this new material is the withdrawal of witness statements, and/or recanting.

Utd has categorically stated that what the public has heard is a ‘small sample’ of a much longer recording and that it doesn’t paint the whole picture.

The club statement and Arnold’s open letter both also go out of their way to actually declare they believe him to be innocent.

The CPS, who have heard / seen even more than Utd have cited ‘new material coming to light’ when dropping all the charges.

I’m not saying ‘this means he’s innocent’, but equally, it’s wilfully ignorant to simply discount it and pretend this isn’t the case.

 

[JagUTD]

There's a whole universe of difference between having the right to a legal presumption of innocence and the prosecution deciding you didn't do something, which is what the previous poster said. At no point has the latter happened or even been implied to have happened.

Fair enough. Its not for the prosecution to decide a person's innocence or guilt.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Yeah, a couple of peeps pointed it out to me earlier. I thought they released him. Well, lucky them and unlucky us for still having 2 years on his Greenwood's contract.

Yes the profile difference between Mendy and Greenwood is big, and I accept that we are just a bigger club, but still, he never played for City again and left on the (very) quiet. They handled it rather well.

You realise Mendy is innocent?

 

[Bastian]

Have you just woke up mate?

C, E, and F have been ruled out already. You’ll never see him for United again.

Bit late for this mate.

He’s off.

I know a hazy decision has been made, but I'd like to know how the opinions on the Caf spread, anonymously probably the best gauge.

 

[Plant0x84]

I feel that there has been an agenda against Greenwood.

Can’t think why people, especially high profile highly visible people would have a problem with MG. Nope, not a clue.

 

[chb23]

Hopefully gone on loan and reassessed a year later.

Emotions are high right now for everyone.

 

[Plant0x84]

I know a hazy decision has been made, but I'd like to know how the opinions on the Caf spread, anonymously probably the best gauge.

Whichever option has the smallest financial impact on the club.

 

[redshaw]

I’d also say that those who claim to care for Greenwood the person would be wise to ask themselves whether returning to the team, and all the scrutiny and toxicity that would come with it, would really be in the best interests of him and his family.

I think the mixed reactions in the stadium by United fans is enough, there will some cheering if he scores but a lot silent, many booing and jeering him. Rival fans getting on him. United fans and the pressure if he plays poorly before all the scrutiny that comes with United.

Think about the Beckham reaction in the WC sending off, does that happen if Stuart Pearce is sent off, no it doesn't. Beckham and Neville brothers absolutely despised. United is everyone's business sadly. The uproar and silence when a keeper has collision playing for United and not. We've not challenged for a major trophy for 10 years. Who is top of the penalty awards, if it's not United no-one cares, if it's United then something must be done about it.

 

[klsv]

I have today unsubscribed to The Athletic after this. Like Berbaclass alluded to, I did not like the podcast last week, particularly Carl Anka. I do not like the tone that has been adopted by them throughout this case. It feels like they have had to tow the line set by Crafton and Williamson (deputy editor).

In fact, as I am typing this, I feel that there has been an agenda against Greenwood. There was the article saying about previous bad behaviours during lockdowns. In that they same article they stated that Grenwood suggested that "Ronaldo was finished whilst still playing for Real Madrid." He is allowed an opinion.

An immediate poll given to female supporters, building an opinion against whilst an investigation was ongoing. Crafton and his fellow employees saw an opportunity and that is it.

I do still have respect for Ornstein as he only speaks when it counts. He does stir anything up.

Maybe you should consider unsubscribing from RedCafe as well?

 

[TsuWave]

Club can’t win. Everyone is so over-opinionated on matters they have no knowledge or experience in, but are experts at telling others exactly what they should do. This whole ‘the club has acted shamefully’ stuff from punters and journalists who are far less informed on the details is bullshit.

This crap about ‘they only did this because of the backlash’. Yea, so what? If there was no backlash then they would have reintegrated a non-convicted player who, from their statement, they clearly believe is not guilty? Well given those facts, of course they would! How have people decided the ‘right thing’ for the club to do was sack a player who the CPS did not prosecute and who they are satisfied did not commit the alleged offences following an internal investigation? So which part in that makes sacking him immediately the ‘right thing’ to do?

Adam Crafton and his band are over-entitled shit bags, symptomatic of this era where people just presume that they are entitled to be kept informed with what any organisation is doing and it needs to be done how and when they want it. All this ‘it’s taken too long’ bollocks. ‘Too long’ according to who? A random journalist who has never had to manage a legal and internal rape investigation of an employee? It’s not as of the club had Greenwood on the pitch while it was going on. Ot is their investigation and their employee and they conclude it when it is concluded. They work to their own timeline not Adam Crafton’s.

I agree with the overall sentiment of this post - that's why I've advised against outrage farming in this thread. People seem really eager to take a pop at the club - but realistically what has the club done wrong here?

They've reportedly conducted an investigation that produced results they were satisfied with to reintegrate the player. They have also, according to some of the statements, worked closely with all parties involved - and cited evidence not in the public domain that allowed them to reach the conclusion the player wasn't guilty of what he was initially accused of. Sure, we can be skeptical about this but IIRC the CPS cited similar "new evidence". The club's assertion haven't happened in a vacuum. The club also concluded based on said investigation that they don't have grounds to terminate the player's contract.

Taking those things into account they apparently modelled ways/made preparations to reintegrate the player - reports then leaked regarding said preparations and public reaction made that position untenable.

I also don't get when people say "he should resume his career elsewhere, just not at United" - I think one of the few women posters here even asked what does that mean earlier in the thread. Like, what does that mean? This is a player that has been at United since he was 7 years old - academy players often spend more time at the club than with relatives - which means United has played a pivotal role in his formative years - and he wasn't even an adult during some of the alleged offences. If the club investigates and concludes him not guilty of what he was accused of - how is there a club better positioned to steer and guide him moving forward? I don't understand that stance

Ultimately, seems as though the decision taken ended up being the least divisive, but some seem really intent on putting the boot in.

 

[Yorke to Cole]

Can’t think why people, especially high profile highly visible people would have a problem with MG. Nope, not a clue.

The Athletic's stance was one of condemnation towards Greenwood. I did not say anyone else.