Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[Kinsella]

You already did.

No he didn’t.

 

[Skills]

There was a thread about what I would have liked to see, but it's now locked. Let me answer that here.

Honest communication, true signs of repentance. Within a week of charges being dropped, Mason should have held a presser in United colors to offer whatever explanation legally possible. Apologize to the family. Apologize to his team. To his club. To his manager. To the fans. He should have told us if he loved his new family, and how he'd never let any harm befall them anymore. He should have said that he's offering 80% of the wages he's collected while suspended to a DV charity. He should have been vulnerable in measures he's taking to be better - the therapy he's receiving, the social good he wishes to do. And that he'll continue to do that for the remainder of his contract. United should have then released a statement stating that despite MG's presser, they would conduct an internal investigation. That as folks raising him since he was a child, they take responsibility for his mistakes, and will conduct an internal review and overhaul of the cultural systems in place so this can never happen again. They should apologize to the family, to the players, to the fans.

A week later, they could have released somewhat similar statements they did now - that they couldn't find any evidence to hold him guilty. He should have been on the tour, with the team. Training separately. Coming on for 5 minutes, repeat. After every game he should have stayed with the fans, taking the abuse, but apologizing. A shirt that says sorry. Hands put together in repentance. Just persist, show us how much you wish you hadn't hurt your family and everyone else. Put in the minutes, the grunt work to earn your spot back. Once the season began, he should do the rounds every game, take the abuse. And stay back again after every game to apologize. If he can win his wife over, make a public appearance with her - let people know she has chosen to forgive him, that the most important person in this situation truly thinks he deserves a second chance. Continue donating your wages, continue putting in the social work, continue trying to be sincere in your apology.

None of this may work, and he may not be able to make it. But at least we'd have appreciated him trying to show repentance. And the club for allowing him to do so. Not this shit show with DVs being flagged as hostile, and ambiguous statements as damage control.

The way I would've done it is, would've been to just a petition on the United website.

Sign it, if you didn't want to see him play for the club again but each signature costs a minimum fee of £100. Once we get to 600,000 signatures (or the club recoups £60m) his contract gets terminated.

Time for the fans for once to put their money where their mouth is.

 

[norm87cro]

Christ its not a competition to get the worst post. But well done I guess.

Why mate? Im not defending him Im just not taking her word for granted. There is a difference and you should look it up

 

[NicolaSacco]

The roleplay argument doesn't make any sense. If it was just roleplay that surely would have been published the very next morning.

"It was a private sex-game that accidentally got published online."

Oh, nothing to see here - young kids having sex, let's spend a few weeks discussing young people's view on sex these days and the suitability of making such a serious topic into a sex-game.

Instead we have messages of support, statements about trying times, CPS involvement, a witness statement that was later retracted and a 7 month process in which no-one has said anything about role-playing.

If it was consensual roleplay this story very likely would have been dead on arrival.

Someone will probably claim that it was part of the role play to involve the police for a year-long investigation. There's no helping some people.

 

[golden_blunder]

What you need to understand here is that you actively relish his guilt, whereas Spaghetti clearly has an unbiased birds eye view of the whole situation. Plus his girlfriend liked role play, so that's pretty definitive and you should apologise and leave the site.

Role play does not make sense once the audio and pictures were released into the public sphere

 

[NicolaSacco]

Role play does not make sense once the audio and pictures were released into the public sphere

I know, i was (seemingly not very well) trying to highlight the absurdity of that defence.

 

[Wengerista]

The roleplay argument doesn't make any sense. If it was just roleplay that surely would have been published the very next morning.

"It was a private sex-game that accidentally got published online."

Oh, nothing to see here - young kids having sex, let's spend a few weeks discussing young people's view on sex these days and the suitability of making such a serious topic into a sex-game.

Instead we have messages of support, statements about trying times, CPS involvement, a witness statement that was later retracted and a 7 month process in which no-one has said anything about role-playing.

If it was consensual roleplay this story very likely would have been dead on arrival.

If there was any evidence to suggest this, or to mitigate the situation in any way at all, the Greenwood camp would surely be falling over themselves to release it? There's no longer a criminal investigation to interere with.

That's why I don't believe the ''partial evidence in the public domain'' excuse. This attempt to make the public believe that, seems like a way to salvage Greenwood's future career as much as possible, whether that's to retain value or just to help him out as some perverse sense of the oft-mention ''duty of care''

 

[MoskvaRed]

Clearly it does - otherwise Arnold would not be telling us that he is “satisfied that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with”.

Arnold is an accountant, not a criminal barrister conducting cross-examination. Also, it’s in the club’s interest to try to “clear” him so they can move him on more easily.

 

[golden_blunder]

I know, i was (seemingly not very well) trying to highlight the absurdity of that defence.

ah ok

 

[1988]

Am I right when saying charges weren't dropped because he was found innocent but because the victim became unwilling to corporate?

 

[UnitedSofa]

This thread has turned into a dumpster fire, reading some of the most abhorrent shite. Lock the thread and ban talk of it off the site.

 

[Matt Varnish]

In this case the victim was massively failed by the system which allowed greenwood to breach bail and contact her.

Objection: Supposition and Conjecture

 

[Smores]

I don't know, I think the likelihood is he did something we would not condone but was not criminal, which is not a good enough reason to destroy his career. That's just a guess though, maybe it's just highly personal to them and they don't want it released.

But really when in any other situation does anybody release evidence to show why somebody didn't do something. Why do we think we have the right to see it?

It's not about anyone's right for us to see it but the idea that there's a story out there that proves his innocence but they're keeping quiet has no credibility. Do people actually think they wouldn't like to remove the baggage from their life?

It's dumb and the only reason people are making the claim is clinging to any shred of argument to back up their own opinions.

 

[Eriku]

What happened to GifLord?

In case nobody’s piped up and answered for me: he got chucked for some really shit posts. I believe he was belittling the notion of people’s mental struggles in the Dele Alli thread. Well-deserved ban.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I don't know, I think the likelihood is he did something we would not condone but was not criminal, which is not a good enough reason to destroy his career. That's just a guess though, maybe it's just highly personal to them and they don't want it released.

But really when in any other situation does anybody release evidence to show why somebody didn't do something. Why do we think we have the right to see it?

We're not destroying his career, we are not stopping him from playing football elsewhere

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Not convince me no. I am not convinced either way, how could any of us be with the little information we have? We can only reflect on personal experience and our faith in mankind.

There have been lots of claims of role play, I’m sure you can Google it.

Don't you think the audio was damning?

What's your defense of the audio? I could never get past it once I heard it the 1st time.

 

[Spaghetti]

What part does leaking the “evidence” online play? For me this is where this logic breaks down. They surely would have known that once seen, his career would be in jeopardy never mind possible police action.

Yeah I get that and it is harder to think of justifications.

There was 1 that said the “victim” didn’t post the audios and pictures, but her account was hacked. I don’t believe this one.

More plausible (and I’m offering this as a possible answer to your question, I’m not making excuses or necessarily believe it) is that she posted them after an argument. Remember that they were posted them 5 months after the alleged incident. It could be seen as strange that she managed to record something so long in secret without him noticing, which could suggest that he knew it was being recorded.

Again, I would like to reiterate that I don’t necessarily believe this to be the case, but it could be a possible

 

[Oranges038]

I don't know, I think the likelihood is he did something we would not condone but was not criminal, which is not a good enough reason to destroy his career. That's just a guess though, maybe it's just highly personal to them and they don't want it released.

But really when in any other situation does anybody release evidence to show why somebody didn't do something. Why do we think we have the right to see it?

He destroyed his own career at Utd, through his own actions.

No one else is to blame but him.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I don't know, I think the likelihood is he did something we would not condone but was not criminal, which is not a good enough reason to destroy his career. That's just a guess though, maybe it's just highly personal to them and they don't want it released.

But really when in any other situation does anybody release evidence to show why somebody didn't do something. Why do we think we have the right to see it?

He can play elsewhere, and he has no one to blame but himself for the damage he's done to his career solely.

If he wasn't a piece of ****, he could have kept developing into the world class player many of us thought he'd become.

 

[The Boy]

Well its simple mate. If a person is abusive to you its a break up. You do not continue the relationship. Greenwood is obviously stupid but she is not Tina Turner by any means.

This has to be the most stupid and ignorant post in a thread littered with bad posts

 

[FrankDrebin]

Destroy his career ? Eh, he can play kick-ball for some other team.

 

[Spaghetti]

Don't you think the audio was damning?

What's your defense of the audio? I could never get past it once I heard it the 1st time.

In my life, I have done role play loads of times, and I’ve sexually abused 0 women. I’m not saying everyone is the same, and I fully understand why some people might not see an excuse for it.

 

[adexkola]

This thread has turned into a dumpster fire, reading some of the most abhorrent shite. Lock the thread and ban talk of it off the site.

Why?

Alternately you could just ignore the thread and move on with your life.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

I don't know, I think the likelihood is he did something we would not condone but was not criminal, which is not a good enough reason to destroy his career. That's just a guess though, maybe it's just highly personal to them and they don't want it released.

But really when in any other situation does anybody release evidence to show why somebody didn't do something. Why do we think we have the right to see it?

Football is a highly emotive support, you create a bond with your team and support them passionately. It won't be possible to support greenwood on the pitch when he is not cleared in our eyes. If he was a backroom accountant, I doubt any one would have cared.

 

[Spaghetti]

You have repeatedly stated that people who want him gone must 'want him to be guilty'. It's rubbish, and means you don't get to give advice to other posters on their conduct.

I know there is zero chance you will acknowledge this though.

Wrong. Again. I only said this about people who invent negative things about the case.

I totally understand why some people want him gone. Even some people who don’t believe he is guilty want him gone because of the drama that follows the case. It’s understandable.

 

[Bruno8]

If there was any evidence to suggest this, or to mitigate the situation in any way at all, the Greenwood camp would surely be falling over themselves to release it? There's no longer a criminal investigation to interere with.

That's why I don't believe the ''partial evidence in the public domain'' excuse. This attempt to make the public believe that, seems like a way to salvage Greenwood's future career as much as possible, whether that's to retain value or just to help him out as some perverse sense of the oft-mention ''duty of care''

The club cannot release that additional evidence without compromising the anonymity of the alleged victim and her wish for privacy
It's a catch 22. The Athletic reports that her mother did not wish to dispute the findings of the internal investigation. Even CPS said new evidence came to light but dod not disclose what it was.

So we will.never know the full story until we somehow get to know "the new evidence the CPS received " and the " evidence and context missing from public domain " as per internal investigation.

I think it's fair to say even if the case had gone to trial and Mason was found not guilty it was never going to change people's opinions.

So.its probably best he plays for a new club

 

[The Boy]

Some people will hope he’s guilty, and others will hope he isn’t.

Pretty sure hope is the wrong word here.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

In my life, I have done role play loads of times, and I’ve sexually abused 0 women. I’m not saying everyone is the same, and I fully understand why some people might not see an excuse for it.

You think the audio leaked was indicative of role play potentially?

Seriously?

 

[Spaghetti]

Pretty sure hope is the wrong word here.

If people are making things up and assuming negatives, it’s seems like they want him to be guilty. Perhaps I’ve misunderstood but I can’t see any other reason for it.

 

[Spaghetti]

You think the audio leaked was indicative of role play potentially?

Seriously?

Yeah of course. It sounds like it to me.

 

[Vault Dweller]

This thread has turned into a dumpster fire, reading some of the most abhorrent shite. Lock the thread and ban talk of it off the site.

Agreed.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Yeah of course. It sounds like it to me.

So you're not even taking the angle that it could be role-play, but you're basically adamant it had to have been role-play?

Wow. Just wow. Not sure what to say.

 

[antk]

This thread has turned into a dumpster fire, reading some of the most abhorrent shite. Lock the thread and ban talk of it off the site.

I've been putting it on Ignore on and off to stay sane, but those conversations need to happen somewhere if we want things to change in the long run. This may not be the best place but it's certainly not the worst.

 

[The Boy]

If people are making things up and assuming negatives, it’s seems like they want him to be guilty. Perhaps I’ve misunderstood but I can’t see any other reason for it.

People having an opinion, having seen the stuff released online is not making stuff up, it's making their minds up in light of what they know. I would be amazed if anyone on the caf actually wanted him to be guilty.

 

[Lee565]

Seeing as the club, the team and the sponsors were against Greenwood coming back I'm going to assume none of these mentioned will stay around if qatar take us over or that they will never be associated with the Saudi league in the near future........

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

If people are making things up and assuming negatives, it’s seems like they want him to be guilty. Perhaps I’ve misunderstood but I can’t see any other reason for it.

Why would anyone want him to be guilty though?

 

[Giggsyking]

No he didn’t.

He made an observation and made it sound like a fact when he said "everybody noticed" then to end his sentence with "I am not going to generelise". Read his statement again.

 

[flappyjay]

Well its simple mate. If a person is abusive to you its a break up. You do not continue the relationship. Greenwood is obviously stupid but she is not Tina Turner by any means.

All you have done here is show everyone how ignorant you are to domestic abuse issues. I am not saying you should be out there saving victims but atleast know what's happening in the world around you.

 

[Spaghetti]

So you're not even taking the angle that it could be role-play, but you're basically adamant it had to have been role-play?

Wow. Just wow. Not sure what to say.

Nope, not what I said.

 

[NicolaSacco]

This thread has turned into a dumpster fire, reading some of the most abhorrent shite. Lock the thread and ban talk of it off the site.

I think it was probably right that it was open for discussion, but we've likely reached a point where almost everyone who wants to has stated their opinions, and read others' views. So yeah, I agree, this thread (and this issue) would benefit from having an end-point.