He wasnt found innocent by anyone. Charges where dropped. Two very different things.
Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
- Thread starter keithsingleton
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I would imagine an independent panel would first have to be appointed & vetted or the investigation wouldn’t be independent. I’m no expert, but my common sense tells me just to appoint a panel will probably take longer than the whole internal investigation took. Maybe there’s a poster who’s an expert on these kind of things?
So frustrating when the opinion of celebrity fans are given weight by the media. Why does it matter what Rachel Riley thinks about how the club has handled this situation?
I don't know when the investigation started but assuming that it was around February 2022 then based on similar situations that I have seen in US sport the private investigation would have been concluded a long time ago.
Will people stop saying that he would come straight back in and be a super striker!?
He’s 21 and lost nearly 2 years of his development. That is huge. There’s no guarantee he’s going to be the same player anymore.
and that’s without looking at posts that rate his supposed football ability above morals.
I think you are trying to make something out of nothing. His original post did also include Athletic journalists, which I'm sure are male? He also did say he objected because of her past behaviours not because she was a women (after you brought her gender into it)....so the only person who actually brought her gender into the argument was you....
I've asked earlier in the thread, but what exactly has the club done/handled wrong?
They've reportedly conducted an investigation that produced results they were satisfied with to reintegrate the player. They have also, according to some of the statements, worked closely with all parties involved (the victim chose not to attend sessions with the club but her parents did, namely the mother, and the victim was aware of the process) - and cited evidence not in the public domain that allowed them to reach the conclusion the player wasn't guilty of what he was initially accused of. Sure, we can be skeptical about this, but IIRC the CPS cited similar "new material" - which means the club's assertion hasn't happened in a vacuum. The club also concluded based on said investigation that they didn't have grounds to terminate the player's contract - The Athletic said as much.
Taking those things into account they apparently modelled ways/made preparations to reintegrate the player - with the wishes of the victim taken into account - reports then leaked regarding said preparations and public reaction made that position untenable. As a result, they're parting ways with the player but committed to support the transition period to help this young family.
The only thing I can think of that could have been done better was potentially having the investigation conducted by an independent party - is this what people are referring to when they say it was handled badly, etc?
Rache Riley really is not the hill to die on. Though I don’t think she was wrong in voicing her concerns initially - now that the decision has been made it’s just feels a bit like putting the boot in
It kills me when people try to use her as a paragon of anything good
Well I’m no expert, but at my employer in my industry in the Netherlands I think you’re talking 9 months at least just to set up an independent arbitration panel if it were to ever to get that far.
How is that Manchester United's fault though? Why do people expect a football club to be the arbiters of justice here? Again: I agree that Mason Greenwood is probably guilty but you, I, and everyone IN this thread clearly aren't privy to every detail in this case or else the CPS surely would have prosecuted.
To quote the CPS:
Now as to what that material was I've not seen but I'd be loathe to dare guess, nor feel like it's Manchester United's duty to share whatever it was. Clearly it was enough that they dared to navigate this absolute shitstorm, but somehow have ended up being the ones most covered IN shit despite the quotes above.A CPS spokesperson said:
It's innocent until proven guilty and trial by social media as per the CPS guidelines themselves present some serious challenges to the justice system, so it can't be easy for them, but I feel like they absolutely would have prosecuted but for whatever material that was.
Cliche and nonsense after cliche and nonsense. All of which has been discussed to death, most of it rightly pulled up.
You'd think people would at least read a bit of the thread before jumping into such a topic
One thing that the club has clearly done wrong is the leaking of information to the media before the results of the investigation was announced.
Now there are two scenarios I can see here:
1. The club deliberately let certain information leak out there to ascertain public reaction to influence the decision
2. It was leaked by someone within the club without the knowledge of those higher up
Either way it shows a lack of leadership - one suggesting a dithering approach and the other pointing to an inability to run a tight ship.
This is an unprecedented situation, I can't think of another club where a young high profile player was involved in something like this, with the pictures and audio being released online before any police investigation had been brought. Most times, you hear about x player and allegations, or there are some screenshots of messages. But never any real hard physical evidence released to the wider public. It quickly gets ignored or forgotten about once the police don't get involved or follow up with charges. Like that Arsenal player, plus many others who never ended up in court.
It appeared based on some information that was leaked last week that the plan had been reintegration. Now that may or may not have been the actual plan, it may have been just one plan or an assessment of how it might be worked. But that's the plan that people assumed Utd were going with. And the wider media and other people and groups got hung up on it.
Fast forward a few days, the expected plan from last week is not what Utd have gone with. Whether that has been as a result of the reaction or not, we don't know. But what we do know is that they have made the decision that the majority were advocating for. The right one as far as I'm concerned. But, that's still not enough.
Without any or all of the information those who made the decision have been privy to. People still have to try and imply there was massive amounts of incompetence and stupidy on behalf of those at the club during the whole process. Which was a very difficult one to navigate.
The end result is what they wanted all along, and now they have got it they still aren't happy, because it wasn't what they were prepared for.
Why it took so long, the wording in the statements, calls for them to show the extra evidence etc.
So maybe, instead of going overboard with the negative criticism of the club and how they handled this, maybe just maybe they could appreciate that they know about 1% of what actually happened and how the process was handled. Accept that this was an incredibly difficult process to manage, mistakes were made, but the right decision club was made in the end.
What was discussed to death? He is not guilty until proven in a court of law. Innocent until proven guilty obviously doesn't matter when the social media warriors have their say.Cliche and nonsense after cliche and nonsense. All of which has been discussed to death, most of it rightly pulled up.
You'd think people would at least read a bit of the thread before jumping into such a topic
Quality control
Hmm, I've just seen a Rachel Riley video in the Guardian re United 'gaslighting' over the Greenwood affair. Annoyingly, she is a blond, articulate, and far too hot to ever be considered wrong on any subject.
What a stupid post
Who is Mason?
Yep, she has said some truly daft things to say the least. But my thoughts on her as a person don't mean I can't wonder why she's now the subject of much more ire than the man who started this whole thing.
Literally every thing you wrote. As I said, try reading.
"social media warriors"...yeah, you keep blaming everyone else but the person who started this. You know, the one who has told you in his own words that his mistakes led to this.
And another one crawls out. What's her hair colour, gender and looks got to do with anything?
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Do you pass every issue through this logic I wonder? If not why?
No one here is saying he should receive a criminal punishment without going through a court of law which is where your point falls down.
We have civil courts and employment law and just general opinion that all judge outside a criminal court context, there's nothing unusual here.
He doesn't have to be found guilty of a crime to lose his job. No one here does either. He doesn't have to have been found guilty of a crime for people to make a judgment and treatment him accordingly which again is standard and applies to all.
Aren't you considering that she is wrong in spite of all the attributes you listed?
There'd be a bit of a spin up period but no you lose his talent with a 2 year break.
To be fair in this case Riley’s sex does matter because she’s fighting the cause of female victims of domestic abuse. However, her opinions should be respected irrespective of her gender.
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Can Rachel Riley and Adam Crafton please just feck off now? It's time like these you wish Fergie was back where he gave the BBC the cold shoulder for 10(?) years as they were overstepping their mark. We should do the same with The Athletic.
It really is an odd world where coming out of the Greenwood maelstrom, the scapegoat is none other than Rachel Riley
The issue is without an explanation of the audio and images, it is impossible to support Greenwood on the pitch and cheer him on as a fan. So the right decision was made in that regard.
I'm trying, but it goes against my instincts...
(I would have loved to see Mason back playing for us - he's just what we need right now on the pitch, but it's not going to happen for the foreseeable future)
And for a lot of people she has the exact opposite effect. She can have the most lukewarm take on anything and some people will still feel the need to point out her gender and looks.
People are acting as if he was a prime Van Basten when he was removed from the squad. Almost 2 years away from football, for a player in his early development is a very long time. I doubt he'll ever get back to the absolute top of football.
The fight against DV isn't about gender. Unless she has specifically said she only cares about women victims?
And Simon Cowell. Don't forget his good name has been thrown in!It really is an odd world where coming out of the Greenwood maelstrom, the scapegoat is none other than Rachel Riley
These people enjoy finding scapegoats more than anything.
Care to elaborate?
Well said. The club and the CPS came to almost similar conclusion after new evidence came to their attention.
The media are not helping because they are focusing on one reason why the CPS dropped the charges ( withdrawal of witnesses) and they never/rarely mention that new evidence was presented to CPS which impacted on their case. No one ever demanded they release all info
United listened to the long recordings and got explanations of the context in which the conversations happened.
Whilst it was right to let MG go the club did well to first do and internal disciplinary hearing before making a decision. Too many things to criticise the Club for but on this complicated issue they took reasonable steps to have a fair hearing.
What are you trying? You clearly suggested that she is wrong and that the only reason others aren't stating it is due to the list of characteristics you shared.
Is she wrong or correct?
Well she's an Oxford graduate with a Masters in mathematics so I imagine "intelligent" is also one of her traits.
Compare that to some of the posters in here saying things like "Mason proven not gilty in court of law so maybe he vicktum in all dis?" and she could accuse Arnold of being a witch and it wouldn't be nearly as daft. Unless the comparisons with the fecking witch trials of Salem start up again...
Should be pinned to the thread so that it appears at the top of every page.
The amount of people repeating the same erroneous thing is ridiculous.
You have forgotten something here. "Innocent until proven guilty". Mason Greenwood was not “convicted in court”. He was convicted by the court of public opinion. The boy made a mistake and apologized for it, but the extent is only being assumed by social media warriors. None of us know what actually happened and probably never will.
United completely bottled this situation. The best thing they could've done is as soon as the charges were dropped by CPS, United should've released him straight away. It was clear from the moment the allegations were made that Mason Greenwood would never be able to play for Man Utd again.
I think you’re wrong to assume that he can be back at that level. It’s a big break. Time will tell
Exactly my thought. They shouldn't give a toss if a celebrity stops supporting them. Why is a countdown presenter given so much prominence? Again, it comes down to the decision being all about perception.
Half of our Tory government are Oxford educated. Would you call them intelligent?
There is nothing positive about making up explanations for domestic/sexual abuse, it is creepy. Especially this one.
100% agree with this. To delay and delay the decision, attempt to bring him back in the squad, then in less than a few days u-turn the decision because of some reaction on social media is extremely poor. They may as well released him immediately after charges were dropped due to brand damage or something.
It would have been easier if he was out of contract like Mendy, but even Gylfi Sigurðsson found a club.
I don’t think his case not being acquitted makes a huge difference, he’s a free man regardless.
It doesnt matter. In the terms of pure IQ Bebestation destroys hers. We have so many doctors on caf.