Greenwood can't give them a highly paid job in the future.
Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
- Thread starter keithsingleton
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The Guardian reported the following:
A court heard last October how a central plank in the inquiry had collapsed only four months after Greenwood was arrested.
It is understood that police and prosecutors initially decided to continue with the case because of the significant level of public interest, given Greenwood’s high profile and the seriousness of the allegations.
But a review of the case by CPS lawyers has concluded that there was no realistic prospect of conviction given the collapse of the case.
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news...ors-drop-alleged-case-against-mason-greenwood
He’s also forgetting or ignoring that while we are a very public club, this is also a HR issue and Greenwood is protected by all the same employee rights and laws as anyone else in this country. If Greenwood and his partner have asked for the results of the internal investigation not to be published to the public then the club’s hands are tied.
I said a few days ago, I think the evidence they have is likely based on testimony from both Greenwood and his partner (the alleged victim). As he’s employed by United, I don’t see how they can just go “we don’t believe either of you” and make their own conclusions, especially if a criminal case already broke down because of that same reason.
The club are then in an impossible position. They have to trust their employee and his partners word even though the the public for the most part can see through it. It’s easy for the public to call Greenwood out on it, it’s very difficult for the club to without facing legal action from that employee and worse of all for the club, they can’t admit this position either, they just have to go with it.
That’s real movie type stuff.
“I will defend the honor of my wife no matter what. Even if the whole world thinks I am an abuser, I will protect her so that no one will know. Even if they think I’m a monster, she knows the truth”
I should really duck my head out of this thread, but I can't believe I refreshed it today and the first thing I read was someone still saying he 'made a mistake.'
If that's the kind of thing you consider to be a mistake, I've got real concerns about you as a person.
If that's the kind of thing you consider to be a mistake, I've got real concerns about you as a person.
Being good at maths and going to Oxford doesn’t mean you’re intelligent in all aspects of life. Most people I know that are only going at math are
Right but many clubs won't and don't care, there is already interest in him. As long as he's not guilty the audio and images won't matter to many, there are a lot of fans who think he's the victim of something. Football is not the moral sport that many try to make it out to be.
Wasn't it reported that they talked to Greenwood and the girl's mum only?
Absolutely. Though I don't think he's forgetting that and saying any different, he's saying about the them expecting the people just to blindly accept it.
And I've said the same thing in here, it was incredibly stupid of them to just put out that initial statement and not expect blowback. Whether they could or couldn't talk specifics, surely they could have been on a charm offensive and explained more about why they wouldn't release any exact information. Because the general public by and large wouldn't immediately understand who's hands are tied and why.
He wasn't found "not guilty" though, that's the whole issue. There's a lot of grey area and that's enough for clubs to want away from the mess.
Let's not forget, he wasn't a stellar character up to this point with his behaviour either.
And I believe they said the mum didn't give them any information, only didn't refute his version of events.
I think public pressure plays a bigger role in modern society than it should. It’s why in the vast majority of cases it’s much better for justice to be served in a legal setting, outside of the public eye. Also as you’ve clearly alluded to it’s not just public opinion on boards like this, it’s politicians wading in, celebrities giving their opinions, and perhaps more importantly key sponsors holding all the cards. That side of it just doesn’t sit right with me, irrespective of this individual case.
No because like it or not we do have a court system where the presumption of innocence sits with the defendant. (I’m not saying he’s innocent before that is brought back up!). It’s far too simplistic to look at rape statistics, see the low percentage of conviction and just decide well I’ll assume everyone is guilty. That attitude is genuinely scary and should be for the vast majority of people, because one allegation would be enough to ruin you. I’ve got no problem by the way with someone having an opinion. As with any debate, what I always take issue with is definitive statements and those that can’t be backed up fully.
I also see you reiterating the point through this thread that Greenwood and the club have admitted to mistakes and I agree those shouldn’t be ignored. That’s why frankly I’ve changed my opinion to agree that he needed to leave.
I have and will continue to speak out against all forms of injustice. If I don’t, I have chosen the side of the tyrants.
Putting words in my mouth. Mason Greenwood was rightfully suspended at the time.
Do you remember Benjamin Mendy? He was tried and convicted of crimes in the court of public opinion. He was charged to court and lost his football career and at the end he was not found guilty over the case that stole his career. Now my question is what will then happen to the persons that made him lose his career?
id be curious if there isnt a sale or anything this transfer window and the club gets sold if the new owners would do a reverse on the decision. Imagine he just goes out on loan somewhere and is regaining form and qatar owner comes in and says idgaf about the backlash and brings him back.
The club didn't have to make any statement on whether or not he's innocent though. The sensible thing would have been to not mention anything and merely mention the club and Greenwood is not returning to the first team squad. As it was the statement raised far more questions than answers.
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In amongst all of the acrimony in this thread I do believe everyone is united in their view that the statement was hot garbage and Arnold has made a complete mess of the handling of this issue.
Her Mum, dad and other witnesses.
If they genuinely think he is innocent, then that wouldn’t be fair to him though. It would make it look as though we’d concluded he was guilty. If that’s the belief of the club, then they did the right thing (although obviously it’s arguable that he should be permitted to play for United in that scenario).
City European champions. Will probably win 4 league titles in a row.
Chelsea's midfield worth more than half the teams in the PL.
Messi plays in the MLS. Neymar in Saudi. Kane in Germany.
Arsenal are good again.
One of our best youth products ever, could've genuinely become one of the best forwards in the world, throws his United career away. Will never play for us again.
I hate this timeline.
Chelsea's midfield worth more than half the teams in the PL.
Messi plays in the MLS. Neymar in Saudi. Kane in Germany.
Arsenal are good again.
One of our best youth products ever, could've genuinely become one of the best forwards in the world, throws his United career away. Will never play for us again.
I hate this timeline.
He perhaps did, but he was tasked by doing so by even worse owners, who did not want anything tondo with it.
So, you think the justice system is bang on, but then go on to talk about a huge mistake? You understand that cases don't get to court based on "public opinion" don't you? And that's the whole point of court, to take all evidence and make a decision right? Otherwise why is it there in the first place if it's so obvious who's guilty or not? You also surely understand mistakes in the system DO happen and quite often. Even in this case, a judge questioned the police on their shambolic handling of him breaking bail.
And you also "continue to speak out against all forms of injustice" and yet don't like others doing the same? You are all over the place. What makes you think your voice is more correct and cast iron than anyone else's? That arrogance is why you aren't coherent in what you state. Also, I didn't put words in your mouth, you lamented the time he lost due to this and called him a "poor boy". That "boy" has told you he is responsible, at least in part, for that. Yet it's still the public's fault. The public who can't fight against percieved injustice and yet you can.
Again, all over the place.
If we were down the pub, we'd likely be on the same page pretty quickly mate. We are in the same book, just a couple of pages apart.
Nope, there have been those saying United have handled it fine and can't understand why people are mad at them for it.
Not sure what this means, but if it helps I'm talking about United's access to the woman. It's all been through the mum and she didn't give them any new information, only refused to refute his version. Apparently anyway.
If he is innocent I really hope to see him play again. I was super excited when I first saw him
If they genuinely think he's innocent, why didn't they commission an independent investigation? There's plenty of options available to the club if they have evidence he's innocent. I mean its really straining any credibility to think that evidence shows that Greenwood has been the victim of a very elaborate conspiracy and doesn't want any of that information released, given his career and name is destroyed. But even in that case, an independent investigation wouldn't have to release the evidence when giving its judgement, but would give weight to the club sticking by him.
But Greenwood doesn't want any evidence released that supposedly exhonerates him, and the club didn't pursue an independent investigation. Curious stuff.
So it's better to do these things in private where the super rich and powerful potential abuser can use his/her wealth and influence to bury any allegations?
A young man who at the time was 19, guilty of no crime completely let down by his employer. Only 2 people know exactly what took place at the time of the alleged assault and the accusations were withdrawn upon new evidence but to some people he’s still guilty. He should have insisted on a trial because the kangaroo court of gossip won’t let drop.
Mason Greenwood never stood a chance of staying at Man Utd. Society is shunning a man who wasn't convicted. A sign of the changing times.
I know you think you have something there, but the SERIOUSNESS OF THE ALLEGATIONS part seems to have alluded you, also the fact it DIDN'T get to court.
Plus you must surely be well aware of why such a public figure charged with such serious offenses, especially offenses which have been under such scrutiny of late, would be deemed in the public interest to pursue no?
Or do you guys think they do this with no evidence and purely because of public pressure?
I love how you keep telling people they are assuming and don't know, yet you are the only one in here saying without doubt he's innocent as if you do know. So naïve for a justice warrior who hates all other justice warriors
BTW did you ever respond to Wumminator showing your hypocrisy?
Until that ''new evidence'' is actually released, and made public we will be left with an absolutely horrific recording and abusive pictures his partner posted to the public. If there was truly a chance of Greenwood ever playing for United again, well then that material ought to be debunked. Otherwise, it's going to fall on deaf ears, and to myself personally it looks like the woman dropped the charges for the child's sake and financial support. Which in my mind equates to her still being with the abuser. Rather you think that opinion is ''shunning a man who wasn't convicted'', means absolutely nothing, and you are naive to think money can't buy freedom in these cases.
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Are you ready to cheer and celebrate with someone whom you heard saying the following?
“I don’t give a feck what you want … I’m going to feck you, you twat … I don’t care if you want to have sex with me … Push me again one more time and watch what happens to you.”
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Who made him lose his career, and what do you think should happen to them?
Society? Any individual can decide whether or not they want to support him based on information that is publicly available. A huge number of people simply don't want to or can't reconcile that support, and they're more than entitled to that view. Meanwhile he remains still employed in his role, collecting his full wage as he has for the last year and a half, and his employer are choosing not to include him in their plans in the mean time as they can with any player for any reason.
It's an interesting take on 'shunned by society' but I can't say it's one I can agree on. I won't support him based on the contents of the recording, you can choose to, and that's on the individual, but it's not really outlandish that his current employer is looking for ways to move him on.
This is a perplexing post. I'm not sure what you're getting it; the footballing society is indeed largely shunning him based on the evidence that is in the public domain.
Many people (mainly consumers of football) take your position, and that is precisely why what the other member said is accurate.
I'm interested in hearing your take because it seems to contradict what you said. Their case wasn't very strong to begin with.
Now we've even established that the GMP are useless.
I've just given you my take, and it doesn't at all contradict what I said. Look up what public interest means in this context. And no, it isn't about the amount of people shouting about something like you guys seem to want to portray, it's not about "mob rule" or the "court of public opinion". It a high profile person accused of a high profile crime, it's not a case that they've just gone "oh lots of people have noticed, better definitely push this through!". That's not to say I don't think some cases may be more hastily pushed to make themselves look better, but that's not for this thread and there still has to be evidence. You can't just send cases to the CPS and definitely not the courts just because people are mad about something, that's categorically not how it works.
As for the GMP, you have the judges take on that to see they have made mistakes in relation to this case, specifically their handling of Greenwood breaking bail terms.
Could that also mean they made mistakes pushing this to the CPS? Of course! But then again, the CPS took it further until a witness dropped out and "new material" emerged. But we've been over that over and over, and none of it was about the police handling. So god knows.
Yeh, I noticed the significant period between the witness withdrawing and the case being dropped which basically shuts down the argument that the witness withdrawing is why the case was dropped. A factor yes, the sole reason as many keep claiming? No.
Instead, the CPS pressed ahead as they are entitled to do so and for almost a year. In that time they were unable to find enough to take it to court and instead, by their own admission found "new material" which ended any realistic possibility of conviction.
Why would anything happen to them? He wasn't proven innocent, the verdict is not proof they lied. There were nine of them, remember? Do you believe they were all liars? How often do you see that many accusers, even in celebrity cases?
The women who falsely accused him of rape and sexual assault. He was named and shamed in the court of public opinion. Shocking that he has had his life ripped from him.
He should sue for damages. It should be a classic case. He has lost out on a potential move to real Madrid and millions in future wages. He missed out millions on lucrative sponsorship deals. How will they compensate him for that?
Did you follow Johnny Depp's defamation trial against Amber Heard?
The vast majority will care, that’s why anyone specific who has been linked to him have quickly denied it.
The audio does matter that’s why Utd got rid of him, it’s why Nike instantly shot down idea he had a contract with them after Nike athlete appeared on his social media after charges were dropped. Some team will take him and them, their kit manufacturer and their sponsors will all be reminded about that.
The vast majority either care or are not going to admit they don’t care because not many people have an audio recording circulating of them alleged trying to rape someone.
Ok, that's what I thought you were saying. Lets rewind a little bit:
We can also add all your previous talk about innocent until proven guilty, the court of public opinion, and so on.
None of the women in the Mendy case have been criminally convicted of making false accusations. They haven't even been charged. Yet, here you are, perfectly comfortable of accusing people of crimes.
You are, very clearly, a liar. All the reasons you offer up in defense of Greenwood turn out to be lies. You talk about innocent until proven guilty, but you don't give a shit. You complain about the "court of public opinion", then turn around and do the same thing. You have zero principles, and it's clear for all to see. So, stop pretending. Say you want Greenwood to stay because you think he's innocent, or because you don't care either way. Don't make stuff up.
I've not seen any claim that was the sole reason. Not on here anyway, though I might have missed those posts.
No criminal charges, just suing for money?
And you think the same about the woman who accused Greenwood right?
Everyone who is complaining about it is. They are all part of what they decry, they just seem sad it's not their side been listened to.
I wonder how they think United chose which mob to listen to? Because the "outrage" over him leaving has been just as large on social media (and I include this place in that).
how does your mind work exactly? There is literal tape recordings ffs, the fact he’s an scumbag abuser is the reason he’s ‘’had his life ripped from him“ as you put it, he’s absolutely nobody to blame but himself.
You're right. It was my mistake. Let me correct my mistake. The women who
Those are your opinions that has no merit but why do people get offended when people disagree with them? The difference between poison and medicine is in the dose. Good night, Sir.
There have been numerous posters state the case was dropped due to the witness withdrawing.
Usually when arguing against those who claim "he was found not to have done it" and followed by an equally incorrect understanding of innocence.