The Getafe approach is 100% the correct one. They're happy they got a quality footballer on the cheap as they should. They made the decision and acting like they're ashamed of it won't help anyone.
Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
- Thread starter keithsingleton
- Start date
They're not all a homogenous group? news to me!
They didn't even speak to the alleged victim. How extensive is it if you don't talk to one of the two main people involved.
Sure, but the problem is we don't know what the mistake he acknowledges is, whether he's learned anything or developed, etc.
It's a very unique situation because of the tape and the secrecy around the lack of charges. The situation is not beneficial to Greenwood from a PR standpoint.
Yeah, as part of a prison sentence. Babacar Sarr wouldn't be welcomed back.
I’m intrigued to see what happens in Greenwood does well at Getafe and all these clubs who have taken a “moral” stance against signing him suddenly change their tune.
Looking at their reasoning more closely from what has been reported, it’s fairly clear it was more of a case of avoiding a PR shitstorm for the sake of a talented but unfit player rather than having anything to do with taking a stance against violence towards women.
We’ll see how strong their moral backbone is in a year, or whether it turns out it’s not just big bad Manchester United who have weak moral fibre.
All clubs are the same and will have their resolve weakened by the prospect of greater on field success or making more money, it’s disingenuous of journalists to paint United as being in an exceptionally poor way.
Looking at their reasoning more closely from what has been reported, it’s fairly clear it was more of a case of avoiding a PR shitstorm for the sake of a talented but unfit player rather than having anything to do with taking a stance against violence towards women.
We’ll see how strong their moral backbone is in a year, or whether it turns out it’s not just big bad Manchester United who have weak moral fibre.
All clubs are the same and will have their resolve weakened by the prospect of greater on field success or making more money, it’s disingenuous of journalists to paint United as being in an exceptionally poor way.
You literally must have googled the statement and you've still purposefully excluded the bits I referred to.
Here's the link so try again https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...orters-after-club-decision-on-mason-greenwood
They call out their investigation to be limited (which anyone with any experience knew) and essentially confirm the evidence given is third party statements. They didn't conclude from the audio anything they were given an alternative explanation and had no means to reasonably challenge that explanation (how would they).
I tried to explain this several times before the outcome was even disclosed. The club doesn't do a criminal investigation all HR investigations are primarily based on statements and public information. It's very very doubtful the police would have shared anything as there was no legal grounds for them to do so.
Greenwood and her family provided statements (most likely via lawyers), given no criminal proceedings or any other witness it's open and shut for any company.
I am sure the club was planning all that. But it was short circuitedby the internal leak to the press/social media.
I doubt they were planning on him accepting any more responsibility than he did in his statement since the position seems to be that the clip and photo has an alternative explanation and his girlfriend misrepresented it.
Only thing that we have that supports that is her dad's statement after the audio was published. However, people would argue he's financially motivated to play it down.
Getefe is doing what the club should have done a month ago when the football side of the club wanted him back.
Prepare a landing strip for him. Any body with any PR or communication background would have done so.
They lost control of the narrative.
and probably we will never know (what the mistake is exactly). Time will tell whether he is a better person not. What i’m saying is that people need to be given a chance.
One thing is for sure The Athletic are dining out on this story, every week they have more stories.
Todays one was about a training session and they ended the piece with more digs at United, I do see the value in reporting on this but they are surely taking the piss now.
Todays one was about a training session and they ended the piece with more digs at United, I do see the value in reporting on this but they are surely taking the piss now.
He would get a fair trial as anyone charged with a crime. If found guilty he would serve time in prison with focus on rehabilitation and a way forward. If found not guilty/ charges dropped, he would continue with his life. He did flee the country though.
How many Molde games did you attend while he was playing? The chants were relentless, every single game, and the only reason it wasn't a bigger story is because the media didn't name him for a long time.
But you know why that is, even if it offends or goes against your personal ethics. The more talented he proves to be, the more certain this will eventually be a footnote or small print by virtue of said ability. Benzema, Ribery, Giggs and so on and so forth, their talent comes before ethics as far as sport is concerned; if Greenwood goes on to be as good as any of them, his murkier chapters will be effectively stricken from the books or certainly put as far down the moral totem as possible.
Getafe know what they are doing; short-term flack for potentially massive gains *if* the player delivers.
The irony of wanting to be progressive as they apparently are, but then grouping different countries as the same
.The Athletic -- they stirred the pot from an internal leak -- jeopardise the person's career and now they have redemption stories to work on.
Excellent. Also nice to see his partner and child joining him in Spain as well. Looks like they’re moving on and living a happy life, which some of you need to do as well.
Nobody knows what went on but Greenwood must have been through a terrible time with it all.
Hope he and his family can all move on happily.
Hope he and his family can all move on happily.
I think this post is very dumb.
Iceland isn't even in Scandinavia
I hate the whole cancel culture narrative.
Sure the allegations he faced were horrendous but at the end if the day all charges were dropped.
Im just not sure it is right to be cancelled off social media and the back lash that goes with it.
Sure the allegations he faced were horrendous but at the end if the day all charges were dropped.
Im just not sure it is right to be cancelled off social media and the back lash that goes with it.
They were never going to let our best youth player in decades have a chance for redemption at United and sadly many fell for it.
Iceland is not part of Scandinavia.
It's a hard one. In this instance, the victim is clearly not "suffering" or blaming Greenwood. She's out there with him at the Getafe unveiling wearing his kit. So who would Greenwood be apologizing to? The world who isn't involved and don't matter in their relationship? I'd assume whatever apology had to happen has already happened between them. And ultimately I keep going back to in my head that for better or for worse, the justice system works as it does, and given that in this specific case the alleged victim and her family are all very much on Greenwoods side in all this, I'm finding it hard to just think he should continue to be effectively shunned. I think the 1.5 seasons out, being sent out for 1 year is pretty much a punishment in itself, but I do think he should be allowed to return to a normal life from this point. He'll deal with the chants his whole life of course, but it's real hard for me to think he should be permanently out of football or out of the club when the only people who actually matter in this case have very clearly moved on with their lives and forgiven him (for whatever happened).
Going out on loan as a prove himself year is the best case scenario for the club anyway for what it's worth, though they fumbled that horribly. Saying that, before they bring him back there is 100% a media interview that just needs to happen where he acknowledges what happens, what came out, explains his remorse and how himself and his partner are working through it and working to become better people. Or some bullshit along those lines. All that's needed. A firm strategy from the club, firm statement, a sympathetic interview and on you go.
It's a good loan for him. He comes to give the team some boost because their starlet Enes Unal is injured for a longe period.
Going to play on a league that is tactically very cult, he's in the Madrid Sur region, which is less than 25 mins away from Madrid city center, so he can even afford to live in the center of Madrid without being a nuisance.
They actually have a quite decent squad with solid players like Domingos Duarte, Maksimovic, Aleña with Enes Unal being an amazing player and a few hot prospects like Gaston Alvarez and Latasa.
Going to play on a league that is tactically very cult, he's in the Madrid Sur region, which is less than 25 mins away from Madrid city center, so he can even afford to live in the center of Madrid without being a nuisance.
They actually have a quite decent squad with solid players like Domingos Duarte, Maksimovic, Aleña with Enes Unal being an amazing player and a few hot prospects like Gaston Alvarez and Latasa.
I know, but the people are Scandinavian.Iceland isn't even in Scandinavia
As I said, the people are.
The CPS say they dropped the case because some witnesses withdrew. I'm guessing its the girlfriend who did not wish to speak any more of this, either to the detectives or to anyone else.
Icelanders.
But, yes - they're monsters (most of 'em).
Also, they're not Scandinavians (but that has been pointed out already, I see).
Haha that's a good point! And don't forget the Finns! I really don't like whaling so the Faroese are included imo. I think stereotype and truth play their part. Norway has a huge role in the hydrocarbons but taxes are high so social services are high compared to the UK and USA while the Nobel prize was set up by the inventor of dynamite. There's always an interesting divide between a region that's high on 'morality' and its political neutrality, maybe Monch's painting 'the scream' says it all.The irony of wanting to be progressive as they apparently are, but then grouping different countries as the same
We do think of them as our cretinous cousins though.
Why?
I understand that, but everyone is quick to say we don't know the full story or she's forgiven him, etc. The actual fact is she's not spoken to anyone.
Nobody knows what went on
We heard audio and saw photographs so we do know some of the things. And for many that's enough because of how disgusting it is.
but Greenwood must have been through a terrible time with it all.
Sympathy for the alleged abuser but none for the potential victim. That your first thought after hearing that audio would be 'Oh no he must've had a terrible time with it' shows where your priorities lie.
Yep. Being isolated on that miserable, volcanic rock for all those years has definitely done something to 'em, but still: they kinda qualify as family.
(I'm obviously kidding, but you never know on here: to be clear, I love Iceland and Icelanders in general.)
The Athletic's new piece:
https://theathletic.com/4835262/2023/09/06/mason-greenwood-getafe-back/
It was no more than 10 minutes, but it was long enough. Enough time for Mason Greenwood to come out onto the pitch of the Coliseum Alfonso Perez, pass between the artificial fireworks, do a couple of juggling tricks, take the official photos with Getafe’s two other new signings and answer three gentle questions.
Enough time for a grandstand with more than 3,000 people, including children, to chant his name, encouraged by the interviewer.
“How are you feeling?” asked the interviewer and Greenwood, with a faint whisper, replied: “I’m glad to be here, excited, I’m gonna give everything for the team.
“I’m strong, I’ve been training for four or five months and now with my team-mates.”
Hours earlier, on Tuesday morning, Greenwood had his first training session with Getafe, one of the youngest teams in Spain’s Primera Division. It was the first time they had held a public session for their supporters at the stadium. In attendance was Greenwood’s partner, who followed training from the stands of the stadium, accompanied by the player’s father, Manchester United staff who accompanied them on the trip, a lawyer, an intermediary and the sporting director of Getafe, Ruben Reyes.
So far, to a large degree, so normal. And yet this is not a normal transfer.
Greenwood has not played for Manchester United since he was arrested on January 30, 2022, after graphic audio and images emerged on social media. He was charged by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) in the UK for attempted rape, assault occasioning actual bodily harm, and controlling and coercive behaviour. All those charges, which Greenwood has always denied, were dropped by the CPS on February 2 this year. As of early August, United had been intending to bring Greenwood back, only to be forced into a reversal in the face of severe criticism.
In a statement in late August, Greenwood said he had been “cleared of all charges” and at his unveiling. Getafe’s sporting director Reyes said Greenwood arrived with no suspicions and that there was “nothing to handle” because “a judge has already said it very clearly”.
In fact, the ending of legal action against Greenwood came not because of the findings of a judge, but because, the CPS said, the withdrawal of key witnesses and new evidence coming to light meant “there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction. In these circumstances, we are under a duty to stop the case”.
“It has already been said by the person who had to say it, who is a judge and is the absolute maximum authority,” said Reyes. “We have signed players who were ready to be signed and Mason, Rico and Oscar, we considered that they were good signings to complete the squad.” But when The Athletic asked Reyes if they had investigated his case, Getafe’s press officer interrupted the answer saying: “That’s it, that’s it, we’re done on this issue. It’s already explained, we don’t want to create controversy.”
His loan move had been sealed just before the close of the transfer window on Friday night. Shortly after midnight local time, Getafe president Angel Torres heard a message from one of the club’s employees: “Presi, come out and see this.” Looking down towards the gates of the club’s Coliseum Alfonso Perez stadium, about a dozen teenage fans had gathered to celebrate the deal.
Greenwood’s arrival in Spain has created from the beginning an enthusiasm among Getafe fans, many of whom did not know (and some still do not know) the details behind why he has ended up at their modest club. His case has been covered significantly internationally, especially by The Athletic, but domestic media in Spain have not reported widely on the story.
Despite the criminal proceedings ending, Manchester United had launched an inquiry, as they sought to gain a fuller understanding of the circumstances that led to them. The club knew the police became aware of graphic images and videos circulating online before arresting Greenwood.
After six months of investigation, United’s chief executive, Richard Arnold, initially told his executive leadership team on August 1 of his intention to bring Greenwood back into the club’s first-team, formulating extensive plans reported by The Athletic, only for the club to U-turn following a social media backlash.
Getafe saw his availability as a bargain in the market, a deal that made financial sense. They will only have to pay a small part of his wages, with United continuing to pay at least £50,000 of the player’s £75,000-per-week salary.
There was also a feeling that if the loan spell went well, then Getafe could become a good destination for United’s developing players. It was another incentive for Getafe.
A month earlier, they decided to give the reins of the communication strategy to the former head of communications of Celta Vigo, Marco Rocha, with the same intention: to open borders. Two days before Greenwood’s signing, they created their first Twitter account in English. Since his arrival, their following has reached more than 30,000 followers.
On Tuesday morning, Getafe held that first training session in front of fans inside their stadium.In the early stages of training, Greenwood was accompanied by two fitness trainers, who were giving him instructions in English. Greenwood then exercised with the rest of the group, accompanied by former Real Madrid youth player Juanmi Latasa, who was guiding him. He looked a little lost, unaccustomed to training with team-mates after more than a year without doing so. Attentive to everything they said, he could be seen smiling. After a few on-the-ball drills, Greenwood showed several flashes of quality as he took on a defender and the goalkeeper in individual moves. A sign of what the club wants, having informed him upon his arrival that he would start as a winger (although he could end up playing as a centre-forward).
“He has played 200 games for Manchester United,” commented one Getafe director, reflecting on what he was seeing.
Even so, in the club’s offices and in the dressing room, Getafe still believe Greenwood will need time to get up to speed physically and settle in Madrid. They do not deny that he could be the best player they have had in their history.
By the evening, as he kicked the ball into the stand at his presentation, his name was being chanted again.
“He wants to stay all the season and he will be here all the season,” said Reyes, whose club have no option to buy Greenwood. “It’s a player that we knew was there, but working step by step, having info, we saw there could be a possibility of speaking with his family, his father, and he finally trusted us. It is a satisfaction to give this joy to the people.”
Enough time for a grandstand with more than 3,000 people, including children, to chant his name, encouraged by the interviewer.
“How are you feeling?” asked the interviewer and Greenwood, with a faint whisper, replied: “I’m glad to be here, excited, I’m gonna give everything for the team.
“I’m strong, I’ve been training for four or five months and now with my team-mates.”
Hours earlier, on Tuesday morning, Greenwood had his first training session with Getafe, one of the youngest teams in Spain’s Primera Division. It was the first time they had held a public session for their supporters at the stadium. In attendance was Greenwood’s partner, who followed training from the stands of the stadium, accompanied by the player’s father, Manchester United staff who accompanied them on the trip, a lawyer, an intermediary and the sporting director of Getafe, Ruben Reyes.
So far, to a large degree, so normal. And yet this is not a normal transfer.
Greenwood has not played for Manchester United since he was arrested on January 30, 2022, after graphic audio and images emerged on social media. He was charged by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) in the UK for attempted rape, assault occasioning actual bodily harm, and controlling and coercive behaviour. All those charges, which Greenwood has always denied, were dropped by the CPS on February 2 this year. As of early August, United had been intending to bring Greenwood back, only to be forced into a reversal in the face of severe criticism.
In a statement in late August, Greenwood said he had been “cleared of all charges” and at his unveiling. Getafe’s sporting director Reyes said Greenwood arrived with no suspicions and that there was “nothing to handle” because “a judge has already said it very clearly”.
In fact, the ending of legal action against Greenwood came not because of the findings of a judge, but because, the CPS said, the withdrawal of key witnesses and new evidence coming to light meant “there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction. In these circumstances, we are under a duty to stop the case”.
“It has already been said by the person who had to say it, who is a judge and is the absolute maximum authority,” said Reyes. “We have signed players who were ready to be signed and Mason, Rico and Oscar, we considered that they were good signings to complete the squad.” But when The Athletic asked Reyes if they had investigated his case, Getafe’s press officer interrupted the answer saying: “That’s it, that’s it, we’re done on this issue. It’s already explained, we don’t want to create controversy.”
His loan move had been sealed just before the close of the transfer window on Friday night. Shortly after midnight local time, Getafe president Angel Torres heard a message from one of the club’s employees: “Presi, come out and see this.” Looking down towards the gates of the club’s Coliseum Alfonso Perez stadium, about a dozen teenage fans had gathered to celebrate the deal.
Greenwood’s arrival in Spain has created from the beginning an enthusiasm among Getafe fans, many of whom did not know (and some still do not know) the details behind why he has ended up at their modest club. His case has been covered significantly internationally, especially by The Athletic, but domestic media in Spain have not reported widely on the story.
Despite the criminal proceedings ending, Manchester United had launched an inquiry, as they sought to gain a fuller understanding of the circumstances that led to them. The club knew the police became aware of graphic images and videos circulating online before arresting Greenwood.
After six months of investigation, United’s chief executive, Richard Arnold, initially told his executive leadership team on August 1 of his intention to bring Greenwood back into the club’s first-team, formulating extensive plans reported by The Athletic, only for the club to U-turn following a social media backlash.
Getafe saw his availability as a bargain in the market, a deal that made financial sense. They will only have to pay a small part of his wages, with United continuing to pay at least £50,000 of the player’s £75,000-per-week salary.
There was also a feeling that if the loan spell went well, then Getafe could become a good destination for United’s developing players. It was another incentive for Getafe.
A month earlier, they decided to give the reins of the communication strategy to the former head of communications of Celta Vigo, Marco Rocha, with the same intention: to open borders. Two days before Greenwood’s signing, they created their first Twitter account in English. Since his arrival, their following has reached more than 30,000 followers.
On Tuesday morning, Getafe held that first training session in front of fans inside their stadium.In the early stages of training, Greenwood was accompanied by two fitness trainers, who were giving him instructions in English. Greenwood then exercised with the rest of the group, accompanied by former Real Madrid youth player Juanmi Latasa, who was guiding him. He looked a little lost, unaccustomed to training with team-mates after more than a year without doing so. Attentive to everything they said, he could be seen smiling. After a few on-the-ball drills, Greenwood showed several flashes of quality as he took on a defender and the goalkeeper in individual moves. A sign of what the club wants, having informed him upon his arrival that he would start as a winger (although he could end up playing as a centre-forward).
“He has played 200 games for Manchester United,” commented one Getafe director, reflecting on what he was seeing.
Even so, in the club’s offices and in the dressing room, Getafe still believe Greenwood will need time to get up to speed physically and settle in Madrid. They do not deny that he could be the best player they have had in their history.
By the evening, as he kicked the ball into the stand at his presentation, his name was being chanted again.
“He wants to stay all the season and he will be here all the season,” said Reyes, whose club have no option to buy Greenwood. “It’s a player that we knew was there, but working step by step, having info, we saw there could be a possibility of speaking with his family, his father, and he finally trusted us. It is a satisfaction to give this joy to the people.”
https://theathletic.com/4835262/2023/09/06/mason-greenwood-getafe-back/
He has?
In which case all jury trials would actually be conducted online by poll, with no lawyers and hence without cross-examination. And with evidence selected only by the prosecution. We have trials, at least in part, because even in the most open and shut case, apparently conclusive evidence is itself not 'transparent';. That doesn't mean that the initial conclusion derived from it isn't sometimes wholly accurate, but given the circumstances (including the withdrawal of the case by CPS and, one might add, the witnesses own 'unofficial' statements regarding the genesis of that same evidence - which, of course, also isn't 'transparent' or necessarily true - then we have to reserve judgement)
You're entitled to privately derive any judgement you like from whatever random selection of facts you like and to put this forward as a theory or speculation- you're not, however, entitled to simply call it the 'truth' or to pass moral judgement (that necessarily refers to not-established facts, even if your conjectures are well informed or based in probability, as established ) upon others who question the premises of this same judgement. This applies doubly if you actively choose to ignore the existence of counter-evidence as indicated by those responsible for determining whether a case goes forward or not.
Since the images are, as you say, so 'disgusting' (no disagreement here) in what they suggest , then have you not considered that there might therefore exist equally compelling evidence made available to the CPS to put that judgement in question. We're all in a situation where the degree to which new evidence was significant compared to an unwillingness for the alleged victim to participate. However, from what has been made available to us all, we know that it is some combination of both - and hence none of us are in any position to determine that balance as things currently stand...
If we could all actually agree on what has been firmly established and what is hypothesis or speculation from all sides, then this might be a slightly more productive and less mutually acrimonious discussion...
The Athletic is so damn boring.
That's the actual fact? She hasn't spoken to anyone? How on earth do you know that? Is she mute?
I just think the club has been terribly naive here....naive to think there wouldn't be further questions and perhaps naive to think it might not all blow up again