Great point. Peak Ashley Young and Tony Valencia would be handy.
Matheus Cunha | Official | signed the first day of the window
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Yeah he's definitely getting the wingback formula chronically wrong.
- Never tested Garna or Antony in those roles
- Persisted with Maz and Dalot as a combination for a very long stretch when I believe we only scored one goal in a big sample of games
- May or may not have been part of the talent identification (or at least the sign-off for sure) for Dorgu who looks miles off it.
I'm very much behind him of course, but the wingback dilemma on both sides has been a nightmare for him.
- Never tested Garna or Antony in those roles
- Persisted with Maz and Dalot as a combination for a very long stretch when I believe we only scored one goal in a big sample of games
- May or may not have been part of the talent identification (or at least the sign-off for sure) for Dorgu who looks miles off it.
I'm very much behind him of course, but the wingback dilemma on both sides has been a nightmare for him.
If United just approach next season as if Cunha is the main addition and will somehow transform a team that's been consistently performing around 12th-16th for the last 2 seasons then I feel sorry for the guy.
But if he is one of 3-4 equally talented players, then as a group they might be able to transform the team.
No one player can do it alone! I just hope INEOS realise that.
But if he is one of 3-4 equally talented players, then as a group they might be able to transform the team.
No one player can do it alone! I just hope INEOS realise that.
Zirkzee doesn’t really lead the line though because he’s not a 9. Delap would be a far better fit for that role.
Zirkzee has 3 goals and 1 assist this season. The occasional decent flick has seriously done a number on people as to how poor he’s been overall.
a top striker
a top wingback
cunha
a goalkeeper for cheap
we can be in the top 4 next year with this as long as they don't get Injured and our strongest lineup plays every single game every single minute every single second
a top wingback
cunha
a goalkeeper for cheap
we can be in the top 4 next year with this as long as they don't get Injured and our strongest lineup plays every single game every single minute every single second
We need a midfielder more than a wingback - and based on the links to date the club hopefully also agree.
Cunha is a good start imo - good that he’s a here and now player, but still many years ahead of him.
Amad shifted back and forth because, ideally, you aren't forced to make him put in defensive shifts with how gifted he is on the ball. You want players like that further forward constantly.
But yes he hasn't gotten creative at all with different personnel in those spots. It's largely been Dalot/Maz/Dorgu in some order, and it doesn't look like Dorgu is currently going to be a gamechanger in how we can widen the pitch and produce danger from those spots.
We need two midfielders. This has been one of our biggest weaknesses in the past years
I'm so with you on this.
I'm not sure why people are so convinced he is after more attacking WBs.
Especially Dalot... He tends to be his first name on the team sheet. I don't see that changing.
I get that people like to have a little cry about the fee and stuff but I wish you could all get it out of your systems earlier so we can move on at a certain point in these threads
if you can't get excited about signing a maverick Brazilian forward whose already performing in the PL cos he's 20 million too much, or whatever, there's something a bit wrong there in my view
can't wait to see him in the shirt at old trafford!
if you can't get excited about signing a maverick Brazilian forward whose already performing in the PL cos he's 20 million too much, or whatever, there's something a bit wrong there in my view
can't wait to see him in the shirt at old trafford!
if they pay the fee over 3 seasons, it'll give us room in the budget to spend elsewhere to help reinforce the squad
Cunha has proven he can thrive in that 343 system....scoring and creating chances both of which we badly need
Cunha has proven he can thrive in that 343 system....scoring and creating chances both of which we badly need
Yeah, if doesn't bode well for the youngsters in the academy who play 4-2-3-1 on a regular basis that Amorim doesn't seem interested in coaching players to learn new positions. Lacey in particular doesn't have an obvious route to the first team without re-education.
I don't think he's worth £62.5m. While he's definitely an exciting player who would improve our team, I can't shake the feeling that he's more of a luxury addition than someone who can lead us to titles. There's a reason why the top teams aren't chasing him.
He feels more like a Zirkzee than a Bruno, if that makes sense.
On the other hand, if we can squeeze in Cunha, Delap, and a proper passing midfielder within a £100m budget, that's a different conversation altogether.
He feels more like a Zirkzee than a Bruno, if that makes sense.
On the other hand, if we can squeeze in Cunha, Delap, and a proper passing midfielder within a £100m budget, that's a different conversation altogether.
Good post.
Strange behaviour isn’t it.
Excited at the prospect of watching him play on a regular basis.
It's always possible that Antony and Garnacho weren't interested in changing positions of course. Their earning potential would drop for a start and giving up being in goal-scoring areas would be a big loss for a lot of players.
Plausible but not that probable.
Is the release clause in euros? About 53m quid?
It's clear he opts to deploy full-backs over attackers in those roles and seems contend with the choice, except when the opposition is reduced to ten men and we desperately need a goal to rescue the match. Illusion of our team being compact and limiting chances will crumble if we play natural wingers as wing-backs.
Also, deploying them in the Premier League is far more challenging than in Portugal, where 80% of teams are comparable to League 1 or League 2 standards, and you dominate possession in most matches.
I think in big games and early in his implementation he is playing fullbacks as wingbacks, Dalot and Mazraoui, but as he gets more confident and the players adapt to the system he will be more likely to use wingers in those roles, ie Amad and Garnacho. I just think he is being less risk adverse at this point, but eventually when the rest of the team learns their roles better he will get more adventurous. Early on it's easy to teach fullbacks to attack then to teach wingers to be defensive. He obviously has used Amad in that role, but maybe at this point he just has more trust in Amad, doesn't mean he won't get there with Garnacho.
It's only this one guy who's reported it in euros. It's been reported as £62.5m all along.
It would be very odd if the English press had the release clause of a player playing for an English club wrong in pounds. There's no conversion required.
Well for one, we know via David Ornstein that we were trying to sign an attacking wingback in Quenda. That's a fairly big hint.
Hes also said he wants an attacker in the WB position for some games which is why he played Amad there and its also what he has always done
Glad that he’s turned to Arsenal. Arsenal fan asked him to join them 
Will this get announced before the season ends?
I think he did try Garnacho there but as a sub once or twice. Maybe in Europa? But I m not really sure.
I heard it was Vietnamese dong
I don't know, it's speculation of course but these things matter to players. Antony lost his temper about being played at left back by Ten Hag in one match. I remember McTominay came over to have a word.
Another reason we should have kept him.
I just can't get excited about this signing, being stung way too many times has got me anxious about any potential signing.
I also saw Wolves win % without him is around 61/62%, compared to 29% with him and the walking stat, something doesn't add up.
I also saw Wolves win % without him is around 61/62%, compared to 29% with him and the walking stat, something doesn't add up.
That was left back. The wing back role in this system is actually not dissimilar to a winger when players actually perform properly in the role.
I've only seen bits of them but he looks like a similar player to Goncalvo Guedes AKA Pote. Edit - I mean Pedro Goncalves.
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No, it's not the same position, obviously, but from a player who's currently an attacker do you go elsewhere and play your preferred position or do you potentially waste a couple of seasons being converted to a role you, at least initially don't really want to play? I think the answer depends on the individual really. You may not succeed in the new role.
Not really related to the point I made.
The point I made was Amorim could have played Garna and Antony in these positions while they were at the club and he never did.
You suggested they may have refused. I find that quite unlikely, especially considering he's been vocal of wanting defenders to play that role first.
Anyway not the thread to discuss this.
RE: Wingbacks- it's strange that we haven't seemingly been interested in Frimpong or any classic "attacking wingback/wide winger" types apart from Quenda there. Dorgu was a purchase moreso for the future and even before signing it seemed like he was going to be a raw project type.
I don't mind the system Amorim is trying to play, and I think many miss the mark with calling it "defensive" because at it's best it's actually a very attacking style. But if you're going to insist on this system, the wingbacks are fecking vital and you can't afford to be shoving square pegs in round holes there. Dalot/Maz/ even Shaw don't fit what you need in these spots. Dorgu maybe develops but it's not great looking at early returns (plenty of time though). It's just frustrating as a fan because if you had a wingback pairing of Davies and Frimpong for example, people would be in awe at how much more dangerous we look and how "exciting this new system is" because you have a pair of rampaging dribblers with pace to burn to help in attack instead of every ball going out to Dalot to hoof into the stands as a "cross".
I don't mind the system Amorim is trying to play, and I think many miss the mark with calling it "defensive" because at it's best it's actually a very attacking style. But if you're going to insist on this system, the wingbacks are fecking vital and you can't afford to be shoving square pegs in round holes there. Dalot/Maz/ even Shaw don't fit what you need in these spots. Dorgu maybe develops but it's not great looking at early returns (plenty of time though). It's just frustrating as a fan because if you had a wingback pairing of Davies and Frimpong for example, people would be in awe at how much more dangerous we look and how "exciting this new system is" because you have a pair of rampaging dribblers with pace to burn to help in attack instead of every ball going out to Dalot to hoof into the stands as a "cross".
The price seems high, only from United budget POV. But it's actually a freaking bargain, for an attacking player with profile like him.
Well, it's related in that we've seen evidence of Antony being dissatisfied with playing out of position before. Changing positions is a pretty big deal for an established player. I'm not sure it's sufficiently worth further discussion though.
Agreed. There were certain times yesterday, where Dorgu and Maz were upfront with Hojlund. But all 3 were just not up to standard, attacking wise.
I think that is the vision. The system allows two 10's and 2 wingbacks interchangeably or all join the striker to attack. That's a very dynamic structure.
Between this Amorim system and Ten Hag before, the amount of times I've had to watch Dalot take up forward positions or be through on goal is enough to make my head hurt.
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