MrEleson
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- Oct 25, 2014
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Can’t comment. I’ve genuinely never seen him play. I hardly watched any of Atletico’ games last season apart from the CL ones.
Hey! Martial is our best strikerSame as Martial when we signed him and look how well... Oh wait.
Seriously though, I'm past caring now, I'd be excited to see us sign pretty much anyone.
So you've heard of him then?Can’t comment. I’ve genuinely never seen him play.
Yes but I watched Atletico even less than I usually do last season. I only watched Real Madrid and some Barca games as far as la liga teams go. So I don’t know much about him.So you've heard of him then?
Thanks for commenting.Can’t comment. I’ve genuinely never seen him play. I hardly watched any of Atletico’ games last season apart from the CL ones.
I respect you for even watching one game of Atletico. I’d rather watch the weather news for Manchester.Yes but I watched Atletico even less than I usually do last season. I only watched Real Madrid and some Barca games as far as la liga teams go. So I don’t know much about him.
And Juventus are desperate to sell Rabiot.Same reason Barca are making a profit on De Jong despite the world knowing they want to sell him - United are desperate.
Exciting times.So this guy has been publicly criticized by 2 different coaches for being lazy already in his short career. He could barely get off Atletico's bench last season and doesn't have a good goal scoring record. And we're going to pay double what they paid last year?!
It comes from his stats. For the last season he is in the 95 percentile of strikers for attempted pressures, 93 for successful pressures per 90 mins. But honestly i could imagine his stats are quite inflated because he rarely started a game last season and i guess in a 20 min sub appearance you can just press more as you don't have to conserve your energy for 90 mins.Yeah I don't know where some "he's running and pressing all game" takes on here come from.
He's quick, but he's lazy.
if you call cruising into early retirement on a huge contract ambitious, he’s very ambitious.Wondering how ambitious he is if he wants to join us
Given how underrated Firminho's role in Liverpool's team functioning as a unit is, that is high praise indeed. If he's that good we should snatch him up quickly.Iirc correctly he had a high (not as high) amount of pressures before Atletico signed him too. However, he does come off the bench and press and close down players. It looks like Simeone sends him on with orders to do that and obviously that will make his numbers for it higher, but theres also a reason why he's picked to do that job and not someone else
I think he has the potential to be above Firminho level, but doubt he'll get to a Mane or Salah level.
The BiB will be a huge problem joining us. I suppose he’ll fit in well with the furniture.My flatmate is a Hertha fan so I actually did watch him a bit, in short:
Pro:
- very good technical abilities and great dribbling
- very good work rate and pressing (although it has to be said, the numbers being mentioned are definitely Simeone influenced, he wasn't that much of a pressing monster at Hertha)
Cons:
- disappears when things aren't going well
- doesn't score a lot despite having a good shot.
Overall I'd say he's a bit like a budget version of Bruno with better pressing. Can create a lot but downside is the risk he takes which can lead to plenty of misplaced passes. There's a reason why both Leipzig and Atletico were/are willing to let him go so quickly.
On the panic buy scale I'd rate him above Arnautovic and about par/slightly below Rabiot. 50m is definitely a rough overpay but given your current situation I think no one of you is under the illusion that he was part of the transfer plan all along. For me he isn't the calibre of what you aim for (top 4 PL) but well, if you're looking for any sort of improvements in quality and depth he definitely can add something. At best I'd say he ends up like e.g. Herrera, a quality servant for a couple of years but not a legend, at worst he'll be another deadwood that you'll have trouble offloading in a year.
Again I'm saying potential. Firminho is proven as someone who settled and did well for Liverpool, in a combination with 2 even better players in attack. He doesnt score a huge amount but he causes problemsGiven how underrated Firminho's role in Liverpool's team functioning as a unit is, that is high praise indeed. If he's that good we should snatch him up quickly.
I was the guy calling him a SchönwetterfussballerIt comes from his stats. For the last season he is in the 95 percentile of strikers for attempted pressures, 93 for successful pressures per 90 mins. But honestly i could imagine his stats are quite inflated because he rarely started a game last season and i guess in a 20 min sub appearance you can just press more as you don't have to conserve your energy for 90 mins.
He had 72 successful pressures in La Liga in 1053 minutes last year. Ronaldo had 49 in 2459 minutes last season. Of course, Ronaldo is the opposite of a hard working striker. But if we compare him with other strikers like Kane, who had 110 in 3232 minutes and isn't considerd as lazy, it doesn't look too bad. Or Luis Diaz, who is looking like he is constantly running and pressing. He has 59 in 964 minutes for Liverpool last year.
Therefore i am a bit sceptical if he continues to press hard if he plays full games but at least the one season in Germany where he started most matches he also had very good stats with 6 successful pressures per 90 which is very high for strikers/attacking midfielders/wingers.
Maybe the stats are deceiving me but i don't think he is - like the one poster called - a "Schönwetterfußballer". And if he works his socks off i'll take him. If we gonna trust ETH and want to implement his idea i would prefer a striker who works hard but will score a few less than CR7. We are not gonna be good this season anyway, so better start to implement a progressive football style than grinding out results with a 37 year old striker (what we didn't even manage to do since he came back...so not even close to working).
Cheers, sounds terrible tbh. I would rather Morata for a stop gap and a lower fee.My flatmate is a Hertha fan so I actually did watch him a bit, in short:
Pro:
- very good technical abilities and great dribbling
- very good work rate and pressing (although it has to be said, the numbers being mentioned are definitely Simeone influenced, he wasn't that much of a pressing monster at Hertha)
Cons:
- disappears when things aren't going well
- doesn't score a lot despite having a good shot.
Overall I'd say he's a bit like a budget version of Bruno with better pressing. Can create a lot but downside is the risk he takes which can lead to plenty of misplaced passes. There's a reason why both Leipzig and Atletico were/are willing to let him go so quickly.
On the panic buy scale I'd rate him above Arnautovic and about par/slightly below Rabiot. 50m is definitely a rough overpay but given your current situation I think no one of you is under the illusion that he was part of the transfer plan all along. For me he isn't the calibre of what you aim for (top 4 PL) but well, if you're looking for any sort of improvements in quality and depth he definitely can add something. At best I'd say he ends up like e.g. Herrera, a quality servant for a couple of years but not a legend, at worst he'll be another deadwood that you'll have trouble offloading in a year.
Somewhere between Firmino & those two would do wonders for this team, however the lazy and storms off when things don't go his way thing worries me. We need an Atletico fans POV on this.Iirc correctly he had a high (not as high) amount of pressures before Atletico signed him too. However, he does come off the bench and press and close down players. It looks like Simeone sends him on with orders to do that and obviously that will make his numbers for it higher, but theres also a reason why he's picked to do that job and not someone else
I think he has the potential to be above Firminho level, but doubt he'll get to a Mane or Salah level.
How is his link up play, strength and aerial ability? because I would love someone like Firminho up top - he is a vastly underrated player.Again I'm saying potential. Firminho is proven as someone who settled and did well for Liverpool, in a combination with 2 even better players in attack. He doesnt score a huge amount but he causes problems
So if we got him and he settled, I think thats eventually the kind of thing we could see. He'd be a threat even though he might not score enough goals for some, like people say about Firminho
So he's technically skilled and now knows how to press, a poor man Neymar (technically) who works hard is a very decent footballer.I was the guy calling him a Schönwetterfussballer
I'm a bit surprised by these statistics to be honest. Maybe your explanation is right that it is due to him mostly being subbed in, maybe it's due to Simeone. I don't know.
When he was at Leipzig I watched him very regularly and that was a team that pressed really well. But he couldn't do it on the same level as his team mates.
As I said, I haven't followed him much at Atletico, but in the Bundesliga he was a (very) poor man's version of Neymar.
Even Atletico fans would struggle to comment, they are usually asleep after 30 minutes.Can’t comment. I’ve genuinely never seen him play. I hardly watched any of Atletico’ games last season apart from the CL ones.
He's 23 though. That stuff is harder to correct in say a 37 year old...Somewhere between Firmino & those two would do wonders for this team, however the lazy and storms off when things don't go his way thing worries me. We need an Atletico fans POV on this.
Not sure about in the air. It may well be a weakness.How is his link up play, strength and aerial ability? because I would love someone like Firminho up top - he is a vastly underrated player.
I’m not sure why you need to bring Ronaldo into this conversation. Please stay on topic.The only times I've seen him play (For Brazil and Atletico) he's always come across as a bit of an arsehole who complains when he doesn't get the pass and looks to shoot constantly rather than playing others in.
I was actually surprised he was playing for Brazil given their attacking talent to be honest but maybe I just caught a bad couple of matches.
If it looked like a passive aggressive attack against your post i am sorry, definitely wasn't intended so.I was the guy calling him a Schönwetterfussballer
I'm a bit surprised by these statistics to be honest. Maybe your explanation is right that it is due to him mostly being subbed in, maybe it's due to Simeone. I don't know.
When he was at Leipzig I watched him very regularly and that was a team that pressed really well. But he couldn't do it on the same level as his team mates.
As I said, I haven't followed him much at Atletico, but in the Bundesliga he was a (very) poor man's version of Neymar.
They won't sell for £50mUnpopular opinion but I'd rather spend that 50m on Ivan Toney who can actually score goals
if we unsettle him we could force it. We used to do that so successfully during the Fergie years.They won't sell for £50m
Unpopular opinion but I'd rather spend that 50m on Ivan Toney who can actually score goals
to be honest I did think (During the world cup qualifiers) "Who does this fella think he is? Ronaldo?" but that was supposed to be a slight on Cunhas entitled behavior on the pitch vs his actual accomplishments at the time.I’m not sure why you need to bring Ronaldo into this conversation. Please stay on topic.
Very true but we haven't got that influence nowif we unsettle him we could force it. We used to do that so successfully during the Fergie years.
Like the stats showing joe Allen as the best passer in europe at one time? Yeh. I’ll trust fans who’ve been watching him regularly. Skill and such are hard to judge. But laziness is certainly much easier to spot.the stats don’t lie when it comes to pressing. maybe he just had a bad game and dropped his head? i’d certainly believe the stats over a disgruntled ex fan anyway
Below are his pressing stats from Lepizig.I was the guy calling him a Schönwetterfussballer
I'm a bit surprised by these statistics to be honest. Maybe your explanation is right that it is due to him mostly being subbed in, maybe it's due to Simeone. I don't know.
When he was at Leipzig I watched him very regularly and that was a team that pressed really well. But he couldn't do it on the same level as his team mates.
As I said, I haven't followed him much at Atletico, but in the Bundesliga he was a (very) poor man's version of Neymar.
Yeah, i think Firmino was far more important in Liverpools evolution as a team than Mane for instance. If we could pick up a player like that it would be great.Given how underrated Firminho's role in Liverpool's team functioning as a unit is, that is high praise indeed. If he's that good we should snatch him up quickly.
Spot on we are not in position to be snobbyThe days of "is he good enough for us" are over. The question is "he surely cant be worse than what we have can he?"