Matthijs de Ligt

Gordon Godot

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Exactly. Only reasons I can think of is
1. Bruno and Rashford
2. Lack of squad depth

In conjunction with our horrible preseason and 1st PL match, it was bitterly disappointing to hear and set us up for where we are right now.
Same narrative. A coaching genius let down by the squad. I am not that convinced Ajax were as great as sum, one good run in CL with some very good players. they were a giant in a tiny league. look at how the likes of Antony have fared in the Premier league. He's been here 18 months, spent£400m and still were saying he doesnt have right tools. Really?
 

Yagami

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You claim to have watched de Ligt and then claim he would be like Lindelof. Something tells me you didnt actually watch him because de Ligt is totally different to Lindelof. He is way more Maguire than Lindelof.
He's like Lindelof in the sense that, for me, he's too passive defensively. I haven't watched him for Bayern but when I did at Ajax or especially Juve, he came across too mild and weak. The PL would eat him alive.
 

2 man midfield

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At this rate he’s just going to sign Luuk De Jong and play him DM. He’s desperate for that old Ajax side.
 

Zehner

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Same narrative. A coaching genius let down by the squad. I am not that convinced Ajax were as great as sum, one good run in CL with some very good players. they were a giant in a tiny league. look at how the likes of Antony have fared in the Premier league. He's been here 18 months, spent£400m and still were saying he doesnt have right tools. Really?
Ajax played some very good football. The question is how much was the institution and how much was Ten Hag's coaching. In general, I think clubs like Ajax or Barca which are so deeply associated with a certain brand of football will always play that way to an extent and every coach there will have to adapt to that. Right now, I have the feeling that Ten Hag decided to adapt his philosophy to the culture at United and isn't really as associated with a style as we assumed when Ajax had this amazing UCL run.
 

Gordon Godot

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Ajax played some very good football. The question is how much was the institution and how much was Ten Hag's coaching. In general, I think clubs like Ajax or Barca which are so deeply associated with a certain brand of football will always play that way to an extent and every coach there will have to adapt to that. Right now, I have the feeling that Ten Hag decided to adapt his philosophy to the culture at United and isn't really as associated with a style as we assumed when Ajax had this amazing UCL run.
I am sure they did as lots of people say that. But most of that was in a league of absolute minnows, unlike Barcelona. I agree for a long time Ajax was extremely well run. I think the mistake as you imply was to assume that ETH could work outside that support. He seems utterly lost
 

GMoore23

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There arent any centerbacks that are faster than Mbappe, its all about positioning, something I have no doubt you know very well.
Prime Bailly could've held his own for a few seconds before pulling up injured.
 

Pronewbie

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He's like Lindelof in the sense that, for me, he's too passive defensively. I haven't watched him for Bayern but when I did at Ajax or especially Juve, he came across too mild and weak. The PL would eat him alive.
I agree with most of your views on De Ligt's time at Juve. What struck me was how much better the likes of Chiellini and Bonucci looked defensively. He was also error prone. I guess ball playing defenders are plentiful these days which makes him even less unique. I haven't seen his defensive work at Bayern to make any comments on his improvements though.
 

daba

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I like De Ligt as a player and character but he’s not what we need for that RCB role. Pair that with the price Bayern will want, his high wages, his less than clean injury record, and the fact that Bayern never sell a good / not injury prone player willingly - hard pass from me.

If Bayern are open to a direct swap with Maguire then I’m all for it though!
 

GueRed

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I remember I wanted him and de Jong back in summer 2019.

I havent really followed his career (games) since then. He still must be 23/24 yrs old
 

Hughes35

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I'm not usually one of these that just want's quick players..... However, I do feel we lack a quick CB so this isn't the correct signing IMO.

He's good and I wouldn't mind him at the club but if he's our only CB signing then it's a mistake.

Wish we had got Kim in. From the PL I like Bassey, Guehi and Branthwaite. Think they are all ready for a step up. Strong, quick defenders that suit a modern team that want's to press and defend high.
 

OleGunnar20

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I'd put professionalism/discipline and work ethic over physical dominance. Latter ain't gonna mean anything if you buy a lazy entitled player, we've been stung too many times.
Oh sure you're spot on there. Mentality should come above everything really. Its been such a weak spot in our recruitment since SAF.
 

United888

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He’s on £260k pw. If we are being serious to fix our wages structure then he shouldn’t be in our CB signing list. Max should be £200k pw. Only allow to raise it to £250k or £300k max when he reaches the same influence as what van Dij’s has at Liverpool.
 

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There’s no way Bayern don’t try and scam us.

We really need to avoide Bundesliga players. It might work for other clubs but we get screwed every time.
 

SAFMUTD

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It's clear de Ligt hasn't live up to expectations he's injury prone and somewhat slow. He's on big wages due to the potential he seemed to have back then, it sounds like the recipe of a complete disaster for us.
 

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At this point I'd fully support a five year moratorium on signing any players or coaches who are Dutch, have played/coached in the Dutch league, or have spent more than a week in the Netherlands in their lifetime.
 

Sarni

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He’s the most obvious signing possible for us.
 

Yagami

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I agree with most of your views on De Ligt's time at Juve. What struck me was how much better the likes of Chiellini and Bonucci looked defensively. He was also error prone. I guess ball playing defenders are plentiful these days which makes him even less unique. I haven't seen his defensive work at Bayern to make any comments on his improvements though.
We're definitely in the same boat. Plus, you have to look at who he'd be partnering if he were to join. I like Martinez, and he's not afraid to get stuck in, but his size alongside a timid CB in de Ligt (alongside Onana not being that imposing himself) would leave us way too vulnerable. At least with other smaller CBs we've had in the past decade or so like Blind and Lindelof, we've partnered them with physically imposing defenders in Smalling and Maguire.
 

poleglass red

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typical Utd signing, good player, big name but wouldn't compliment what we have. We have Martinez, who for all his obvious quality isn't the quickest. He needs pace next to him, the template was there for all last season. He looked good next to Varane whose pace gelled well with Martinez.
 

GledTheRed

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No thanks, not good enough for Juve / Bayern so should not be good enough for us.

Got to be asking questions if he can't get in to the team for that donkey Upamecano.
 

Ekeke

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I'd take him for his aerials and long term Maguire replacement. I think he's clearly better than most of our CBs. He wouldnt be the only CB I'd bring in, moving others out as well though. Varane, Evans and Lindelof can all make way for better CBs without much fuss
 

JPRouve

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I'd take him for his aerials and long term Maguire replacement. I think he's clearly better than most of our CBs. He wouldnt be the only CB I'd bring in, moving others out as well though. Varane, Evans and Lindelof can all make way for better CBs without much fuss
I follow the same logic but Lindelof would be the one I keep because he is the one that I expect to handle being a bench option better. In an ideal world Varane, Evans and Maguire are sold/freed while two youngish CB replace them. Now the identity of these two CBs depends on the price tag because in my opinion, we have a far bigger need for a starting CM and a top level wide player.
 

United888

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I follow the same logic but Lindelof would be the one I keep because he is the one that I expect to handle being a bench option better. In an ideal world Varane, Evans and Maguire are sold/freed while two youngish CB replace them. Now the identity of these two CBs depends on the price tag because in my opinion, we have a far bigger need for a starting CM and a top level wide player.
We don’t need to keep Lindelof. We already have Willy Kambwala who is much much more ideal option than Lindelof.
 

JPRouve

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We don’t need to keep Lindelof. We already have Willy Kambwala who is much much more ideal option than Lindelof.
Not as a fourth option, he is ideal as the fifth or maybe 6th option. We are talking about someone that has played 92 minutes at senior level, he could easily not be good enough to even be on our bench.
 

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Not as a fourth option, he is ideal as the fifth or maybe 6th option. We are talking about someone that has played 92 minutes at senior level, he could easily not be good enough to even be on our bench.
I don’t know what is your expectation of 4th choice centre back but my expectation is that 4th choice centre back shouldn’t be playing regularly and maximum is 540 minutes (equivalent to 6 starts) in the league and getting the chances to play in cup games. I don’t see the risk here especially without champions league football if we go as per the idea of signing two centre backs that means we will have 3 centre backs ahead of him who are likely above his level in term of experienced and potentially ability. He had shown good promising when he was trusted by starting and performed well in the game vs West Ham away, which was a high level opposition.
 

JPRouve

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I don’t know what is your expectation of 4th choice centre back but my expectation is that 4th choice centre back shouldn’t be playing regularly and maximum is 540 minutes (equivalent to 6 starts) in the league and getting the chances to play in cup games. I don’t see the risk here especially without champions league football if we go as per the idea of signing two centre backs that means we will have 3 centre backs ahead of him who are likely above his level in term of experienced and potentially ability. He had shown good promising when he was trusted by starting and performed well in the game vs West Ham away, which was a high level opposition.
The risk is that you are putting all your eggs on someone that has zero experience at senior level and could easily be a dud. You are also doing that while making sure that your team can't sustain injuries, fatigue or poor form and all that for no reason.
 

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The risk is that you are putting all your eggs on someone that has zero experience at senior level and could easily be a dud. You are also doing that while making sure that your team can't sustain injuries, fatigue or poor form and all that for no reason.
My expectation in our first and second choice CB should be capable to play 30 league games so I expect no injury prone, if injury prone then we shouldn’t sign the player. If there is unfortunate injury the 3rd choice to step in or it’s an opportunity for Willy to step up and show what he can do.

This is where IMO we need to make the decision whether we keep him as 4th choice or sell. He‘s going to be 20 years old next season, if he can’t even make it to 4th choice centre back at 20 then I will question his potential.
 

Teja

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The risk is that you are putting all your eggs on someone that has zero experience at senior level and could easily be a dud. You are also doing that while making sure that your team can't sustain injuries, fatigue or poor form and all that for no reason.
One way to look at it is that the CB position has always been specialized (and now even more so) into two moulds (stoppers and sweepers). So the 4th choice ideally is the backup stopper / backup sweeper who can come in as soon as the first choice is injured.

There is no "3rd choice" - it's first choice / back up for both CB positions + some rotation fodder for cup games.
 

El Jefe

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I follow the same logic but Lindelof would be the one I keep because he is the one that I expect to handle being a bench option better. In an ideal world Varane, Evans and Maguire are sold/freed while two youngish CB replace them. Now the identity of these two CBs depends on the price tag because in my opinion, we have a far bigger need for a starting CM and a top level wide player.
Agreed we definitely need two CBs. Most importantly PL type defenders. Arsenal, Liverpool and City have the exact type of CB pairings needed to be successful in the PL.

I don’t think any of our CBs are in that mould. A healthy and in form Varane is but that’s unrealistic to rely on nowadays which is why it probably makes sense shifting him.
 

Ace Krampus

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My expectation in our first and second choice CB should be capable to play 30 league games so I expect no injury prone, if injury prone then we shouldn’t sign the player. If there is unfortunate injury the 3rd choice to step in or it’s an opportunity for Willy to step up and show what he can do.

This is where IMO we need to make the decision whether we keep him as 4th choice or sell. He‘s going to be 20 years old next season, if he can’t even make it to 4th choice centre back at 20 then I will question his potential.
Injuries happen. Guys tear ACL's without any contact. You want one freak injury to torpedo a season? You need cromulent options.