McTominay - what’s his potential?

[Chripper]

I don’t. You, apparently, do:

Not really, mate.

I wrote "How much did Paul Poba cost Manchester United" into Google and that's what came up. I thought that it illustrated my point quite well.

A player that cost nothing, has been trusted more than a player who cost £89.3m (In transfer fee. Since you need things explained).

People here keep saying "If McTominay played for another team, would we buy him?". But that rule applies to pretty much every one of our first XI, barring De Gea.

 

[Beachryan]

If we keep him (and we obviously will) I think his most useful role would be as a sub that brings some energy. He's simply not good enough to play central midfield for a major club.

Lord, just watch some of Chelsea vs. Madrid the other night. That is what two functioning midfields look like. And Modric is about 95 years old!

Is there an option out of defense at all times? Yes. Does subtle movement provide a second pass as an outlet from that first option? Yes? Whether it's Jorginho or Kante or Kroos or even Casemeiro, these are players that understand where to be, when, and have the ability to progress the ball.

With McFred we basically have to bypass the midfield at all times. It's embarassing.

 

[Lentwood]

If your Aunt had Balls she'd be your Uncle.

Word it whatever way you like he's not even good enough even for the bench. Tell me what teams in the top 10 Mctominay would get into? I'm genuinely interested.

I don't know where I say 'if' anything, so that first line has genuinely confused me.

I'm not getting into arguments about individual players or teams, I'll just repeat the point I made elsewhere about how we finished 3rd and 2nd in consecutive seasons with a manager who can't coach and players like McTominay, AWB, Maguire, Shaw, Fred starting every single week.

I am reliably informed by many forum experts these players wouldn't get into other PL top ten teams. Must have been a hell of a lucky 76 game run we went on to have awful players and an awful manager but consistently finish above teams packed with players the caf have clamoured for like Ruben Neves, Youri Tielemans and Thomas Partey....and teams with genuinely world-class players in Liverpool and Chelsea.

EDIT | Just to repeat, my point is not to argue about the quality of individuals, it's to say let's be realistic about what we have and not get overly carried away (in either direction, good or bad)

 

[harms]

Not really, mate.

I wrote "How much did Paul Poba cost Manchester United" into Google and that's what came up. I thought that it illustrated my point quite well.

A player that cost nothing, has been trusted more than a player who cost £89.3m (In transfer fee. Since you need things explained).

People here keep saying "If McTominay played for another team, would we buy him?". But that rule applies to pretty much every one of our first XI, barring De Gea.

This is your post, I haven’t edited it. If you would’ve compared Pogba’s transfer fee with McTominay’s, I wouldn’t have any issues with your post. You included a weird number of fee + wages for Pogba and then excluded wages of McTominay in comparison. And then laughed at me when I asked you to add McTominay’s wages to that comparison as if it didn’t make sense.

Paul Pogba has cost Manchester United £179.6 in transfer fee and wages. If all that does is buy you more ball recoveries than players who cost £0, then football is in a dreadful state.

 

[Oranges038]

Reading some of the first few posts in here, looks like he reached his potential around October 2019.

 

[Stacks]

I don't know where I say 'if' anything, so that first line has genuinely confused me.

I'm not getting into arguments about individual players or teams, I'll just repeat the point I made elsewhere about how we finished 3rd and 2nd in consecutive seasons with a manager who can't coach and players like McTominay, AWB, Maguire, Shaw, Fred starting every single week.

I am reliably informed by many forum experts these players wouldn't get into other PL top ten teams. Must have been a hell of a lucky 76 game run we went on to have awful players and an awful manager but consistently finish above teams packed with players the caf have clamoured for like Ruben Neves, Youri Tielemans and Thomas Partey....and teams with genuinely world-class players in Liverpool and Chelsea.

EDIT | Just to repeat, my point is not to argue about the quality of individuals, it's to say let's be realistic about what we have and not get overly carried away (in either direction, good or bad)

Well when Brown Oshea and Fletcher left they ended up at relegation battlers. In fact Shaw, AWB came from relegation level teams and Maguire was at 9th placed Leicester. its not a far shout

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Not really, mate.

I wrote "How much did Paul Poba cost Manchester United" into Google and that's what came up. I thought that it illustrated my point quite well.

A player that cost nothing, has been trusted more than a player who cost £89.3m (In transfer fee. Since you need things explained).

People here keep saying "If McTominay played for another team, would we buy him?". But that rule applies to pretty much every one of our first XI, barring De Gea.

Extremely funny to see your tone here considering you were literally the one who brought wages into it with your Google-verified Pogba cost figure. And then you decided to be clever and ask the other poster if they're an accountant for mentioning that McTominay gets paid to play for us too.

Either you weren't thinking when you posted, or you actually thought Pogba's transfer fee was 160 million. Either way, you look silly here and might as well own up instead of continuing to pretend the other guy is the one who got it wrong.

 

[Canuckred64]

I think he's as good as he ever will be. He's a decent player but if we are to win anything we need somebody better.

 

[tenpoless]

Change the thread title please. It's been almost 3 years.

 

[Lentwood]

Well when Brown Oshea and Fletcher left they ended up at relegation battlers. In fact Shaw, AWB came from relegation level teams and Maguire was at 9th placed Leicester. its not a far shout

So...how did we finish 2nd and 3rd then with those players, and players who are now BELOW them in the pecking order and/or can't get a game?

Also, weren't Brown, O'Shea and Fletcher like all 32+ when they left? And riddled with injuries/illness?

It's really easy to say all of our players are crap, but they're objectively not if you apply a little bit of common sense

 

[AndySmith1990]

He should be the very first player to be upgraded in the transfer window. He's the weakest link in the team by far and that's never going to change from what I've seen of him. A very limited player indeed

 

[honirelandboy]

I don't know where I say 'if' anything, so that first line has genuinely confused me.

I'm not getting into arguments about individual players or teams, I'll just repeat the point I made elsewhere about how we finished 3rd and 2nd in consecutive seasons with a manager who can't coach and players like McTominay, AWB, Maguire, Shaw, Fred starting every single week.

I am reliably informed by many forum experts these players wouldn't get into other PL top ten teams. Must have been a hell of a lucky 76 game run we went on to have awful players and an awful manager but consistently finish above teams packed with players the caf have clamoured for like Ruben Neves, Youri Tielemans and Thomas Partey....and teams with genuinely world-class players in Liverpool and Chelsea.

EDIT | Just to repeat, my point is not to argue about the quality of individuals, it's to say let's be realistic about what we have and not get overly carried away (in either direction, good or bad)

What trophies did they win those seasons and we are not even going to finish top four this season. Mourinho also finished second one season and a disaster the following season. The players your mention above are never gonna win you a league and not get you to get you into the top four every season.
As I said if your Aunt had balls she'd be your uncle. The way your talking is just sealing over the cracks. The players simply ain't good enough and if you haven five average players like you mentioned and six good players on the team then the next step is to replace the five average players in Shaw, AWB, Scott, Fred, Maguire if you plan on challenging for the league title or getting champions league every year.
The six good players are carrying these five average players and this is why a lot of the good players are getting really really pissed off at united and why the dressing room is so messed up.

 

[Stacks]

So...how did we finish 2nd and 3rd then with those players, and players who are now BELOW them in the pecking order and/or can't get a game?

Also, weren't Brown, O'Shea and Fletcher like all 32+ when they left? And riddled with injuries/illness?

It's really easy to say all of our players are crap, but they're objectively not if you apply a little bit of common sense

Because we have other good players, Bruno scoring lots of goals and creating, Rashford, Cavani, Pogba, et al all got us over the line in most games. We won the league in 2013 on the backs off 3 or 4 players. It happens all the time

 

[buckooo1978]

He should be the very first player to be upgraded in the transfer window. He's the weakest link in the team by far and that's never going to change from what I've seen of him. A very limited player indeed

Wan Bissaka says hi

 

[Isotope]

Fletch was twice the player

Since when it really matters? There are thousands of players better than Fletcher, if that's the main criteria.

 

[MileStolar]

He has a pretty high ceiling in him, wether he can play like that consistently and build up his confidence over a longer period is the question that lingers around him.
Also he's better utilized against offensive teams where there is more space in between two boxes where he excels. He's kinda pointless against low block so I'd say he should be more of a squad player which is fair when you look at his ability and the ability needed to play every week for a side striving to be the best.

 

[joedirt87]

none as a DM, but in a system where he can play as a box to box player with an emphasis on attacking he could at least be a solid rotation guy to have.

 

[Sandikan]

Decent squad filler.
Should never have really been such a regular starter.

 

[sideshow_bob]

If the reports are accurate that we are focusing on 2 midfielders & a striker, & then maybe a right sided attacker, we're going to need an interim right back till next summer window.

Someone with a good engine to get up & down the pitch regularly. Someone aggressive, who can pass the ball & drive forward with it when required.

Step forward Scotty McT.

 

[Foxbatt]

If the reports are accurate that we are focusing on 2 midfielders & a striker, & then maybe a right sided attacker, we're going to need an interim right back till next summer window.

Someone with a good engine to get up & down the pitch regularly. Someone aggressive, who can pass the ball & drive forward with it when required.

Step forward Scotty McT.

This must be a wind up?

 

[Chripper]

McTominay is out of the Everton match with a foot injury, so we'll see how our midfield looks without him.

Wonder who'll be the scapegoat today.

My money is on Maguire.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

McTominay is out of the Everton match with a foot injury, so we'll see how our midfield looks without him.

Wonder who'll be the scapegoat today.

My money is on Maguire.

Is anyone in this team not at the required level? Or do you feel it's all due to coaching and the players are actually all excellent?

There's this weird trend these days of people claiming that the absence of a player not improving performances is a sign of their quality or something. Ronaldo fans too keep popping up hailing him after we lose when he doesn't play. This logic misses the point completely in that nobody is saying one player is the issue but that said player isn't the solution. We don't have any midfielders. Despite my criticism of mctominay in this thread I would definitely start him as he's better than the other barely actual CM options like ancient Matic (although I'd pick him if he's feeling great and it's a low intensity game) and Pogba (not a real CM). So yeah, you can both feel that Mctominay hurts us big time and want him to start (due to a lack of options).

 

[Chripper]

Is anyone in this team not at the required level? Or do you feel it's all due to coaching and the players are actually all excellent?

There's this weird trend these days of people claiming that the absence of a player not improving performances is a sign of their quality or something. Ronaldo fans too keep popping up hailing him after we lose when he doesn't play. This logic misses the point completely in that nobody is saying one player is the issue but that said player isn't the solution. We don't have any midfielders. Despite my criticism of mctominay in this thread I would definitely start him as he's better than the other barely actual CM options like ancient Matic (although I'd pick him if he's feeling great and it's a low intensity game) and Pogba (not a real CM). So yeah, you can both feel that Mctominay hurts us big time and want him to start (due to a lack of options).

It's a great question.

I think its down to coaching and lack of real leadership.

Aristotle said "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts" (Actually, he didn't, it was closer to "The system I'd something beside, and not the same, as its elements") so it's about a collective cohesive with the team and a clear direction.

Under Ole, we all know how things went: we won either with individual brilliance or swift counter attacks. There was no middle ground.

I also think the system has a part to play in it. None of our center backs are equipped to play in a back four.

I know all about that, as a Scotland fan. For 20 years we played with a back four (to my horror. I grew up in the Craig Brown era where we excelled with a back three). We qualified for nothing. Steve Clarke switches to a back three and in two years we qualify for Euro '20 and we're a couple wins away from World Cup qualification.

Man City and Liverpool are perfect examples of synergy and each player and each unit of their team knowing exactly what their role is and what's expected of them. At United, it's chaos personified and it has been since SAF left.

I think there's too many egos at the club. You get Bruno going into strops, Ronaldo storming down the tunnel like a child, Pogba swaggering around like he's playing a friendly, etc. These instances don't occur at Liverpool or City because they have strong managers who wouldn't tolerate it.

Everything wasn't plain sailing when SAF was in charge: Cantona doing his Bruce Lee impression, players having dust ups behind closed doors, etc) But it never spilled onto the pitch (Literally, the Cantona kick was technically outside the pitch. ) and SAF never allowed things to get toxic or a player to rock the boat. Once a player got too big for his boots, he was out.

We need a manager who will give the players an ultimatum: fall-in-line or leave.

And yeah, you're right. It's time to start backing the players, even if you don't think they should start.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It's a great question.

I think its down to coaching and lack of real leadership.

Aristotle said "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts" (Actually, he didn't, it was closer to "The system I'd something beside, and not the same, as its elements") so it's about a collective cohesive with the team and a clear direction.

Under Ole, we all know how things went: we won either with individual brilliance or swift counter attacks. There was no middle ground.

I also think the system has a part to play in it. None of our center backs are equipped to play in a back four.

I know all about that, as a Scotland fan. For 20 years we played with a back four (to my horror). We qualified for nothing. Steve Clarke switches to a back three and we qualify for Euro '20 and we're a couple wins away from World Cup qualification.

Man City and Liverpool are perfect examples of synergy and each player and each unit of their team knowing exactly what their role is and what's expected of them. At United, it's chaos personified and it has been since SAF left.

I think there's too many egos at the club. You get Bruno going into strops, Ronaldo storming down the tunnel like a child, Pogba swaggering around like he's playing a friendly, etc. These instances don't occur at Liverpool or City because they have strong managers who wouldn't tolerate it.

Everything wasn't plain sailing when SAF was in charge: Cantona doing his Bruce Lee impression, players having dust ups behind closed doors, etc) But it never spilled onto the pitch (Literally, the Cantona kick was technically outside the pitch. ) and SAF never allowed things to get toxic or a player to rock the boat. Once a player got too big for his boots, he was out.

We need a manager who will give the players an ultimatum: fall-in-line or leave.

And yeah, you're right. It's time to start backing the players, even if you don't think they should start.

Agree with a lot of that however one important thing to note - while a quality manager can pull the collective one direction through his vision and excusiok of it, don't you feel they also tend to need certain types of players to make it happen? For example Pep getting rid of Hart quickly. Or not fancying Aguero's lack of pressing initially. I'd hope ETH can transform Mcotminay but at the same time I do wonder whether possession footy can be played to a good level with players who struggle to pass well.

 

[Chripper]

Agree with a lot of that however one important thing to note - while a quality manager can pull the collective one direction through his vision and excusiok of it, don't you feel they also tend to need certain types of players to make it happen? For example Pep getting rid of Hart quickly. Or not fancying Aguero's lack of pressing initially. I'd hope ETH can transform Mcotminay but at the same time I do wonder whether possession footy can be played to a good level with players who struggle to pass well.

Absolutely. You make two great examples.

I think it's all up in the air. The mismanagement is such that we simply don't know who wil be culled and who will step up.

It'll be interesting to find out.

At any massive club, allowing the players to rule the roost is akin to allowing the lunatics ruin the asylum. It has to stop. If the next manager doesn't re-energize the club, repair it and set it down a clear path, I have visions of us being like Liverpool were in the 90s.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Absolutely. You make two great examples.

I think it's all up in the air. The mismanagement is such that we simply don't know who wil be culled and who will step up.

It'll be interesting to find out.

At any massive club, allowing the players to rule the roost is akin to allowing the lunatics ruin the asylum. It has to stop. If the next manager doesn't re-energize the club, repair it and set it down a clear path, I have visions of us being like Liverpool were in the 90s.

Thats why more than signing top players this summer we need to sign 3-4 players ETH needs in key positions to be able to play his brand of footy. I don't know enough about that to say. In one of his interviews he said it can change from club to club so don't know how fixed or specific his ideas are.

 

[Chripper]

Thats why more than signing top players this summer we need to sign 3-4 players ETH needs in key positions to be able to play his brand of footy. I don't know enough about that to say. In one of his interviews he said it can change from club to club so don't know how fixed or specific his ideas are.

Yep. We need good characters and players that we can trust.

One thing is for sure, it'll be an interesting journey.

 

[jeepers]

He has a pretty high ceiling in him, wether he can play like that consistently and build up his confidence over a longer period is the question that lingers around him.
Also he's better utilized against offensive teams where there is more space in between two boxes where he excels. He's kinda pointless against low block so I'd say he should be more of a squad player which is fair when you look at his ability and the ability needed to play every week for a side striving to be the best.

I agree mostly, whilst he does have a decent ceiling, he hits it only once in a while, maybe once in ten to fifteen games? That’s just not good enough. I’m hoping that ETH can coach him into a more consistent player. He’s 25 and is pretty much first choice (at the moment; due to us having crap and so few options), so he needs be better on average. Of course, not playing as a DM/holding midfielder would help as well, because he’s not a holding midfielder.

If ETH does get a holding midfielder, and assuming Bruno will always play, then that leaves one midfield position for Fred/McT/likely DvdB, which means it would be even harder to maintain consistency when there are less minutes.

 

[Highfather_24]

Try him as a CB, ala Mascherano/Javi Martinez.

Just not good enough on the ball to be a midfielder for a top club.

 

[Thiagoal]

I think Scotty is perfectly suited to a ‘backs to the wall’ scenario. He gets about the pitch and can a be a nuisance. He also has some value in games that are blood and thunder (like Leeds away this season). However, if Ten Hag comes in and wants to play a possession based game where he’ll need midfielders super confident receiving the ball in tight areas then he can’t have such a limited player technically in there! He needs a Michael Carrick type.

 

[Lentwood]

The six good players are carrying these five average players and this is why a lot of the good players are getting really really pissed off at united and why the dressing room is so messed up.

I bet the players you think are the "six good players" are the players I think are the six players that need to go.

First on my list would be Ronaldo, Pogba, Rashford, Martial, Cavani and I'd probably try and shift DDG too, if I could find a taker.

Then next it would be the likes of DvdB, Pellistri and Amad who aren't suited to Premier League football.

 

[Rolaholic]

Bump

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Andycoleno9]

Seriously; do our managers MUST play certain amount of academy player? That is only explanation for him playing for United

 

[Ish]

The mind still boggles how this guy is a midfielder for a prem club, let alone a club of our stature

 

[wolvored]

His potential is scottish league and thats where we ought to send him asap

 

[Rolaholic]

His national team don't even believe he's worthy or capable of playing in midfield for them but we're expected to have him be a midfield fixture for United??

 

[OrcaFat]

The best thing we can say about him is that there are worse players than him at one of the greatest clubs in the world. He keeps getting selected, albeit in a team playing badly, by several managers, and that is an achievement of sorts.

He has some positive attributes but he is not cleverer enough or technically good enough. Doesn’t half show how thin we have been in CM these last years.

 

[The White Pele]

I start to think with McTominay that there have been better players before and after McTominay from the academy that haven’t had a fraction of the opportunities he has had to play for Manchester United before being moved on.

It’s almost the case that he found himself in the squad due to a run of poor midfield recruitment during the worst period of our recent history and now that he has established himself and aggregated a significant number of appearances he simply exists as a Manchester United first team player without anyone at the club seemingly questioning whether that should be the case.

Worse still, he has now somehow over the last couple of seasons inherited the status of first team regular due to the departure of Herrera, the ageing of Matic, the unreliability of Pogba and the failure of Van De Beek. The bar has rarely been lower to start every week for Manchester United.

I like McTominay but it has been a hell of a long time now since he had anything resembling good form for a period of at least 3 games.

It is worrying that this level is rewarded in such a way.

 

[Stacks]

He was the pre season hero with people arguing he is a useful squad player. He isn't. When on the pitch he offers very little so I don't see what he offers a squad like ours. Like what does he do though?

 

[Siorac]

The best thing we can say about him is that there are worse players than him at one of the greatest clubs in the world.

Not in the starting XI there aren't.