He is only getting games because our midfield is the worst in decades. I am not sure what is there to argue about, it's clear as day he just doesn't have the technical ability to be a regular player for at least TOP 10 teams in the league. He will be nowhere near the first team if we get ETH.
McTominay - what’s his potential?
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At least my opinion seems to be backed up by our most successful manager in the club's history, along with multiple other managers, so yeah there's always that.
So it's McTs fault entirely we haven't won a trophy in that time then?
Would the story have changed had we won the Europa League under Ole?
I mean multiple managers have picked him repeatedly, and you counter that by saying we haven't won a trophy so the managers opinions count for little?
How about the fans opinion then, how about yours? What have you achieved in football in that time to enable your opinion to be fact?
You keep saying this, but we've already established that he's good enough to get picked in this current United midfield (with 4 options for 2 positions, and literally 0 new signings in the last 4 years). And that he's good enough to get picked for Scotland (although not always as a midfielder).
I don't think this is some sort of incontrovertible proof that he's good enough for a club aiming to compete at the top of the league.
I admire your attempts to keep a level head here and some of the criticism of McTominay is over-the-top. But he's just not very good - useful squad player to keep around, sure, but in the current starting XI he's one of the easiest ones to improve on.
I have never stated he is world class or an excellent player, and yes he can be improved upon, but he is an extremely useful squad player who is more than good enough to play for United.
Let's not forget he has been a member of the team for a while now and in that time we have finished second in the league and reached a European final. Not a trophy admittedly but surely proves his worth to a degree.
Also in that time he made the Europa League team of the season, won an award which Jose wanted to give to McT himself and scored some important goals in big games.
To say he's not very good is churlish and flying in the face of actual evidence to suggest otherwise.
Now, If you said he isn't very good some of the time but pretty decent the rest, then that would be someway close to the truth.
Everybody else in this squad has finished second and reached a European final too (apart from Sancho - I don't think he's reached a final yet?). Not all of them are good enough for a top club.
People are making arguments against McTominay based on weaknesses in his individual game, and you keep saying he gets picked by Scotland and was consistently picked by 4 consecutive United managers (extremely liberal use of "consistently" by the way, if we're counting Carrick and Mourinho in that four). Unless you're just getting hung up on semantics and thinking when I say he's "not very good" I mean he's not a Premier League-level player, I'm not sure what you think that proves - we're all surely agreed that none of United's central midfielders are particularly great.
Let's not keep going on about this as well, please.
Jose gave him 13 league appearances (7 starts, a grand total of 630 minutes) the season he made up that award - it was very obviously not based on performances or importance to the team.
At best, McTominay should only fit the bill as our 4th CB in a proper squad rotation. Playing as a midfielder is too demanding for him when it comes to engagement and footballing IQ, but the game could be far simpler for him as a CB.
I like McTominay. He's a useful workhorse player. He's hit his best, I'd say, already.
If well coached he could be a useful squad player. Has the fight, stamina and strength. Excellent at breaking the lines past players but lacks in his passing. Good shot on him too. He has skills we could utilise but he’s basically been tasked with running a midfield alongside a very similar player in Fred. Have him play a defined role and he’ll do decent.
It's not McTominay's fault entirely, but he's currently a part of the problem in midfield for reasons I've already given. He's inconsistent, gives possession away too much in dangerous positions with bad passing, and he doesn't make himself available enough with good movement and awareness for the defenders, which invites pressure onto the defence making it easier for the opposition to keep possession in the first third and force mistakes. He also takes too many touches and isn't gifted enough at passing to dictate tempo. I've never said the managers opinions count for little because they haven't won a trophy, I'm saying that a manager's selections and choices are allowed to be questioned when they keep on using the same solution to fix a problem without any success. Solskjaer had a shocker in the final by not making any subs until the 100th minute, but by your logic it was the correct decision because he's a manager.
Think his best position would probably be as one of two 8s in a 433. Like him a lot, in the same way that I like Fred - big heart, team player, has given us a few good memories already.
I’ve had high hopes for him in the past but his weaknesses don’t want to go away. He needs to keep developing and continue as a useful squad player. If we sign someone to improve the midfield and McT ends up getting 15 starts a season, that would be okay with me.
Could there be a future in using him as an impact sub - bring him on as an attacking 8 to get forward, shoot, get in the box? He’s often looked best bursting forward and he has the physical qualities to take advantage of tiring opponents.
Still, it might be easier just to sign a couple of decent midfielders and stop thinking about it.
I’ve had high hopes for him in the past but his weaknesses don’t want to go away. He needs to keep developing and continue as a useful squad player. If we sign someone to improve the midfield and McT ends up getting 15 starts a season, that would be okay with me.
Could there be a future in using him as an impact sub - bring him on as an attacking 8 to get forward, shoot, get in the box? He’s often looked best bursting forward and he has the physical qualities to take advantage of tiring opponents.
Still, it might be easier just to sign a couple of decent midfielders and stop thinking about it.
McTominay doesn't pass my eye test, he is clumsy and unaware of surrounding. He gets caught will pressing forward and midfield. I don't even know what role he plays in midfield. There a bunch of midfielders better than him. He doesn't know how to play a quick 1-2, doesn't know how to body feint to drift around players. Only thing about him is physical and good for defending a corner. He is hardly a threat for corner.
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I'm guessing that it's considerably less than £179.6m
Do you normally mention wages in terms of what a player cost? Are you an accountant?
Good catch.
I said "cost £0". (In transfer fees, not wages. But you probably knew that.)
I'm guessing that it's considerably less than £179.6m
Do you normally mention wages in terms of what a player cost? Are you an accountant?
A professional football player that cant put a simple pass can't be called "footballer" IMO
Also as a one that seems like a leader and un scared or frightened outward - The guy is hiding himself from the ball every single game and we need to call it what it is.
Also as a one that seems like a leader and un scared or frightened outward - The guy is hiding himself from the ball every single game and we need to call it what it is.
Yeah "that" being the fact that Mctominay never played under Sir Alex and that those other managers failing miserably at United, and not his actual mediocre performances in a rotten Manchester United midfield, which haven't been good enough.
Would love to hear about how highly you rate Bebe and Djemba x2 "coz someone else thought they were good".
Given our current standards and what we’ve become as a club, United is a club appropriate for MCT’s level of playing. Average top half side. He won’t get near the first team squad of a top 3 team.
He should he ideally be that 4th/5th choice option that we use to break up certain games and add muscle to the midfield. Given you can't fix a midfield in one summer we should have this midfield next year
New CM
New CM
Fred
Mctominay
Matic / Mjebri
And I suppose one can only hope that playing under a manager who encourages possession he learns and improves. But I don't have high hopes based on what I've seen.
New CM
New CM
Fred
Mctominay
Matic / Mjebri
And I suppose one can only hope that playing under a manager who encourages possession he learns and improves. But I don't have high hopes based on what I've seen.
shocking player, technically no where near good enough for this club.
where have the standards gone for this fan base? we have the likes of Garner and Hannibal coming through who will easily push him out.
one of the easiest ways i like to judge wether a player is good enough is asking yourself, " if he played for another club, would we be linked with him?"
we are manchester united, the biggest club in the world.. look back to the 99 and 08 teams, this lad wouldnt get on the bench for those teams but is starting now and we wonder why our team is performing the way it is .
where have the standards gone for this fan base? we have the likes of Garner and Hannibal coming through who will easily push him out.
one of the easiest ways i like to judge wether a player is good enough is asking yourself, " if he played for another club, would we be linked with him?"
we are manchester united, the biggest club in the world.. look back to the 99 and 08 teams, this lad wouldnt get on the bench for those teams but is starting now and we wonder why our team is performing the way it is .
Why single out Scott McTominay?
If any of our players played for another club, which one(s) would you buy?
I have to admit I'm quite interested in the answer to this question too because I don't think he does.
The problem is not Mctominay not being useful, the problem is that Mctominay shouldn't be starting our games.
Some people blame the player for that (no surprise as this is all some people or 'fans' do) - whilst some blame more the way the club is run, it's lack of quality transfers and managers.
Some people blame the player for that (no surprise as this is all some people or 'fans' do) - whilst some blame more the way the club is run, it's lack of quality transfers and managers.
I think the fact that a lot of media stories are reporting Utd are after at least 2 starting CM means the likes of the board don't consider McTom anld/or Fred good enough to be starting regularly. 2 already established midfielders bought in won't be coming to sit on the bench regularly.
I also think this season has shown how poor the CM is as well.
I also think this season has shown how poor the CM is as well.
Wow, I think you need to step away from United to be honest mate.
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about the club that's clouding any rational judgement you have.
I have no desire to continue this conversation about an academy graduate of the club with someone who obviously doesn't doesn't like the club.
Not many of our players would pass that particular test.
Could be our future "Technical Director".
Well maybe not now but they have at some point considering we’ve bought them. McT is from the academy and would never have been bought by us on playing merits.
Players being good enough for Manchester United by virtue of us having bought them isn’t really the best way to gauge a player. Especially with our transfer record.
Sure thing. As opposed to "because XYZ said so" being a good representation of a rational judgement.Yes, obviously I don't like the club and need to step away from it. Desperate thing to say to when you can't deal with someone disagreeing with your arbitrarily formed view.
‘You don’t like the club because your opinion is different to mine’ is a great argument
Yes, obviously I don't like the club and need to step away from it. Desperate thing to say to when you can't deal with someone disagreeing with your arbitrarily formed view.
.Almost as bad as ‘this player must be good because a manager sometimes plays them’.
McTominay should be nowhere near first team football for this club IF they want to compete for the title/UCL etc. If we want to keep languishing in mid table mediocrity, then absolutely keep playing him.
I have no issue with someone disagreeing with me, but when you are also calling out the most successful manager the club has had as being misguided it's a different sentiment.
Yes, obviously I don't like the club and need to step away from it. Desperate thing to say to when you can't deal with someone disagreeing with your arbitrarily formed view.
But the general feeling of disdain you give the club appears to be born out of genuine contempt for it. Calling the shirt rotten for example.
Just bizarre.
I'm done and will leave you to fester in your own hatred for McT.
This was also my take. You (or rather, @luke511 ) finds a twitter feed that has been set up with the sole focus of finding any footage that can be used against McTominay; it is the literal definition of agenda posting. The one he posted after the Villa game (I think it was Villa), there was a clip where McTominay receives the ball under pressure, turns two opposition players and then dribbles past a third, hits a switch to the opposite flank (not a great pass), but the receiver slips and it goes out for a throw. You could take the first 10 seconds of that (him taking on multiple players) and make him look like a world beater. Or you could do what that twitter thread and the agenda posters did, which is to cut out all of that and just show the pass (which even then wasnt solely McTominays fault).
The groupthink in this place has been problematic for a few years now. A given line or opinion gets repeated enough times that people just take it as fact, and use confirmation bias to try to justify it. Its willful ignorance and mental gymnastics at times.
Fletch was twice the player
Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal-not good enough even for the bench
West Ham- Soucek, Rice, Lanzini. Nope
Wolves. Neves, Moutinho, Dendoncker. Nope
Palace. Kouyate, Gallagher, Schlupp,, Eze. Nope
Leicester. Maddison, Tielemans, Ndidi. Nope
Villa. McGinn, Luiz, Coutinho, Buendia. Nope
Newcastle with all their money, will raise their standards for midfielders so ..nope.
That is 11 team in which he would not start for sure and would be (at best) on the bench.
Man Utd midfielder, even if he is squad rotation option, must be nailed starter for most PL teams (outside top 4 teams of course).
I adore Sir Alex. I just don't base my opinions like common sheep based on what he possibly thinks of a player he never even managed.
Contempt, disdain
Look, if someone sees potential in Mctominay it's fine. To each his own. But for me, he is 25 and no longer a kid, and based on his performances has displayed enough technical mediocrity for his quality of being a Manchester United starter/rotational player to be questioned. I'd love it if ETH coaches him into becoming something we can't yet see, but all we can judge right now is what we do indeed see. And for me, I see him as emblematic of our current issues - clumsy, loose technique, needs many touches to keep the ball moving, a bad passer, neither excels defensively nor offensively. As of now, I'd say Fred is good enough to be part of the the four main CMs (ideally backup to a better duo but we can't move that fast) we should have, whereas Mctominay is not. Let's see how it pans out under ETH as he's not going anywhere, so we can only hope he comes on leaps and bounds rather than gets further exposed. What I find odd, is basing one's view on whether a player has been part of our team or not. And then claiming I detest SAF/the club‘You don’t like the club because your opinion is different to mine’ is a great argument
Almost as bad as ‘this player must be good because a manager sometimes plays them’.
McTominay should be nowhere near first team football for this club IF they want to compete for the title/UCL etc. If we want to keep languishing in mid table mediocrity, then absolutely keep playing him.
That's a bit strange.Sir Alex did appoint Moyes so it depends what you are calling him out for. Sir Alex said Phil Jones will be our best ever, raved about Lingard so any comments on McTominay should also bear in mind he plays for Scotland. He also refused to give Pogba chances who subsequently went straight into a Juve midfield that was superior to our. The point is call out what is deserved and praise where praise is warranted
Deferring to authority is brainless because we should be able to assess things ourselves. no one is flawless.
exactly. He hyped up Lingard too.I adore Sir Alex. I just don't base my opinions like common sheep based on what he possibly thinks of a player he never even managed.
Contempt, disdain
Quoted for truth.
We've brought 13 midfielders since SAF retired, and only one of them has been a success - no prizes for guessing who. 1 out of 13 is a weak statistic for any club, but for United, a club with the resources to buy the best midfielders in Europe, it's disgraceful. Ed Woodward, the self-appointed DoF, has much to answer for.
Mctominay is perfectly capable of performing a squad role at the club, as is Fred, but neither should be regular starters for a side with aspirations of challenging for the league title, and they certainly should not be the go-to pairing for the majority of our games. It's not their fault, though. Look to the higher-ups if you want to find someone to blame. Again, no prizes for guessing who.
Wishful thinking but I’m really hoping Ten Hag sees how limited he is technically and green lights his departure.
The way his career has gone though he will probably replace Maguire as captain.
The way his career has gone though he will probably replace Maguire as captain.
Right, you could say the Aston Villa one was taken out of context a little bit (it still displayed a weakness in his game quite well), there's enough examples there from this season to back up my point and for it not to be taken out of context. Call it an agenda I'm not arsed, I was just backing up with visual evidence, that seems to be a crime maybe because it's all come from one source and it's against club darling McTominay. I've formed my opinion by watching him play regularly for the last few years, no external source has done the thinking for me thanks.