MEN: Inside the worst Man Utd season in decades

Fortitude

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I don't think there's much question that most of it is materially true.

For one, a lot of it echoes Laurie Whitwell's own more extensive article in The Athletic yesterday. And second, it is accompanied by public comments from both Mata and De Gea this week that also seem to allude to issues in the dressing room. Two players you would suspect are not prone to bitching about teammates to journalists.

And aside from all that, we've actually been playing like a team with these sort of issues. I don't think we could be this shit unless these sort of problems were rife.
Yes, it's definitely not bs for clicks and is coming from verifiable sources or you don't stick your neck on the line with such an explosive piece and the invariable consequences if you're lying.

As you say, all comments out of the dressing room from players who don't tend to speak, are horrendous too.

It needs knocking down. It's enough now. Leave as much of this in the past as possible, players all.
 

Elcabron

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I don't believe that the problems are as insurmountable as some on here are suggesting. Yes it's a total mess at the moment but the issues can be fixed quickly with a strong minded manager who will be very fair but very firm. Jose, Ole and Ralph were neither and all had their favourites which, as this article points out led to divisions within the squad.

There are some basic things ETH needs to do the which will go along way to solving the issues

1. Outline expectations to each player and be consistent with it. If a player is not performing then drop him, simple as.
2. Sell whichever players you don't trust. Don't keep the likes of Bailey if you don't trust him, as it is not fair to him.
3. Let the players know who is boss and it's your way or the high way. I really hope he does this quickly and gets them all in line and singing from same hymn sheet from the off.

If the above happens and if the three or four signings we make this summer are the right ones along with top class coaching, then a lot of the noise will go away.

I hope ETH can do this. Conte has done it for spurs very quickly, look at the difference just one signing has made there.
 
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JPRouve

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Yes, it's definitely not bs for clicks and is coming from verifiable sources or you don't stick your neck on the line with such an explosive piece and the invariable consequences if you're lying.

As you say, all comments out of the dressing room from players who don't tend to speak, are horrendous too.

It needs knocking down. It's enough now. Leave as much of this in the past as possible, players all.
There is something interesting in that article, it says that Ronaldo's gravitas was largely appreciated particularly by the younger players but... "Cristiano Ronaldo suggests younger Manchester United players dislike criticism"

Personally I'm sure that there are issues behind the scene but I also think that MEN largely write BS for clicks and that includes that article.
 

crossy1686

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There is something interesting in that article, it says that Ronaldo's gravitas was largely appreciated particularly by the younger players but... "Cristiano Ronaldo suggests younger Manchester United players dislike criticism"

Personally I'm sure that there are issues behind the scene but I also think that MEN largely write BS for clicks and that includes that article.
There aren't many people older than Ronaldo so the reference to younger players by both parties can be perceived as youth players and/or first team players who are younger than him.
 

Solius

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I vaguely remember a player being shoved forward to celebrate but can't remember who it was.
 

groovyalbert

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I don't know why any decent player would want to jump aboard this particular ship right now. Can't see how Ten Hag turns this around in all honesty.
 

VinzentFTW

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Eth need a clean slate. Within 2 years not a single current United player should be at the club. The damage is 100% done. Its no coming back from this. They are all a bunch of sissy narcissists and sosial media clowns. Ten Hag needs his own squad who he can trust.
There has to be some clause in their contract allowing us to terminate them for this kind of distrust and behavior ?
I fecking hate them all.
 

Hawks2008

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For all the bleating about the """""cultural reset""""" we have assembled a truly unlikeable group of players. I'm baffled to think of what what the club saw in these individuals.
 

nainaisson

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Luckhurst is awful. As bad as MEN is now, it's still too good for him. He should be writing at The Daily Star or scummier publications.
 

Mickeza

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Luckhurst regularly goes out for bat for Lingard and Henderson, hated Ole throughout his tenure and still pines for mourinho. He’s a colossal cnut who has extreme biases. Yes, he gets the odd scoop but in general his shite is plucked from his arse. Whitwell’s article was genuinely fantastic whilst this reads like it has come from a gossip columnist.
 

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The MEN had a main article last week about how Air Stewards don't like it when you order a diet coke.
 

Fortitude

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There is something interesting in that article, it says that Ronaldo's gravitas was largely appreciated particularly by the younger players but... "Cristiano Ronaldo suggests younger Manchester United players dislike criticism"

Personally I'm sure that there are issues behind the scene but I also think that MEN largely write BS for clicks and that includes that article.
I think the creative license with Ronaldo is more extensive, but the nuance and little, particular insights, not.

I know it's exceptionally easy to kick this dead horse, but the merit is there and telling the story is damage enough.

If we were just rubbish, there'd be next to no gravitas, but when the politics and factors are flung in, it makes for very concerning reading because why should they [players] then be seen as redeemable if the option is there to completely avoid the subversion via getting rid.
 

Corridor of Uncertainty

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Nah I just watched it and didn't seem to match up, unless it cut away too soon? I think it was Bruno doing the shoving.
Bruno gives him a couple of shoves in this. Although like you I seem to remember another incident this season where a player had to be somewhat forced to celebrate a goal, can't for the life of me think who it was.
 

Solius

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Bruno gives him a couple of shoves in this. Although like you I seem to remember another incident this season where a player had to be somewhat forced to celebrate a goal, can't for the life of me think who it was.
Ok now I've seen the full one it was definitely this that I remember.
 

Smores

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I think it's been obvious for some time now that the players think very highly of themselves and want to do things their own way to the point of ignoring instructions. They externalise blame onto each other and the managers to an unprofessional extent. Thankfully we'll thin the numbers of those to blame but if Ten Hag isn't an immediate success these players will do exactly the same again.

It's a separate debate whether it was right to get an interim that rocked the boat or not (i'd side with yes) but it i do believe only an interim that blew smoke up their asses would have got much out of them. Conte would have called them shit, he did the same to Spurs players but look how they reacted.

Rashford is the one who is going to have to do a mentality shift for me. He's clearly ignored team instructions this season in order to just play in the style he thinks if best for him, walk around conserve energy then sprint on the counter. All he cares about is regaining personal glory and his England spot so Ten Hag is going to have to convince him his way will do that, not that he should have to.
 

L1nk

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And yet still some people will claim it’s all Rangnicks fault. These players are the most disgustingly awful set we’ve ever had, both in ability and attitude
 

pascell

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No other post-Ferguson season has so brutally exposed United's poor planning. The hierarchy had gone too far down the road pandering to players, gauging Ronaldo's thoughts on Antonio Conte in that late October week. Ronaldo, doubtless sensing the increased workload and demands in a season he turned 37, effectively 'blocked' any move for Conte, according to a source.

Surely there is no truth to the above?
Was reported at the time too, so wouldn't surprise me.

Hopefully it was Woodward asking Ronaldo as it was October and he didn't leave until Feb/March, so that wouldn't have been repeated for ten Hag.
 

crossy1686

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I vaguely remember a player being shoved forward to celebrate but can't remember who it was.
So I had a look at our goals from the season in games where we were winning and went on to win. Luckily there's literally a handful of games where this is true, and only one game where a player doesn't celebrate until McTomminay get's in his face. It appears to be Rashford, in the library, with the candlestick.

Two clips here:
https://www.manutd.com/en/videos/detail/marcus-rashford-goal-against-brentford-19-january-2022
https://www.manutd.com/en/videos/de...rcus-rashford-goal-from-brentford-1-man-utd-3

I have a memory of Bruno telling someone to smile though? Maybe I made that up?

Jesse was shoved forward but we weren't winning at that point, but we did go on to win:

 

Gio

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The stuff about Conte and Ronaldo is nonsense - because it infers that Ronaldo didn't want to work hard. When he's the hardest worker in perhaps the entire world of football. We're supposed to believe he didn't want to work with Conte based on this but then supposedly green-lit the recruitment of the guy known for introducing gegenpressing? The most intense form of football. It doesn't add up at all.
Not only that, but Ronaldo is so singularly driven by success that he is unlikely to turn down a world-class manager just to have an easier life with a lesser light. And all of that assumes he'd have any decision-making power, when at best he'd be a consultee amongst many.
 

sullydnl

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Ok now I've seen the full one it was definitely this that I remember.
I think there was also an Elanga goal where Bruno was pushing him towards the fans. But in that case I read it as a "go and get your applause" type push.
 

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JPRouve

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There aren't many people older than Ronaldo so the reference to younger players by both parties can be perceived as youth players and/or first team players who are younger than him.
He named an age group, so unless we ignore that, we know what Ronaldo was talking about.
 

crossy1686

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Revaulx

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Yes, that one seemed to have stronger sources. This one is more opinionated, but its MEN so expected.
The source(s) also seemed more objective in Whitwell’s. I’ve seen Phelan’s name mentioned, which doesn’t feel unlikely.
 

Adisa

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I read that as Bruno got rewarded with a contract despite him saying that. Or, Rashford/Shaw are angling for contracts and coming out with stuff like that. The one about a player receiving criticism and saying Solksjaer was “finished” has to be Rashford, doesn’t it? After OGS mentioned him focusing on his football.
That one was definitely Rashford
 

Salford_Red83

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Post ole, whatever disaster befell United this year, is all on Rangnick. He encouraged the divisiveness in the dressing room, and made no attempt to unite the players.
Absolute nonsense!
Rangnick came in and did exactly what needed to be done - shone a spotlight directly where the blame lies. He wasn't brought in to unite the players and i'm glad he didn't because they would still be getting away with their crap if they'd somehow managed to scrape a top 4 finish.

He might not be a very good manager but he excels in building excellent clubs. Wholesale changes are needed, we've seen the amount of backroom changes that are happening, now its time to focus on the footballing side of the rot.
 

kouroux

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Yeah I haven't heard that before and I think that's bogus. Blocking Conte because he has to work hard at 37 vs accepting Rangnick who is well known for his pressing. Doesn't really make sense.



Has to be one of those. Judging by the fact Rashford got frozen out I'd say it's him.
I have no doubt that many parts of that article are pure figments of the writer's imagination
 

jeff_goldblum

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That article was the equivalent of chucking together a bunch of post-loss ranting and speculation from match/player performance threads. It's completely incoherent, Luckhurst seems to change his mind about who or what is then problem depending on what 'source' he's quoting in that paragraph.

Which isn't surprising, at best "sources close to a player" are going to be parroting the player in question's views, which may or may not be reasonable or well-thought out. Equally, it could be someone reasonably close to the player's interpretation of whatever snippets of gossip have reached them, filtered through their own biases. Or of course the "sources" could know feck all and just be throwing their two cents in to appear ITK/make some cash, or they could be entirely fabricated. Quoting multiple "sources" is inevitably going to lead to a merry-go-round of finger pointing.

The willingness of journalists to print articles entirely based on anonymous shite is part of the problem. We'd be better off not engaging with it. If people are leaking, they're doing so because it gets people talking about a narrative which favours them. It no-one listened, there'd be no benefit to leaking.
 

Solius

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I think there was also an Elanga goal where Bruno was pushing him towards the fans. But in that case I read it as a "go and get your applause" type push.
Yeah you might be right with that one because Elanga was the first that came to my mind.
 

Devil may care

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No matter who you think the exact players are it's obvious we have a huge player problem at the club.
 

Offside

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If this was Liverpool 2010-2016 this would be been their joint 2nd best finish.
 

justsomebloke

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That article was the equivalent of chucking together a bunch of post-loss ranting and speculation from match/player performance threads. It's completely incoherent, Luckhurst seems to change his mind about who or what is then problem depending on what 'source' he's quoting in that paragraph.

Which isn't surprising, at best "sources close to a player" are going to be parroting the player in question's views, which may or may not be reasonable or well-thought out. Equally, it could be someone reasonably close to the player's interpretation of whatever snippets of gossip have reached them, filtered through their own biases. Or of course the "sources" could know feck all and just be throwing their two cents in to appear ITK/make some cash, or they could be entirely fabricated. Quoting multiple "sources" is inevitably going to lead to a merry-go-round of finger pointing.

The willingness of journalists to print articles entirely based on anonymous shite is part of the problem. We'd be better off not engaging with it. If people are leaking, they're doing so because it gets people talking about a narrative which favours them. It no-one listened, there'd be no benefit to leaking.
Are you seriously suggesting we should just ignore all of that on the assumption that it's just made-up journalistic nonsense? That level of negative briefing from a dressing room only happens when there are serious, serious problems in a squad. When that happens, it needs to be taken very seriously indeed. It doesn't even matter if the claims made in the leaks are true and reasonable or not, what matters is that they're being made. It doesn't happen in Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Spurs. And a year ago it wasn't happening in United either.