No, you're right. That was clearly Gerard Pique and Pedro, not the man who was getting 73 goals and 29 assists in a single season (2012) and being their best goal scorer and playmaker at the same time. This site is hillarious sometimes.
Messi at the World Cup - No Ronaldo comparisons!
- Thread starter amolbhatia50k
- Start date
How ironic; "Magic of Messi" is currently on sky sports 1 if anyone is interested 
Indeed. Wasn't this entire argument shot down a couple seasons ago when he scored in 20 odd consecutive league matches to win the title for Barcelona, then returned half injured against PSG to inspire them to the Semi Finals (where they got mollywhopped by Bayern).
Obviously. Football is a team sport and there's never one single reason for a team's success, ever. Such a great side isn't build on one outstanding element. But he was a huge huge reason for their phenomenal domination.
Yeah I was, African and Asian football was nowhere near as strong as it is now, England beat Turkey 8-0 in the 80s, I think the 16th best team in the world today is a lot closer to the best team than was the case in the 80s, I'm not saying it was ever easy to win the World Cup but in the last 20 or so years it's become harder.
I don't think claiming that messi was the largest single factor in Barcelona's success is in any way laughable.
Bayern directly stopped Xavi, by stopping Xavi Messi was unable to work his magic.
That could suggest Barcelona's dominance was dependant even more on Xavi's ability to control a game.
It's duac. Expect the unexpected.
You can doubt Messi at world cups but his club career is phenomenal. Shouldn't even be up for discussion. Obviously Barcas success is due to its fantastic team but Messi is the largest contributor in that team
And during the period when Spain dominate the football world?
Okay.
but it's always about the one scoring the goals, isn't it? like it was Kaka who got all the plaudits (and individual awards) even though he had Pirlo, Seedorf and Gattuso behind him... I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying.
Amol is having a breakdown.
But every forward depends on it's midfield. Without Messi xavi might not have had the player to pass to.
What an odd argument.
What's so funny in that post. Who was it in your opinion, Pinto?
You should read better. I did disservice to no one. Had I said their contributions weren't important, that would have been a disservice. Were talking about a guy who absolutely mauled teams for fun that period. Saying he was their most important factor, isn't doing disservice to anyone.
The whole key to Barcas success is their team ethic in passing and pressing, which is totally detached from any one player, it's a sum of parts.
He is so often that extra bit special, and has been tremendous in the big games, astounding individual figures yes, but football games are often about much more than that, perfectly evidenced throughout this WC.
out of 100% how much is he worth? how much for Xavi, Iniesta, Pep, the 18 other squad members?
@amolbhatia100
@AmarUnderscoreX2
Shocking footballing analysis by yourself. You can make anything fit an argument.
l What are you talking about? Messi was injured and just hovered around the Centre circle, holding on to his hamstring all night long. Xavi got badly outplayed by Scweiny and that is why they were annihilated. PSG were outplaying Barca comfortably at the Camp Nou till a half fit Messi came on and instantly changed the game, taking them to the semi-finals. I think that would suggest Messi was more important than Xavi using your logic.
Not sure what this has to do with Spain so I'll toss that in the irrelevant bin.
What a ludicrous question. How can you quantify it? All the team play their part and all were indispensable. But you cannot argue Messi was the key cog.
Unless you think the laughable part is Barcelona being the most dominant team of all time, on which I won't comment due to my lack of knowledge, your laughing smiley is far more deserving of a laughing smiley than that post.
Admirable that you'd even try and have an objective discussion about this in a Messi thread.
Either you haven't been in many or you have the constitution of a saint.
If you can't quantify it how can you make Messi the leader?
Essentially my exact point.
And yet nothing he's said has been untrue.
They are the people who get the most media attention yes and are rated the highest by "casual" fans. But most people on this forum are good at judging players contributions over 90 minutes. Even xavi for a player of his type get much praise from the press. Messi was obviously the best player in the team but xavi was just as important, the same way modric and di maria were for Madrid this year alongside Ronaldo.
Omg
I'm not talking about the World Cup - but I disagree with the point anyway, that Argie side were in no way an all conquering team of superstars and they faced tough opposition. The actual standard at this World Cup was pretty poor as well, so I don't even think there was too much competition here anyway. Argentina were pretty piss poor throughout the whole tournament but limped into the final due to the lack of quality elsewhere.
But anyway, my point is that you use greater competitiveness as a excuse for Messi's inferior performance internationally, and then in the same paragraph compare his domestic success to Maradona's despite the hugely more competitive situation Maradona was in. Seems odd.
If you view it with a massive messi boner.
I think he's an unbelievable player and the GOAT because I think it's harder to do in this era, but seriously some have totally detached themselves from reality with their bias.
You don't need to quantify it. You're the kind of guy who falls in love with statistics as if they paint the full picture.
I make a judgement by watching the football matches.
Didn't have a bad match or a bad tournament by any stretch. Still, we expect more of him than of any other player - and rightfully so, I suppose. He was a disappointment, all things said and done, but only because he has such an immense potential.
If it weren't for the fact that footballers don't take sabbaticals, I'd say he should take one. He looks out of sorts, there's no doubt about that.
PS Fecking small margins, though. If he'd buried that chance - if Palacio had been a little quicker to react to what was going on when Messi played him through, etc. Fecking small margins.
If it weren't for the fact that footballers don't take sabbaticals, I'd say he should take one. He looks out of sorts, there's no doubt about that.
PS Fecking small margins, though. If he'd buried that chance - if Palacio had been a little quicker to react to what was going on when Messi played him through, etc. Fecking small margins.
By watching football?
Hmmm.
Messi was phenomenal for Barcelona. However I think Xavi was equally as important as Messi in that all dominating side. Best midfielder I've seen at imposing his presence and dominance on any fecking side. Plus his level of performance didn't drop while being the anchor for the Spain team. I can't say any one was significantly more important than the other.
Messi was phenomenal for Barcelona. However I think Xavi was equally as important as Messi in that all dominating side. Best midfielder I've seen at imposing his presence and dominance on any fecking side. Plus his level of performance didn't drop while being the anchor for the Spain team. I can't say any one was significantly more important than the other.
So he couldn't possibly be the biggest factor in their success because Spain had a much stronger 'team' than Argentina? Have a word with yourself
I'm with you, but most would argue that Messi was more influential in that Barca side than Ronaldo was in last year's Madrid team. Not only was Messi their top scorer but also their top assist getter comfortably ahead of Xavi and Iniesta (in some seasons, higher than both of them combined).
I still see your point though. They were vital ofcourse.
I never use or read statistics, but thanks for telling me what kind of guy I am, you absolute weapon.
I think I just appreciate the job of a Xavi in dictating an entire game, or a CB/GK in clean sheets, the unselfish class of an Iniesta, or a whole team/tactics in their style in an equal way to the goal scoring dribbler.
I don't think he is the GOAT. I just think the criticism of Messi, understandably perhaps, is at this moment in time going overboard.
Not really. I'm not a Messi lover. I just am not stupid enough to discount his influence at club level.
All the Barcelona players were brilliant in that spell, but the inspiration for their success came from Messi. You can see that by the performances of the team with him compared to without him.
It's obviously debatable. Some will say xavi and iniesta were the most important part. Some will say tiki taka. Some will say pep's brilliant tweaking of their tactics and some will say messi's genius. I don't see anything outrageous about claiming a guy who broke all sorts of records and played like some playstation cheat, as being the most important one.
Apologies, comment retracted.
Don't get me wrong I appreciate them too. I think Xavi is one of the best midfielders ever. Iniesta is up there with Zidane almost but not quite. But because in my opinion Messi is the key cog doesn't mean I don't appreciate them. I just have a differing opinion. Simple as.