Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Cal?

CR7 fan
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
34,977
The facts are never propaganda man, are pure reallity.
First of all, you know that Zaragoza, Osasuna, Mallorca, etc, are 2nd division teams also right? Then you have the teams like Getafe, Almeria, Celta, Betis, Malaga, etc that are teams that move usually from mid to lower table positions almost every year, clearly not Champions League level teams. And then, you have the Real Madrid, Atletico, Sevilla, Valencia, Villareal that are the teams that are always in UCL or Europa League positions almost every year, and he doesn't gets to 10 goals between them all in Copa del Rey.

Messi has been in 2 Copa del Rey finals vs Real Madrid, and went without scoring or making any kind of impact in both games. Cristiano played in only one of that finals, and he scored the only goal of the match that gave Madrid the Cup.

Then again, From Pep's Barca, the fact is that when Ronaldo got to Real Madrid, Pep had been alreaady one year as the coach winning everything, and Real Madrid was terrible. Still, Ronaldo first season in Madrid, while is true that he didn't win anything, he make the team get 96 points in La Liga, all time record in that time for Real Madrid. The problem is that Pep's Barca made more...

But to tell that Pep's Barca was winning everything because they had Messi has to be one of the biggest lies someone can tell around here, easily demonstrated when you see that Spain's National Team won 2 Eurocups in a row and 1 World Cup between 2008 and 2012, just the same years Pep was in Barca, and they won them all without Messi but with 6 starters from that Barca team. Now tell me what did Messi won in that years without Barca. Or better, what has Messi won in all his career without Barca? Absolutely nothing.
So yes, that Barca team was ruthless because it was made by the Spanish golden generation with, Iniesta, Xavi, Puyol, Busquets, Pique, Villa, etc. They won everything they played in that times with and without Messi...

To tell that Messi is in the same level than Ronaldo with his weak foot looks like a joke, Messi will never score a goal with his right if it is not a tap in, or have you ever seen him make a strong shot outside the box with his weak foot and score? I have never, but I've seen Ronaldo doing it a lot. You only have to see them play to notice that.

Ronaldo is better at the counter because he has demonstrated it for years. Its not only that he is faster.
Mou's Real Madrid was one of the best counterattacking teams ever, also Ancellotti Real Madrid, and in all of them Cristiano was the most important part of them, he usually launched them from corners or free kicks in their own box, and then finished the counter with the goal. There are thousands of videos in youtube of the Real Madrid Counterattacks, if you see some of them you will get clear why Ronaldo is better than Messi in that regard.

You say that they are in the same level in set pieces because one is a great header and the other is a great passer in the corner kicks. Tell me, how often Cristiano scores with his head in set pieces, and how often Messi gets an assist in set piece. One of Madrid's biggests goal threats are the set pieces, and Barca has been since a long time ago, totally threatless in set pieces, so no, they don't nullify anything, it is much much more influential Cristiano in set pieces than Messi.

The last 2 years scoring at an abnormal rate in UCL gave Cristiano 2 Ballon D'Or, 2 FIFA Best Awards, and 2 Champions League Trophies, so then, I don't understand your point. 2 seasons ago CR7 had still 10 Semifinal goals vs Messi's 4.
But Im pretty sure being the topscorer of then UCL in the last 7 years in a row is a lot of time, and a hat trick to Wolfsburg doesn't minimizes anything.

You say that he destroyed in the last 10 years teams like Bayern or Chelsea, but I remember that Chelsea always kicks away Barca whenever they face them in UCL with the exception of this year, and he had never scored them before this year's tie. And Bayern? They won them 3 years ago, but don't forget one year before that, Bayern took them out by winning them 7-0 between the two legs, with Messi in there.
He has only scored 4 goals to them ever, so its hard to tell that he always trashes them.
PSG?? He has only scored them once, in the 7-0 turnaround last year, scoring his only goal with a penalty kick that doesn't even was a foul. He disappeared both games (he made the same vs Juventus the next round) and Barca made the 'remontada' thanks to Neymar, Suarez, and the Referee. Messi just disappeared vs PSG and vs Juve.

The teams Messi has scored the most in Europe are (in that order):
Arsenal, Celtic, AC Milan, Bayer Leverkusen, Ajax.

The teams Cristiano has scored the most in Europe (without taking Atletico into account) are:
Tottenham, Bayern Munich, Schalke, Ajax, Juventus.


Like I said bro, facts are never propaganda, is a fact that both have 5 Ballon D'Or, that both have 4 golden boots, Cristiano has 2 FIFA Best Awards, and a mayor trophy with his NT, Messi dosn't has neither of them. But most important, that Messi's peak was in the times of Pep's Barca. Since that times he has only won 1 Ballon D'Or vs Ronaldo's 4, 1 UCL vs Ronaldo's 3, hasn't outscored Ronaldo in UCL not even once, and hasn't won anithing with his NT while Ronaldo has.

The last years have been hard times for the Messi supporters, you know that my friend...
Great post... :D
 

Deleted member 101472

Guest

JDoe

Full Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
441
Supports
Bayern
This is like comparing white to red wine. We all have our favorite and can't deny one pairs better than the other in particular situations.
No, it's more like comparing the looks of a random cute girl to Miss Universe. Just like only Madrid/United/SCP fans or Portuguese people could ever come to the conclusion that Ronaldo is the better player, only the girl's boyfriend, the girl's ex-boyfriend that is still not over her, as well as her mum and dad would ever honestly think that the random girl is better looking.
 

Peyroteo

Professional Ronaldo PR Guy
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
10,884
Location
Porto, Portugal
Supports
Sporting CP
No, it's more like comparing the looks of a random cute girl to Miss Universe. Just like only Madrid/United/SCP fans or Portuguese people could ever come to the conclusion that Ronaldo is the better player, only the girl's boyfriend, the girl's ex-boyfriend that is still not over her, as well as her mum and dad would ever honestly think that the random girl is better looking.
Is the ex-boyfriend dreaming and just completely made up a new reality or does the metaphor end there?
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,845
Location
Hollywood CA
No, it's more like comparing the looks of a random cute girl to Miss Universe. Just like only Madrid/United/SCP fans or Portuguese people could ever come to the conclusion that Ronaldo is the better player, only the girl's boyfriend, the girl's ex-boyfriend that is still not over her, as well as her mum and dad would ever honestly think that the random girl is better looking.
Not a particularly intelligent analogy given that these two have each won 5 world player of the world awards since 2008.
 

Apocalypse

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
Messages
101
Supports
Chelsea
Players like Messi come around once in a lifetime, they make their peers look ordinary whenever they're on the same pitch. The kind of player you pay to watch even if you can't stand the Club they play for. I don't think you can say the same of Ronaldo, if you ever tune in to watch Real Madrid play it's usually Modric, Isco and Marcelo that get you off your seat.

I'd say for Ronaldo's consistency and incredible exploits in the Champions League over the last four years he's earnt a place in the top 10 greats of all time, whereas Messi's in a mini battle with Maradona and Pele in the top 3. I'm quite certain people were discussing that by the time he was about 22 years old, he's now approaching 31 and his consistency has been at such a high level since he was 19 that it automatically places him there. He's been the main reason Barcelona have won an unprecedented two trebles (potentially three) and have dominated La Liga under four or five different managers, none of whome were what you consider top coaches, even Guardiola at the time.

Also, OT - Speaking as an outsider, would just like to commend Cal on his persistance in the plethora of Messi/Ronaldo threads on this forum. :)
 

Sterling Archer

New Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
4,289
No, it's more like comparing the looks of a random cute girl to Miss Universe. Just like only Madrid/United/SCP fans or Portuguese people could ever come to the conclusion that Ronaldo is the better player, only the girl's boyfriend, the girl's ex-boyfriend that is still not over her, as well as her mum and dad would ever honestly think that the random girl is better looking.
I didn't think you could get more out there with a comparison than mine, but you've done it.

Per your scenario -
Ronaldo has won the Miss Europe competition .
Messi has not won his comparable Miss America pageant.

Neither have then won the global Miss Universe (think WC).

So then Messi is the random cute girl?

I asked this before but unless your Argie, Portuguese or perhaps a die-hard Madrid or Barca fan, why obsess over subjective rankings of two great players like this? It's not even just forum banter, there are incidents of physical violence over this. It's a shameful extremism .
 

Cal?

CR7 fan
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
34,977
No, it's more like comparing the looks of a random cute girl to Miss Universe. Just like only Madrid/United/SCP fans or Portuguese people could ever come to the conclusion that Ronaldo is the better player, only the girl's boyfriend, the girl's ex-boyfriend that is still not over her, as well as her mum and dad would ever honestly think that the random girl is better looking.
It almost like you’ve been living in a cave and failed to note that the football world voted Ronaldo the better player 4 of the last 5 years. :lol:
 

Kinsella

Copy & Paste Merchant
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
2,833
It almost like you’ve been living in a cave and failed to note that the football world voted Ronaldo the better player 4 of the last 5 years. :lol:
No - the Ballon D'or is essentially awarded to the player, from the group of top players in the world, who had the best season, and that 'best season' is directly tied to team success.

It isn't an annual objective assessment to find out who is the actual best player in the world. It's patent nonsense to claim otherwise.
 
Last edited:

Cal?

CR7 fan
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
34,977
No - the Ballon D'or is essentially awarded to the player, from the group of top players in the world, who had the best season, and that 'best season' is directly tied to team success.

It isn't an annual objective assessment to find out who is the actual best player in the world. It's patent nonsense to claim otherwise.
You can make that argument for a single season/year, but when a player was better 80% of the time over 5 years. It’s pretty clear he IS the better player.
 

sullydnl

Ross Kemp's caf ID
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
34,063
Would have guessed the poll would be 80/20 rather than 70/30, even on a site that is bound to be more biased towards Ronaldo than others. Well done him. There was a point a few years ago when it wouldn't even have been that close but he's had a damn fine few seasons.
 

JDoe

Full Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
441
Supports
Bayern
It's like stiring up a hornet's nest, I'm loving it :lol:

Gotta admire the loyalty though, seriously! Cheers guys :)
 

Kinsella

Copy & Paste Merchant
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
2,833
You can make that argument for a single season/year, but when a player was better 80% of the time over 5 years. It’s pretty clear he IS the better player.
No it isn't. Even if your interpretation is indulged then one of those Ballon D'or awards was decisively influenced by having the voting period extended. I can't recall the year exactly but it took the Portugal v Sweden play off into account; in Ronaldo's favour. The other 3 were certainly merited though.

That silliness aside, your argument is fatally undermined by the simple and obvious fact that Ronaldo is past his best as player, and has been for at least a couple of seasons. That isn't a criticism of him as he's now 33 years old, and such relative decline is to be expected, but it rubbishes the idea that the Ballon D'or is an annual objective assessment to find out who is the best player in the world. Rather it's awarded to reflect what I outlined in my previous post.
 

Peyroteo

Professional Ronaldo PR Guy
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
10,884
Location
Porto, Portugal
Supports
Sporting CP
No it isn't. Even if your interpretation is indulged then one of those Ballon D'or awards was decisively influenced by having the voting period extended. I can't recall the year exactly but it took the Portugal v Sweden play off into account; in Ronaldo's favour. The other 3 were certainly merited though.

That silliness aside, your argument is fatally undermined by the simple and obvious fact that Ronaldo is past his best as player, and has been for at least a couple of seasons. That isn't a criticism of him as he's now 33 years old, and such relative decline is to be expected, but it rubbishes the idea that the Ballon D'or is an annual objective assessment to find out who is the best player in the world. Rather it's awarded to reflect what I outlined in my previous post.
Ronaldo's past his best as a player but so is Messi, they're both not as good as they were a few years ago. If the Ballon D'Or is all about trophies why did Messi win it in 2012 and Ronaldo win it in 2013 whilst not winning any trophy? Winning trophies matters, but it is very far away from being the main reason why they award it.

He'd have won it just the same in 2013 even if it wasn't extended and they were right to extend it too.
 

Kinsella

Copy & Paste Merchant
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
2,833
Ronaldo's past his best as a player but so is Messi, they're both not as good as they were a few years ago. If the Ballon D'Or is all about trophies why did Messi win it in 2012 and Ronaldo win it in 2013 whilst not winning any trophy? Winning trophies matters, but it is very far away from being the main reason why they award it.
You're missing the point. If Ronaldo won it whilst being noticeably past his best as a player, and Messi won them before he entered his prime then that merely confirms my previous assertion about the award.

I've always viewed the Ballon D'or as an end of season bauble or trinket for an individual player, so, off the top of my head, I don't know why it was awarded in the years you mention and would have to look into it. That's not me deflecting btw, it's just that I don't give the thing the importance that you do.

He'd have won it just the same in 2013 even if it wasn't extended and they were right to extend it too.
The only reason I remember that one is because it was extended, and that it also had something to do with some press conference or televised talk that Sepp Blatter gave where he made some vaguely unflattering remarks about Ronaldo which was then linked to extending the voting deadline. Or...at least, I think that was what happened.

Why were they right to extend it btw?

There are about 50 in this thread already... see above. Cal? gets a lot of shit because he's in the minority, there are plenty way worse.
They're on the side of common sense Peyroteo, not Messi. ;)
 

Peyroteo

Professional Ronaldo PR Guy
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
10,884
Location
Porto, Portugal
Supports
Sporting CP
You're missing the point. If Ronaldo won it whilst being noticeably past his best as a player, and Messi won them before he entered his prime then that merely confirms my previous assertion about the award.

I've always viewed the Ballon D'or as an end of season bauble or trinket for an individual player, so, off the top of my head, I don't know why it was awarded in the years you mention and would have to look into it. That's not me deflecting btw, it's just that I don't give the thing the importance that you do.
I also don't give it a lot of importance and I disagree with a few of their decisions. I just generally agree with the method behind it and how they pick who's been the best for the year. Making it a calendar year award instead of the whole season makes it not as important as it would be otherwise.

Why were they right to extend it btw?
Not enough people voted which meant they had to extend it, it wasn't some conspiracy to give it to Ronaldo after the Sweden games. They were extending it before those games even happened.

They're on the side of common sense Peyroteo, not Messi. ;)
:D

Picking Messi is fine, to the extent and certainty some do while downplaying everything Ronaldo does, not so much.
 

Kinsella

Copy & Paste Merchant
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
2,833
I also don't give it a lot of importance and I disagree with a few of their decisions. I just generally agree with the method behind it and how they pick who's been the best for the year. Making it a calendar year award instead of the whole season makes it not as important as it would be otherwise.
I agree with you on the calendar year thing. It should be given out at the end of the season or before the beginning of a new season; the latter taking an international tournament into account.

It's hardly an unbiased source but here's a piece on why Messi 'should' win the 2012 award -
https://www.barcablaugranes.com/201...nel-messi-should-win-the-2012-fifa-ballon-dor


Not enough people voted which meant they had to extend it, it wasn't some conspiracy to give it to Ronaldo after the Sweden games. They were extending it before those games even happened.
If not enough people voted then surely that's an indicator that it isn't this all-important thing that some on here make it out to be.


:D

Picking Messi is fine, to the extent and certainty some do while downplaying everything Ronaldo does, not so much.
Ronaldo's in the top 10 of all time imo, so don't include me in the latter company. ;)
 

Cezzine

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
127
Supports
Real Madrid
When you score 10 goals in a UCL between last 8, semis and final, it can be said that your team winning the trophy is in a great part thanks to you. One year before yo also win the tournament and manage to score an all time record of 17 goals in the tournament, having played only 12 games in it, you also deserve it.
Its unfair to say that he won it only because the the team success, because if it wasn't because of him, his team wouldn't have been anywhere near that success.
If Messi had appeared in that kind of games, Barcelona wouldn't had been kicked out 3 Of the last 4 years in quarterfinals.
Cristiano is so influential on the performances of Real Madrid, that when he doesn't performs at his level, they don't win anything, as seen the first half of this season, that is why Real Madrid lost La Liga since December. Cristiano lost the first 5 games, and then only scored 4 goals in 12 games. Then in January he started to perform to his normal level and Madrid started to win everyone.
Its not a coincidence...
 

Acheron

Full Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2016
Messages
2,942
Supports
Real Madrid
Cristiano is so influential on the performances of Real Madrid, that when he doesn't performs at his level, they don't win anything, as seen the first half of this season, that is why Real Madrid lost La Liga since December. Cristiano lost the first 5 games, and then only scored 4 goals in 12 games. Then in January he started to perform to his normal level and Madrid started to win everyone.
Its not a coincidence...
Yeahm, it speaks volumes how dependent we are on him and he's irreplaceable for us.
 

Suhail

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
227
When you score 10 goals in a UCL between last 8, semis and final, it can be said that your team winning the trophy is in a great part thanks to you. One year before yo also win the tournament and manage to score an all time record of 17 goals in the tournament, having played only 12 games in it, you also deserve it.
Its unfair to say that he won it only because the the team success, because if it wasn't because of him, his team wouldn't have been anywhere near that success.
If Messi had appeared in that kind of games, Barcelona wouldn't had been kicked out 3 Of the last 4 years in quarterfinals.
Cristiano is so influential on the performances of Real Madrid, that when he doesn't performs at his level, they don't win anything, as seen the first half of this season, that is why Real Madrid lost La Liga since December. Cristiano lost the first 5 games, and then only scored 4 goals in 12 games. Then in January he started to perform to his normal level and Madrid started to win everyone.
Its not a coincidence...
Lol, they have different roles, if Messi’s job was only to score like Ronaldo then he’d score a lot more, i get that you haven’t watched these players in a regular basis, watch messi in the knockout games in the cl, you’ll see him been man marked in every single game, it doesn’t happen for Ronaldo, not taking anything away from Ronaldo, he’s a great player but come on, you are just simply not educated about these two
 

Deleted member 101472

Guest
I think if you were to take them both out the last decade, then Real Madrid would have absolutely trounced Barcelona in the league. Messi is significantly more important to the way Barcelona play than the way Ronaldo is to real.
 

Enigma_87

You know who
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
27,734
Depend on how you rate both of them really. Going by achievements it's pretty close and it can go both ways. When it comes to peak level and consistency Messi edges it for me in both.

Especially peak level. To me Cristiano is behind both Messi and Fenomeno when it comes to peak, from what I saw in the last 20-30 years, but trumps everybody else when it comes to consistency and resume.

All things considered Messi is right up there with Pele, Maradona, Cruyff and Di Stefano. Still feel Cristiano falls a bit short either of those on the list, but could enter if we keep doing what he's doing and especially in the coming WC.
 

Deleted member 101472

Guest
Depend on how you rate both of them really. Going by achievements it's pretty close and it can go both ways. When it comes to peak level and consistency Messi edges it for me in both.

Especially peak level. To me Cristiano is behind both Messi and Fenomeno when it comes to peak, from what I saw in the last 20-30 years, but trumps everybody else when it comes to consistency and resume.
Yeah that’s one of the things that there can be zero debate on. Messi’s best calendar year is above anything Ronaldo has done, and by a fair margin.
 

Enigma_87

You know who
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
27,734
Yeah that’s one of the things that there can be zero debate on. Messi’s best calendar year is above anything Ronaldo has done, and by a fair margin.
It's pretty hard to topple that to be honest. It was a perfect year, considering no WC as well during that time.
 

Kinsella

Copy & Paste Merchant
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
2,833
If Messi had appeared in that kind of games, Barcelona wouldn't had been kicked out 3 Of the last 4 years in quarterfinals.
Cristiano is so influential on the performances of Real Madrid, that when he doesn't performs at his level, they don't win anything, as seen the first half of this season, that is why Real Madrid lost La Liga since December. Cristiano lost the first 5 games, and then only scored 4 goals in 12 games. Then in January he started to perform to his normal level and Madrid started to win everyone.
Its not a coincidence...
His influence is on the results, not the performances.
 

carvajal

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Messages
11,166
Location
Spain
Supports
Real Madrid
I've been thinking about voting for a few days, but I can´t decide. What are your votes based on? simply who is the best footballer?
 

Charles Miller

Full Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Messages
3,046
The guy with far superior first touch, passing, dribbling, close control, vision and skills in general is the best player.
 

Enigma_87

You know who
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
27,734
I've been thinking about voting for a few days, but I can´t decide. What are your votes based on? simply who is the best footballer?
I'd imagine so. Not sure if it is peak ability or career accomplishments.
 

Peyroteo

Professional Ronaldo PR Guy
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
10,884
Location
Porto, Portugal
Supports
Sporting CP
The guy with far superior first touch, passing, dribbling, close control, vision and skills in general is the best player.
That's why Bas Dost does his job while 50 thousand with far superior first touch, passing, dribbling, close control, vision and skills chant his name in the stands.

Football isn't a set of atributes like on football manager and if it was it would be a much longer list is than that.
 

Peyroteo

Professional Ronaldo PR Guy
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
10,884
Location
Porto, Portugal
Supports
Sporting CP
I think if you were to take them both out the last decade, then Real Madrid would have absolutely trounced Barcelona in the league. Messi is significantly more important to the way Barcelona play than the way Ronaldo is to real.
You can't actually be serious. Barcelona without Messi won just a couple of Euros and 1 World Cup in 4 years... they've had the much superior squad with better players in pretty much every position :wenger:

That's worse than the 'I've seen them both live and Ronaldo's movement is nothing special'. I think it's time to abandon this thread, I give up.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.