Clearly that's what I said, being rest for games is the exact same thing as being taken off?
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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semantics. He was brought off early to be rested wasn't he?Clearly that's what I said, being rest for games is the exact same thing as being taken off?
You just keep tripping yourself up. You're setting yourself up to be laughed at talking about players whining when you're championing one of the biggest whingers in the history of the game.
Messi v Ronaldo
Caf v Cal?
Caf v Cal?
Ronaldo is 100x more sexy then Messi, /closethread.
Nope.
I think it is obvious who is the better 'footballer'. Messi is ahead in terms of ability but Ronaldo has utilised his talents to the same degree of efficiency.
19 tackles to 1 
feck me
feck meBoth are of similar ability. Who you ultimately decide is better probably comes down to which player you prefer to watch. The end.
Naaah.
He is. Only you refuse to admit it in the face of all the overwhelming evidence and everyone's opinion.
However as usual you are right, and the rest of the world is wrong.
Keep it up mate, it's worth the laughs!
Give us a poll(without the c and d and e options please).
It's amusing that even though some of the most prolific posters like FranklyVulgar and Boss have left, 5 years later we're still having the same tedious dick measuring contest.
If yours was as big as mine you'd be waving it about too.
they were both in the Messi camp right? seems you're only chased off if you're on a certain side. Which is what I was alluding too earlier when I was lambasted by various posters whilst Cal? seems to get off rather lightly.
1 tackle in 2000 minutes
Cal's been at it for years upon years now, so we're all used to it... All you can do is laugh.
TBH I actually feel embarrassed for him sometimes.
Messi.
Right. Statistically, it's close, I agree. The following points are why i think Ronaldo is better right now though. However the following statements are all purely opinionated and therefore shouldn't be taken as facts, just a personal opinion.How is it not even a contest? Messi has been just as good, if not better, in 2014/15.
You first with the full, well-structured post
IMHO, Ronaldo has been better simply because he's near-singlehandedly dragged Madrid to their most successful year in modern history. I believe that it doesn't matter if you score a lot of goals, if it means your team doesn't have success. Mainly because players are there to serve their team before going for personal records, and the best way to serve a team is to win them matches and trophies. Ronaldo has done so, along with his individual brilliance.
Now you may hit me back with Messi's World Cup campaign. And you're right, Messi did get them to the final. However a one month competition, no matter how great, is still a one month competition. One month out of twelve. You do the math. Messi was great in the World Cup, but he has to constantly show that, and for me, he just hasn't done that this year. Whenever I've watched him, he hasn't had that 'sparkle'. Of course, this is all still personal opinion/bias.
And finally, stats. While I don't like people basing their opinion on a player based solely on stats, I believe that dtats still have to be taken into consideration when comparing two players. Statistically, Ronaldo has had a better year and season so far, and in less games. Of course, you might put this down to Madrid having a superior squad to Barca, but IMO, the difference isn't as huge as some are making out them to be. I believe that the Messi of 2012 would have hit Ronaldo-heights or even higher even in this current Barca team; his standards have dropped, that's undeniable.
So there, those are my arguements for why think Ronaldo is currently better than Messi. Is that well-structured enough for you?
(near) Single-handedly the reason why Real are having a tremendous season?
haha yeah, nah.
haha yeah, nah.
That just isn't true. Take both players out of their respective teams and Real still win that league 9 times out of 10. Where was he in dragging them to their win over Atletico in the CL final?Right. Statistically, it's close, I agree. The following points are why i think Ronaldo is better right now though. However the following statements are all purely opinionated and therefore shouldn't be taken as facts, just a personal opinion.
IMHO, Ronaldo has been better simply because he's near-singlehandedly dragged Madrid to their most successful year in modern history. I believe that it doesn't matter if you score a lot of goals, if it means your team doesn't have success. Mainly because players are there to serve their team before going for personal records, and the best way to serve a team is to win them matches and trophies. Ronaldo has done so, along with his individual brilliance.
Now you may hit me back with Messi's World Cup campaign. And you're right, Messi did get them to the final. However a one month competition, no matter how great, is still a one month competition. One month out of twelve. You do the math. Messi was great in the World Cup, but he has to constantly show that, and for me, he just hasn't done that this year. Whenever I've watched him, he hasn't had that 'sparkle'. Of course, this is all still personal opinion/bias.
And finally, stats. While I don't like people basing their opinion on a player based solely on stats, I believe that dtats still have to be taken into consideration when comparing two players. Statistically, Ronaldo has had a better year and season so far, and in less games. Of course, you might put this down to Madrid having a superior squad to Barca, but IMO, the difference isn't as huge as some are making out them to be. I believe that the Messi of 2012 would have hit Ronaldo-heights or even higher even in this current Barca team; his standards have dropped, that's undeniable.
So there, those are my arguements for why think Ronaldo is currently better than Messi. Is that well-structured enough for you?
Or the semi-final against Bayern he was literally invisible for both legs and grabbed 2 goals when the tie was put to bed from a free kick and a tap in from Bale setting him up.
He is more of a luxury player than anything else, great when your on top but when your backs are up against the wall like Atletico in the final for example he has no effect on the game.
Di Maria, Ramos and Modric carried him through that game in the final but of course he scores a penalty when the game is 3-1 in the dying minutes of extra time and people will say Ronaldo scored in that game and played well.
There is no way a player like that can be the best in the world when Messi is around it's as simple as that.
This is it, it's tough to fully describe him as such but he is mainly a finisher of chances, he waits to be fed. When I think Real and Ronaldo's improving stats all I have observed is that his team has gotten better and now creates more chances so he scores more.
Messi is tactically better, Technically much better, he statistically put up similar stats and he is more important to his team. Messi is Barca's best playmaker AND main goal threat. I don't even know how it is close for some. If you watch their games, the quality of the goals scored by each and the influence each player has on his team Messi is clearly the better player. People who think it is close between the two only read the stats.
Ronaldo @United was a much more dynamic player who got involved a lot in the game. He used to take on defenders, used to go on solo runs. His game has changed a lot since he moved to Madrid. Technically he's a winger/wide forward, but he has more shots on goal than anyone else in the world and basically a CF for them now.
Yep, stats dictates people's opinions these days rather looking at the bigger picture of how they actually are performing over the 90 minutes of a game. People only care about goals now if u dont score u had a bad game which is a ridiculous thing to say really.
I agree it's not even close between the 2 of them as Messi is just on a completely different level to Ronaldo, the only thing Ronaldo is doing is keeping up in number of goals other than that Messi outperforms him on pretty much everything.
I would also argue that cut off the service to both players and Messi would still be putting up very high numbers any way as he is able to get around the pitch so well and make his own goals rather than relying on service from his team mates.
He is also playing playmaker for his team like u said and the whole flow of Barca's game goes through him.
Very interesting, wonder if anyone is going to track this in future. I would also like to get Atletico into this mix of teams.
How
A list which includes all those years pre-wink that Ronaldo was just a winger?
As a winger (he isn't a winger now by any stretch of imagination) you would have expected CR to assist more. His goals scored aren't less by any means, it's his assist numbers which look very less than what it should be for a winger.
I agree with you on this at least.Ohh no (Messi thread closed)!! This can't happen. You can't have 2 opposing fan groups going full throttle at each other
I think it's good to have some different views and counter arguments. Otherwise the thread would be boring if everyone is just jizzing over Messi. I would also like someone like Cal to point out his flaws and issues once in a while. As long as someone isn't on troll-campaign, I have no issues to hear and debate.
Excluding penalties and tap ins
Jesus Christ, some people are really, really fecking mental when it comes down to those two, it's almost as our Mickey Mouse semi final match against Sunderland didn't teach you that scoring penalty is not that easy.
Jesus Christ, some people are really, really fecking mental when it comes down to those two, it's almost as our Mickey Mouse semi final match against Sunderland didn't teach you that scoring penalty is not that easy.
Cal? going absolutely nuts over this again, priceless.
Hahahahahhahaha keep the excuses coming. Messi came through as a youngster too, you know.
Not Messi's fault Ronaldo took time to develop his game. Keep moving those goal posts though.
It's the gift that keeps on giving.
So Messi has scored a few more goals this season (excluding penalties), and has the same number of assists. That’s even for me. The only stats which I would point out is successful dribbles (123 to 42) and tackles (19 to 1) for Messi. In my opinion that shows you the picture- Ronaldo transformation into a striker has been completed.
I am quite surprised so many people base their opinions on who scores more goals. And yes, IMO the penalties should be excluded. If, for example, a significant part of those penalties were won by Ronaldo, I would say it’s a fair argument. But I don’t think that’s the case.
Actually watching Real Madrid those days I think the vast majority of the build-up play does not go through Ronaldo at all. In Madrid, the tough job is done by Kroos, Bale, Isco, Benzema, James and Bale. It’s the complete opposite for Barca and Messi. Also, I don’t think Ronaldo has reached new heights in the last 2 years, it’s just the system and role suits him perfectly. I liked his style more when he was a winger.
However, Ronaldo is by far the best striker in the world, considering his movement and finishing. Messi will never be anything like that, because he’s not as exceptional athlete.
Out of curiosity, I wonder if people who think Ronaldo is better would take him ahead of Messi? Because that would be completely insane if you ask me.
Cheers
I am quite surprised so many people base their opinions on who scores more goals. And yes, IMO the penalties should be excluded. If, for example, a significant part of those penalties were won by Ronaldo, I would say it’s a fair argument. But I don’t think that’s the case.
Actually watching Real Madrid those days I think the vast majority of the build-up play does not go through Ronaldo at all. In Madrid, the tough job is done by Kroos, Bale, Isco, Benzema, James and Bale. It’s the complete opposite for Barca and Messi. Also, I don’t think Ronaldo has reached new heights in the last 2 years, it’s just the system and role suits him perfectly. I liked his style more when he was a winger.
However, Ronaldo is by far the best striker in the world, considering his movement and finishing. Messi will never be anything like that, because he’s not as exceptional athlete.
Out of curiosity, I wonder if people who think Ronaldo is better would take him ahead of Messi? Because that would be completely insane if you ask me.
Cheers
Well said.
That's a good question actually. If we were offered both for the same price, whom would you choose?
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