Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Gehrman]

What is the goals per game ratio like between these two. The stats just show the number of goals but not related to the number of games played

Messi has a 0.78 ratio while Ronaldo has around a 0.72 ratio

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Messi is like 0.78 ratio while Ronaldo is around 0.72

Ah thanks.

 

[Pickle85]

Yes, these managers have suffered failures in the decade since they've managed Ronaldo like anyone does but to pretend they weren't top managers when they managed Real Madrid is ridiculous. Jose Mourinho was the elite manager who had just won a treble for Inter, Ancelotti had won the PL and Ligue Un in the two jobs he had prior to managing Ronaldo. It's funny that you made a list of their failures but fail to mention that Mourinho and Ancelotti both won elite leagues after managing Ronaldo, just as SAF and Zidane did. Only Guardiola has won anything after managing Messi, the likes of Setien, Enrique, Valverde etc have won 0 trophies since managing Messi. So not only had Ronaldo's managers had way better records before managing him (World cup, multiple CLs, multiple leagues etc), they also have better records after as well. Once again, you have no argument here...

What jobs did they go on to after Barca Vs what jobs ancelotti and mou went on to?

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

What is the goals per game ratio like between these two. The stats just show the number of goals but not related to the number of games played

Messi has a significantly higher goals per game average.
Messi has 748 goals in 929 matches.
Ronaldo has 783 goals in 1073 matches.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

What jobs did they go on to after Barca Vs what jobs ancelotti and mou went on to?

After managing Barcelona Rijkaard managed in Turkey and for Saudi Arabia, Martino managed in the MLS and the Mexico national team, Sampaoli has managed in Brazil and for Marseille while Luis Enrique manages Spain.

Meanwhile, Ronaldo's ex-coaches went on to manage Man Utd, Bayern, Chelsea, Real Madrid etc. All this shows is Messi's ex-managers (other than Pep) are not sought after, thus proving my point that Messi's managers are of a lower calibre than Ronaldo's, both before and after managing Ronaldo. None of Messi's previous managers have won anything since being Messi's coach despite managing in weaker leagues yet the likes of Ancelotti and Mourinho have won league titles for elite clubs after managing Ronaldo. Messi's ex-coaches wouldn't even get hired by these clubs

 

[Daysleeper]

Messi vs Ronaldo is very similar to Federer vs Djokovic in my eyes, even more so when you look at the personalities of Ronaldo and Djokovic. Both less talented as the other two, but their drive and determination is second to none in their respective sports. Djokovic may end with more career slams than Federer, as Ronaldo may have more goals than Messi - but I think people will continue to see Federer as the GOAT despite this.

I struggle to think how anyone can argue against Messi being the GOAT if he ends up winning a 7th Ballon d’Or. Unprecedented, and I argue that it won’t be matched for a number and number of decades.

In regards to Federer he is certainly more popular, but what Djokovic is doing on this current trajectory is so undeniable that Federer will be considered third all time when everything is said and done. If Djokovic finishes with 23 slams I think even his biggest naysayers will admit he's the GOAT. It is pretty much inevitable at this point.

 

[Swoobs]

See my reply above.
As for Moyes, I stopped talking you seriously right there. Not only did Moyes managed to take the PL champions and finish 7th with them. Should I also remind you how his Real Sociedad stint went? Setien might be bad, but he was no Moyes.

That is ok, I have never took you seriously when you equated Mourinho with Valverde, Setien and Tito.
Actually I doubt even most of the CR7 fanboys took you seriously after that.

Fact of the matter is, after so much talking from you, you have failed to name even 1 manager who is equal or better than Mourinho, outside Pep, who has coached Messi. You have been avoiding this question because you know you have no answers.

 

[Swoobs]

Christ, CR fanboys disputing the fact Ronaldo had better managers than Messi. seriously, even for underage CR SofaScore brigade, it's simply too much.

To be fair, it is only 1 of the CR fanboys. The rest aren’t that deluded

 

[Daysleeper]

Oh I know football is an 11 vs 11 sport, but every team has it's undisputed leader. For us in 1999 it was Roy Keane. He was de facto the 2nd man in charge after Sir Alex. For Real it was Ronaldo/Ramos. For Barca it was Messi/Pique.
Leadership filters from the top down. If in moments of crises your leader shrinks, the whole team suffers. And let's be honest here out of those 2 pairs if you had to pick a combo based on leadership alone which one would you take. We both we know the answer.


There is a difference between playing like garbage and getting dumped out by inferior teams and being in pole position and then throwing it away. You're making it sound like Barca have a back 4 hand picked from League One. It's not about players, it's about mentality.

AC Milan got hammered by Deportivo 4-0 a couple of years back, despite winning the first leg 4-1. The core of their defense that day was made up from Nesta, Maldini, Cafu and Gattuso as a shield in front of them. We also got the 4-4 vs Everton the match that pretty much sealed the title race that season despite us being in control for the most of the match. I also clearly remember that Milan imploded 2 times within a month. The first time was when they were almost eliminated by PSV at the death despite winning comfortably the first leg. And the second time was in that 3-3 CL final vs Scousers all of us would like to forget.

It's in moments like these when teams decide to "relax", when they think that it's in the bag, when they become too arrogant to take the opposition seriously that you need a nutter like Roy Keane to hammer home that you need to give 100% every second until the match is over. Ronaldo has the same drive Keane does minus being a complete nutter.

Remember at the Euro 2016 he was shouting instructions from the touchline along with his coach? That's what a leader looks like. He picks you up when you're down, he encourages you when shit gets tough, he demands perfection with every pass and he doesn't let you become complacent. Messi for all his talent and determination simply doesn't have this and that's why his team for all the talent they have can never come close to Real's consistency.


On paper you are right, but how many of those coaches you listed have accomplished anything since they left Real?

Benitez- manager at Newcastle
Ancelloti- sacked at Bayern for underperforming, managed Everton to an "impressive" midtable finish
Mourinho- do I even have to explain this one? Left Chelsea in the relegation zone, left us and Spurs in a complete mess while stinking up the place.
The fact is all of them were already on a downward spiral. Real simply exposed this since the expectations are through the roof over there. These managers are the equivalent of a Torres or Sanchez. Their impressive in their prime, but once they moved to other clubs they flopped hard.

But on reputation alone, yeah you're right. You know, Kevin Keagan won a couple of PL back in the day. Does that mean that he's still the same manager he was 30 years ago?


See my reply above.
As for Moyes, I stopped talking you seriously right there. Not only did Moyes managed to take the PL champions and finish 7th with them. Should I also remind you how his Real Sociedad stint went? Setien might be bad, but he was no Moyes.

First off in no way shape or form is Setien a better manager than Moyes. Not even close.

Second, Ronaldo being a cheerleader is the most overblown narrative in Football for the past 10 years.

Ramos is a leader, Puyol is a leader. Ronaldo was the one being irked everytime Bale scored. Messi, like Ronaldo, sulks a bit when the chips are down. We've seen plenty of games where Ronaldo's teams get battered and he throws a hissy fit on the pitch.

Here are some things about Messi as a leader/captain:

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...aul-messi-surprised-me-he-enjoys-a-song-cards

https://www.givemesport.com/1544290...-and-argentina-star-proved-hes-a-great-leader

https://www.sportbible.com/football...-messis-leadership-skills-vs-granada-20210205

https://www.sporf.com/messi-stops-de-paul-from-mocking-brazil-following-copa-america-win/


Yet, I don't really buy that either him or Ronaldo are great leaders. I've rarely seen Ronaldo rally the troops at Madrid or Juventus. He and Messi tend to just play well to "lead" the team but neither are all that vocal with their teammates.

 

[Pickle85]

After managing Barcelona Rijkaard managed in Turkey and for Saudi Arabia, Martino managed in the MLS and the Mexico national team, Sampaoli has managed in Brazil and for Marseille while Luis Enrique manages Spain.

Meanwhile, Ronaldo's ex-coaches went on to manage Man Utd, Bayern, Chelsea, Real Madrid etc. All this shows is Messi's ex-managers (other than Pep) are not sought after, thus proving my point that Messi's managers are of a lower calibre than Ronaldo's, both before and after managing Ronaldo. None of Messi's previous managers have won anything since being Messi's coach despite managing in weaker leagues yet the likes of Ancelotti and Mourinho have won league titles for elite clubs after managing Ronaldo. Messi's ex-coaches wouldn't even get hired by these clubs

But the fact that they managed in weaker leagues doesn't mean they managed the strongest teams in those leagues, does it?! I mean...demonstrably not, as they didn't win them. So I'm not sure what them failing to win the league in weaker leagues means. Aside from them not managing the strongest team? Also...who cares?! So Ronaldo was managed by better managers. Agreed. Messi has had a club basically built around him and has never ventured outside of that safe bubble to challenge himself.

I'm not trying to argue that any ex Barca manager after Guardiola is a better manager than ancelotti or Mourinho but what I am arguing is that using 'Ronaldo was managed by better managers' is a dumb argument. You and others decry the 'Messi has never done it outside of a club and infrastructure built for him' argument but simultaneously use an argument as weak as 'well Ronaldo has been managed by better managers' as proof of your point. It's so stupid.

Just to be clear, as I say every time I venture into this cesspool of a thread (and vow not to get pulled in) I honestly have no preference between them, beyond liking Ronaldo for being ex united. Messi is better to watch for me but for my money, they're on a par.

 

[Bebestation]

After managing Barcelona Rijkaard managed in Turkey and for Saudi Arabia, Martino managed in the MLS and the Mexico national team, Sampaoli has managed in Brazil and for Marseille while Luis Enrique manages Spain.

Meanwhile, Ronaldo's ex-coaches went on to manage Man Utd, Bayern, Chelsea, Real Madrid etc. All this shows is Messi's ex-managers (other than Pep) are not sought after, thus proving my point that Messi's managers are of a lower calibre than Ronaldo's, both before and after managing Ronaldo. None of Messi's previous managers have won anything since being Messi's coach despite managing in weaker leagues yet the likes of Ancelotti and Mourinho have won league titles for elite clubs after managing Ronaldo. Messi's ex-coaches wouldn't even get hired by these clubs

It also shows you how easy it is to manage and win the league in La Liga aswell; a league that only consists of 2 and a half big teams a season. It hardly requires a great manager. It's why we wanted to see him tested in different leagues and different environments in the first place.

 

[Tom Cato]

Leo Messi is much better than Cristiano Ronaldo

 

[Bebestation]

Leo Messi is much better than Cristiano Ronaldo

Agreed. Just C Ronaldo's achievements are more wow to me.

 

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

Leo Messi is much better than Cristiano Ronaldo

At least 2 tier over cristiano.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

But the fact that they managed in weaker leagues doesn't mean they managed the strongest teams in those leagues, does it?! I mean...demonstrably not, as they didn't win them. So I'm not sure what them failing to win the league in weaker leagues means. Aside from them not managing the strongest team? Also...who cares?! So Ronaldo was managed by better managers. Agreed. Messi has had a club basically built around him and has never ventured outside of that safe bubble to challenge himself.

I'm not trying to argue that any ex Barca manager after Guardiola is a better manager than ancelotti or Mourinho but what I am arguing is that using 'Ronaldo was managed by better managers' is a dumb argument. You and others decry the 'Messi has never done it outside of a club and infrastructure built for him' argument but simultaneously use an argument as weak as 'well Ronaldo has been managed by better managers' as proof of your point. It's so stupid.

Just to be clear, as I say every time I venture into this cesspool of a thread (and vow not to get pulled in) I honestly have no preference between them, beyond liking Ronaldo for being ex united. Messi is better to watch for me but for my money, they're on a par.

You're allowed to think it's a weak argument, personally I don't think it is as you only have to look at what the likes of Simeone, Conte and Klopp have done to see the affect a manager can have on the club's fortunes. There is no doubt Ronaldo's achievements have benefitted from being coached by a plethora of top tier managers. I think Barcelona have done a terrible job at recruiting managers and speculate that they, and in turn Messi, would have been more successful if they hadn't had years of mediocre managers overseeing the team. You call it weak, I call it obvious.

Bizarrely, you've put words in my mouth and for some reason stated that I decry people arguing that Messi has never done it outside of his 'safe bubble'. We were discussing managers, why you felt the need to invent an opinion about a separate subject and project it on me is an odd way to have a conversation but it seems you have a complex relationship with this thread judging by your post. It's not that deep my friend

 

[Gehrman]

First off in no way shape or form is Setien a better manager than Moyes. Not even close.

Second, Ronaldo being a cheerleader is the most overblown narrative in Football for the past 10 years.

Ramos is a leader, Puyol is a leader. Ronaldo was the one being irked everytime Bale scored. Messi, like Ronaldo, sulks a bit when the chips are down. We've seen plenty of games where Ronaldo's teams get battered and he throws a hissy fit on the pitch.

Here are some things about Messi as a leader/captain:

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...aul-messi-surprised-me-he-enjoys-a-song-cards

https://www.givemesport.com/1544290...-and-argentina-star-proved-hes-a-great-leader

https://www.sportbible.com/football...-messis-leadership-skills-vs-granada-20210205

https://www.sporf.com/messi-stops-de-paul-from-mocking-brazil-following-copa-america-win/


Yet, I don't really buy that either him or Ronaldo are great leaders. I've rarely seen Ronaldo rally the troops at Madrid or Juventus. He and Messi tend to just play well to "lead" the team but neither are all that vocal with their teammates.

Messi is a leader by almost most often being the best player on the pitch. But he's naturally introverted. Ronaldo leads by example on the pitch as well but he's incredibly self-centered and petulant and is fairly selfish on the pitch as well. Him taking up coaching on the sidelines in the Euro final for me seemed more than anything than him again being desperate for attention and to be in the spotlight once he couldn't play anymore. Compared to a lot of natural leaders that come to mind like Charlton, Cantona, Cryuff, Beckenbaur and Maradonna neither have the same natural charisma. They do ever however have to shoulder more pressure than any other footballers I've ever seen. I can remember Scholes and Ferdinand talking about the pressure of playing for Man Utd and how that pressure was nothing compared to Messi and Ronaldo who basically have to score each game in order for it to be considered an acceptable performance. And they have done it so long now.

 

[shamans]

Maybe now they can make the world cup an annual tournament until Messi wins it?

 

[Morty_]

Messi is a leader by almost most often being the best player on the pitch. But he's naturally introverted. Ronaldo leads by example on the pitch as well but he's incredibly self-centered and petulant and is fairly selfish on the pitch as well. Him taking up coaching on the sidelines in the Euro final for me seemed more than anything than him again being desperate for attention and to be in the spotlight once he couldn't play anymore. Compared to a lot of natural leaders that come to mind like Charlton, Cantona, Cryuff, Beckenbaur and Maradonna neither have the same natural charisma. They do ever however have to shoulder more pressure than any other footballers I've ever seen. I can remember Scholes and Ferdinand talking about the pressure of playing for Man Utd and how that pressure was nothing compared to Messi and Ronaldo who basically have to score each game in order for it to be considered an acceptable performance. And they have done it so long now.

I wish people would cut him a break once in a while, not everything he does is for attention, you could see how much the Euros meant for him, and he always say this is the best trophy in his career.

 

[Daysleeper]

Messi is a leader by almost most often being the best player on the pitch. But he's naturally introverted. Ronaldo leads by example on the pitch as well but he's incredibly self-centered and petulant and is fairly selfish on the pitch as well. Him taking up coaching on the sidelines in the Euro final for me seemed more than anything than him again being desperate for attention and to be in the spotlight once he couldn't play anymore. Compared to a lot of natural leaders that come to mind like Charlton, Cantona, Cryuff, Beckenbaur and Maradonna neither have the same natural charisma. They do ever however have to shoulder more pressure than any other footballers I've ever seen. I can remember Scholes and Ferdinand talking about the pressure of playing for Man Utd and how that pressure was nothing compared to Messi and Ronaldo who basically have to score each game in order for it to be considered an acceptable performance. And they have done it so long now.

great post

 

[Daysleeper]

Maybe now they can make the world cup an annual tournament until Messi wins it?

okay I laughed

 

[Pickle85]

You're allowed to think it's a weak argument, personally I don't think it is as you only have to look at what the likes of Simeone, Conte and Klopp have done to see the affect a manager can have on the club's fortunes. There is no doubt Ronaldo's achievements have benefitted from being coached by a plethora of top tier managers. I think Barcelona have done a terrible job at recruiting managers and speculate that they, and in turn Messi, would have been more successful if they hadn't had years of mediocre managers overseeing the team. You call it weak, I call it obvious.

Bizarrely, you've put words in my mouth and for some reason stated that I decry people arguing that Messi has never done it outside of his 'safe bubble'. We were discussing managers, why you felt the need to invent an opinion about a separate subject and project it on me is an odd way to have a conversation but it seems you have a complex relationship with this thread judging by your post. It's not that deep my friend

I have a complex relationship with this thread?! I think it's a ridiculous place full of adults fawning over individual football players and comparing them like top trumps. Also, you have the 15th most posts in this thread. Over 200. Good going...keep fighting the good fight!

 

[MalcolmTucker]

I have a complex relationship with this thread?! I think it's a ridiculous place full of adults fawning over individual football players and comparing them like top trumps. Also, you have the 15th most posts in this thread. Over 200. Good going...keep fighting the good fight!

I enjoy posting in this thread and do so - they are the two best players of this generation and have been rivals for over a decade, it is natural discuss on a football forum, just as you see it discussed by players, managers and pundits all over the world. You however seem to be upset at yourself for posting in this thread and invented an argument and acted as if I said it, which I find rather odd. If you don't like participating in this thread, then don't, no use beating yourself up about it

 

[Zehner]

Is it a bit weird to discuss two players on a forum in the internet with strangers? Yeah, probably. But I also think people who spend their time posting in a football forum to discuss their favorite club with strangers are also a bit weird and in no position to judge Just let people debate what they like. If some are more interested in players than clubs, so be it. Everybody has their own way of following football. I'm primarily interested in the sport not all the noise and tribalism surrounding it and Messi for my liking is the individual who plays this sport the best so naturally threads about him are very interesting to me. Don't get why that should be any weirder than somebody discussing United matters in here.

 

[Pickle85]

I enjoy posting in this thread and do so - they are the two best players of this generation and have been rivals for over a decade, it is natural discuss on a football forum, just as you see it discussed by players, managers and pundits all over the world. You however seem to be upset at yourself for posting in this thread and invented an argument and acted as if I said it, which I find rather odd. If you don't like participating in this thread, then don't, no use beating yourself up about it

You sure about that? These were just on the first few pages...

I think you overrate the PL, when Messi and Ronaldo were both in La Liga it was the strongest league in the world. You only have to see the points totals Liverpool and Man City have got since becoming top teams to see that and neither have players that are of Messi's calibre.



Because Messi was the best player on the pitch over the two legs - he scored two goals and created about 6 goalscoring chances. You picked a terrible example.



Messi created space by taking it past 2 players with 4 touches within a second. There's 7+ players ahead of Messi when he receives the ball and he takes it past half of them by dribbling.
Plenty of teams allow that space, the premier league isn't as unique as you think it is. If Messi can still score 2 goals and create various chances vs. Liverpool, a team that suffocates the space more than anyone else in the PL (or club football, probably), imagine what he'd do against Huddersfield or Bournemouth?



Bit rich to say this when your whole argument is based on the assumption that Messi wouldn't be as good away from Barcelona or in a different league. We can only go on what they actually have shown in their careers. Also Messi has played under different systems and managers - none of whom except Pep have gone on to have success after managing Barcelona. Whereas Ronaldo has been coached by all-time greats and top managers like SAF, Ancelotti, Mourinho, Zidane, Allegri.

Yeah, if Messi went to Juventus and got outscored by 3 players (including a player who is 36) last season and was 12th top scorer so far this season it would be evidence that he can only do it for Barca/in La Liga yet this is actually used as proof that Ronaldo can do it in 3 leagues

Are you drunk? Your posts read like maudlin gibberish.

Was SAF a coward for not proving himself outside of Britain? Pele only played for Santos (bar a retirement season in the MLS). Giggs, Totti, Gerrard?

These people who love Ronaldo have to resort this sort of reasoning because when you watch them on the pitch it's clear who is the better player. This narrative that Ronaldo went to challenge himself is bullshit, he went to a team that had won 7 serie As in a row. How about the narrative that he ran away to a weaker league, to a more dominant team and away from his rival Messi? Neither can be proven to be true or actually matter, because either way Messi is the better player and always has been.

If Messi was outscored by the likes of Quagliarella, Piatek, Immobile and Lukaku it would be proof that Messi could only do it at Barca, yet you demented Ronaldo sycophants use it to say Ronaldo is better. It's insane.

If Messi was smart he'd move to an easier league like Serie A so he could keep up his scoring stats with other geriatrics like Zlatan, Ronaldo and Quagliarela.

 

[Pickle85]

Is it a bit weird to discuss two players on a forum in the internet with strangers? Yeah, probably. But I also think people who spend their time posting in a football forum to discuss their favorite club with strangers are also a bit weird and in no position to judge Just let people debate what they like. If some are more interested in players than clubs, so be it. Everybody has their own way of following football. I'm primarily interested in the sport not all the noise and tribalism surrounding it and Messi for my liking is the individual who plays this sport the best so naturally threads about him are very interesting to me. Don't get why that should be any weirder than somebody discussing United matters in here.

Yep, this is very reasonable, fair enough. I'll bow out!

 

[MalcolmTucker]

You sure about that? These were just on the first few pages...

Bless you for you searching through my posts from 2 years ago, pretty unusual behaviour from someone who likes to think they're above participating in this thread - how do you know my opinion has changed in the time that has elapsed since then? My point was you were foisting an opinion into the conversation which was separate from the subject being discussed. The discussion was about Messi and Ronaldo's managers, not Messi only playing for Barcelona.

 

[Pickle85]

Bless you for you searching through my posts from 2 years ago, pretty unusual behaviour from someone who likes to think they're above participating in this thread - how do you know my opinion has changed in the time that has elapsed since then? My point was you were foisting an opinion into the conversation which was separate from the subject being discussed. The discussion was about Messi and Ronaldo's managers, not Messi only playing for Barcelona.

You literally said that I was inventing an argument and acting as if you said it. Which I proved is untrue. I can quote where you said that too, in case you don't recall that either?! As for the discussion being about Ronaldo's and Messi's managers MY point (which I guess you somehow missed?) was that making an argument that flimsy and illogical was a bit rich when you decry the Messi comfort zone argument. Or do you now agree that that has merit?

 

[The holy trinity 68]

I have a complex relationship with this thread?! I think it's a ridiculous place full of adults fawning over individual football players and comparing them like top trumps. Also, you have the 15th most posts in this thread. Over 200. Good going...keep fighting the good fight!

How do you see how many posts someone has made in a thread? I didn't even know that was a thing.

 

[Pickle85]

How do you see how many posts someone has made in a thread? I didn't even know that was a thing.

Top of the thread next to the 'watch'/'unwatch' button

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Top of the thread next to the 'watch'/'unwatch' button

Thanks. I am 13th on the list of most posts in this thread. Embarrassing

 

[Pickle85]

Thanks. I am 13th on the list of most posts in this thread. Embarrassing

Nah, it's one of the foremost debates as far as 'versus' conversations go and I've seen for myself just posting today how easy it is to rack them up! I shouldn't have brought up post count...not really relevant and a bit of a cheap shot. But it was in response to being told that I have a complex relationship with this thread so I wanted to point out to that poster the irony there (is it irony?! Never been good at figuring that out!)

 

[nickm]

In my point of view (which wont be agreed upon) Messi has improved after winning the Copa. Glad he has done something with the national team now. It's a shame that he is sticking to playing in the La Liga when it's looking at its poorest and staying loyal to Barcelona when this could have been finished as a thread in my eyes if he was able to pull off his numbers and achievements for someone else in a different environment and in a different league.

Messi doesn't need to prove anything to anyone. I don't think anyone will be debating Messi v Ronaldo in 10 years. Nobody really remembers how many titles Ronaldinho won, but they do remember the magic.

 

[Maluco]

I think Lionel Messi is a better footballer than Ronaldo, even though I admire Ronaldo more for different reasons and for his connection to United and the memories he gave us. I think his drive and determination to compete with Messi is incredible.

But those using the Copa America as some sort of equalizer is baffling. It’s been completed devalued in recent years and it isn’t a patch on winning a Euros with Portugal. That is a far bigger and better achievement.

Sometimes people on both sides of the argument in this thread completely lose their heads and argue any point to make sure it equates with their opinion.

The Copa has been played 4 times in the last 6 years people, and Argentina are always the second biggest footballing nation in the tournament. Their terrible record is their own making. It doesn’t even come close to a Portugal Euros win. Try and be objetive no matter what your own opinion is and this thread would be far easier to have discussion in.

 

[Daysleeper]

I think Lionel Messi is a better footballer than Ronaldo, even though I admire Ronaldo more for different reasons and for his connection to United and the memories he gave us. I think his drive and determination to compete with Messi is incredible.

But those using the Copa America as some sort of equalizer is baffling. It’s been completed devalued in recent years and it isn’t a patch on winning a Euros with Portugal. That is a far bigger and better achievement.

Sometimes people on both sides of the argument in this thread completely lose their heads and argue any point to make sure it equates with their opinion.

The Copa has been played 4 times in the last 6 years people, and Argentina are always the second biggest footballing nation in the tournament. Their terrible record is their own making. It doesn’t even come close to a Portugal Euros win. Try and be objetive no matter what your own opinion is and this thread would be far easier to have discussion in.

yes but when you see how Portugal won their euros as the jammiest NT winner of the last 25 years while no other NT has made 4 finals in a row like Argentina did and I think Portugal winning the euro is very over valued if anything.

 

[Maluco]

yes but when you see how Portugal won their euros as the jammiest NT winner of the last 25 years while no other NT has made 4 finals in a row like Argentina did and I think Portugal winning the euro is very over valued if anything.

In terms of player base and tradition, Germany, Spain, France, England, Holland, Italy all rate above Portugal. That’s before you get into nations like Belgium and Croatia having great footballers too. You can only win the Euros every 4 years. It doesn’t really matter how jammie it is. It’s a massive achievement for Portugal to win one.

If you play in the Copa as many times as Argentina have with Messi in the side, you are literally one of the top two teams in the tournament every time, you should be winning it at least once. There is almost an expectation there, whereas there was absolutely none on Portugal to win something in their position.

Euros win for Portugal dwarfs a Copa win for Argentina in the current climate. In my opinion, it’s nonsensical to argue otherwise.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

In terms of player base and tradition, Germany, Spain, France, England, Holland, Italy all rate above Portugal. That’s before you get into nations like Belgium and Croatia having great footballers too. You can only win the Euros every 4 years. It doesn’t really matter how jammie it is. It’s a massive achievement for Portugal to win one.

If you play in the Copa as many times as Argentina have with Messi in the side, you are literally one of the top two teams in the tournament every time, you should be winning it at least once. There is almost an expectation there, whereas there was absolutely none on Portugal to win something in their position.

Euros win for Portugal dwarfs a Copa win for Argentina in the current climate. In my opinion, it’s nonsensical to argue otherwise.

Naming them is irrelevant when they only had to play 1 of them on the way to winning the competition.

Portugal had the easiest run to a Euro final that we have ever seen.

 

[Maluco]

Naming them is irrelevant when they only had to play 1 of them on the way to winning the competition.

Portugal had the easiest run to a Euro final that we have ever seen.

Thats because they beat the teams that put them out! They are all in the qualifying and all in the tournament. It doesn’t matter who you play, whether it’s France, or the team that beat France etc…

Far more world class players, less tournaments to do it at, and traditionally teams that have won far more than your own nation have (which is absolutely nothing)

It’s a fantastic achievement no matter what their pathway was.

 

[Bole Top]

it's beyond idiotic to use Holland (which weren't even there), Italy, Germany and others in this particular context when they weren't the ones Portugal played against. Portugal were stronger than any team they faced on their way to the final, both in reality and on paper. they were also ranked higher than any of them. there was nothing miraculus in them reaching the final with that draw and in the end they faced the same number of "elite" teams as Argentina.

 

[mshnsh]

In terms of player base and tradition, Germany, Spain, France, England, Holland, Italy all rate above Portugal. That’s before you get into nations like Belgium and Croatia having great footballers too. You can only win the Euros every 4 years. It doesn’t really matter how jammie it is. It’s a massive achievement for Portugal to win one.

If you play in the Copa as many times as Argentina have with Messi in the side, you are literally one of the top two teams in the tournament every time, you should be winning it at least once. There is almost an expectation there, whereas there was absolutely none on Portugal to win something in their position.

Euros win for Portugal dwarfs a Copa win for Argentina in the current climate. In my opinion, it’s nonsensical to argue otherwise.

That is all well and good until you consider some facts:

1) When Portugal won the Euros, they played vs Iceland, Hungary, Austria, Wales, Poland. Croatia was the only decent side they played against until they met France in the final.

And the win vs Croatia was as lucky as they come. Straight after Croatia hit the post, Portugal score from a goalkeeper error.

2) The Only game they won in 90 minutes was vs Wales in the entire tournament. Had the rules not been changed, they would have not even have made it out of the group stages.

3 With Messi Argentina made to 5 finals including in the world Cup.

In 3 of the 5 finals ie 2014 WC/2015/2016 they were agonisingly close and with a bit of luck they would have won any one or more of them.

 

[Daysleeper]

In terms of player base and tradition, Germany, Spain, France, England, Holland, Italy all rate above Portugal. That’s before you get into nations like Belgium and Croatia having great footballers too. You can only win the Euros every 4 years. It doesn’t really matter how jammie it is. It’s a massive achievement for Portugal to win one.

If you play in the Copa as many times as Argentina have with Messi in the side, you are literally one of the top two teams in the tournament every time, you should be winning it at least once. There is almost an expectation there, whereas there was absolutely none on Portugal to win something in their position.

Euros win for Portugal dwarfs a Copa win for Argentina in the current climate. In my opinion, it’s nonsensical to argue otherwise.

except Portugal avoided all of thosr teams except for France. In which Ronaldo didn’t play and Eder won it for them. Copa isn’t as big as euro but still enough to give Messi ballon d’or so obviously it means far more than you give it credit for