Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[genardk]

I think the fact that Ronaldo has done it in the top leagues of the world pretty much closes the argument. There's always those who will come up with could have would have etc. but those remain unproven hypothesis. Not for a moment saying that Messi did not have what it takes to tear it apart in new leagues if he did move earlier in his career. But we will never have the data now to prove it.

Ronaldo proved that he could score goals as mostly a poacher/striker when provided great service at the expense of other players also taking all penalties/free-kicks etc. Messi is not a striker, he is one of the greatest playmakers, dribblers of all time that also has crazy amount of goals. That's why for many, they are not comparable even in this United forum or among some of Ronaldo's teammates. Ronaldo is more comparable to Lewa than Messi.

Ronaldo fans tend to (wrongly) see them as equivalent in terms of what they are capable of doing on the pitch (which is delusional tbh as Ronaldo lacks creativity, playmaking & dribbling skills at the highest level) and then say that Ronaldo has an edge because he proved it in different leagues, sorry but that does not make any sense. Messi is the complete package in terms of what he does on the pitch, Ronaldo is very limited compared to Messi in that regard. Even in the goal scoring area which is supposed to be his biggest strength, he does not have an edge over Messi. Just because Messi is scoring as many goals as other top strikers, people for some reason assume that Messi is also a striker camping around the penalty box waiting for the next chance. Messi and Ronaldo are very different players. Messi belongs to the Cruyff, Maradona, Platini camp with unbelievable goal scoring abilities, Ronaldo does not.

Also, a poacher's adaptation to a new league is not the same as a playmaker's adaptation to a new league (especially considering the way Pochettino positions Messi at PSG). Wherever Ronaldo goes, the whole team is designed to feed him.

 

[Gehrman]

I am not a messi fan. For me his biggest achievement is to send barca indirectly to Europa because he bankrupted them .

Unlike dembele, coutinho and griezzman. And they could have sold him when he wanted out.

 

[Gehrman]

I think the fact that Ronaldo has done it in the top leagues of the world pretty much closes the argument. There's always those who will come up with could have would have etc. but those remain unproven hypothesis. Not for a moment saying that Messi did not have what it takes to tear it apart in new leagues if he did move earlier in his career. But we will never have the data now to prove it.

For a lot of people its who cares.

 

[Gehrman]

If scoring goals on the PL is what sets you apart i nominate Harry Kane as the worlds best who's been scoring loads of goals for spurs.

 

[RedBanker]

For a lot of people its who cares.

Yes exactly. Lot of people know CR is the best.

 

[Gehrman]

Yes exactly. Lot of people know CR is the best.

Except the vast majority of players, pundits and managers who go with Messi.

 

[Gehrman]

Ronaldo proved that he could score goals as mostly a poacher/striker when provided great service at the expense of other players also taking all penalties/free-kicks etc. Messi is not a striker, he is one of the greatest playmakers, dribblers of all time that also has crazy amount of goals. That's why for many, they are not comparable even in this United forum or among some of Ronaldo's teammates. Ronaldo is more comparable to Lewa than Messi.

Ronaldo fans tend to (wrongly) see them as equivalent in terms of what they are capable of doing on the pitch (which is delusional tbh as Ronaldo lacks creativity, playmaking & dribbling skills at the highest level) and then say that Ronaldo has an edge because he proved it in different leagues, sorry but that does not make any sense. Messi is the complete package in terms of what he does on the pitch, Ronaldo is very limited compared to Messi in that regard. Even in the goal scoring area which is supposed to be his biggest strength, he does not have an edge over Messi. Just because Messi is scoring as many goals as other top strikers, people for some reason assume that Messi is also a striker camping around the penalty box waiting for the next chance. Messi and Ronaldo are very different players. Messi belongs to the Cruyff, Maradona, Platini camp with unbelievable goal scoring abilities, Ronaldo does not.

Also, a poacher's adaptation to a new league is not the same as a playmaker's adaptation to a new league (especially considering the way Pochettino positions Messi at PSG). Wherever Ronaldo goes, the whole team is designed to feed him.

Ronaldo has not been and out and out poacher his entire career but apart from that I mostly agree. Not sure i agree with Messi's adaption at PSG. But yeah Messi has had an incredible scoring record whilst not being a striker, but a forward who drops deep and is a playmaker and far more involved in the overall play.

 

[Bebestation]

I'd like to ask a question - I wouldn't mind if its voted either;

Has anyone ever changed their mind about Messi Vs Ronaldo?

Has anyone gone from Messi to Ronaldo or Ronaldo to Messi?

It just seems a bit impossible or improbable doesn't it? It's always seemed like a choice that is made depending on what you enjoy or value in the sport more and that is hardly going to change by watching more of the sport.

 

[Bole Top]

I'd like to ask a question - I wouldn't mind if its voted either;

Has anyone ever changed their mind about Messi Vs Ronaldo?

Has anyone gone from Messi to Ronaldo or Ronaldo to Messi?

but the answer is obvious because of the age difference. majority of us here rate Messi as a better player yet all of us were in "Ronaldo camp" in 2006-08 period. Kaka was also better than Messi in those years.

better question would be - how often it wasn't that obvious who was the better player of the two when they were both on the pitch at the same time?

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

I think the fact that Ronaldo has done it in the top leagues of the world pretty much closes the argument. There's always those who will come up with could have would have etc. but those remain unproven hypothesis. Not for a moment saying that Messi did not have what it takes to tear it apart in new leagues if he did move earlier in his career. But we will never have the data now to prove it.

But it’s a nonsense way to decide who is the best player, because then you have to have a player who goes on a road trip around all the leagues of the world as the criteria when the vast majority of the best players ever didn’t do that. You’re penalising players for loyalty, when loyalty to a club is one of the cool features about football.

Pele spent all his good years at Santos, Eusebio spent all his good years at Benfica, Di Stefano spent all his good European years at Real Madrid, Beckenbauer spent all his good years at Bayern Munich, so did Müller. Maradona spent all his peak in Italy, some years in Spain but didn’t see exactly take the league by storm. Cruyff did it in two leagues alright, but just two. Bobby Charlton his whole career at United.

So you’d say that if Ronaldo spent his whole career at United and never went to Real Madrid, but scored the same numbers of goals and won the same number of Champions Leagues for United as he won for Real Madrid, that he wouldn’t be the best ever because he didn’t test himself in Spain? That’s the sort of logic you’re applying to it.

 

[RedBanker]

But it’s a nonsense way to decide who is the best player, because then you have to have a player who goes on a road trip around all the leagues of the world as the criteria when the vast majority of the best players ever didn’t do that. You’re penalising players for loyalty, when loyalty to a club is one of the cool features about football.

Pele spent all his good years at Santos, Eusebio spent all his good years at Benfica, Di Stefano spent all his good European years at Real Madrid, Beckenbauer spent all his good years at Bayern Munich, so did Müller. Maradona spent all his peak in Italy, some years in Spain but didn’t see exactly take the league by storm. Cruyff did it in two leagues alright, but just two. Bobby Charlton his whole career at United.

So you’d say that if Ronaldo spent his whole career at United and never went to Real Madrid, but scored the same numbers of goals and won the same number of Champions Leagues for United as he won for Real Madrid, that he wouldn’t be the best ever because he didn’t test himself in Spain? That’s the sort of logic you’re applying to it.

What's nonsense is repeatedly talking about what ifs and would haves and could haves etc. As I said before. Both great players, both will go down in history as the best of the best. Both played with great teams around them. CR has done it for a greater number of teams in a greater number of leagues, and good leagues mind you and has taken up challenges which prove his supreme confidence in his own abilities. It's one thing to move from a comfort zone of United to try and do even better at Madrid. But it's another thing to actually do it at Madrid year after year. It's one thing to want to move on from the comfort zone of Madrid and it's another to actually do it and do it with panache. And it takes superhuman courage to try to come back to the best league in the world at 37 years age and it's another thing to actually have such courage. But then I guess for CR there is no such thing as a comfort zone.

 

[Bebestation]

but the answer is obvious because of the age difference. majority of us here rate Messi as a better player yet all of us were in "Ronaldo camp" in 2006-08 period. Kaka was also better than Messi in those years.

better question would be - how often it wasn't that obvious who was the better player of the two when they were both on the pitch at the same time?

Sure but Ronaldo wasn't viewed as a GOAT that early on was he? He just had won a single Balon D'or if I remember right.

He was regarded as a top player but people weren't exactly talking about him as a better player than Pele that early were they?

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

What's nonsense is repeatedly talking about what ifs and would haves and could haves etc. As I said before. Both great players, both will go down in history as the best of the best. Both played with great teams around them. CR has done it for a greater number of teams in a greater number of leagues, and good leagues mind you and has taken up challenges which prove his supreme confidence in his own abilities. It's one thing to move from a comfort zone of United to try and do even better at Madrid. But it's another thing to actually do it at Madrid year after year. It's one thing to want to move on from the comfort zone of Madrid and it's another to actually do it and do it with panache. And it takes superhuman courage to try to come back to the best league in the world at 37 years age and it's another thing to actually have such courage. But then I guess for CR there is no such thing as a comfort zone.

That didn’t answer anything I said. You’re punishing players for loyalty? Is Ibrahimovic better than Pele then?

 

[RedBanker]

That didn’t answer anything I said. You’re punishing players for loyalty? Is Ibrahimovic better than Pele then?

Eh? The comparison is between Messi and CR. Where did Pele, etc come from into the discussion?

 

[NasirTimothy]

Sure but Ronaldo wasn't viewed as a GOAT that early on was he? He just had won a single Balon D'or if I remember right.

He was regarded as a top player but people weren't exactly talking about him as a better player than Pele that early were they?

Which is why he’s not the GOAT.

 

[Bebestation]

Which is why he’s not the GOAT.

What do you mean?

 

[Nordmore]

I'd like to ask a question - I wouldn't mind if its voted either;

Has anyone ever changed their mind about Messi Vs Ronaldo?

Has anyone gone from Messi to Ronaldo or Ronaldo to Messi?

It just seems a bit impossible or improbable doesn't it? It's always seemed like a choice that is made depending on what you enjoy or value in the sport more and that is hardly going to change by watching more of the sport.

Well me.

I was never a fan of a certain player tbh, I only really enjoy watching some of them playing. So I'm not a Ronaldo fan nor a Messi fan.

Anyway, back then like many United fans I thought Ronaldo was the best player on the planet, well until I watched Messi. The more I watched him, the more it was for me. Especially when Ronaldo changed himself from an exciting winger who involved a lot in the play making to the great goal scorer he was. I don't know who is the better or greater player and tbh, I don't care. But Messi is definitely the most beautiful thing in my 30 years watching football, that I'm sure about. He's simply magic with the ball at his feet.

Maybe it's because of age, maybe I'm just weird the older I got the less I care about who's on the scoresheet or stats. Even winning and titles. Football is just much more than that to me.

Tbh back then I even considered to support Barca instead, because I really enjoyed watching Messi play. But I couldn't bring myself to. There's still nothing like watching United to me. Later, again, when I got older I finally understood why. It's not about a choice you made. Like love, it's just natural, you can't go against it even if you bloody want to. Same thing with Ronaldo and Messi I think. It's never about choices for me.

 

[Zehner]

What's nonsense is repeatedly talking about what ifs and would haves and could haves etc. As I said before. Both great players, both will go down in history as the best of the best. Both played with great teams around them. CR has done it for a greater number of teams in a greater number of leagues, and good leagues mind you and has taken up challenges which prove his supreme confidence in his own abilities. It's one thing to move from a comfort zone of United to try and do even better at Madrid. But it's another thing to actually do it at Madrid year after year. It's one thing to want to move on from the comfort zone of Madrid and it's another to actually do it and do it with panache. And it takes superhuman courage to try to come back to the best league in the world at 37 years age and it's another thing to actually have such courage. But then I guess for CR there is no such thing as a comfort zone.

You sound like one of these Instagram coaches. Only thing missing was that you tried to sell me your new book/online course/whatever named "Lion-Mindset" or something like that.

 

[Gehrman]

What's nonsense is repeatedly talking about what ifs and would haves and could haves etc. As I said before. Both great players, both will go down in history as the best of the best. Both played with great teams around them. CR has done it for a greater number of teams in a greater number of leagues, and good leagues mind you and has taken up challenges which prove his supreme confidence in his own abilities. It's one thing to move from a comfort zone of United to try and do even better at Madrid. But it's another thing to actually do it at Madrid year after year. It's one thing to want to move on from the comfort zone of Madrid and it's another to actually do it and do it with panache. And it takes superhuman courage to try to come back to the best league in the world at 37 years age and it's another thing to actually have such courage. But then I guess for CR there is no such thing as a comfort zone.

Ronaldo was already talking about leaving United after the winking incident. I'm not sure if loyalty to a club is comfort zones although I get what you mean. Why would prime Messi movefrom Barcelona in the first place? To post fergie united? City? Chelsea? Liverpool? Who could afford his fee and wages? It's kind of weird if Messi would want to move in the first place.

Madrid went full Galatico when they bought Ronaldo and they had one their most stacked squads ever built around Ronaldo, just like Messi became the centerpiece at Barcelona once he became the best in the world. I have full respect for Ronaldo's journeyman career, but his heart was never at United. He left Real because he wanted a pay raise after the 3 peat and Perez wouldn't do it while chasing Neymar. Juventus were willing to offer him the contract he wanted and the transfer fee. And yeah fair fecks to him to come back to United at 36.

 

[Gehrman]

Well me.

I was never a fan of a certain player tbh, I only really enjoy watching some of them playing. So I'm not a Ronaldo fan nor a Messi fan.

Anyway, back then like many United fans I thought Ronaldo was the best player on the planet, well until I watched Messi. The more I watched him, the more it was for me. Especially when Ronaldo changed himself from an exciting winger who involved a lot in the play making to the great goal scorer he was. I don't know who is the better or greater player and tbh, I don't care. But Messi is definitely the most beautiful thing in my 30 years watching football, that I'm sure about. He's simply magic with the ball at his feet.

Maybe it's because of age, maybe I'm just weird the older I got the less I care about who's on the scoresheet or stats. Even winning and titles. Football is just much more than that to me.

Tbh back then I even considered to support Barca instead, because I really enjoyed watching Messi play. But I couldn't bring myself to. There's still nothing like watching United to me. Later, again, when I got older I finally understood why. It's not about a choice you made. Like love, it's just natural, you can't go against it even if you bloody want to. Same thing with Ronaldo and Messi I think. It's never about choices for me.

Growing up I wasn't at all obsessed with stats. Giggs was my favourite united player because of his dribbling ability and pace and the beautiful way he had of running. If it was all about goals it would Andy Cole until Ruud came along.

 

[NasirTimothy]

What do you mean?

You can’t be the GOAT (in my view) if you don’t have GOAT level ability. And if you have GOAT level ability it is evident early. Maradona was being compared to Pele when he was still a teenager (as was evident in the great Asif Kapadia documentary). When Messi was about 22, Graeme Souness said on TV that he was the best player he’d ever seen. Etc.

 

[RedBanker]

Ronaldo was already talking about leaving United after the winking incident. I'm not sure if loyalty to a club is comfort zones although I get what you mean. Why would prime Messi movefrom Barcelona in the first place? To post fergie united? City? Chelsea? Liverpool? Who could afford his fee and wages? It's kind of weird if Messi would want to move in the first place.

Madrid went full Galatico when they bought Ronaldo and they had one their most stacked squads ever built around Ronaldo, just like Messi became the centerpiece at Barcelona once he became the best in the world. I have full respect for Ronaldo's journeyman career, but his heart was never at United. He left Real because he wanted a pay raise after the 3 peat and Perez wouldn't do it while chasing Neymar. Juventus were willing to offer him the contract he wanted and the transfer fee. And yeah fair fecks to him to come back to United at 36.

You are justifying Messi not moving to another club and staying where he was treated as royalty. At the same time you are belittling the moves CR made from Lisbon to United as a kid who spoke very little English, as a CL winner and SAFs darling at United to Madrid and so on and so forth. You are even going so far as calling him a journeyman. My lord. Do you even know what a journeyman footballer is?

 

[Gehrman]

You are justifying Messi not moving to another club and staying where he was treated as royalty. At the same time you are belittling the moves CR made from Lisbon to United as a kid who spoke very little English, as a CL winner and SAFs darling at United to Madrid and so on and so forth. You are even going so far as calling him a journeyman. My lord. Do you even know what a journeyman footballer is?

I didnt actually mean it as a negative. But yeah why on earth would prime Messi move from Barcelona when every move would be a step down?

 

[RedBanker]

I didnt actually mean it as a negative. But yeah why on earth would prime Messi move from Barcelona when every move would be a step down?

You are right. Not everyone has what it takes to move out of their comfort zone. And I guess you are a Barca fan. So I think it's pointless discussing this with you.

 

[Gehrman]

You are right. Not everyone has what it takes to move out of their comfort zone. And I guess you are a Barca fan. So I think it's pointless discussing this with you.

Im not actually. Im a man utd fan. But you're right its completely pointless discussing with you.

 

[cyberman]

I'd like to ask a question - I wouldn't mind if its voted either;

Has anyone ever changed their mind about Messi Vs Ronaldo?

Has anyone gone from Messi to Ronaldo or Ronaldo to Messi?

It just seems a bit impossible or improbable doesn't it? It's always seemed like a choice that is made depending on what you enjoy or value in the sport more and that is hardly going to change by watching more of the sport.

I have. There was a period of about 5 years when Ronaldo was setting record after record and Messi was strolling about in Europe with no movement and allowing his side to be overrun as if he were a 40 year old man. A lot of Messis arguments came down to well in 2011 he did this and that and it just started to ring hollow. Even during that period Messi became dogshit in El Classicos and Ronaldo started to dominate them so it came down to Messi performances against the likes of Levante and there was no comparison imo.
I still think Messi is the better player but Ronaldo is the player of this generation imo. Messi rested on his laurels a lot earlier than he should have

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I have. There was a period of about 5 years when Ronaldo was setting record after record and Messi was strolling about in Europe with no movement and allowing his side to be overrun as if he were a 40 year old man. A lot of Messis arguments came down to well in 2011 he did this and that and it just started to ring hollow. Even during that period Messi became dogshit in El Classicos and Ronaldo started to dominate them so it came down to Messi performances against the likes of Levante and there was no comparison imo.
I still think Messi is the better player but Ronaldo is the player of this generation imo. Messi rested on his laurels a lot earlier than he should have

What period was that? Also how can one man that plays on the right wing allow is side to be overrun. It's one thing that's funny about this debate. Ronaldo could not qualify for world cup and he will be blamed for allowing Portugal to lose. How does that even make sense

 

[Zehner]

I guess RedBanker is the type of guy who quits his well paid job as an investment banker to work as a cashier at McDonald's - leaving his comfort zone, new challenges. The Lion-Mindset.

 

[RedBanker]

I guess RedBanker is the type of guy who quits his well paid job as an investment banker to work as a cashier at McDonald's - leaving his comfort zone, new challenges. The Lion-Mindset.

Saying CR is better than Messi really gets under your skin doesn't it?

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I guess RedBanker is the type of guy who quits his well paid job as an investment banker to work as a cashier at McDonald's - leaving his comfort zone, new challenges. The Lion-Mindset.

That's really not a good analogy for what Ronaldo did

 

[RedBanker]

Im not actually. Im a man utd fan. But you're right its completely pointless discussing with you.

Well dog my cats!!

 

[RedBanker]

That's really not a good analogy for what Ronaldo did

There are certain people, for whom belittling CR is equal to supporting Messi. Don't bother.

 

[Bebestation]

You can’t be the GOAT (in my view) if you don’t have GOAT level ability. And if you have GOAT level ability it is evident early. Maradona was being compared to Pele when he was still a teenager (as was evident in the great Asif Kapadia documentary). When Messi was about 22, Graeme Souness said on TV that he was the best player he’d ever seen. Etc.

This is why I call Messi an Artist. Its the love for his technical artistic ability that people love, the thing that gets better the more relaxed he is, the more calm he is, the more playing with his most suited ingredients, against the same artistic competition; needing his best bits and pieces to get the best result out of his artistic drawings.

Ronaldo is a scientist, its more the mentality or brain of the player people love. The way he has almost created a scientific theory that is applicable to everywhere, every when, every scenario and every style like it's a scientific theory by Einstein or Darwin. Just like most Scientists or science - it isn't the most beautiful work.

Just as much as you say that people like you or Souness were able to call Messi the GOAT by the age of 22 -

The people opposite to that type of mindset was able to watch and test Ronaldo through a consistent career that is still going strong at the age of 36 in the hardest league in the world.

Just like a science - it was tested and experimented on, anywhere, any when, how, any settling time needed, the quality of opponent through a whole year rather than just once or twice in a year- with records at the most competitive natures like it was just a portion of scientific data..

Ronaldo is a science. Messi is an Art.

I'm glad you enjoy what you enjoy the most mate! Likewise I'm enjoying mine

 

[Zehner]

Saying CR is better than Messi really gets under your skin doesn't it?

No, hollow phrases without any substance do Mentality is the little brother of the positional error, you know?

 

[Adisa]

I guess RedBanker is the type of guy who quits his well paid job as an investment banker to work as a cashier at McDonald's - leaving his comfort zone, new challenges. The Lion-Mindset.

Poor analogy.

 

[cyberman]

What period was that? Also how can one man that plays on the right wing allow is side to be overrun. It's one thing that's funny about this debate. Ronaldo could not qualify for world cup and he will be blamed for allowing Portugal to lose. How does that even make sense

The 4 CLs in 5 years and the Euros. I have never seen anything like it, it was setting records as if it read from teams in the 50s.
Messi hasn’t played on the wing for many years now. He didn’t want to run as much so moved inside and that was that. It’s why Griezmann failed there, Messi already played in his position

 

[Wolf1992]

You are right. Not everyone has what it takes to move out of their comfort zone. And I guess you are a Barca fan. So I think it's pointless discussing this with you.

Moving from one club to another doesn't make you a better player.

Unless you think Zlatan is a better player than Beckenbauer,Pele,Eusebio, and Maldini.

 

[RedBanker]

No, hollow phrases without any substance do Mentality is the little brother of the positional error, you know?

None more hollow than your strawman analogy. This I know.

 

[RedBanker]

Moving from one club to another doesn't make you a better player.

Unless you think Zlatan is a better player than Beckenbauer,Pele,Eusebio, and Maldini.

Yawn.

 

[Zehner]

None more hollow than your strawman analogy. This I know.

Mate, you're the one who thinks one footballer is better than the other because of his decision making outside the pitch. Nothing you argued had any substance. You're the prototype of a fan who has no clue about the sport so he instead talks about intangibles that are easy to grasp without any further knowledge of the topic. Your posts sound like Solskjaer pressers about "wanting it more" etc.

If you want a logical argument, give me something to work with. All you come up with is in fact suerficial and substance free soft skill bollocks.