Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[genardk]

Vardy is a very bad comparison, he's actually more comparable to Ronaldo since he doesn't have Messi's ability to create a goal out of thin air. If one of the two is supposed to be better against big teams, it's Ronaldo. That's one of the reasons why Barcelona won far more La Liga title than Real Madrid, even with a weaker team, Messi was far more consistent against weaker teams while Ronaldo thrives in high pressure CL games.

Fun fact, Messi's goal ratio against top6 PL clubs (the picture is a month old or so) is twice as high as Ronaldo's :

Tbh, I find your post a bit self-contradictory. Messi is the ultimate big game player. He is the best performer ever in the history of the biggest rivalry in the world, El Classico. He has performed way better than Ronaldo in El Classico games when Ronaldo has played in Spain for 9 years. Your own post above shows he has twice the stats Ronaldo has against the big six in PL though he is not a striker (those G+A stats does not fully capture his contributions linked to his playmaking, dribbling skills, overall his creativity). His performances against Ronaldo's United in the CL final and against Ronaldo's Real in the CL semi finals were crazy good and he was the main difference-maker. In Spain, he scored most goals against Sevilla (37), then Atletico Madrid (32 goals), Valencia (29 goals), and Real is fourth (26 goals) so not against the worst teams as your post implies.

Ronaldo frequently disappeared in the biggest finals in his career including CL finals and had to be bailed out multiple times by Bale or Ramos. He did not even play more than 15-20 minutes in the biggest game of his international career in 2016 Euros against France (due to injury of course). Obviously, Ronaldo has many big game performances as well (especially in CL QFs & SFs), but so did many other top players. With the NT, he has only scored 7 goals (3 of them penalties) in 30 games with Portugal against WC winning nations (Germany, Brazil, France, Italy, Spain, England, Uruguay, Argentina) with a goal ratio of 0.23 per game.

So, maybe I'm missing something, can you explain why you think Ronaldo is a better performer against big teams?

 

[bakalhau]

Comparing Messi's goals/games against top 6 PL teams with Ronaldo's, and attempt to leverage him in the discussion with that, is about as - and I'm sorry here, but it's the truth - as dumb as comparing Ronaldo's La Liga goals/game to Messi's to leverage Ronnie in the same discussion.

Edit: thanks Morty_ below me! Bingo. Senseless comparison.

 

[Morty_]

Vardy is a very bad comparison, he's actually more comparable to Ronaldo since he doesn't have Messi's ability to create a goal out of thin air. If one of the two is supposed to be better against big teams, it's Ronaldo. That's one of the reasons why Barcelona won far more La Liga title than Real Madrid, even with a weaker team, Messi was far more consistent against weaker teams while Ronaldo thrives in high pressure CL games.

Fun fact, Messi's goal ratio against top6 PL clubs (the picture is a month old or so) is twice as high as Ronaldo's :

For one, this is a misleading stat, considering several of these matches were when Ronaldow was an actual winger, as opposed to Messi, who played many of these matches as an actual attacker.

No doubt Messi performed better against English top sides, but lets put some context to it.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Nothing you said contradicts what I said though. Ronaldo IMO did not display GOAT level ability at a young age. I don’t recall any commentator or pundit saying ‘that’s the best player I’ve ever seen’ when he was playing for United the first time around. I mean you’d struggle to find many saying it even now.

Being the best player in England is great but I don’t think there’s ever been a serious GOAT contender that’s played in England before him.

Ryan Giggs got favourably compared to George Best when he was a teenager, it’s a great accolade but it doesn’t mean that much in this particular context. George Best is not the GOAT. Possibly the British GOAT.

George Best once said, out of all the players being compared with him in the past, its actually first time he feel complimented when people compared Ronaldo with him, and he was around 19 or 20 at that time. So at least, George Best the man himself, who is regarded as one of the most talented player ever, really rate young Ronaldo highly, and probably higher than most others he has seen over the years.

But yeh, I don't considered Ronaldo as a GOAT contender (comparable to Pele, Maradona), not until his mid late Real Madrid years. He just pushed himself up to that tier with his achievements (Ballon D'ors, CL & goal records), rather than pure talents. But even so, talent wise I used to think he has the potential to become as good as L.Ronaldo or even Cruyff, when he was just around 22 with us. So he is not really far from that level even at the beginning.

So I would say, talent wise Ronaldo at age 20-22, was very close to that level (of George Best, Cruyff etc)
Performance wise, Ronaldo at age 23-29, was as good as any GOAT in the past (avg rating 8.5, 15+ motm, 50--60 goals, 10-15 assists per season for around 7 years)
Achievement wise, by the time Ronaldo reached the age of 30-36, has definitely reached that level too (5 Ballon D'ors, 5 CL, outscored Pele in official goals, breaking multiple major all time records)

 

[Pocho]

Is this even a debate anymore?

Never was. Only here, and not even

 

[Oly Francis]

Comparing Messi's goals/games against top 6 PL teams with Ronaldo's, and attempt to leverage him in the discussion with that, is about as - and I'm sorry here, but it's the truth - as dumb as comparing Ronaldo's La Liga goals/game to Messi's to leverage Ronnie in the same discussion.

Edit: thanks Morty_ below me! Bingo. Senseless comparison.

I think you missed the part where I wrote "fun fact" and not "ultimate argument". It's obviously dumb, almost useless and pretty much as senseless as believing that Messi wouldn't have ripped appart Crystal Palace or Burnley.

 

[bakalhau]

I think you missed the part where I wrote "fun fact" and not "ultimate argument". It's obviously dumb, almost useless and pretty much as senseless as believing that Messi wouldn't have ripped appart Crystal Palace or Burnley.

Oh yeah, that's senseless too. He'd probably mince most teams, most of the time. That's part of the reason I really wanted Messi in the PL this past summer. I'm sure he'd do well, I'd just like to see *how* well. Certainly would be more interesting than watching him at the boring PSG and Ligue 1.

 

[JeffFromHK]

Yes, I’m sure Norwich, Watford and Southampton would be Messi’s kryptonite

Poor sarcasm.

Messi must have done very well against Lens, Nice, Marsille, Rennes, Lyonr recently?

 

[JeffFromHK]

Vardy is a very bad comparison, he's actually more comparable to Ronaldo since he doesn't have Messi's ability to create a goal out of thin air. If one of the two is supposed to be better against big teams, it's Ronaldo. That's one of the reasons why Barcelona won far more La Liga title than Real Madrid, even with a weaker team, Messi was far more consistent against weaker teams while Ronaldo thrives in high pressure CL games.

Fun fact, Messi's goal ratio against top6 PL clubs (the picture is a month old or so) is twice as high as Ronaldo's :

I am not "comparing" Vardy with Messi. How can be that be a "bad comparison"?

I am purely talking about logic. I am replying to the logic of Messi fanboys that "since Messi plays well against Big 6 in champions league, he must be able to dominate the Premier League". One incidence given by me is sufficient to show that "the fact that someone plays well against big6 doesn't necessary mean that he will play even better against the lower teams.

Ronaldo is irrelevant to the debate on this particular topic so showing Ronaldo's "poor G/A ratio" against big6 does not save your day.

 

[Gehrman]

Wait Cristiano has just one goal against Chelsea?

Yes

 

[Daysleeper]

Poor sarcasm.

Messi must have done very well against Lens, Nice, Marsille, Rennes, Lyonr recently?

Scored against man city, but yes, he didn’t lose to watford 4-1. Hell Leicester and west ham got humbled in Europa

 

[Daysleeper]

Vardy is a very bad comparison, he's actually more comparable to Ronaldo since he doesn't have Messi's ability to create a goal out of thin air. If one of the two is supposed to be better against big teams, it's Ronaldo. That's one of the reasons why Barcelona won far more La Liga title than Real Madrid, even with a weaker team, Messi was far more consistent against weaker teams while Ronaldo thrives in high pressure CL games.

Fun fact, Messi's goal ratio against top6 PL clubs (the picture is a month old or so) is twice as high as Ronaldo's :

beautifully said. It’s amazing how much people overrate the teams you inside the top 6 in PL like burnley are a hundred times the team that burnley are. PL has had far more lopsided matches and less of a title race in a majority of recent seasons than even la liga has had.

 

[Gehrman]

I am not "comparing" Vardy with Messi. How can be that be a "bad comparison"?

I am purely talking about logic. I am replying to the logic of Messi fanboys that "since Messi plays well against Big 6 in champions league, he must be able to dominate the Premier League". One incidence given by me is sufficient to show that "the fact that someone plays well against big6 doesn't necessary mean that he will play even better against the lower teams.

Ronaldo is irrelevant to the debate on this particular topic so showing Ronaldo's "poor G/A ratio" against big6 does not save your day.

It's illogical to use Vardy as a reference point in the first place.

 

[Caesar2290]

Scored against man city, but yes, he didn’t lose to watford 4-1. Hell Leicester and west ham got humbled in Europa

To be fair, his team came from a 7+ goal hammering from Bayern twice. The only time that I Ronaldo got hammered was in that El Classico back in 2010 I think.

Actually that is a blemish on Messi's record. His Barca side gets hammered quiet often by the European counterparts. Pool, Bayern x2, even a 10 man Chelsea snuck past them to the final. If it weren't for that 6-1, even PSG put 4 goals past him in the first leg.

beautifully said. It’s amazing how much people overrate the teams you inside the top 6 in PL like burnley are a hundred times the team that burnley are. PL has had far more lopsided matches and less of a title race in a majority of recent seasons than even la liga has had.

Ah yes: the mega competitive La Liga where the last team to win the League outside the Big 3 is Valencia 16 years ago. Meanwhile the one horse PL had Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Leicester as the winners in the same time frame.

If it weren't for the sugar daddy clubs, you could have added Totenham to that mix as well.

 

[Daysleeper]

To be fair, his team came from a 7+ goal hammering from Bayern twice. The only time that I Ronaldo got hammered was in that El Classico back in 2010 I think.

Actually that is a blemish on Messi's record. His Barca side gets hammered quiet often by the European counterparts. Pool, Bayern x2, even a 10 man Chelsea snuck past them to the final. If it weren't for that 6-1, even PSG put 4 goals past him in the first leg.


Ah yes: the mega competitive La Liga where the last team to win the League outside the Big 3 is Valencia 16 years ago. Meanwhile the one horse PL had Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Leicester as the winners in the same time frame.

If it weren't for the sugar daddy clubs, you could have added Totenham to that mix as well.

Horrible takes, man city had turned it into a one horse league winning the league 4 of the 5 past seasons and leading the table yet again.

messi Losing is a blemish but let’s discount the hammering to Chelsea in 2018, Liverpool in 2019, psg in 2017, and all the other PL sides Messi has annihilated throughout his career.

let’s also add the “blemish” of 10 man Chelsea despite the fact that they beat Bayern as well.

but hey, it could be worse, could’ve been 4-1 to watford for r the thrashings from city and historical thrashing from Liverpool this season alone

Ronaldo has been hammered several times by Barca, not just 2010 so that’s false. Messi was injured (along with several other players for Barca) in 2013 but yea, Bayern have owned Barca.

PL is becoming less and less competitive over the years. I think it’s still the best league in the world, but the way people overrate the teams that aren’t CL worthy is hilarious.

Leicester was an outlier over the last 100 years and considering what they accomplished after 2016 (zilch) shows how fluky that season was, even if it was an amazing moment.

as the money gap grows the epl will only get more and more lopsided:


In that same time, no English club has won the league more than five times, which would make the Premier League one of the most competitive leagues in Europe. Only Montenegro, San Marino and Kosovo have seen their top side win the title fewer times, while in Croatia, Dinamo Zagreb have won titles in each of the past 15 seasons bar 2016/17.


But when it comes to the difference between the top teams and the rest, the Premier League is far less competitive, even if West Ham United and Leicester City are giving the big boys a real run for their money this season.

Manchester City’s 4-1 win over Wolverhampton Wanderers in midweek means they currently have 65 points. Had they won every game this season, they would have 81 points, so Pep Guardiola’s side have picked up 80.2% of the points available to them so far this season. At the other end of the table, Sheffield United have earned 14% of the points available and West Bromwich Albion have 21.7% of the points available at the time of writing.

FIFA’s report looks at the percentage of points won by the top three clubs over the past five seasons, with the higher percentage won, the less competitive the league.

By that measure, the Premier League is the seventh least competitive league in Europe, with the top team winning 83% of the available points, second place winning 73%, and third winning 64%. Germany is ranked the tenth least competitive with 81%, 69% and 61%, while Italy is the most competitive of Europe’s big five leagues with 79%, 74%, and 68%.

https://pasteboard.co/anVsH03UyZZg.jpg

 

[Wolf1992]

To be fair, his team came from a 7+ goal hammering from Bayern twice. The only time that I Ronaldo got hammered was in that El Classico back in 2010 I think.

Actually that is a blemish on Messi's record. His Barca side gets hammered quiet often by the European counterparts. Pool, Bayern x2, even a 10 man Chelsea snuck past them to the final. If it weren't for that 6-1, even PSG put 4 goals past him in the first leg.


Ah yes: the mega competitive La Liga where the last team to win the League outside the Big 3 is Valencia 16 years ago. Meanwhile the one horse PL had Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Leicester as the winners in the same time frame.

If it weren't for the sugar daddy clubs, you could have added Totenham to that mix as well.

Sugar daddy clubs are making PL more competitive, if it was for them, it would be a league dominated by either Liverpool or Man Utd.

Man Utd could have won 2 PL titles with Ole and washed up Mourinho had not been for Abu Dahbi City.

 

[Gehrman]

I always love these narratives where a single player either Ronnie or Messi is responsible for the entire team and especially the defense taking a major trashing.

 

[Daysleeper]

I always love these narratives where a single player either Ronnie or Messi is responsible for the entire team and especially the defense taking a major trashing.

yes, it’s a false premise for sure

 

[Gehrman]

yes, it’s a false premise for sure

Well its just like a quote from above "even PSG put 4 past Messi"

I didnt know he was playing as keeper or cb in that game.

 

[NasirTimothy]

Yeah that's true but last season might've been a false representation of the squad quality since Liverpool were heavily depleted and Chelsea were thoroughly mismanaged for most of it with their purchases also taking time to adapt. I feel that when every current PL squad is at their max potential we are 3rd/4th best on paper. We're probably on par or just below Chelsea but not as good as Liverpool/Man City

Fair enough

 

[NasirTimothy]

George Best once said, out of all the players being compared with him in the past, its actually first time he feel complimented when people compared Ronaldo with him, and he was around 19 or 20 at that time. So at least, George Best the man himself, who is regarded as one of the most talented player ever, really rate young Ronaldo highly, and probably higher than most others he has seen over the years.

But yeh, I don't considered Ronaldo as a GOAT contender (comparable to Pele, Maradona), not until his mid late Real Madrid years. He just pushed himself up to that tier with his achievements (Ballon D'ors, CL & goal records), rather than pure talents. But even so, talent wise I used to think he has the potential to become as good as L.Ronaldo or even Cruyff, when he was just around 22 with us. So he is not really far from that level even at the beginning.

So I would say, talent wise Ronaldo at age 20-22, was very close to that level (of George Best, Cruyff etc)
Performance wise, Ronaldo at age 23-29, was as good as any GOAT in the past (avg rating 8.5, 15+ motm, 50--60 goals, 10-15 assists per season for around 7 years)
Achievement wise, by the time Ronaldo reached the age of 30-36, has definitely reached that level too (5 Ballon D'ors, 5 CL, outscored Pele in official goals, breaking multiple major all time records)

We disagree on some things but I think you’ve made a lot of good points here

 

[Bebestation]

Meh-ssi

 

[Drygon]

Man United vs. PSG in UCL Round of 16

Messi and Cristiano fanboys preparing to the war as we speak

 

[JeffFromHK]

It's illogical to use Vardy as a reference point in the first place.

Vardy was never used as a "reference point"
Go back to school and learn the difference between an example and a reference.

 

[Samid]

Little dictator must be thanking his lucky stars that the draw was voided.

 

[Daysleeper]

Little dictator must be thanking his lucky stars that the draw was voided.

I don’t know, united may get knocked out by Atletico but Ronaldo has fared well against them in the past so he should be okay with it

 

[Zehner]

Little dictator must be thanking his lucky stars that the draw was voided.

Bet he's celebrating that he plays little Real Madrid than the force of nature that United currently is.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

I don’t know, united may get knocked out by Atletico but Ronaldo has fared well against them in the past so he should be okay with it

I didn’t realise Messi also had a dislike for Atletico as well. Hopefully Ronnie does him a favour and gives them another slapping.

 

[Bebestation]

He definitely is a GOAT level player because ultimately he was very consistent for the 2 teams he grew up and played for.

However, how Frenkie De Jong described La Liga vs PL is why I didn't end up getting carried out about Messi's skillful technical ability as much as others did. He was on another level in La Liga - a league that epitomises the skill of a player both in how they attack and how the opposition tries to defend. Then there's him playing for Barcelona - the most engraved philosophy trained in to a football club i have ever seen with the ability to control the possesion with their eyes closed no matter how great or crap the manager is or the opposition is. Even with such a tactical philosophy ingrained to the brain and feet of his players - I don't even bother considering how highly skillful team could be anyway playing in possesion with players like Messi, Neymar, Suarez, Iniesta, Xavi, Dani Alves, Pedro, Ronaldinho, Zlatan, Eto'o, David Villa etc.

Spoiler

De Jong said: “I used to think that La Liga was the strongest football league in the world. You could see their dominance in European Cup competitions.


“The Spanish clubs always progressed a long way and often grabbed the main trophies, the Champions League and Europa League


“But the Premier League has gained power over the last few years.


“When it comes to pure skills, La Liga is better. But because of the sheer intensity, the English competition is at a slightly higher level.”

 

[genardk]

He definitely is a GOAT level player because ultimately he was very consistent for the 2 teams he grew up and played for.

However, how Frenkie De Jong described La Liga vs PL is why I didn't end up getting carried out about Messi's skillful technical ability as much as others did. He was on another level in La Liga - a league that epitomises the skill of a player both in how they attack and how the opposition tries to defend. Then there's him playing for Barcelona - the most engraved philosophy trained in to a football club i have ever seen with the ability to control the possesion with their eyes closed no matter how great or crap the manager is or the opposition is. Even with such a tactical philosophy ingrained to the brain and feet of his players - I don't even bother considering how highly skillful team could be anyway playing in possesion with players like Messi, Neymar, Suarez, Iniesta, Xavi, Dani Alves, Pedro, Ronaldinho, Zlatan, Eto'o, David Villa etc.

Spoiler

De Jong said: “I used to think that La Liga was the strongest football league in the world. You could see their dominance in European Cup competitions.


“The Spanish clubs always progressed a long way and often grabbed the main trophies, the Champions League and Europa League


“But the Premier League has gained power over the last few years.


“When it comes to pure skills, La Liga is better. But because of the sheer intensity, the English competition is at a slightly higher level.”

La Liga teams completely dominated PL teams in between 2008-2018 winning 23 out of 27 draws against PL teams in European competitions, if that's not complete domination, I do not know what is. Technique+Tactics >>> Tempo/Intensity at least in that period as indicated by consistently poor showings of PL teams.. Plus, De Jong joined Barca in 2019 where La Liga was already on the decline. Last few years, obviously, PL teams have an edge over La Liga rivals.. Also, City, the most successful PL team in the last 5 years with the most entertaining style is being managed by a La Liga product with particular focus on technique+tactics not just tempo/intensity.

Regardless, I am struggling to understand the reason behind the Premier League hype (bar the last few seasons) when the reality is that they were totally dominated in all competitions for such a long time and La Liga was the king of the national leagues..

 

[Pocho]

Little dictator must be thanking his lucky stars that the draw was voided.

Yes, because he did bad against United and Ronaldo

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

He definitely is a GOAT level player because ultimately he was very consistent for the 2 teams he grew up and played for.

However, how Frenkie De Jong described La Liga vs PL is why I didn't end up getting carried out about Messi's skillful technical ability as much as others did. He was on another level in La Liga - a league that epitomises the skill of a player both in how they attack and how the opposition tries to defend. Then there's him playing for Barcelona - the most engraved philosophy trained in to a football club i have ever seen with the ability to control the possesion with their eyes closed no matter how great or crap the manager is or the opposition is. Even with such a tactical philosophy ingrained to the brain and feet of his players - I don't even bother considering how highly skillful team could be anyway playing in possesion with players like Messi, Neymar, Suarez, Iniesta, Xavi, Dani Alves, Pedro, Ronaldinho, Zlatan, Eto'o, David Villa etc.

Spoiler

De Jong said: “I used to think that La Liga was the strongest football league in the world. You could see their dominance in European Cup competitions.


“The Spanish clubs always progressed a long way and often grabbed the main trophies, the Champions League and Europa League


“But the Premier League has gained power over the last few years.


“When it comes to pure skills, La Liga is better. But because of the sheer intensity, the English competition is at a slightly higher level.”

PL is much stronger now but La Liga was stronger at their peaks and for most of their careers. Unlike other great players we have the benefit of direct head to head in league format, and Messi has won 6 La Ligas to Ronaldo’s 2 when they were both star players for their teams in the strongest league in the world.

 

[Wolf1992]

He definitely is a GOAT level player because ultimately he was very consistent for the 2 teams he grew up and played for.

However, how Frenkie De Jong described La Liga vs PL is why I didn't end up getting carried out about Messi's skillful technical ability as much as others did. He was on another level in La Liga - a league that epitomises the skill of a player both in how they attack and how the opposition tries to defend. Then there's him playing for Barcelona - the most engraved philosophy trained in to a football club i have ever seen with the ability to control the possesion with their eyes closed no matter how great or crap the manager is or the opposition is. Even with such a tactical philosophy ingrained to the brain and feet of his players - I don't even bother considering how highly skillful team could be anyway playing in possesion with players like Messi, Neymar, Suarez, Iniesta, Xavi, Dani Alves, Pedro, Ronaldinho, Zlatan, Eto'o, David Villa etc.

Spoiler

De Jong said: “I used to think that La Liga was the strongest football league in the world. You could see their dominance in European Cup competitions.


“The Spanish clubs always progressed a long way and often grabbed the main trophies, the Champions League and Europa League


“But the Premier League has gained power over the last few years.


“When it comes to pure skills, La Liga is better. But because of the sheer intensity, the English competition is at a slightly higher level.”

Skill and technical abilities should be valued more than intensity and speed, for a reason.
We are watching Football, not Men's 100 meters at the Olympics ffs.

People are not gonna pay a ticket to watch Adama Traore run 50 metres in 6-7 seconds and then lose the ball due to a horrible first touch, they pay to watch Messi,Kroos,Scholes,Figo,Cristiano,Pirlo,Beckham, Laudrup,Zidane,Iniesta,Neymar, etc.

The reason PL was far behind Serie A and La Liga in the 90s, it's because PL back then was mostly about being strong and fast, and the technical quality of players outside of 2 teams was behind their counterparts from Spain and Italy.
Luckily for PL, it was Wenger who started to change this by bringing Henry, Vieira, Pires,Bergkamp,etc, and give a proper fight to United, whose dominance wasn't only due to SAF, but also for having more technical players than any other english team stuck with the "fast and strong, but not so good on the ball" mentality.

PL is the best now for having talented players like Bernardo Silva,Salah,Jorginho,De Bruyne,Gundogan,Thiago Silva,Odegaard,etc NOT because of Adama Traore running like Usain Bolt or Lukaku being big and strong.

 

[Shark]

In the end, this all still boils down to the fact that Messi completely defied the odds over more than a decade by keeping u in terms of goals and assists with a all out target striker despite playing in a much deeper position. Criticize Messi for his season, I'm completely with you there, but these comparisons are apple and oranges and have been for the whole time. It is absolutely ridiculous that Messi still has a higher goal density than Cristiano who's one of the most productive strikers to ever play the game despite playing in a position from which he is far less likely to score.

How is it that Messi has completely defied the odds playing in positions he isn't as likely to score which has truth to it but debatable and let's not forget Ronaldo at United(first time) wasn't an out and out striker he was a midfielder. Yet the other who is still producing in disorganised and confidence shattered sides isn't defying the odds because he's not as pretty on the eye as the other. That seems unfair and the bar is hardly lower given that fact.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

This thread is tiresome now, how do you guys keep going?

The same arguments are being made that were made 300 pages ago.

 

[Gehrman]

This thread is tiresome now, how do you guys keep going?

The same arguments are being made that were made 300 pages ago.

I think we all have too much time on our hands.

 

[Gehrman]

How is it that Messi has completely defied the odds playing in positions he isn't as likely to score which has truth to it but debatable and let's not forget Ronaldo at United(first time) wasn't an out and out striker he was a midfielder. Yet the other who is still producing in disorganised and confidence shattered sides isn't defying the odds because he's not as pretty on the eye as the other. That seems unfair and the bar is hardly lower given that fact.

Ronaldo was only a winger untill the 2007/2008 season where he became a wing forward. Since then he's been a forward with limited defensive duties a bit like Messi, but never dropped deep like Messi who was much more involved in the overall play. But anyway there is no doubt that Ronaldo is having a better 2021-2022 season than Messi so far.

 

[Lord SInister]

I think we all have too much time on our hands.

work from home for some of us means we have time even during office hours

 

[Gehrman]

work from home for some of us means we have time even during office hours

It's pretty much this

Pro Messi: His technical ability is much better. He's a goat dribbler and goalscorer. On top of that his passing and playmaking abilities are sublime and his far more involved in the overall play of the game.

Pro Ronaldo: He's a goat goalscorer, also technically great but not quite like Messi, best header ever maybe, Won trophies and scored a lot goals with Man Utd, Real Madrid and Juventus and won 5 CL's overall and won a euro with portugal.

and then the conversation endlessly revolves around Messi staying at Barcelona for so long unlike Ronaldo who has been succesfull in 3 different leagues. ad nauseam

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

It's pretty much this

Pro Messi: His technical ability is much better. He's a goat dribbler and goalscorer. On top of that his passing and playmaking abilities are sublime and his far more involved in the overall play of the game.

Pro Ronaldo: He's a goat goalscorer, also technically great but not quite like Messi, best header ever maybe, Won trophies and scored a lot goals with Man Utd, Real Madrid and Juventus and won 5 CL's overall and won a euro with portugal.

and then the conversation endlessly revolves around Messi staying at Barcelona for so long unlike Ronaldo who has been succesfull in 3 different leagues. ad nauseam

And also what they do now at club level is pretty much irrelevant, it might seem relevant now in the moment (as it has been in the past 669 pages) but since they've played thousands of games and scored hundreds and hundreds of goals, individual league games at this point are pretty irrelevant to the overall argument.

The one thing left that could really change people's minds is if one of them won the World Cup as the star player, that's the one gap in the CVs compared to Maradona and Pele. Messi at the moment has had a better World Cup than Ronaldo, but both haven't hit the heights of other greats. And that's the one tournament you can compare over generations. At this point in their careers, what they do against Dijon or Norwich doesn't matter.