I just cant see why Messi would want to move in his prime? Give me one good option that would be better than what he already had and who could afford his transfer fee and wages.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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What is there to argue with you? As an outsider you have no idea what Ronaldo means to a lifelong United supporter. I have repeatedly said as footballers both are the best of their generation and will go down in history among the very best to have played the game. It's you who are bringing in inane analogies such as McDonalds and whatnot. And I know for a lot of people it's cool to hate CR. I personally know such tools. You are just a faceless person on the internet, why would I argue with you?
Ronaldo...a journeyman career. Jesus, I've heard it all now.
Messi is very close to Barcelona, he lives there since he is a kid, and he has catalan ancestors from his father side.He has attachments to Barcelona, they literally paid his hormonal treatment after River Plate rejected him.
Ronaldo attachments to United are way less, he was looking to get out after the winking incident with Rooney.And left for Real Madrid at the first chance he had.
It's safe to say that Barcelona means more for Messi than what Manchester United means for Ronaldo.
And let's not forget thar Mendes first offered Ronaldo to City before United.
The River Plate part its not true. River agreed to pay the treatment, the thing was that Newells Didn't allow him to sign for them, then Barcelona appeared and promised work for his father and they left Rosario.
It’s an interesting analogy but I don’t think it really holds up under scrutiny. Messi is not really ‘art’ compared to a Maradona or a Ronaldinho and Ronaldo is not really ‘science’ because (especially early on) there was a lot of artistry to his game and he retains a bit of that even now.This is why I call Messi an Artist. Its the love for his technical artistic ability that people love, the thing that gets better the more relaxed he is, the more calm he is, the more playing with his most suited ingredients, against the same artistic competition; needing his best bits and pieces to get the best result out of his artistic drawings.
Ronaldo is a scientist, its more the mentality or brain of the player people love. The way he has almost created a scientific theory that is applicable to everywhere, every when, every scenario and every style like it's a scientific theory by Einstein or Darwin. Just like most Scientists or science - it isn't the most beautiful work.
Just as much as you say that people like you or Souness were able to call Messi the GOAT by the age of 22 -
The people opposite to that type of mindset was able to watch and test Ronaldo through a consistent career that is still going strong at the age of 36 in the hardest league in the world.
Just like a science - it was tested and experimented on, anywhere, any when, how, any settling time needed, the quality of opponent through a whole year rather than just once or twice in a year- with records at the most competitive natures like it was just a portion of scientific data..
Ronaldo is a science. Messi is an Art.
I'm glad you enjoy what you enjoy the most mate! Likewise I'm enjoying mine
But you’ve come up with a good way of glossing over the fact that Ronaldo became a penalty box poacher by claiming that he created a falsifiable scientific theory
So in essence, it's not the argument that matters to you but the one bringing it up. And loyalty is more inportant to you than arguments anyway. Truth is, if Messi was the same player but spent his career at United and Cristiano had his break through for Barcelona, you'd be arguing the polar opposite with same of level of conviction. Which is probably why you are okay with making arguments void of any logic. They're exchangable for you, it's the conclusion that is pre-defined. Why should anybody take your posts seriously then? You're obviously not even trying to look past your biases, in fact you're rather proud of them.
It's called cognitive dissonances and the root of rather nasty behaviors such as conspiracy theories and fake news. Which is why stuff like this triggers me.
So?
Cost = Quality now?
We spent almost £150M alone on Maguire and Wan Bissaka.
Liverpool bought their entire front line for less than that.
Generally that’s exactly what it is, yes. Good things are expensive and bad things are cheap, though there are exceptions. Players that were bought expensively by United were bought expensively because they’d done well elsewhere.
When City do well, it’s all ‘bu-but Pep’s spending is insane!!’
When United do terribly, the fact that they’ve spent near a billion on their squad is no biggie, apparently.
Ronaldo was already the best player in a team with other world class stars and best player in England by 21. Cruyff said he was better than George Best by 22-23.
Yeah but the price of the player isn’t necessarily directly identical to their quality on the pitch. Maguire and AWB were good players before they came to United but nobody ever thought they were worth the £50M and £85M paid for them respectively. The selling teams absolutely didn’t need to nor want to sell which is why we overpaid for them so it’s really not as simple as “good things are expensive” and “bad things are cheap” like you’re trying to Illustrate.
Pretty much this.
Doesnt always translate to the pitch. Look at Barca's transfer history post neymar.
Ok Karen.
For those who use Messi's record against "Big 6" to interpolate that he will thrash the premier league, note the following stats:
Vardy scored 43 and assisted 16 in 72 games against big 6 - 0.82 goals/assists per game
and he scored 127 and assisted 39 in 260 premier league games as a whole - 0.65 goals/assists per game
Vardy scored 43 and assisted 16 in 72 games against big 6 - 0.82 goals/assists per game
and he scored 127 and assisted 39 in 260 premier league games as a whole - 0.65 goals/assists per game
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For the past few pages, seemed like one set of fanboys relied heavily on personal insults and useless one liners to “debate” their points.
Weird, didnt see the beacon of everything morally right Pickle85 calling them out. Probably because the beacon and these 50cents army supports the same idol.
Colour me unsurprised
Weird, didnt see the beacon of everything morally right Pickle85 calling them out. Probably because the beacon and these 50cents army supports the same idol.
Colour me unsurprised
Why is it yawn, you still won’t answer that point, you’re putting too much heed into players moving teams and not playing in England. Most of the best players in history never played in England, it’s quite irrelevant. Most of the best players of the past 20 years didn’t play in England - Maldini, Nedved, Nesta, Ronaldo, Zidane, Iniesta, Xavi, Buffon, Lewandowski, Neymar, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Ribery, Lahm, Ramos, Neuer, Villa, Kroos etc, none of these players ‘tested’ themselves in England, but it doesn’t matter. Why would it matter for Messi then?
Messi was much better in clasicos head to head against Ronaldo.
Don't put words in my mouth. Read my earlier posts of it's that important to you. Never have said anything about proving oneself in England. Also in a comparison between Messi and CR where the feck are all these other players butting in from? This is not a GOAT discussion for me. FYI none of these two are GOAT for me.
And one important question. Why is it so important that I should accept X player as the better between X and Y? Y is my choice and I am happy with it. If X is someone's choice is it really that important that they have to shove that choice down someone's throat. Why do people get so triggered if the choice of Messi/CR does not match their own.
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Yes, I’m sure Norwich, Watford and Southampton would be Messi’s kryptonite
Don't forget Stoke.
Nothing you said contradicts what I said though. Ronaldo IMO did not display GOAT level ability at a young age. I don’t recall any commentator or pundit saying ‘that’s the best player I’ve ever seen’ when he was playing for United the first time around. I mean you’d struggle to find many saying it even now.
Being the best player in England is great but I don’t think there’s ever been a serious GOAT contender that’s played in England before him.
Ryan Giggs got favourably compared to George Best when he was a teenager, it’s a great accolade but it doesn’t mean that much in this particular context. George Best is not the GOAT. Possibly the British GOAT.
Yet, he won a single La Liga title, then the best league in the world, in all these 5 years, also winning a single La Liga best player award in 9 years. He did not even play in the final against France more than 15 minutes and Portugal's EC 2016 rivals were weaker than Argentina's 2021 COPA rivals. Also, Sergio Ramos and Bale were easily the most influential players in the CL finals for Real.
Yes, Barca have been very poorly run but here’s their results since Neymar left:
La Liga x 2
Copa Del Rey x 2
CL semi final
In that time, United have spent more than Barca and won nothing.
I understand what you are saying but there is a certain level of success that should be expected if you spend more than everyone else (which United have done, bar one team in Europe).
And Ronaldo has scored 31 goals in 84 games, 0.37 goal per game, embarrassing tbh when compared with Vardy.
Messi destroyed PL teams with style (playmaking, dribbling, creating chances, overall creativity) not just with his goals as he is not a penalty box poacher, you can watch his highlights against City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal on youtube to see what I mean.
Yeah, one of the best games I've seen of Messi was a Champions League against Man City where he didn't score.
PL was behind Serie A and La Liga when most of those player were active.
Also i don't think that user said anything about not playing in PL = not great.
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Answer: it doesn’t
I don’t think he understands what a journeyman is?
Is this even a debate anymore?
Because.. one player got a penalty to win a game being horrific most of the game? This is a classic Ronaldo match. Paying bad and then scoring a goal. Classic. But hey, stats.
Actually I didn't. Anyway I think it's fair credit to Ronaldo for the career he's had and the clubs he's played for, but no one has still been able to answer me what would be a logical move for Messi in his prime that wouldn't be a step down in just about anything.
Yeah true but that’s besides the point isn’t it? The main idea was that despite heavy spending (largely on crap), United still have the 4th best team in the league on paper.
Yup, Ronaldo's career has been founded on being horrendous/playing badly and scoring. Right, CLASSIC Ronaldo. Rich man's Kevin Phillips.
Yes, but United finished third two years ago and second last season and then brought in Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane. That was supposed to result at least in a reasonable title challenge.
Yeah that's true but last season might've been a false representation of the squad quality since Liverpool were heavily depleted and Chelsea were thoroughly mismanaged for most of it with their purchases also taking time to adapt. I feel that when every current PL squad is at their max potential we are 3rd/4th best on paper. We're probably on par or just below Chelsea but not as good as Liverpool/Man City
Vardy is a very bad comparison, he's actually more comparable to Ronaldo since he doesn't have Messi's ability to create a goal out of thin air. If one of the two is supposed to be better against big teams, it's Ronaldo. That's one of the reasons why Barcelona won far more La Liga title than Real Madrid, even with a weaker team, Messi was far more consistent against weaker teams while Ronaldo thrives in high pressure CL games.
Fun fact, Messi's goal ratio against top6 PL clubs (the picture is a month old or so) is twice as high as Ronaldo's :
Wait Cristiano has just one goal against Chelsea?Vardy is a very bad comparison, he's actually more comparable to Ronaldo since he doesn't have Messi's ability to create a goal out of thin air. If one of the two is supposed to be better against big teams, it's Ronaldo. That's one of the reasons why Barcelona won far more La Liga title than Real Madrid, even with a weaker team, Messi was far more consistent against weaker teams while Ronaldo thrives in high pressure CL games.
Fun fact, Messi's goal ratio against top6 PL clubs (the picture is a month old or so) is twice as high as Ronaldo's :
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