It isn't just to accomodate him. Pogba, Herrera, Mkhitaryan, Martial and Zlatan would all most likely benefit from it also imo.
16
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 38
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Status
Carrick is finished. We're heading for a final season Gaz/Keane style here
I thought he was average. Didn't control the game and very little of the incisive passing he does when he's playing well.
Our midfield options don't really look very good which is disappointing after all the money invested in it. Hopefully Pogba will change that.
Our midfield options don't really look very good which is disappointing after all the money invested in it. Hopefully Pogba will change that.
It seems you've gone from he's a vital part of the team to he needs to be replaced in the space of 3 posts.
As for this
>no one can do the job better than him
Schweinsteiger can and he's playing with the reserve to give space for Carrick.
What is this magical power a "3 man midfield" have that can turn bad players good? He's already got plenty of space being the deepest midfielder. What player would not like to have more space? But space is limited and if he moves any deeper he'd be a centre back.
It's like the British press with Wayne Rooney. Excuses and excuses. He needs to play in this formation. In this position. Blah blah blah.
This will turn out to be his one season too many.
He and Rooney are the one's who just dont look fit or mobile enough. I hope Schneiderlin or Blind can take over his role and make the step up
I see. So according to our support base, Carrick has gone from being someone who should be starting every week and is one of the best in the side to someone who should have packed it all in and is bloody hopeless. All off performance.
Don't get me wrong he wasn't great yesterday but changing your opinion on a player based on a performance is just wrong. Didn't have his best game but the same applies with all our players. One game should not change an opinion on a player. Form comes and goes, if it goes for a significant amount of time then perhaps there is something there but the way opinions change based on one fixture is just wrong IMO.
I'm not sure where he fits in this year but he's a good professional who (I'm lead to believe) trains hard and is good with the younger players. He's made a career at this club and you need players in a squad who know what is required to win and he has that. You can't have a squad full of them but 2/3 is needed if possible in my opinion.
Plenty of games this season for guys to put their hands up and fight for a shirt when the big games come around, especially in midfield.
Don't get me wrong he wasn't great yesterday but changing your opinion on a player based on a performance is just wrong. Didn't have his best game but the same applies with all our players. One game should not change an opinion on a player. Form comes and goes, if it goes for a significant amount of time then perhaps there is something there but the way opinions change based on one fixture is just wrong IMO.
I'm not sure where he fits in this year but he's a good professional who (I'm lead to believe) trains hard and is good with the younger players. He's made a career at this club and you need players in a squad who know what is required to win and he has that. You can't have a squad full of them but 2/3 is needed if possible in my opinion.
Plenty of games this season for guys to put their hands up and fight for a shirt when the big games come around, especially in midfield.
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Carrick is 35, it is not rocket science that we need to replace him.
Schweinsteiger is very injury prone, good luck relying on him for a full season.
The pivot role is almost like a third CB though. With 2 hard working midfielders in front of him, it would put less pressure on Carrick when we need to defend and when he is on the ball.
There is no excuses, we would all love to have Xhaka/Busquets/Verratti, but we will have to put our faith in Carrick and accomodate a bit to his game. Without him, our midfield becomes unbalanced.
I didn't want him to get a new contract but I felt less worried after everyone said that he wouldn't be a starter and Mourinho was just keeping him for his 'dressing room influence'.
If he actually is a starter then we're in real trouble. His mobility is almost non-existent nowadays. It doesn't matter how well you read the game (and Carrick has always been superb in this regard) if the danger is occurring in an area of the pitch you physically cannot get to in time you're nothing but a spectator.
If he actually is a starter then we're in real trouble. His mobility is almost non-existent nowadays. It doesn't matter how well you read the game (and Carrick has always been superb in this regard) if the danger is occurring in an area of the pitch you physically cannot get to in time you're nothing but a spectator.
He was already playing like this last season. Defensive wise he's only ever "good" when the team is very deep and his job is just to sit in front on the defence. He's hopeless during a counter attack when he's got someone running at him. Not aggressive and precise enough to go in for a tackle. Not fast enough to keep up with the runner.
Attacking wise, his long range passing has really turned to shit. He very rarely plays a long pass anymore and when he does he's very inconsistent. He's also still a very predictable passer.
This has been going on for a year. LvG was right to tell him his time was up. For some reason Mourinho thought differently.
These are reasons why he's in the team. Not why he's a vital part of the team like you said. If he was playing well then age would not matter. Schweinsteiger might be injury prone but he's still much better than Carrick. Why was Carrick not let go and a new midfielder brought in then?
A midfielder is only ever like a third cb when his team is building up from the back. As soon as the play is move to midfield he should move too. Or do you suggest he stays in line with the cb throughout the match?
Our midfield is unbalanced whoever plays there because we don't have a world class number 6. Carrick does not fix this because he is not even competent anymore nevermind world class.
Wasn't giving an opinion on him either way with regards to whether he should start or not.
Point is, many on here were singing his praises only a week ago and after one performance that opinion has completely changed. Opinions on players shouldn't float week to week IMO but is done so frequently on this forum.
There are thousands of people on this forum. Are the people giving him praises last week the same people saying he's shit now? If not then I don't see a problem.
It's the same shite said about Carrick as the last 3-4 seasons. Signing Morgan and Bastian was supposed to be the end for Carrick and look how that worked out.
I'm going to say Carrick will be playing our biggest games and will be our most important midfielder again this season, even after Pogba signs. I reckon Jose will probably switch to 433 to get the best out of both. Carrick will have a slow start to the season but will kick on January onwards, as he usually does and after Jose has done experimenting.
He just turned 35 a week ago, never relied on pace, has had no major injuries and seems to look after himself on the pitch and off it. I think he's got at least one more season left in him.
I'm going to say Carrick will be playing our biggest games and will be our most important midfielder again this season, even after Pogba signs. I reckon Jose will probably switch to 433 to get the best out of both. Carrick will have a slow start to the season but will kick on January onwards, as he usually does and after Jose has done experimenting.
He just turned 35 a week ago, never relied on pace, has had no major injuries and seems to look after himself on the pitch and off it. I think he's got at least one more season left in him.
It's boring to have players you need to take off for no other reason than his stamina has run out. That leaves us with only 2 subs by default. I like Carrick though, just getting tired of constantly having dinosaurs in the squad to accommodate 
Look at the number of players we've signed that were supposed to displace Rooney. Yet he's still here. Still plays week in week out, still our captain and leader.
That must means he's a great player.
How can you liken Carrick's claim to to a starting spot to Rooney's?
Carrick has been comfortably our best midfielder for 3-4 seasons now, probably longer, despite all the challengers. Rooney on the other hand, is so far down the fans pecking order that he's come out the other side and is in China. It's pretty clear to everyone that he is an over the hill forward imitating a midfielder and shouldn't be anywhere near the starting 11.
Carrick when played in his preffered role, is still the best midfielder at the club.
This thread is three pages long. If you had seen last season's thread at least, you'd know there are plenty of us who are sick of him starting for us. Especially starting for us in big games when he's goes missing everytime.
Then what happens? We're being told here that his lack of mobility isn't the issue because he takes good positions.
Imo he's very overrated player currently, does well when not pressed and opposition sits deep, but once the game gets more intense he reverts to doing the simplest passes.
Playing 4-3-3 would benefit him no doubt, but I think giving more chances to Schneiderlin will benefit us in the longer run.
Not to the manager it isn't.
I'm saying that just because a manager puts a player in the starting 11 does not mean he is right. And it should not be the basis to say if said player is good or bad.
My memory is shit so I can't say I remember what Carrick was like 3 or 4 years ago. But I remember very well what happened last season.
Obviously I disagree. Imo Carrick is nowhere near our best midfielder, as there isn't anything he's best at when compared to others. Not as physical as Fellaini. Not as good at tackling as Schneiderlin. Not as good at passing as Rooney. Not as good at bring the ball forward as Schweinsteiger. Not as good in combination play as Herrera. He is well rounded yes. But it does not make up for the fact that he is incredibly average, if not downright bad at this moment in time.
I thought Carrick played well, although he did tire after half time. The only joy Leicester got was when they started bypassing our midfield. Would like to see some stats from the game. The comments in this thread don't match what I saw on the pitch.
I think with Pogba Carrick will get a new lease of life.
Fully expect him to play in the big games this season, and play well too.
Fully expect him to play in the big games this season, and play well too.
2:23 & 5:26
>The only joy Leicester got was when they started bypassing our midfield
Carrick was the most defensive part of the midfield.
The thing is mate if we played a '3 man Midfield' with Carrick in it would be working because the other two would be carrying him not because he's still up to it.
He absolutely will get caught on the ball this season. In fairness Leicester are one of the more high action teams to come up against and a team that will give a slow over the hill player like Carrick the most grief. But it won't be long until teams clock on that he just can't do it anymore. He's not crisp his passes are all just nice and easy and even then they take too long to come out. He doesn't get up the pitch and anyone with any amount of speed can burn him.
Unfortunately being a bit better than Schneiderlin doesn't make you good enough for Manchester United.
I know where you are coming from. I said the same thing about Scholes and Giggs but right now, name a suitable replacement?
You call Carrick overrated, I'd be interested in hearing what you think of Bastian after getting a closer look at him last season. The Carrick detractors say he goes missing in games but that's a charge Schneiderlin is far more guilty of whilst deferring all passing responsibilities to those around him.
There were plenty of posts last season of people applauding the incisive passing that Carrick brought to the side when he plays which was badly lacking with both Bastian and Schneiderlin.
What happened last season that makes you think Carrick was a poorer option than Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger?
For me, I used to dread the games Schneiderlin started because I knew he'd offer nothing in terms of taking control of the midfield and getting the ball forward. Schweinsteiger rarely had more than 60 minutes of football in him, just plenty of pointing and circulation of the ball, and Herrera spent most of last season being a cuddlier version of Gennero Guttuso.
Is this even serious? It's almost like like saying Smalling is our most physical defender, Jones is our toughest tackler and Daley Blind is our best passer therefore all three should start ahead of Bailly.
Probably the most important attribute you missed of your list was control and stability of the midfield. You can argue he's not the best at any one single attribute (which I disagree with), but he is the most functional midfielder of the lot, providing defensive stability and picking passes to initiate attacks. He effectively plays two roles whilst taking up one position, albeit needing more mobile midfield partners. He made a career out of not having to be physical or having to be a great tackler. So much so that SAF used him as the main stay of the side and relied on him to carry Giggs and Scholes in midfield twos.
Also, I'm not even sure Wayne Rooney is the best passer in his own family.
You just need to pick and choose who he plays against. A steam who will sit off and try to defend he will be fine against, but teams who press quickly with high energy he doesn't suit. Leicester got around him very quickly, to be fair the midfield was an absolute warzone for most of the game, none of the leicester players in the first half got hold of it either. He and Fellaini were winning most of the "battles" though.
Only in the 2nd half once Musa came on and started picking the ball up deep did we struggle. Carrick just didn't have the pace to catch him. When they scored their goal Carrick had a chance to take him down but he chose not too, he needs to be a little nastier for me in that aspect.
Only in the 2nd half once Musa came on and started picking the ball up deep did we struggle. Carrick just didn't have the pace to catch him. When they scored their goal Carrick had a chance to take him down but he chose not too, he needs to be a little nastier for me in that aspect.
I never said he was poorer than Schneiderlin, only Schweinsteiger. Schneiderlin was equally poor as Carrick last season but at least he has time on his side.
As for why, I've already told you.
You are saying that. I am not. As I've only seen Bailey play about 3 times in pre season. The midfielders however I've seen plenty. And for me every attributes of Carrick is average at best.
There is no such attribute as control and stability. You control the midfield by your passing and movement. You stabilise it by tackling and marking. None of which Michael Carrick has shown in the past 12 months.
It seems you are stuck with memories of him from Alex Ferguson's time. The current Carrick constantly gets bypassed in midfield and has lost most of his passing ability. Yesterday was a great example. What attribute of his is the best in the team?
I was talking about long passes as being the deepest midfielder that's the type of passes he should play. But he doesn't. Rooney is clearly much better at it compared to Carrick.
Bastian was class in a few first games, then it looked to me like he got disinterested. Mix that with injuries and you get last season. I can understand why Jose wants him gone. At his best he was comfortably level or two above Carrick (at his best) but it doesn't matter much in this case.
Carrick is applauded every time he has a good game against teams sitting deep because he has all the time on the world to operate in the middle and takes good positions. I'm okay with that, and mostly agree he had a good game. But once we face decent opponent his incisive passing is gone and to be honest I don't see much difference between him and Schneiderlin (who looks very weak offensively and on the ball).
That's such a one dimensional way of looking at football. Not everything can be measured with FIFA16 style attributes. What about choice and weight of pass? What about reading of the game and interceptions? Composure on the ball? I'd love to hear your breakdown of Pirlo.
The mobility and physicality might not be there are other attributes are which allows him to provide stability to the side and dictate play.
No. I was using his time under SAF to point out that exact same charges have been levelled at Carrick for about 7 years. Yet he was the main stay of SAF's teams and continued to be post SAF.
His ability to control the midfield, offer stability to the defence and provide a platform to attack is better then either Schneiderlin or Schweinsteigar, but seeing as there's no way for EA to measure that, I guess it don't count.
I consider him to have the better and more incisive passing than BFS and he has a far better reading of the game than Schneiderlin, who I also don't think will ever be able to dictate play from deep.
We've seen Carrick hit those long passes so it's not like he can't do it.
Besides Rooney's 40 yard lofted passes to a free Valencia on the wing, is not a great passing. Playing your way out trouble, picking and weighting the right 10-20 yard forward pass to break from a defensive situation, or using a series of short passes and feints to get the opposition moving around is far more impressive. All things Carrick does regularly if you care to look out for it.
Where have you been for the last year? This isn't a new notion based off yesterday's performance, he's been a liability for a while and there's been plenty of voices that have expressed that opinion over the last season or so.
I'm really tired of having this crap wheeled out whenever a player isn't good enough to play for the club any more, leave your sentiment at home. Talent > Experience every time, we've got plenty of players who know how to win in our squad who are still good enough to play for the team, I'd prefer to give the squad position and wage to someone who can still do it at the highest level.
@MannyB when was the last time he dictated play for the team against opposition of any worth?
I do think he is too old to continue dominating teams. I really would love to see Pereira take over the mantle.
It's funny that you would bring up fifa. Here is how Ajax rate it's young players:
As you can see, everything is broken down to the smallest of details. And there is no attribute such as "control" or "stability". Because such terms are incredibly vague and doesn't tell you anything about a player. With the right attributes, a player should be able to control the game from any position. Like the way Daley Blind is able to dictate the speed of the game whether he is playing in midfield, or defence, or full back. Carrick can't because his passing and movement are way too predictable and inconsistent.
Imo rating a player fifa style is a lot more accurate than simply saying "he controls the midfield" or "he stabilise the defence".
He has not shown any passing skills in 12 months so I don't agree with you. Schweinsteiger while isn't that great a passer himself, has got great movement and is able to bring the ball forward with it. As for his reading of the game, I can't say I know what goes on in his head. I can only judge him based on what he does on the pitch. And I am not impressed. That is not to say I rate Schneiderlin higher. Like I said at least he has time on his side.
Just because hes able to do these things 5 years ago doesn't mean he's still able to do it today.
Of course it is a great pass. Just because it's the only thing Rooney does well doesn't mean we shouldn't acknowledge it. The diagonal pass as a way to switch play and move the defence around is a tactic every single team use. It was a huge part of Alex Ferguson's football. We don't have anyone in the team who does it as well as Rooney currently.
As for the other things you say he does, I can only imagine you are seeing what you want to see.
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No you're right. We should play Schweinsteigar and Schneidelin. Bastian can collect the ball and pass it to Schneidelin and Schneidelin can defer all responsibility and pass it straight back. Do that for 60 minutes until Bastian inevitably gets subbed off with fatigue or gets injured. Whichever comes first, right...
Sarcasm aside, off the top of my head I was impressed with performance against Spurs in 14-15. We just got knocked out by Arsenal and we were being written off aginst Spurs, 4th place a concern. Carrick took charge of the game in the early stages, some pass and move with Daley Blind then fed a nice through ball to Fellaini to put us 1-0 inside 20 minutes then popped up with a goal of his own 5-10 minutes later.
More impressive in those 30 minutes then anything I've seen from Schweinsteigar or Schneiderlin in a United shirt. Combined.
Now I challenge you to find a better performance from either BFS or Morgan. I warn you though, a good performance from last season will be tough.
Are you WUMing? Can you not see Carrick is a significant upgrade in controlling the game over Schneiderlin? You shouldn't need an attribute with a number attached to it to see that. Just watch the games.
Have you only been watching football for 12 months? On top of that, how many other United players have impressed you in the last 12 months, outside of DDG and Martial? And Carrick doesn't drive forward with the ball because that's not his game.
OK...
Look I'm not in the business of getting people to change their views. I'm just telling you Carrick will play his part this season, like he has the last 10. So either Jose doesn't know what he is doing or the Carrick detractors don't know what they are talking about.
No you're right. We should play Schweinsteigar and Schneidelin. Bastian can collect the ball and pass it to Schneidelin and Schneidelin can defer all responsibility and pass it straight back. Do that for 60 minutes until Bastian inevitably gets subbed off with fatigue or gets injured. Whichever comes first, right...
Sarcasm aside, off the top of my head I was impressed with performance against Spurs in 14-15. We just got knocked out by Arsenal and we were being written off aginst Spurs, 4th place a concern. Carrick took charge of the game in the early stages, some pass and move with Daley Blind then fed a nice through ball to Fellaini to put us 1-0 inside 20 minutes then popped up with a goal of his own 5-10 minutes later.
More impressive in those 30 minutes then anything I've seen from Schweinsteigar or Schneiderlin in a United shirt. Combined.
Now I challenge you to find a better performance from either BFS or Morgan. I warn you though, a good performance from last season will be tough.
about.
need i say more?
.... I did say 15-16 was a write off.Anyway, your turn. Where o where are these mystical Schneiderlin and Schweinsteigar performances?
I would say Carrick is a better passer than Schneiderlin. But he lack the latter's mobility and tackling ability. Neither of them (from last season's showing) possesses the required level to be first choice for us. Atm Schweinsteiger is better than both.
No but like I said my memory is kind of shitty so I can't say I remember what a player is like 3 or 4 seasons ago.
The players that have impressed me are the 2 you have mentioned, Daley Blind, and Schweinsteiger. Bastian was injured for large part of the season but when he played he was our best midfielder by far imo. After that it's Chris Smalling. That's all.
Now if your point was that you can't judge a player because of our manager and the team's performance last season then again I disagree. Because if you can't judge players when the team is doing bad, then you should not judge them when their team is doing good either. Maybe they're playing well because their team is playing well. Should scouts only go out and watch players when their teams are winning? Of course not.
So what does he bring to the table? We know he doesn't drive forward. Not on the ball, not off the ball. But does he bring passing ability? Tackling ability? Imo no. At least he has not shown it for quite a while.
I'm sure he will. Imo it is because we did not bring in a replacement for him and the one #6 who is better than him is playing in the reserve. For whatever reason only Mourinho can answer. The same way only he can answer why Rooney is still first choice.
Mate, I've asked for the last time he controlled a game and your example was a season and a half ago. What does that tell you?
Anyway, your turn. Where o where are these mystical Schneiderlin and Schweinsteigar performances?
They bring a completely different game, I've already highlighted that we have Blind who can dictate the game from defense (Carrick spends half the game behind the centrebacks anyway). But you only have to go back to the first half of the semi final against france (ridiculous handball aside) to see how he could affect a game from the same positon as Carrick. Pogba will also control a game for us.
CARRICK HOPES TO SMELL MORE SUCCESS
Michael Carrick is hoping to be able to smell success again with Manchester United as the Reds aim to begin a Premier League title challenge at Bournemouth on Sunday.
The midfielder has welcomed Paul Pogba into the squad as the fourth major addition of Jose Mourinho's reign and admits the victory over Leicester City in last weekend's Community Shield has raised morale further in time for the big kick-off.
"Sunday has given us a good start and a positive feeling around the place to be confident going into the first games of the season and beyond," Carrick told MUTV.
"It's always exciting and always a feeling of what's going to happen looking forward, not just this week and next week but towards the end of the season when we're looking to be challenging for trophies; fighting on all fronts is what we need to be doing.
"We're focused on that end goal. We want to put ourselves in the position in the coming months to really challenge - getting that feeling back and smelling that success come Christmas time. You can't beat that feeling, that something special is around the corner, and we need to get to that point."
Carrick is pleased the world-record deal to sign Pogba has been finalised in time for the Frenchman to link up with the squad this week.
"A transfer fee is a transfer fee," he explained. "I don't think that matters too much really. I think it's more about getting the best players you can through the door and we've certainly done that this summer. All four players are going to be great for this club.
"Paul being the last one is massive news. It has gone on for a few weeks and I think he's as delighted as much as anyone that it's done now and he can focus on his football. I've said all along, since I've been here, the club needs the best players in the squad to push each other and challenge each other. Certainly, we've been given that this summer."
Watch exclusive interviews with Michael, Jose Mourinho and Marcus Rashford in Countdown to Kick-off on MUTV on Friday at 18:30 BST.
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...-smell-more-success-at-manchester-united.aspx
Michael Carrick is hoping to be able to smell success again with Manchester United as the Reds aim to begin a Premier League title challenge at Bournemouth on Sunday.
The midfielder has welcomed Paul Pogba into the squad as the fourth major addition of Jose Mourinho's reign and admits the victory over Leicester City in last weekend's Community Shield has raised morale further in time for the big kick-off.
"Sunday has given us a good start and a positive feeling around the place to be confident going into the first games of the season and beyond," Carrick told MUTV.
"It's always exciting and always a feeling of what's going to happen looking forward, not just this week and next week but towards the end of the season when we're looking to be challenging for trophies; fighting on all fronts is what we need to be doing.
"We're focused on that end goal. We want to put ourselves in the position in the coming months to really challenge - getting that feeling back and smelling that success come Christmas time. You can't beat that feeling, that something special is around the corner, and we need to get to that point."
Carrick is pleased the world-record deal to sign Pogba has been finalised in time for the Frenchman to link up with the squad this week.
"A transfer fee is a transfer fee," he explained. "I don't think that matters too much really. I think it's more about getting the best players you can through the door and we've certainly done that this summer. All four players are going to be great for this club.
"Paul being the last one is massive news. It has gone on for a few weeks and I think he's as delighted as much as anyone that it's done now and he can focus on his football. I've said all along, since I've been here, the club needs the best players in the squad to push each other and challenge each other. Certainly, we've been given that this summer."
Watch exclusive interviews with Michael, Jose Mourinho and Marcus Rashford in Countdown to Kick-off on MUTV on Friday at 18:30 BST.
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...-smell-more-success-at-manchester-united.aspx
Given the choice of a 35 year old Carrick and Schneiderlin for the DM role i´d still prefer the former. Schneiderlin is way stronger and combative in midfield but has nothing on Carrick when it comes to positioning and tracking runners. For me Carrick gives us way more stability in that role than any other option we have (not a great option to be honest... but still the best from our lot). Schneiderlin always seems to have these little losses of concentration in games where he looses his man during play or at set-pieces, or gives away stupid fouls just around the box. He isn´t reliable for me at all in that position. He reminds me a bit of Fletcher in this aspect. Good/Very good when they can just be a nuisance for the opponent in midfield with their energy and tackling, but when you give them a more disciplined role they will struggle. We really could have done with a new player for the DM role, but i guess Mourinho didn´t want too much of a shake-up for our squad (4 new first team players is a lot to begin with).
Doesn't bode well for him if Fellaini is chosen over him in defensive midfield no less.
Don't think he has the legs to cover in midfield against a pressing side anymore.
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