[Devil may care]

We need to get him on so someone in our midfield can use the ball effectively.

 

[Adisa]

Just watched his hour long interview with John Dykes for the premier league.
He was emotional when discussing his England career. I thought he was going to cry and you could sense him begging Dykes to change the topic because he was struggling to hold back the emotion and sense of frustration.
He has 34 England caps in 14 years and only started 22 out of he 34.
He was philosophical about the situation. He says he kept telling himself that other than playing well for Man Utd(which he's largely done), there's nothing else he could have done. If he was impressing the greatest manager of all time, what else could he do?
The fact that the likes of Barry and Scott Parker have been ahead of him in the pecking order is an abomination. No disrespect to those players but they aren't fit to lace his boots.
This guy has played at the highest level for 12 years and has been an integral part of multiple title winning campaigns.
22 England starts spread across 14 years is a national disgrace.
I've not really cared about how he plays for England. But watching that interview and seeing how much it meant to him, upset me.

 

[dichinero]

Just watched his hour long interview with John Dykes for the premier league.
He was emotional when discussing his England career. I thought he was going to cry and you could sense him begging Dykes to change the topic because he was struggling to hold back the emotion and sense of frustration.
He has 34 England caps in 14 years and only started 22 out of he 34.
He was philosophical about the situation. He says he kept telling himself that other than playing well for Man Utd(which he's largely done), there's nothing else he could have done. If he was impressing the greatest manager of all time, what else could he do?
The fact that the likes of Barry and Scott Parker have been ahead of him in the pecking order is an abomination. No disrespect to those players but they aren't fit to lace his boots.
This guy has played at the highest level for 12 years and has been an integral part of multiple title winning campaigns.
22 England starts spread across 14 years is a national disgrace.
I've not really cared about how he plays for England. But watching that interview and seeing how much it meant to him, upset me.

On a personal note, he deserves better but as far as a united is concerned I'm happy for him. Can you imagine such a talent like him being stifled under Hodgson let alone under this new management?

 

[El Zoido]

Just watched his hour long interview with John Dykes for the premier league.
He was emotional when discussing his England career. I thought he was going to cry and you could sense him begging Dykes to change the topic because he was struggling to hold back the emotion and sense of frustration.
He has 34 England caps in 14 years and only started 22 out of he 34.
He was philosophical about the situation. He says he kept telling himself that other than playing well for Man Utd(which he's largely done), there's nothing else he could have done. If he was impressing the greatest manager of all time, what else could he do?
The fact that the likes of Barry and Scott Parker have been ahead of him in the pecking order is an abomination. No disrespect to those players but they aren't fit to lace his boots.
This guy has played at the highest level for 12 years and has been an integral part of multiple title winning campaigns.
22 England starts spread across 14 years is a national disgrace.
I've not really cared about how he plays for England. But watching that interview and seeing how much it meant to him, upset me.

Absolutely, but for me, he's not missed much by being away from the shit-show that has been the England national team for the past 15 years. Obviously he's not going to see it like that but there's virtually nothing worth remembering about England recently. You could wipe it from the record books and nothing would change. Its not like he's Welsh or Spanish and missed out on the greatest moments in the nations footballing history.

 

[Adisa]

On a personal note, he deserves better but as far as a united is concerned I'm happy for him. Can you imagine such a talent like him being stifled under Hodgson let alone under this new management?

I also have never cared whether he gets picked for England or not. But you could see how much it meant to him.

 

[Eriku]

Absolutely, but for me, he's not missed much by being away from the shit-show that has been the England national team for the past 15 years. Obviously he's not going to see it like that but there's virtually nothing worth remembering about England recently. You could wipe it from the record books and nothing would change. Its not like he's Welsh or Spanish and missed out on the greatest moments in the nations footballing history.

The point is that England may well have fared better if they had someone competent at dictating play in CM. Not saying we'd have seen England win WC or EC, but their championship showings would definitely have been better with him in midfield.

 

[Adisa]

Danny Welbeck has more caps for England than Carrick. When Dykes put that across to him, he just gave a wry smile. You could tel, it was paining him.

 

[AR87]

The point is that England may well have fared better if they had someone competent at dictating play in CM. Not saying we'd have seen England win WC or EC, but their championship showings would definitely have been better with him in midfield.

Would have made a difference in both Euro 2012 and WC 2014 imo. Those teams lacked anybody that could both competently screen the defense and spread the play effectively from deep.

 

[Adisa]

Would have made a difference in both Euro 2012 and WC 2014 imo. Those teams lacked anybody that could both competently screen the defense and spread the play effectively from deep.

The point is that Carrick won't see it that way. He won't say he hasn't missed much because England have been shite. He wants to play as much as possible for his country. Good or bad.

 

[AR87]

The point is that Carrick won't see it that way. He won't say he hasn't missed much because England have been shite. He wants to play as much as possible for his country. Good or bad.

I agree. I'm not English, but I imagine regardless of nationality the majority of players put high value on representing their national sides, especially in in international tournaments.

 

[Adisa]

For comparison, Jordan Henderson has 28 caps Welbeck has 35 both born 1990.
34 caps is ridiculous for someone who has been a top player for best part of 15 years.

 

[Kag]

Danny Welbeck has more caps for England than Carrick. When Dykes put that across to him, he just gave a wry smile. You could tel, it was paining him.

Welbeck, unlike Carrick, has taken his chances for the national team. Blaming other people for Carrick acting like a wet sock when the tough gets going isn't really fair.

Carrick had chances for England, he had 34 of them. But he never made that holding position his own. Hargreaves even managed it once upon a time. He never really forced the manager's hand by being one of the best midfielders in the league either. He did that once, in 12-13, and was duly rewarded for that with international starts. Again, they passed him by.

The only person to blame for Carrick's lack of international career is Carrick himself. He wasn't the English Busquets, he wasn't Pirlo, he wasn't Alonso and his situation wasn't like Scholes' either. He's a largely inferior version of all of them and that has been proven in big matches over an extended period of time. England hasn't really missed out.

 

[Adisa]

Welbeck, unlike Carrick, has taken his chances for the national team. Blaming other people for Carrick acting like a wet sock when the tough gets going isn't really fair.

Carrick had chances for England, he had 34 of them. But he never made that holding position his own. Hargreaves even managed it once upon a time. He never really forced the manager's hand by being one of the best midfielders in the league either. He did that once, in 12-13, and was duly rewarded for that with international starts. Again, they passed him by.

The only person to blame for Carrick's lack of international career is Carrick himself. He wasn't the English Busquets, he wasn't Pirlo, he wasn't Alonso and his situation wasn't like Scholes' either. He's a largely inferior version of all of them and that has been proven in big matches over an extended period of time. England hasn't really missed out.

He's hardly started any big matches for England. And it's not like the midfielders that played instead of him, played well in those big games.

 

[Pexbo]

Welbeck, unlike Carrick, has taken his chances for the national team. Blaming other people for Carrick acting like a wet sock when the tough gets going isn't really fair.

Carrick had chances for England, he had 34 of them. But he never made that holding position his own. Hargreaves even managed it once upon a time. He never really forced the manager's hand by being one of the best midfielders in the league either. He did that once, in 12-13, and was duly rewarded for that with international starts. Again, they passed him by.

The only person to blame for Carrick's lack of international career is Carrick himself. He wasn't the English Busquets, he wasn't Pirlo, he wasn't Alonso and his situation wasn't like Scholes' either. He's a largely inferior version of all of them and that has been proven in big matches over an extended period of time. England hasn't really missed out.

Thats bollocks to be perfectly honest. Carrick has never been a show stopper, never been blood and thunder and never grasped the lime light. To expect him to put in performances which grab attention from his limited starts over the last 12 years is completely unrealistic. Any manager with half a brain would have allowed him to quietly find his feet behind either Lampard or Gerrard and let him pull the strings like he did at United.

 

[Kag]

Thats bollocks to be perfectly honest. Carrick has never been a show stopper, never been blood and thunder and never grasped the lime light. To expect him to put in performances which grab attention from his limited starts over the last 12 years is completely unrealistic. Any manager with half a brain would have allowed him to quietly find his feet behind either Lampard or Gerrard and let him pull the strings like he did at United.

Being a show stopper isn't relevant. It's about performing regularly at the highest level. He never did that. He was regularly outperformed by Darren Fletcher in big matches at United, and bypassed by the opposition in many others. Meanwhile, the likes of Gerrard and Lampard were still performing excellently at their respective clubs. Perhaps he could have played behind them, it may have worked out well. But his form never made his lack of inclusion such a massive bone of contention.

 

[Pexbo]

Being a show stopper isn't relevant. It's about performing regularly at the highest level. He never did that. He was regularly outperformed by Darren Fletcher in big matches at United, and bypassed by the opposition in many others. Meanwhile, the likes of Gerrard and Lampard were still performing excellently at their respective clubs. Perhaps he could have played behind them, it may have worked out well. But his form never made his lack of inclusion such a massive bone of contention.

I'll finish this argument here. You've never rated him, no point going any further.

 

[Kag]

He's hardly started any big matches for England. And it's not like the midfielders that played instead of him, played well in those big games.

He did have chances. Not plenty, but enough to make a mark. He started against Macedonia and Croatia, two games in which we dropped points during our failure to qualify for Euro 2008. He also started against Montenegro a few years back, failing to control the game in a second half in which we were overrun and lucky not to lose. He also started a friendly against Spain and was outclassed by better opposition in that 2-0 defeat.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Carrick was seriously under-appreciated in his prime.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

He did have chances. Not plenty, but enough to make a mark. He started against Macedonia and Croatia, two games in which we dropped points during our failure to qualify for Euro 2008. He also started against Montenegro a few years back, failing to control the game in a second half in which we were overrun and lucky not to lose. He also started a friendly against Spain and was outclassed by better opposition in that 2-0 defeat.

I agree. He failed to impress pretty much every time he played for England.

 

[Kag]

I'll finish this argument here. You've never rated him, no point going any further.

So Fletcher wasn't our big match player in midfield before his illness? He was turning up from Stamford Bridge to the San Siro and playing like a demon.

I rate Carrick. I rate him for what he is; a good to very good player that was good enough to start for Manchester United and play 34 times for England, but a player that had limitations when pitted against the best. This isn't a new opinion either, it has been argued in depth throughout his time at United.

 

[AR87]

So Fletcher wasn't our big match player in midfield before his illness? He was turning up from Stamford Bridge to the San Siro and playing like a demon.

I rate Carrick. I rate him for what he is; a good to very good player that was good enough to start for Manchester United and play 34 times for England, but a player that had limitations when pitted against the best. This isn't a new opinion either, it has been argued in depth throughout his time at United.

Nonsense. Carrick was picked in every big match by Ferguson because he performed to a high standard.

 

[Kag]

Nonsense. Carrick was picked in every big match by Ferguson because he performed to a high standard.

After Fletcher was struck down with illness, Carrick was the best midfielder we had left. This was a position that the entire support base pinned down as needing a good shakeup.

Like I said, Carrick was a good player. Sometimes he was great. But he isn't some kind of victim either. He was regularly outperformed in big games by better, stronger midfielders. It isn't a crime, but it is what it is.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

If Carrick was spanish or Italian he would be viewed, every bit as good as Pirlo or Alonso. Hes always been underrated and its the whole mentality like that that has caused England to be a terrible national team.

 

[Kag]

If Carrick was spanish or Italian he would be viewed, every bit as good as Pirlo or Alonso. Hes always been underrated and its the whole mentality like that that has caused England to be a terrible national team.

Ay, it's this one makes me laugh all the time. It's simply bollocks.

The reason Carrick isn't rated as highly as both Alonso and Pirlo is because he isn't as good as them. That's all there is to it.

 

[acnumber9]

After Fletcher was struck down with illness, Carrick was the best midfielder we had left. This was a position that the entire support base pinned down as needing a good shakeup.

Like I said, Carrick was a good player. Sometimes he was great. But he isn't some kind of victim either. He was regularly outperformed in big games by better, stronger midfielders. It isn't a crime, but it is what it is.

He played every game prior to that too. In United's most successful period. He showed his class while regularly having to play midfield on his own. He was a much better player than Fletcher.

 

[Dec9003]

If Carrick was spanish or Italian he would be viewed, every bit as good as Pirlo or Alonso. Hes always been underrated and its the whole mentality like that that has caused England to be a terrible national team.

No he wouldn't because he's not a scratch on either of them, Carrick has been great for us but comparing him to Pirlo is madnes.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Ay, it's this one makes me laugh all the time. It's simply bollocks.

The reason Carrick isn't rated as highly as both Alonso and Pirlo is because he isn't as good as them. That's all there is to it.

Hes been a mainstay in one of the most successful periods of one of the biggest clubs in the world so its daft to say hes not a top top player.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

No he wouldn't because he's not a scratch on either of them, Carrick has been great for us but comparing him to Pirlo is madnes.

I stand by if Pirlo was english he wouldnt be as highly rated. Theres really not much pirlo can do that carrick cant.

 

[Dec9003]

I stand by if Pirlo was english he wouldnt be as highly rated. Theres really not much pirlo can do that carrick cant.

Other than take brilliant free kicks and having a miles better passing range. Whilst also being consistently better for years.

 

[acnumber9]

Other than take brilliant free kicks and having a miles better passing range. Whilst also being consistently better for years.

I'm intrigued how a 19 year old Utd fan would know anything about Andrea Pirlo's consistency.

 

[AR87]

He played every game prior to that too. In United's most successful period. He showed his class while regularly having to play midfield on his own. He was a much better player than Fletcher.

This. Carrick was one of the few players guaranteed to start every big game as well under Ferguson and definitely the only nailed on starter in midfield.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Other than take brilliant free kicks and having a miles better passing range. Whilst also being consistently better for years.

Carricks passing range is superb and while Pirlo probably edges him, carricks passing between the lines is better. Carrick has also done it in a more physical and faster paced league for a higher quality team than Pirlo. I love Pirlo but hes overrated because of his Italian style on and off the pitch.

 

[Dec9003]

I'm intrigued how a 19 year old Utd fan would know anything about Andrea Pirlo's consistency.

Because I grew up watching him?

 

[Kag]

He played every game prior to that too. In United's most successful period. He showed his class while regularly having to play midfield on his own. He was a much better player than Fletcher.

At his best I think Fletcher was a more effective player. He was struck down at the top of his game and we missed his intensity in midfield for a very long time. A case of what could have been.

 

[Kag]

Hes been a mainstay in one of the most successful periods of one of the biggest clubs in the world so its daft to say hes not a top top player.

He was never one of the best midfielders in Europe. He was sat down by the better ones.

We were hugely successful, but it wasn't our midfield that made us stand out.

 

[AR87]

At his best I think Fletcher was a more effective player. He was struck down at the top of his game and we missed his intensity in midfield for a very long time. A case of what could have been.

That's great but has nothing to do with Carrick playing every single big match regardless of whether or not Fletcher was healthy and at his top level. Considering Carrick was selected to start in every big match under Ferguson during a period in which we won the league 5 times in 7 years, won the CL and reached 2 more finals it's safe to assume his ability to perform in the biggest matches was just fine.

 

[Kag]

That's great but has nothing to do with Carrick playing every single big match regardless of whether or not Fletcher was healthy and at his top level. Considering Carrick was selected to start in every big match under Ferguson during a period in which we won the league 5 times in 7 years, won the CL and reached 2 more finals it's safe to assume his ability to perform in the biggest matches was just fine.

It isn't safe to assume that. Carrick was repeatedly bettered by superior midfielders, often in Europe. This was a constant source of frustration for lots of supporters at the time. Particularly between Rome 2009 and the CL quarter finals against Chelsea in 2011. Carrick (alongside Giggs) turned up over that two week period after an eighteen month slumber.

 

[AR87]

It isn't safe to assume that. Carrick was repeatedly bettered by superior midfielders, often in Europe. This was a constant source of frustration for lots of supporters at the time. Particularly between Rome 2009 and the CL quarter finals against Chelsea in 2011. Carrick (alongside Giggs) turned up over that two week period after an eighteen month slumber.

Which midfielders repeatedly bettered Carrick in Europe? He was a starting CM during our most successful run in Europe. Getting dominated by one of the all-time great midfields in two finals against Barcelona isn't a sign that he wasn't a top level CM.

 

[WhoDaGOAT]

Pirlo was actually underrated at one point.

Before Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets formed, Pirlo, Gattuso and Kaká were the original midfield trio of modern football.

Pirlo was a key player for Italy at The 2006 World Cup and went through a renaissance period for club and country after leaving Milan, where he suffered a bad period due to injuries and a lack of appreciation by the club.

He's second only to Xavi in terms of his position.

Carrick is not a million miles off Alonso. He's a very good player in his own right, or at least has been for the past 12 years or so. His end is near though.

 

[Giant Midget]

He was never one of the best midfielders in Europe. He was sat down by the better ones.

We were hugely successful, but it wasn't our midfield that made us stand out.

I think the fact that Carrick was our only great midfielder at the time has quite a lot to do with that. The only good player he was paired with was Fletcher, and even he only had about a season of being at the top.

Hargreaves (sick note), Anderson (sick note + thoroughly average), Scholes (old, immobile and retired), Cleverley (thoroughly average), Giggs (not a CM) aren't the kind of players a world class midfield is built around.