Michael Oliver

[acnumber9]

so because one ref/var combo wrongly didn't give a penalty it should never be given?

You asked for an example and were given one.

 

[Jimmy Skitz]

You asked for an example and were given one.

ok and my question still stands... I was actually talking about the Onana Wolves one when I was asking for more like it but that's just crossed wires. If we as fans bitch and moan when a clear penalty isn't given you can't complain it is in a later game as the refs were likely told by their bosses they should be giving that.

I think some of you need a pallet cleanser, watch some EFL refs, you'll realise how good the prem lot are

 

[arnie_ni]

you'd have to point them out to me from this season as I honestly can't remember another like that one. I'm sorry but you really cannot complain about this penalty being given, your idiot defender has his arm wrapped around Rodri and in the same incident Maguire is wrestling Stones and practically has him in a head lock. They are both penalties, more should be given but don't cry when one so obvious is.

Seems like a convenient excuse to cover for how poor you are doing.

Just be glad you never have to be officiated by Keith Stroud, now he is a truly diabolical ref

No one is necessarily arguing about this penalty in isolation. My first post even said its likely a penalty. We are arguing that its never given in other games (not just our own).

How often do you see them given? You can't give it in one game and not other

 

[Jimmy Skitz]

No one is necessarily arguing about this penalty in isolation. My first post even said its likely a penalty. We are arguing that its never given in other games (not just our own).

How often do you see them given? You can't give it in one game and not other

yeah its annoying I agree

 

[acnumber9]

ok and my question still stands... I was actually talking about the Onana Wolves one when I was asking for more like it but that's just crossed wires. If we as fans bitch and moan when a clear penalty isn't given you can't complain it is in a later game as the refs were likely told by their bosses they should be giving that.

I think some of you need a pallet cleanser, watch some EFL refs, you'll realise how good the prem lot are

The problem comes when you are continually on the wrong end of the inconsistencies. Any time a decision goes in United’s favour it’s non stop whining in the media and it has a knock on effect. As evidenced by you still referencing one game at the start of the season. That was cancelled out in our second game.

Refs know if they give a decision that benefits United they run the risk of getting suspended.

 

[Jeppers7]

ok and my question still stands... I was actually talking about the Onana Wolves one when I was asking for more like it but that's just crossed wires. If we as fans bitch and moan when a clear penalty isn't given you can't complain it is in a later game as the refs were likely told by their bosses they should be giving that.

I think some of you need a pallet cleanser, watch some EFL refs, you'll realise how good the prem lot are

There was one in the Chelsea Arsenal game just last week. The same Wolves team had an identical situation vs Leeds last season not given….and guess what. NO FUSS WAS MADE OF EITHER. Same as these situations in the box are never given. The ref didn’t give it. Now VAR only ever comes in when it’s a clear and obvious error. The bar is high for intervention. Obviously the slight arm around the chest of Hojlund was far more clear and obvious than the full in Rugby tackle he received at Arsenal.

So we’ve had one decision go in our favour that never get given and similar examples can be found. In fact I can’t think of one that has been given. Yet cause you heard about it for a week in the news we shouldn’t be arsed that we get fecked over every week with decisions that never get given also…but now do against us.

 

[fallengt]

Should start calling him Oiliver from now on.
Same guy who refused to send off Kovacic twice in the same match because apparently it's a "would kill the game" moment.

 

[noodlehair]

Problem with the penalty today is he can't really win. If he ignores that he'll be getting asked why after. If he gives it its soft.

The ball is going right where the two players would have been so I think he's actually just about right.

What annoys me more is if the City player doesn't do the dramatic dive the ref ignores it. They focus more on the over reaction than the infringement.

 

[Anustart89]

ok and my question still stands... I was actually talking about the Onana Wolves one when I was asking for more like it but that's just crossed wires. If we as fans bitch and moan when a clear penalty isn't given you can't complain it is in a later game as the refs were likely told by their bosses they should be giving that.

I think some of you need a pallet cleanser, watch some EFL refs, you'll realise how good the prem lot are

Search for these then if you want examples of goalkeepers challenging players (examples of incidents that didn't warrant fouls without weeks-long media frenzies forcing referee and VAR demotions)

José Sa vs Leeds last season
Verbruggen vs Soucek this season
Robert Sanchez vs Jesus this season

Three players in danger of being concussed (I think Soucek got a concussion actually), yet Onana's one is the one where the outrage is so huge that not only the VAR, who failed to intervene, gets demoted but also the ref on the pitch who didn't see the incident.

 

[Redguern]

Normally CBA to post about stuff like this but seriously how does VAR review this and not the potential foul on Hojlund when he's through shortly after - surely if the ref is behind the play and doesn't see the way he was pulled back then VAR can review the same way they did for Rodri - as has been said, it's the lack of consistency during a game that's baffling

 

[Anustart89]

Normally CBA to post about stuff like this but seriously how does VAR review this and not the potential foul on Hojlund when he's through shortly after - surely if the ref is behind the play and doesn't see the way he was pulled back then VAR can review the same way they did for Rodri - as has been said, it's the lack of consistency during a game that's baffling

Because the VAR is free to pick and choose when to get involved and when not to get involved which simply introduces another level of subjectivity and potential bias.

It's the same as when we see multiple studs-up challenges not being penalised with yellow cards (or even fouls in some cases) not being considered "clear and obvious errors", yet somehow yellow cards for Casemiro (and Malo Gusto this season for Chelsea) have prompted VAR interventions because yellow cards were horrible decisions apparently.

We always get fecked over when Oliver refs us. Even more importantly though, his connection to the UAE combined with decisions like inexplicably not sending Kovacic off for the UAE-owned team and his decision to jump in today and recommend a penalty for an incident that is seen ten times every weekend (with a penalty never being awarded) clearly is the type of integrity-threatening decision-making that needs to be scrutinised, like Liverpool asked for after the Diaz offside.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

There's no way a ref who is on the payroll of UAE and is a match going Geordie that attended the league cup final earlier this year should be allowed to officiate PL matches. It's 100% a conflict of interest and it's going to cause a complete shit storm when everyone catches on.

I had no idea he was a die hard Newcastle fan until last year. It explains a fecking lot.

 

[BarryWinks]

Cnut

 

[Oranges038]

Should start calling him Oiliver from now on.
Same guy who refused to send off Kovacic twice in the same match because apparently it's a "would kill the game" moment.

It's a kill my chances of a big pay day in the desert moment. If the Glazers were paying a referee to go to America to ref games and he came back and gave Utd several decisions like that. There'd be no shortage of complaining.

Questions need to asked about his integrity and in light of his recent decisions in favour of City. I think he should be sacked purely because of the conflict of interest he's allowed himself to get involved in.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Problem with the penalty today is he can't really win. If he ignores that he'll be getting asked why after. If he gives it its soft.

The ball is going right where the two players would have been so I think he's actually just about right.

What annoys me more is if the City player doesn't do the dramatic dive the ref ignores it. They focus more on the over reaction than the infringement.

I think you should look at it again. The ball is clearly going quite a bit over where Rodri would have be able to make his run to.

 

[SER19]

It seems impossible, that by accident, the same man could allow the City goal v Fulham, Not send off Kovacic, and award that penalty yesterday. It is obscene that he is a paid referee in UAE and 100% undermines the integrity of the sport.

He's a sad little man who had speed stripes cut in his hair and was almost certainly bullied at school. A weird troll who must have been tormented by Ferguson's United. His bank accounts need to be looked into

 

[noodlehair]

I think you should look at it again. The ball is clearly going quite a bit over where Rodri would have be able to make his run to.

Its going to where he's running to. You can argue it is too high for him to reach but the issue is it draws attention to the foul, and then the official is being asked to see Hojlund pulling Rodri down and choose to deliberately ignore it.

There's plenty to pick at with our officials but I'm not sure I'd even have that one high on the list of garbage decisions in our own games, never mind anyone else's. I think its one where if it gets given its a bit unlucky, but you only really have yourselves to blame as the defending team.

There's decisions every week where the officials just seem to completely invent something that never happened, so pretend something that clearly did happen didn't, and this one doesn't come under either of those categories. It was soft but there was a foul there so its running the risk of how the official interprets it.

 

[Shane88]

No-one will convince me he isn't crooked in favour of City. They're paying the guy by proxy with his reffing trip to the UAE. He is going to be very careful not to upset them.

 

[#W203_Red]

If it’s given in the game, I’m ok with the decision. It’s a foul but to everyone’s point it’s a foul that happens all the time and in 99% of occasions it doesn’t get given…

The fact it wasn’t given but then reviewed makes it worse and that’s where you question the integrity of the decision making…

It’s funny without knowing what the penalty was for and you watch the clip I can see at least 3 or 4 “fouls” from both teams so which one takes precedent over the other… the clear and obvious block on Maguire being one of those fouls that don’t get given but are fouls.

As of yesterday wasn’t going to be hard enough, to be penalised for that and going behind in such a hard game was a kick in the Travellers.

I don’t think now that it’s just sentiment from Utd fans that we get the rough-end of decisions… there are examples every game now which is not acceptable.

The points raised about Michael Oliver and a conflict of interest are legitimate. Shouldn’t be being paid to ref during the premier league season funded by the owners of a participating club. If there was an independent regulator involved it would be called out without question.

 

[acnumber9]

The biggest issue clearly isn’t whether it’s a foul or not. It’s whether it gets near the ridiculously ever changing bar for clear and obvious error. Is it that much of a foul that it should be highlighted while other errors aren’t considered big enough? Nowhere near.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Its going to where he's running to. You can argue it is too high for him to reach but the issue is it draws attention to the foul, and then the official is being asked to see Hojlund pulling Rodri down and choose to deliberately ignore it.

There's plenty to pick at with our officials but I'm not sure I'd even have that one high on the list of garbage decisions in our own games, never mind anyone else's. I think its one where if it gets given its a bit unlucky, but you only really have yourselves to blame as the defending team.

There's decisions every week where the officials just seem to completely invent something that never happened, so pretend something that clearly did happen didn't, and this one doesn't come under either of those categories. It was soft but there was a foul there so its running the risk of how the official interprets it.

Seriously take a look at it again and follow the path of the ball + the players. I've watched it 5 times now and there's no way he's reaching where the ball is landing. When that's not the case, then you can't argue it's a clear and obvious error, so imo it's a clear mistake from VAR.

It's super problematic that Oliver apparently also has reffed in UAE. I wouldnt put it past City to have paid for decisions like this to go in their way. 116 charges makes this not far fetched.

So tired and bored of City ruining the game.

 

[Oranges038]

If it’s given in the game, I’m ok with the decision. It’s a foul but to everyone’s point it’s a foul that happens all the time and in 99% of occasions it doesn’t get given…

The fact it wasn’t given but then reviewed makes it worse and that’s where you question the integrity of the decision making…

It’s funny without knowing what the penalty was for and you watch the clip I can see at least 3 or 4 “fouls” from both teams so which one takes precedent over the other… the clear and obvious block on Maguire being one of those fouls that don’t get given but are fouls.

As of yesterday wasn’t going to be hard enough, to be penalised for that and going behind in such a hard game was a kick in the Travellers.

I don’t think now that it’s just sentiment from Utd fans that we get the rough-end of decisions… there are examples every game now which is not acceptable.

The points raised about Michael Oliver and a conflict of interest are legitimate. Shouldn’t be being paid to ref during the premier league season funded by the owners of a participating club. If there was an independent regulator involved it would be called out without question.

Do what they do in rugby and punish the first foul? But, here there's at least 4/5 happening all at once, so they're either all fouls or none are.

McT has hands on Dias
Maguire has his arm around Stones
Stones holds/block Maguire
Gvardiol is grabbing/pushing Rashford back
Hojlund wraps an arm around Rodri

Let's see how many similar penalties get given between now and the end of the season.

 

[noodlehair]

Seriously take a look at it again and follow the path of the ball + the players. I've watched it 5 times now and there's no way he's reaching where the ball is landing. When that's not the case, then you can't argue it's a clear and obvious error, so imo it's a clear mistake from VAR.

It's super problematic that Oliver apparently also has reffed in UAE. I wouldnt put it past City to have paid for decisions like this to go in their way. 116 charges makes this not far fetched.

So tired and bored of City ruining the game.

You can argue its a clear and obvious error because there is no real definition of what clear and obvious is, and it was a foul, so it falls straight into a grey area where different people will have different opinions. The ball goes into the middle and that's where Rodri is. As soon as you see the first replay its staring you in the face that he's impeded. If the ball goes to the edge of the box or the foul is on the far side of the area its much more likely to get ignored, but the only way it definitely gets ignored is if there is no foul in the first place. You can also argue there isn't much in it and I don't think there was, but again that is interpretive.

I don't get the point in moaning when what you're essentially trying to argue is that the official should have just ignored what happened or interpreted it the same as you. They can choose to interpret it as not serious enough to punish but as soon as there is an offence by the defending team they are effectively leaving the situation up to the officials instead of up to themselves, so for me the onus then shifts onto the defending team to do better and not put themselves in that predicament.

I'll give it the benefit of the doubt to call it a mistake since it was very soft, but tbh if we got to a point where these were the worst kind of errors premier league officials were making, we'd be laughing.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Classic Oliver. Sees foul as and when it pleases him.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Classic Oliver. Sees foul as and when it pleases him.

I know what pleases him!

 

[Alex99]

It couldn't be more obvious that we ruined his childhood in the 90s and he's hated us ever since.

How he's ever been allowed to officiate our matches is ridiculous.

 

[Anustart89]

Its going to where he's running to. You can argue it is too high for him to reach but the issue is it draws attention to the foul, and then the official is being asked to see Hojlund pulling Rodri down and choose to deliberately ignore it.

There's plenty to pick at with our officials but I'm not sure I'd even have that one high on the list of garbage decisions in our own games, never mind anyone else's. I think its one where if it gets given its a bit unlucky, but you only really have yourselves to blame as the defending team.

There's decisions every week where the officials just seem to completely invent something that never happened, so pretend something that clearly did happen didn't, and this one doesn't come under either of those categories. It was soft but there was a foul there so its running the risk of how the official interprets it.

If that happens down the other end, do you think Michael Oliver, Newcastle fan who referees in the UAE in his spare time, who ignored the Romero penalty incident for us with a perfect view and failed to send Kovacic off against Arsenal, intervenes and gives a penalty to United against City?

The fact that the answer to this question isn’t an unequivocal yes, and quite probably is a no if you’re honest about it, should tell you all about Michael Oliver’s fitness to keep refereeing games in the Premier League.

But the PL is so full of integrity and it’s just those pesky southern Europeans who are bribeable like that Negreira fella, that would never happen over in good old Britain.

Referees clearly use the laws of the game to defend not giving anything that they can get away with to us, and give everything they can get away with against us, because by doing that they get the media off their backs. Compare Onana’s foul on that Wolves fella with what Robert Sanchez did to Gabriel Jesus and ask yourself whether it’s reasonable that out of those two incidents, Onana’s is the one which is worthy of a weeks-long media campaign and demoting not just the VAR but also the on-field ref while Sanchez smashing Jesus in the face gets a few post-match comments and that’s about it.

Now take those media narratives and add a bit of “referee is employed by one club’s owners” and you get a situation where we get calls like this cherry-picked to decide games in a certain team’s favour. Situations like these are never given, except for City or against us. Situations like Onana’s are never given, but when they don’t get given against us it’s a major issue but never when other keepers get away with it.

I’m clearly rambling now but the club needs to compile all the decisions against us, compared with similar situations getting called for other teams, and ask how it is possible to have all these decisions consistently go against you. I mean, for it to be completely random and by chance you’d have to be looking at microscopic chances with the amount of decisions where the refs have flipped a coin and it’s always landed on the call that doesn’t benefit us. All because of one call in the beginning of the season where a call that never gets called didn’t get called against us.

 

[Samid]

cnut has zero control of a big game shock horror.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I just saw the scoreline on the internet and thought in my mind that the ref must be Oliver, because it looks like a right mess.

 

[Fr. Todd Unctious]

Awful awful ref even allowing for the conflicts of interest

 

[Idxomer]

I don't like him but I wouldn't blame him for this game.

 

[Samid]

I just saw the scoreline on the internet and thought in my mind that the ref must be Oliver, because it looks like a right mess.

Scoreline doesn't even tell half the story. He's 3 meters from every action and gets more or less every key decision wrong.

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

Sees the dive in full view but no yellow?

 

[Oranges038]

Sees the dive in full view but no yellow?

Sees it + a VAR review and still no yellow.

It when you see that, you think what's the fecking point of it, if you can't use it to book a diving cnut like that.

 

[Shane88]

Sees the dive in full view but no yellow?

It feels like big name players don't get yellows for diving. They only give them to the lesser lights of the league.

 

[11101]

Sees it + a VAR review and still no yellow.

It when you see that, you think what's the fecking point of it, if you can't use it to book a diving cnut like that.

You can't give a yellow with VAR? Red or nothing isn't it.

It's no surprise he's in charge when a game descends into madness like this is.

 

[Bobski]

Poor lad will have PTSD after that half.

 

[Oranges038]

You can't give a yellow with VAR? Red or nothing isn't it.

It's no surprise he's in charge when a game descends into madness like this is.

It's a stupid rule.

He should be pulled back and booked for that. Otherwise, why not chance a dive? The ref prob won't book you because he'll want a VAR review if he's not sure, so even if you don't get a pen. It's still worth a shot.

 

[Wilt]

Stirling dive unpunished ….in which case should be a pen

 

[Cpt Negative]

You can't give a yellow with VAR? Red or nothing isn't it.

It's no surprise he's in charge when a game descends into madness like this is.

Luke Shaw got a yellow against Burnley after a counter attack by United would have led to a last man red card. Brought it all the way back to a tackle just outside his own area

Hasn’t happened since…