Gaming Microsoft Xbox One

[RyanGoggs]

The new codename for Microsofts new console has been dubbed "Durango". Admittedly its a pretty poor name but I'm sure will not be the name of the final product. My real question is which direction will Microsoft take with this new console.

It's getting to the point now where increasing raw power of a console is going to produce diminishing returns. Are we now at a stage where better graphics are not enough to wow a consumer into buying a console? The success of the Wii and DS seems to indicate that consumers like innovative technology even if its at the expense of better graphics.

Would a consumer really want to pay for a console that only really offers better graphics, or will Microsoft follow Nintendo and produce a console with a USP?

What does everyone expect from the next gen consoles?

 

[WeasteDevil]

The success of the Wii and DS seems to indicate that consumers like innovative technology even if its at the expense of better graphics.

I'm not having this, PS3 and XB360 when all is said and done will sell more units combined than the PS2 did. Wii did something else and thus expanded the market to people that would never have owned a games console before.

If it were the case that the Wii sold by the bucketful and the XB360 and PS3 together did a lot less than they have, you might have a point. However, since the release of Xb360, PS2 has sold around 55m units. What does that tell you?

What do we have this generation?

Wii - 95m units
XB360 - 65m units
PS3 - 65m units
PS2 - 55m units

I'd have to check the figures, but it's something in that ballpark.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

How far away are we from a situation where all you need is a TV hooked up to the internet and all the processing is done in some remote location, which just sends back the Hi-Def video feed of the game to your TV?

 

[Redlambs]

How far away are we from a situation where all you need is a TV hooked up to the internet and all the processing is done in some remote location, which just sends back the Hi-Def video feed of the game to your TV?

It's here already.

 

[RyanGoggs]

I'm not having this, PS3 and XB360 when all is said and done will sell more units combined than the PS2 did. Wii did something else and thus expanded the market to people that would never have owned a games console before.

If it were the case that the Wii sold by the bucketful and the XB360 and PS3 together did a lot less than they have, you might have a point. However, since the release of Xb360, PS2 has sold around 55m units. What does that tell you?

What do we have this generation?

Wii - 95m units
XB360 - 65m units
PS3 - 65m units
PS2 - 55m units

I'd have to check the figures, but it's something in that ballpark.

I meant that consumers will buy innovative products and are not all hung up on graphics. Of course PS3 and Xbox sold well but so did the Wii, also DS wiped the floor with the PSP. Would consumers really want to pay a premium price for a cobsole that does the same with slightly prettier graphics?

 

[vanthaman]

Would consumers really want to pay a premium price for a cobsole that does the same with slightly prettier graphics?

Of course. If you had the choice between buying an Xbox 360 which didnt have HD graphics and an Xbox 360 that did but cost £100 more i know which one id rather invest in

 

[mariachi-19]

Rumor is that Microsoft are heading down a wii style route in using a slightly underpowered maxed out console with a strong focus on Kinect and building on the live platform.

Problem is for Microsoft, Sony can still use the playstation to focus on gaming because their tv's already have the internet capabilities built in 'skype, web browsing, movie hiring etc' So unless Microsoft start manufacturing televisions or use an existing brand to utilize their live system, they have to build the "family hub" off their console.

 

[Pexbo]

How far away are we from a situation where all you need is a TV hooked up to the internet and all the processing is done in some remote location, which just sends back the Hi-Def video feed of the game to your TV?

I can't see it happening.

One station running 1000 devices would need a huge whack of technology, it makes more sense for 1000 devices to be in 1000 homes surely?

 

[RyanGoggs]

Of course. If you had the choice between buying an Xbox 360 which didnt have HD graphics and an Xbox 360 that did but cost £100 more i know which one id rather invest in

Can they really push the graphics much further?

Xbox to xbox 360 was a big leap into HD gaming

Similarly there was a big difference from Nes to Snes to N64 etc.

There have already been rumours of the jump in graphical power not being so great this generation. Unless the 720 trounces Wii U for power will it be worth buying? CPU numbers, Ram etc means nothing if its not properly utilised. Are developers even fully utilising todays tech?

 

[WeasteDevil]

It's here already.

In a fashion.

 

[Redlambs]

How far away are we from a situation where all you need is a TV hooked up to the internet and all the processing is done in some remote location, which just sends back the Hi-Def video feed of the game to your TV?

It's here already.

I can't see it happening.

One station running 1000 devices would need a huge whack of technology, it makes more sense for 1000 devices to be in 1000 homes surely?

Google onlive. It's just the start.

 

[Redlambs]

In a fashion.

Yep, in some state or other

I'm still yet to try it for myself.

 

[Devil_forever]

I can't see it happening.

One station running 1000 devices would need a huge whack of technology, it makes more sense for 1000 devices to be in 1000 homes surely?

It's already been done. It's called On Live and for something that's still in its infancy, it works quite well.

I agree with marchi that the Xbox will have kinect 2.0 built in. This will eat up a lot of microsoft's budget, so I'm no expecting a hugely power jump by any means. With Sony's current financial problems and 3rd parties' reluctance to put in any extra effort into the ps3 counterparts of the 360 games this generation, I can't see Sony releasing a powerhouse of a console next gen either.

I can see both companies wanting their consoles to become media hubs even more so next gen. Interesting that Nintendo have announced an app store for the wii u. Shows you the general direction of console gaming.

 

[Redlambs]

Well if the Wii U controller is as good as being made out, it's basically combining two of the most succesful products of recent years: the iPad and a Wii.

That coupled with HD graphics is going to shift like hotcakes, it's no wonder if M$ copy it adding to it with the Kinect, they'll do very well too. The most interesting thing is what Sony will do in the face of that sort of competition.

They won't get away with taking a Wii-U controller and sticking a ping pong ball on it this time

 

[WeasteDevil]

The whole of computing is going back to where it started, with basic dumb terminals served by what back them was called a mini or a mainframe, and is now called "the cloud". Computing moved away from that model, because of the lack of network infrastructure and the fact that it was far more cost effective to have the processing local. Now the trend suggests going back to the dumb terminal. It's not just gaming, it's everything. However, gaming is highly sensitive to any problems. Streaming 1080p content at 60fps with reasonable control lag being sent back to the servers at the same time is quite beyond the network connections that will be available to the majority of people for quite some time, and that's not even mentioning things such as bandwidth throttling or data limits that many ISPs impose on their customers.

Try doing a remote windows desktop with your mate and see how responsive it is compared to your local desktop.

 

[WeasteDevil]

Well if the Wii U controller is as good as being made out, it's basically combining two of the most succesful products of recent years: the iPad and a Wii.

Are you seriously comparing the Wii U controller to an iPad?

 

[RyanGoggs]

It's already been done. It's called On Live and for something that's still in its infancy, it works quite well.

I agree with marchi that the Xbox will have kinect 2.0 built in. This will eat up a lot of microsoft's budget, so I'm no expecting a hugely power jump by any means. With Sony's current financial problems and 3rd parties' reluctance to put in any extra effort into the ps3 counterparts of the 360 games this generation, I can't see Sony releasing a powerhouse of a console next gen either.

I can see both companies wanting their consoles to become media hubs even more so next gen. Interesting that Nintendo have announced an app store for the wii u. Shows you the general direction of console gaming.

The two screen display will really be beneficial in terms of an app store as it allows developers so much freedom. Hopefully it will be well implemented. If Nintendo get the right 3rd party support and produce a console nearly on par with Sony and Microsoft I can see them doing well. Obviously they need to improve their online service too.

 

[Redlambs]

Are you seriously comparing the Wii U controller to an iPad?

Are you seriously still doing these "are you seriously" questions?


I'll humour you though, the answer is yes I am, though not in the terms you immediately always go to without realising what is actually being said.

 

[WeasteDevil]

The two screen display will really be beneficial in terms of an app store as it allows developers so much freedom. Hopefully it will be well implemented. If Nintendo get the right 3rd party support and produce a console nearly on par with Sony and Microsoft I can see them doing well. Obviously they need to improve their online service too.

How are Nintendo going to get a machine comparable to say a PS4 (with a Dual Shock in the box) at the same price point when they have to put part of the hardware budget towards the controller and the technology that allows the streaming of the video to it?

Wii U will be around as capable as XB360 and PS3 but able to do it all in 1080p and render a second screen for the controller. No more, that's my guess! Basically a PS3 with a weaker CPU in terms of FLOPS but 2xRSX and double the RAM and bandwidth. Or, an XB360 with 2xXCPU and 2xXGPU, again with memory size and bandwidth at least doubled.

 

[Devil_forever]

Well if the Wii U controller is as good as being made out, it's basically combining two of the most succesful products of recent years: the iPad and a Wii.

That coupled with HD graphics is going to shift like hotcakes, it's no wonder if M$ copy it adding to it with the Kinect, they'll do very well too. The most interesting thing is what Sony will do in the face of that sort of competition.

They won't get away with taking a Wii-U controller and sticking a ping pong ball on it this time

I rea something recently that Sony had applied for a patent for a more complex version of a controller very similar to the wii u pad. Even if both companies release similar controllers, the winner will be decided by the apps available on each app store and if Sony could strike a deal with android and get their apps on the PS4, they could blow Nintendo out of the water.

 

[Redlambs]

How are Nintendo going to get a machine comparable to say a PS4 (with a Dual Shock in the box) at the same price point when they have to put part of the hardware budget towards the controller and the technology that allows the streaming of the video to it?

Wii U will be around as capable as XB360 and PS3 but able to do it all in 1080p and render a second screen for the controller. No more, that's my guess! Basically a PS3 with a weaker CPU in terms of FLOPS but 2xRSX and double the RAM and bandwidth. Or, an XB360 with 2xXCPU and 2xXGPU, again with memory size and bandwidth at least doubled.

We once agreed that the current level of graphics at 1080p and 60fps would be ideal for the next gen. That's still pretty impressive if the controller is as sharp as they are saying too, but of course it depends on how developers use it (which will be most likely just inventories and the like for games).

 

[WeasteDevil]

Are you seriously still doing these "are you seriously" questions?


I'll humour you though, the answer is yes I am, though not in the terms you immediately always go to without realising what is actually being said.

Sony tried it with the PSP and the PS3 remember? They will try it again with VITA and PS3. Is it again a gimmick that only becomes successful because it's included out of the box?

 

[RyanGoggs]

How are Nintendo going to get a machine comparable to say a PS4 (with a Dual Shock in the box) at the same price point when they have to put part of the hardware budget towards the controller and the technology that allows the streaming of the video to it?

Wii U will be around as capable as XB360 and PS3 but able to do it all in 1080p and render a second screen for the controller. No more, that's my guess! Basically a PS3 with a weaker CPU in terms of FLOPS but 2xRSX and double the RAM and bandwidth. Or, an XB360 with 2xXCPU and 2xXGPU, again with memory size and bandwidth at least doubled.

Well there are rumours of a Microsoft dual screen system or maybe kinect in the box. Also Sony may follow suit and include Move or some other new tech so its possible they will be at a similar price point. Anyway there is more to gaming than uber powerful consoles, like new games that push the barriers rather than an endless number of sequels

 

[Redlambs]

Sony tried it with the PSP and the PS3 remember? They will try it again with VITA and PS3. Is it again a gimmick that only becomes successful because it's included out of the box?

You don't get what I mean at all.

Oh and as for the 'out of the box' thing, well yes actually. We had this discussion about the Wii and Wiimote, it's no different this time around.

 

[WeasteDevil]

We once agreed that the current level of graphics at 1080p and 60fps would be ideal for the next gen.

They are, but to what level? Super Stardust HD runs at 1080p and 60fps, Wipeout HD does it most of the time. COD runs at 600p60 on the consoles (and the 60 isn't locked, more like an average of 48). You know what developers are like, they'll want to add more and more eye candy to the whole thing, meaning that locked 1080p60 is unlikely to happen, neither on Wii U nor whatever the next two come up with.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

The whole of computing is going back to where it started, with basic dumb terminals served by what back them was called a mini or a mainframe, and is now called "the cloud". Computing moved away from that model, because of the lack of network infrastructure and the fact that it was far more cost effective to have the processing local. Now the trend suggests going back to the dumb terminal. It's not just gaming, it's everything. However, gaming is highly sensitive to any problems. Streaming 1080p content at 60fps with reasonable control lag being sent back to the servers at the same time is quite beyond the network connections that will be available to the majority of people for quite some time, and that's not even mentioning things such as bandwidth throttling or data limits that many ISPs impose on their customers.

Try doing a remote windows desktop with your mate and see how responsive it is compared to your local desktop.

Yeah, I see it going that way too, though I agree games are somewhat limited by network capacity for the foreseeable future.

I imagine software companies would be keen to go down this route as it should pretty much eliminate piracy, given that customers will have no access to the code.

 

[Redlambs]

Well there are rumours of a Microsoft dual screen system or maybe kinect in the box. Also Sony may follow suit and include Move or some other new tech so its possible they will be at a similar price point. Anyway there is more to gaming than uber powerful consoles, like new games that push the barriers rather than an endless number of sequels

Bar an odd few, you won't be getting that. Games have been going backwards (i.e dumbing down) for years now. What sells now are identikit games released every year.

The most recent point in case is the Darkness 2. Talk about move backwards, but they had to because the first one didn't sell well (despite being excellent). Make it a dumb shooter that the COD crowd have the brain power for, and hey presto!

 

[Redlambs]

They are, but to what level? Super Stardust HD runs at 1080p and 60fps, Wipeout HD does it most of the time. COD runs at 600p60 on the consoles (and the 60 isn't locked, more like an average of 48). You know what developers are like, they'll want to add more and more eye candy to the whole thing, meaning that locked 1080p60 is unlikely to happen, neither on Wii U nor whatever the next two come up with.

Spot on.

Then it comes back to what Nintendo do best (well second after the software), the controller.

 

[RyanGoggs]

Bar an odd few, you won't be getting that. Games have been going backwards (i.e dumbing down) for years now. What sells now are identikit games released every year.

The most recent point in case is the Darkness 2. Talk about move backwards, but they had to because the first one didn't sell well (despite being excellent). Make it a dumb shooter that the COD crowd have the brain power for, and hey presto!

Unfortunately the gaming industry does seem a lot more obsessed by money these days and innovation is lagging behind. One of the reasons I quite like Nintendo is at least they try to innovate rather than copy a tried and tested idea. Agree with your point on FPS, they are all pretty much the same. At least with a good app store it allows indy developers to try and create something new and refreshing.

Hopefully Nintendos duel screen will actually have some good uses rather than just as an alternative to the menus and HUD etc.

 

[Devil_forever]

Unfortunately the gaming industry does seem a lot more obsessed by money these days and innovation is lagging behind. One of the reasons I quite like Nintendo is at least they try to innovate rather than copy a tried and tested idea. Agree with your point on FPS, they are all pretty much the same. At least with a good app store it allows indy developers to try and create something new and refreshing.

Hopefully Nintendos duel screen will actually have some good uses rather than just as an alternative to the menus and HUD etc.

You've just opened a massive can of worms there.

 

[RyanGoggs]

You've just opened a massive can of worms there.

Really?

It's the truth though surely.

First console to produce games in 3d, you know 3d environments
Came up with the D Pad I believe
Motion controlled gaming
Looks like the dual screen thing may be copied too.

Sure there are many more examples

 

[Redlambs]

You've just opened a massive can of worms there.

Really?

It's the truth though surely.

First console to produce games in 3d, you know 3d environments
Came up with the D Pad I believe
Motion controlled gaming
Looks like the dual screen thing may be copied too.

Sure there are many more examples

Are you wearing your Weaste-proof pants today? Because you will need them pretty soon

 

[Devil_forever]

Really?

It's the truth though surely.

First console to produce games in 3d, you know 3d environments
Came up with the D Pad I believe
Motion controlled gaming
Looks like the dual screen thing may be copied too.

Sure there are many more examples

R.I.P you poor soul.

 

[RyanGoggs]

Are you wearing your Weaste-proof pants today? Because you will need them pretty soon

don't get me wrong I own an Xbox and Nintendo are far from faultless. They have shit online and not much third party support but they are definately the more innovative console manufacturer. Everyone else just follows along.

 

[Devil_forever]

don't get me wrong I own an Xbox and Nintendo are far from faultless. They have shit online and not much third party support but they are definately the more innovative console manufacturer. Everyone else just follows along.

Dear lord, please stop digging.

 

[Redlambs]

Dear lord, please stop digging.

He won't stop!

I think we with only one option left. We must delete the internet before Weaste returns. Bye bye porn!

 

[Hectic]

It's as if you don't value your life or sexual health.

 

[Devil_forever]

He won't stop!

I think we with only one option left. We must delete the internet before Weaste returns. Bye bye porn!

At least we tried to prevent his e-suicide.

I think its best if we take cover before Weaste's inevitable entrance into this thread with a machine gun.

 

[Devil_forever]

It's as if you don't value your life or sexual health.

He's every sadist's dream come true and I'm sure that Weaste is coming right now.

 

[Redlambs]

It's as if you don't value your life or sexual health.

He's going to need more than std tests after this one!

At least we tried to prevent his e-suicide.

I think its best if we take cover before Weaste's inevitable entrance into this thread with a machine gun.

I can't watch! On the other hand, since he's effectively commited e-suicide, it might be fun to PM him some replies to Weaste's inevitable posts. You know, to innocently spice things up