But what makes you think giving him 5 years will be a wise move. The guy is managing to lower the standards with each passing week. No way should this arsenal side be 10th. People say they have a bad squad but no way are they this bad to be 10th.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
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You can know every single tactic in the world but it doesn't mean anything if your own players think you're a cock.
Arsenal don't have any sort of structure that would benefit the sacking and hiring of managers on a merry go round basis, much like United have suffered from that approach over the last 8 years.
When they hired Arteta they did so because they were buying into a project, Arsenal were never going to be able to hire someone and go on to finish in the top 4 this season, just look at the state of the squad.
Lowering standards is a bullshit phrase people throw around when their team is losing and people want someone to blame but the manager won't take responsibility for the shit squad.
The team should be performing better but they've given up. Arteta's job is to get them to buy into the project, like what Ole has done at United. People talk about Arteta like he's a genius, and he might well be a tactical god but there's no point in knowing all the ins and outs of the inverse asymmetric pyramid if your players don't respect you and your people skills are shit.
Thought I was the only one to notice this.
Slavia Prague are unbeaten at home this season and they just knocked Leicester out of Europa.
Ha ha
West ham are in top 4 , Leicester are in top 4. This whole idea that their squad is so bad than everton, Leicester or westham just doesn't add up. People keep on bringing Ole. Well Ole is 2nd and not 10th. Do you think Ole would have survived had United been 7th or below, No.Ole helped us finish 3rd last season. So result wise Ole has done well. Arteta has not and people keep on blaming the squad as if they are this bad.
I agree having a stability is very important but you also need results to back. No one expects this arsenal side to compete for the title but atleast be closer to top 4.
You'll still go through I think but it'll be tough. Your whole season basically rests on this competition so the players will be fired up.
According to some Arsenal fans on YouTube it basically comes down to whether they accept the current regime.
If they agree to compromise their opinions they have a place at the club but if not they're no where near.
Would be lovely to completely destroy those racists in the final.
They thought they were underachieving by getting Top 4 under Wenger when in fact they were over achieving, I said to my mate when he wanted him sacked, be careful what you wish for, Wenger was Arsenal, now they’re fading back into obscurity.
That equalizer all came from a bad decision by Gabriel to fanny about at the back instead of passing to Leno to clear, or hoofing it upfield himself. We also missed loads of easy chances so again it's down to the players and not just the manager. But he should have made changes sooner as we looked much more dangerous after Martinelli and Auba started firing.
Wenger was awful at the end, just because they've somehow conspired to get worse shouldn't distract from that.
Confused with the arsenal ‘project’. Thought they were becoming about youth but the rotation of squad and square pegs in round holes seems endless, they have new ozils in auba and lacazette, shit like luiz, xhaka etc still circling the pan and got championship level centre halves and just seem a bit shit all over from management to players.
He reminds me of a young Patrick Kluivert. Whether he ever reaches that potential at Arsenal is another matter.
17 years since they last won the league. I’m wondering how long it’ll be before they challenge for it again/win a title. I suppose the right circumstances could come about in a similar way to our title challenge in 13/14, but right now they seem miles off.
*trust the process
I find it pretty incredible how low standards have become at Arsenal. I'd have expected there to be a crisis at that club given their position but it just seems as though everyone is moving on and accepting things as they are, just fine. It's really surprising how quickly they seem to have bought into their status as a football club being lowered.
Is it though? Is it really?
But if his people skills are shit, then giving him five years, as you seem to suggest they should, would be disastrous.
I mean, I hope they do. It would be hilarious.
Arsenal fans seem to be backing him still though.
It's just weird when you think of the hysteria over Wenger by the end from their fans, and Emery pretty quickly seemed to lose the support of the fans and yet Arteta has been miles worse than Emery or the worst of Wenger and yet it feels like Arsenal fans have just accepted it.
Maybe if there was no covid and fans had been in the grounds each week Arteta would have been sacked a while ago.
Maybe if there was no covid and fans had been in the grounds each week Arteta would have been sacked a while ago.
Thanks i didnt know that. I still think it nuts that not one of their legendary back four is coaching at the club. Utd are moving in the right direction off the field (until butt left), there needs to be room for explayers in the infrastructure but also for new talented coaches, scouts, analytics guys to come through.
It's actually quite mixed, if you go on to social media a lot what him gone. I'll be consistent and say I'll judge him more harshly next season. Think he deserves another summer window & a proper pre season that he's not had yet. Plus, there isn't really an outstanding obvious candidate to take over.
Ljungberg isn't there anymore, but Steve Boukd is the U23 coach, was previously an assistant to Wenger.
This is my point.
People tend to make sweeping and definite judgements about people and ability. "He's not good enough", "He'll never win a trophy" etc. "Good" isn't intrinsic, what defines the parameter of "good"? The reality is people need time to implement ideas and get people to buy in to the cause.
People who work under a manager don't trust management, no matter what career or profession, management is usually the enemy to most because their interests are based upon what those above them want, and those above them want growth and profits, at the expense of their employees. All the best managers you've ever worked for are easy to talk to, good with people, listen, and completely remove the "us and them" divide.
What I'm saying about Arteta is, he may be "good enough" to manage a big team, he may have great tactical knowledge, the best in fact, better than Pep, but none of that matters if his players don't buy in to what he wants to do. I personally believe he doesn't have the man management skills to succeed, and he needs to become more humble if he's to ever get anyway, same as Lampard. Once you start blaming people and you lose the staff, you're finished.
So give Arteta 5 years to make mistakes and learn, build his own squad of people he likes and wants to work with, or get rid and give someone else the opportunity to do that. Either way, nothing at Arsenal is fixable in less than a 5 year period.
I've felt like I've watched that Lacazette miss before this season. Looked identical to another.
Well you're operating under the impression he will continue to be a dick and not learn. These people don't make it to where they are without continually reflecting and learning on the job, like most people in the world. There's a reason managers get better with age.
Yeah, it's a fine line. Listen, at the end of the day, I think everyone knew Arsenal needed a culture change. The players were too soft, they didn't want to put in the work off the ball, they tended to turn up when they want etc.
Emery identified it, Arteta has identified it, even all of us know it. If you are trying to change something as fundamental as this, you are going to upset people. People will get dropped, people will get forced out, & folk will kick off.
The question then becomes when this happens, do you back the players who have continually shown these traits because its easier to get rid of a manager, or do you take a stand and back the manager, which might give short term pain for long term gain.
In the case of Arsenal, they picked a complete novice as manager, a guy not even in his 40's. In doing that, it suggests to me that like you say, they see this as a long term thing, that they realise there has to be a big turnover off players, & that the manager will get time to bring his own players in & try & imprint his own ideas at the club.
Is it the right way or wrong way, no-one really knows. It's either very brave or a bit stupid. Considering I think players have it too easy, & that there's too much player power nowadays, I appreciate that a manger is getting backed at least for a few years & not just on 12 months.
Dreadful player, not sure what Wenger was thinking
He's had a few bad misses this season, decisive moments in games as well. A player that needs improved upon with 1 that has a more all round game in this day & age.
Used to read a lot about Arteta being hated by his fellow players at Arsenal. I think he’s got poor people skills and he’s a poor manager too. His football seems more in tune with David Moyes than Pep but he’s got a long way to be as good as Moyes, never mind Pep.
He's not good enough for a team with top 4 ambitions, but he's definitely not a 'dreadful' player.
Do they though? I can list quite a huge number of high-profile managers who didn't: Clough, Sacchi, Capello, Van Gaal, Wenger, Mourinho - the game moved past all of them and they didn't really reinvent themselves. If anything, you could say that it's the continuous improvement that made Sir Alex so special.
Giving a manager five years with the idea that 'OK he's a bit shit now but maybe he'll get better with age?' is, well, stupid. I mean, I do believe that just giving a manager five years no matter what is also a poor idea - no football club ever operated that way.
How much is he paying his PR team?
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I don't understand it. How do you arrive at Arteta becoming the person around which you 'build a project' around? When first, he has no record to base that on, and then, you see the record of what his team produces on the field after him being there for over a year? Makes no sense to me. So much on the line, so much at risk and so little pointing to him being capable to get it right.
He's the next Guardiola, just like McClaren was the next Fergie.
Haha. Excellent.
I understand the hope and the attempt. But we have enough evidence now to know for certain, no ifs, no buts, that he's not the next Guardiola. Not even close, not in terms of style, not in terms of intensity, not in terms of the capability to unmistakenly shape and design his team's performances, coaching power, if you will.
He might be the next Moyes if he does well. Not that this is a bad thing, but not the right guy to build the project at Arsenal around.
David Luiz and Lacazette are big decisions? Sell them. They're not good enough. Done. Next?