horsechoker
The Caf's Roy Keane.
Up all night making sure his girlfriend wasn't shagging CourtoisWhy is kdb looking tired?
Up all night making sure his girlfriend wasn't shagging CourtoisWhy is kdb looking tired?
Up all night making sure his girlfriend wasn't shagging Courtois
Just realised this is the Arteta thread
My bad, wrong thread.Up all night making sure his girlfriend wasn't shagging Courtois
I swear I didn't click on Arteta thread either, some weird shit happeningJust realised this is the Arteta thread
Maybe because none of those points are particularly solid.You won't be playing 1 game a week, you probably won't spend as much money as you did last season, you won't have 2 direct competitors sack a manager, not sure why I have to keep repeating this.
Just about securing 4th seems to me to be the sweet spot if the Kroenkes are to shell out for the summer. If we do finish 5th, then the club will be extremely reluctant to spend unless they believe Arteta can make something of it (and, if 4th is lost from here, his stock would fall accordingly). A comfortable 4th, or better, might encourage executives to believe that we can maintain top 4 with a lean squad and the best of Hale End incoming.I have to disagree on this. I think we will just have fund to bring in a striker and may be some spares for squad depth. It also depends on whether the club qualifies for CL as well. Arsenal is doing extremely poor in selling players. We have an army of unwanted players on loan.
On your first point, I'm sure you must be facetiously comparing travelling around Europe to games against powerhouses like Wimbledon and Sunderland. On the transfer budget, I said probably, happy to be proven wrong. Your last point is nonsense, we didn't sack Ole because you were doing better than us, we sacked him because we were atrocious and getting hammered by Watford and the likes. If you can't see that the table would most likely look different if Utd and Spurs had functioning teams for the whole season, then I don't know what to say.Maybe because none of those points are particularly solid.
We’ve played a whopping 3 games less than United this season. It was our first season outside of Europe for over 20 years. We’re familiar with the concept of playing (slightly) more games and will compose our squad accordingly.
I’m surprised that you seem to know for sure what our transfer budget is. I’m even more surprised that you know for certain that it would be lower in a scenario where CL qualification increases our revenue by ten of millions of pounds.
We may in fact have two direct competitors sack their Managers next year. And it would mean as much next year as it does this year - very little. You seem to be confusing cause and effect. The teams that finish in the top four aren’t where they are primarily because the teams below them fire their Managers. The teams below fire their Managers primarily because they they’ve been outperformed by the teams above them.
And the table would look different if Arsenal had a functioning team for the whole season, but our first few games were awful because we didn't. Same for if we had a functioning striker.On your first point, I'm sure you must be facetiously comparing travelling around Europe to games against powerhouses like Wimbledon and Sunderland. On the transfer budget, I said probably, happy to be proven wrong. Your last point is nonsense, we didn't sack Ole because you were doing better than us, we sacked him because we were atrocious and getting hammered by Watford and the likes. If you can't see that the table would most likely look different if Utd and Spurs had functioning teams for the whole season, then I don't know what to say.
You said we won’t be playing once a week. If you want to move the goalposts from the number of games to the level of opposition - go ahead. Still, I’ve watched dozens of dead rubber CL games where our kids and squad players have played against mediocre European sides. Knockout ties against domestic cups were often stiffer opposition.On your first point, I'm sure you must be facetiously comparing travelling around Europe to games against powerhouses like Wimbledon and Sunderland. On the transfer budget, I said probably, happy to be proven wrong. Your last point is nonsense, we didn't sack Ole because you were doing better than us, we sacked him because we were atrocious and getting hammered by Watford and the likes. If you can't see that the table would most likely look different if Utd and Spurs had functioning teams for the whole season, then I don't know what to say.
It's not silly at all, if you can't grasp context, I don't know what to say.And the table would look different if Arsenal had a functioning team for the whole season, but our first few games were awful because we didn't. Same for if we had a functioning striker.
See how silly this game is?
I'm sure you knew exactly what I meant by one game a week, I've mentioned Europe already in my previous posts. With regards to your question, I am of the firm belief that the sole reason Arsenal get 4th(if they do) is from us monumentally shitting the bed.If Arsenal finish in the top four, do you think it will be mainly due to:
- Arsenal’s performances across the 38 games of the season?
- Or, the team that finished 7th in the 20/21 season finishing 5th?
“The sole reason”?!? While I’ve disagreed with a lot of what you’ve written, it has so far been coherent (my questions were mainly to clarify what you were saying).With regards to your question, I am of the firm belief that the sole reason Arsenal get 4th(if they do) is from us monumentally shitting the bed.
I think you might be pleasently surprised by this. I think the Kronke's are a bit more engaging with Edu & Arteta & realise the size of the task, & that if there isn't at least some investment you'll be overtaken by clubs that do.I have to disagree on this. I think we will just have fund to bring in a striker and may be some spares for squad depth. It also depends on whether the club qualifies for CL as well. Arsenal is doing extremely poor in selling players. We have an army of unwanted players on loan.
Couldn't make it up.It's not silly at all, if you can't grasp context, I don't know what to say.
I'm sure you knew exactly what I meant by one game a week, I've mentioned Europe already in my previous posts. With regards to your question, I am of the firm belief that the sole reason Arsenal get 4th(if they do) is from us monumentally shitting the bed.
Happy to be proven wrong next season, Arteta will be in his third year of the job, if you have progressed so much then it should be handy enough to finish over a Utd team with a new manager and a Spurs team that definitely haven't improved with Conte(if he's even still there).Couldn't make it up.
Let's look at some numbers for Conor. We are talking whoever gets top 4 out of Arsenal & Spurs gets to the 70 point mark or there abouts.Couldn't make it up.
Arsenal has been losing money in the last couple seasons and the owner invested heavily (in Arsenal standard) in Arteta & Edu to overturn the squad last summer. Arsenal is a business to the owner unlike the state backed club so if Arsenal finish 4th and qualify for CL next season Edu may have more fund to play with. Edu needs to be at his very best to bring in cheap unknown talent for Arteta as I don't think Edu can get much money back from the sale of the unwanted players on loan. I am perfectly happy to be wrong of course.I think you might be pleasently surprised by this. I think the Kronke's are a bit more engaging with Edu & Arteta & realise the size of the task, & that if there isn't at least some investment you'll be overtaken by clubs that do.
European football of any sort should boost revenues on last season, & if they can get a Champions League finish it will significantly improve them. They've also managed to stabilise the wage bill will other clubs are rising, some quite significantly.
I also expect a fair amount of the loan army to finally leave, Mavropanos, Bellerin, Mari, Torriera, Guendouzi are all practically out the door & getting a wee drop in on sales, with the likes of Leno, Maitland-Niles, Nelson, & if the club can somehow sell Pepe they will be joining them, & of course the likes of Nketiah & Lacazette are out of contract.
Anyway, its more than just spending a lot, it's about spending it smart. There's lots of players out there with just 12 months on their deals for instance, Jesus, Tielemans, Bissouma, Aouar, Fabian Ruiz, Douglas Luiz, Asensio, Mukiele, Thuram, Caqueret all guys we've been linked to in the past. Some potentially shrewd players like Aaron Hickey of Bologna that we've just been strongky linked with that can cover both full back roles.
Edu has said they've already put the plans in for the summer & the board have approved, so let's see what they do, I think it should be exciting.
Edu, Arteta, and Josh Kroenke have all said that they intend to spend significantly this summer, that the focus will be bringing in a few players of top quality, and that last summer was Phase 1 of the rebuild while this summer will be Phase 2. We also bid 60-70m for Vlahovic over the winter when CL football was looking unlikely.Arsenal has been losing money in the last couple seasons and the owner invested heavily (in Arsenal standard) in Arteta & Edu to overturn the squad last summer. Arsenal is a business to the owner unlike the state backed club so if Arsenal finish 4th and qualify for CL next season Edu may have more fund to play with. Edu needs to be at his very best to bring in cheap unknown talent for Arteta as I don't think Edu can get much money back from the sale of the unwanted players on loan. I am perfectly happy to be wrong of course.
Other than Jesus I don't see any other rumor linked to Arsenal. I hope Nketiah stays and get more playing time, and Michael Olise from Palace to replace Pepe.
Do you actually think this?Happy to be proven wrong next season, Arteta will be in his third year of the job, if you have progressed so much then it should be handy enough to finish over a Utd team with a new manager and a Spurs team that definitely haven't improved with Conte(if he's even still there).
No, it was sarcasm, read the conversation I've been having with the poster I responded to, he seemingly thinks that it's made very little difference that Spurs sacked their manager and got Conte in last season.Do you actually think this?
If so, it really discredits everything else you've said. Spurs went from having the worst running stats in the league, to one of the best with him. They're 3rd in the form table after he took over on November 3rd with 1.9PPG, as opposed to being 9th before that with 1.5 PPG. They have now got a settled starting XI, although the wing backs are still in doubt.
That's a ridiculously bad take.
Which is the truth.Let's look at some numbers for Conor. We are talking whoever gets top 4 out of Arsenal & Spurs gets to the 70 point mark or there abouts.
So yeah, Conor could be actually right. Although so could we if we say the only reason Utd made top 4 in those seasons were because Arsenal monumentally shit the bed.
- Utd has only got 70 points or more in 3 seasons post Fergie
- They've made the top 4 4 times post Fergie
- 2 of those times they got 70 points & 66 point totals
- They actually finished 2nd last year with 74 points.
So, does Arteta not get any credit for keeping up with that despite having a relatively worse squad if you think Conte has done a good job? Baring in mind there was only 2 points difference when Conte took over, so since he took over we are on the same points?No, it was sarcasm, read the conversation I've been having with the poster I responded to, he seemingly thinks that it's made very little difference that Spurs sacked their manager and got Conte in last season.
He of course gets some credit for doing a decent job, I just don't think that it's an incredibly impressive feat given the context, and I don't think he is going to make Arsenal a contender long term. If anything, I would flip your statement and say that it's impressive that Conte has been able to get Spurs to perform to a decent level so quickly.So, does Arteta not get any credit for keeping up with that despite having a relatively worse squad if you think Conte has done a good job? Baring in mind there was only 2 points difference when Conte took over, so since he took over we are on the same points?
Appreciate it takes a manager some time to get his methods across (not always, hence new manager bounce), but.. that is countered with Spurs bigger squad which most thing are better and also more experienced?
At least tag me if you're going to try and talk shit. I would 100% agree with any sentiment regarding us only getting good placings in most of those instances due to weakness in the league, because I'm not deluded. You seem to think I just want to shit on Arsenal, but I'm just being realistic about what this top 4 actually means. When everyone outside of the top 2 is finishing miles behind them, with teams losing loads of games they shouldn't etc., then it is not as impressive a feat to achieve top 4 as it is when all teams are firing on all cylinders, and you get it purely from performance. Not sure why this is such a crazy thing to wrap your head around.Let's look at some numbers for Conor. We are talking whoever gets top 4 out of Arsenal & Spurs gets to the 70 point mark or there abouts.
So yeah, Conor could be actually right. Although so could we if we say the only reason Utd made top 4 in those seasons were because Arsenal monumentally shit the bed.
- Utd has only got 70 points or more in 3 seasons post Fergie
- They've made the top 4 4 times post Fergie
- 2 of those times they got 70 points & 66 point totals
- They actually finished 2nd last year with 74 points.
Why though? Many think Conte is a world class coach, and he definently has a good squad to work with. Coupled with the fact they spent £60m in January to boost the squad (which it has done), is it that surprising?He of course gets some credit for doing a decent job, I just don't think that it's an incredibly impressive feat given the context, and I don't think he is going to make Arsenal a contender long term. If anything, I would flip your statement and say that it's impressive that Conte has been able to get Spurs to perform to a decent level so quickly.
So a great season apart from not doing so great during the… checks notes… beginning, middle and end of the season.Why though? Many think Conte is a world class coach, and he definently has a good squad to work with. Coupled with the fact they spent £60m in January to boost the squad (which it has done), is it that surprising?
We've got to where we are with 3 strikers this season with a combined 8 goals in the premier league, coupled with the fact we weakened our squad in January if anything (I'm still annoyed we didn't sign anyone tbh).
Again, people can talk about the circumstances for Arsenal all they want, but Arteta has largely had a very good season. He had 3 blips, the start of the season (where we barely had a fit squad), the middle (United/Everton/Liverpool losses close together) and recently (where again we had a few injuries, and it took Arteta a few goes to get a balanced XI out).
I am disappointed with the Everton/United losses, but beyond that I can see progress all round, and where we've dropped points I understand why and hope we build on that next year with a better squad.
People are too harsh on Arteta, he's so early in his managerial career, that it will take time. He won't just suddenly be a top manager, he will make many mistakes along the way, it's about learning from them. I suppose Arsenal fans largely have some patience for that (not all fans though), whereas it seems rival fans don't really care.
Again, just a pointless post. I explained what I meant. He had 3 rocky periods during this season, of which I can understand the reason behind two. As a fan i'm only really disappointed with the United/Everton period because I can't really explain that one.So a great season apart from not doing so great during the… checks notes… beginning, middle and end of the season.
Answer me this, do you think Arsenal would get top 4 if Conte had been there the whole season? Also, Utd fans have literally gone through the exact situation I'm talking about with Ole, so it's not that we have no patience, it's that it's easy to recognise similarities('progress', league standings, players seem happy).Why though? Many think Conte is a world class coach, and he definently has a good squad to work with. Coupled with the fact they spent £60m in January to boost the squad (which it has done), is it that surprising?
We've got to where we are with 3 strikers this season with a combined 8 goals in the premier league, coupled with the fact we weakened our squad in January if anything (I'm still annoyed we didn't sign anyone tbh).
Again, people can talk about the circumstances for Arsenal all they want, but Arteta has largely had a very good season. He had 3 blips, the start of the season (where we barely had a fit squad), the middle (United/Everton/Liverpool losses close together) and recently (where again we had a few injuries, and it took Arteta a few goes to get a balanced XI out).
I am disappointed with the Everton/United losses, but beyond that I can see progress all round, and where we've dropped points I understand why and hope we build on that next year with a better squad.
People are too harsh on Arteta, he's so early in his managerial career, that it will take time. He won't just suddenly be a top manager, he will make many mistakes along the way, it's about learning from them. I suppose Arsenal fans largely have some patience for that (not all fans though), whereas it seems rival fans don't really care.
Don’t forget the “cultural reset”.Answer me this, do you think Arsenal would get top 4 if Conte had been there the whole season? Also, Utd fans have literally gone through the exact situation I'm talking about with Ole, so it's not that we have no patience, it's that it's easy to recognise similarities('progress', league standings, players seem happy).
Your nuanced explanation for these “rocky periods” seems to begin and end with him not having a fully fit squad all available for selection. Which is hard to take seriously considering it’s exactly the sort of thing every manager at every club has to deal with, repeatedly, every season.Again, just a pointless post. I explained what I meant. He had 3 rocky periods during this season, of which I can understand the reason behind two. As a fan i'm only really disappointed with the United/Everton period because I can't really explain that one.
If you just want to look at things in black and white, feel free. But i'd rather dig deeper into how we are actually performing and the reasons why we don't get results, and if that's solely down to Arteta or a mix of things.
People who make a comparison with Ole, I feel there is a bit of a difference in that with Ole I always thought he'd drop points out of nowhere and for no reason really, it just would happen. Similar things with United this year, they win some games which you don't think, then lose random ones.
But isn't arteta doing the same. Losing randomly to Palace, brighton, Southampton. Ole for all flaws achieved 2nd position while also reaching europa finals. Arteta is lucky this season that all his side had to do was focus on 38 games in PL.Again, just a pointless post. I explained what I meant. He had 3 rocky periods during this season, of which I can understand the reason behind two. As a fan i'm only really disappointed with the United/Everton period because I can't really explain that one.
If you just want to look at things in black and white, feel free. But i'd rather dig deeper into how we are actually performing and the reasons why we don't get results, and if that's solely down to Arteta or a mix of things.
People who make a comparison with Ole, I feel there is a bit of a difference in that with Ole I always thought he'd drop points out of nowhere and for no reason really, it just would happen. Similar things with United this year, they win some games which you don't think, then lose random ones.
That's a tricky one tbh. But, yes I think we'd be up there. I mean, you have to think if you extrapolated his PPG for the whole season, he'd be on 65 points, and we'd currently be on 62 points. And part of me feels we'd have signed someone in Jan if it was that tight and we had ground to make up (although that's hypothetical).Answer me this, do you think Arsenal would get top 4 if Conte had been there the whole season? Also, Utd fans have literally gone through the exact situation I'm talking about with Ole, so it's not that we have no patience, it's that it's easy to recognise similarities('progress', league standings, players seem happy).
So what does a coach that isn't Klopp or Pep need to do to actually be given credit if progress, league standings, and players seeming happy isn't enough?Answer me this, do you think Arsenal would get top 4 if Conte had been there the whole season? Also, Utd fans have literally gone through the exact situation I'm talking about with Ole, so it's not that we have no patience, it's that it's easy to recognise similarities('progress', league standings, players seem happy).
Again, I said above, I can see reasons why we lost those games. Our starting XIs were just completely unbalanced, and as soon as we got 3 starters out our squad depth wasn't upto it. Which, is partly Artetas fault, but at least I can see he's learning from it hence the changes vs Chelsea and after.But isn't arteta doing the same. Losing randomly to Palace, brighton, Southampton. Ole for all flaws achieved 2nd position while also reaching europa finals. Arteta is lucky this season that all his side had to do was focus on 38 games in PL.
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He has won silverware already and is on course to take the club back to the CL. Great decision by Arsenal, gives the club stability and Arteta the time to fully implement his rebuilding of the team.Contract extended. Brilliant news. Arsenal will continue being a nonentity for any of the big trophies.