Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

[AshRK]

That's not true, the football has been a lot better since Xmas. We've scored 3 at Leicester, 3 vs Chelsea, 4 vs West Brom, 3 vs Newcastle, 3 vs Southampton, 3 vs West Ham, 4 vs Leeds, 3 vs Benfica, & 3 vs Olympiakos. The problem is there's games still in between like vs Villa, vs Palace & last night where we do struggle. We are still inconsistent, that's the frustration.

He's doing the dirty work at least, & clearing a lot of the bloat. That's part of the reason Arsenal fans are giving him time, because even if with some squad changes in the summer, if the results don't improve next season, the squad should look in a better state for any new manager coming in. A squad with young guys like Saliba, Tierney, Gabriel, Smith-Rowe, Saka, Martinelli with some senior guys like Partey & Auba, not to mention if they bring in a couple in the summer, most managers would be happy with that as a basis to build from than guys like Mustafi, Kolasinac & Sokratis.

I always viewed arsenal in my time as a team who plays entertaining football and dominate the other teams. I have not seen that Arsenal under arteta. Scoring 3 goals here and there doesn't change that. Point is you lot look dull and combined with poor results one has to question the manager.

Again I understand Arsenal fans will back him and defend him but as a rival fan I think he is doing a poor job. Also, you talk about culture change , that is also debatable. Giving luiz, holding, even auba an extension and signing Willian and not playing Martinelli and many other questionable decisions makes one wonder is he even handling the squad well.

 

[horsechoker]

Would Emery have done much worse had he stayed?

 

[TheReligion]

That's not true, the football has been a lot better since Xmas. We've scored 3 at Leicester, 3 vs Chelsea, 4 vs West Brom, 3 vs Newcastle, 3 vs Southampton, 3 vs West Ham, 4 vs Leeds, 3 vs Benfica, & 3 vs Olympiakos. The problem is there's games still in between like vs Villa, vs Palace & last night where we do struggle. We are still inconsistent, that's the frustration.

He's doing the dirty work at least, & clearing a lot of the bloat. That's part of the reason Arsenal fans are giving him time, because even if with some squad changes in the summer, if the results don't improve next season, the squad should look in a better state for any new manager coming in. A squad with young guys like Saliba, Tierney, Gabriel, Smith-Rowe, Saka, Martinelli with some senior guys like Partey & Auba, not to mention if they bring in a couple in the summer, most managers would be happy with that as a basis to build from than guys like Mustafi, Kolasinac & Sokratis.

Saliba looks like he's going and very unhappy and Gabriel just looks another very average player.

Tierney, Saka and Smith Rowe look good but the rest of the squad.. hell of alot of work needed in my opinion.

 

[Halftrack]

Just out of the top of my head, Mourinho was assistant to LVG in barcelona before taking Porto, Nuno Espiritu Santo was an assistant coach as well.

couldnt find any manager from the Norwewiang league making it big, maybe you can. No worries Ill wait.

You'll find Ole has more in common with Nuno than Arteta has. And since you're placing so much emphasis on Arteta's exposure to Pep, shouldn't Ole's 4 years working with and under Ferguson count? Or does that kind of weighty experience get invalidated when you to manage in a lower/smaller league?

 

[RedSky]

Arteta has won 21 league games in 51 matches. 41.18% win rate. He's lost 17 games.

He's fecking awful. Arsenal have lowered their standards significantly with this guy in charge.

 

[RashyForPM]

Would Emery have done much worse had he stayed?

He almost certainly would have done better. He got 5th and an EL final with a worse squad, and then got binned after 1 and a half months of poor form (they were 3rd after GW8 in 2019-20). Arteta has essentially had a year of poor/inconsistent form, counting his ‘honeymoon’ period and not the lockdown. He didn’t even have a good honeymoon period.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Your thinking is literally why no one saying anything about, being a assistant to pep basically top manager.


I wouldn't have took any of Fergie assistants as manager...... But seems being peps elevates you too unseen levels of hype

The thing is you read a post in the middle of an argument, the argument ls about weather you’d choose Pep’s assistant over a manager from a low level league. This decision being taken as a neutral, meaning no one of the assistant nor the manager has any attachment to your club whatsoever. Just purely based on the jobs.

I wouldn’t take Pep’s assistant as manager but I wouldnt take a manager from the Norwegian league either, now if you must choose between that 2 options I’d go for the Pep’s assistant manager.

 

[Amarsdd]

Anyone want to debate Arteta with me?

No, we have first finish shitting on our own manager before getting to the point of this thread.

 

[horsechoker]

Anyone want to debate Arteta with me?

Arteta bad

your move.

 

[GoonerBear]

I always viewed arsenal in my time as a team who plays entertaining football and dominate the other teams. I have not seen that Arsenal under arteta. Scoring 3 goals here and there doesn't change that. Point is you lot look dull and combined with poor results one has to question the manager.

Again I understand Arsenal fans will back him and defend him but as a rival fan I think he is doing a poor job. Also, you talk about culture change , that is also debatable. Giving luiz, holding, even auba an extension and signing Willian and not playing Martinelli and many other questionable decisions makes one wonder is he even handling the squad well.

It's not been here or there, since Xmas we're 2nd highest scorers in the league, before Xmas we were something like 14th in terms of goals scored. There's a marked difference, it's just not consistent enough. I back him only because I think he deserves time, I can see some improvement in general, but will continue to expect more after another transfer window & an actual pre season that he hasn't had yet. Therefore I'll judge him more harshly next season.

Saliba looks like he's going and very unhappy and Gabriel just looks another very average player.

Tierney, Saka and Smith Rowe look good but the rest of the squad.. hell of alot of work needed in my opinion.

We'll agree to disagree then. Everything the club has put out about Saliba is that they see him as the future of Arsenal. Gabriel has looked good in the main, a few shaky moments but for a 22 year old Brazilian in his first season in England has looked promising.

He almost certainly would have done better. He got 5th and an EL final with a worse squad, and then got binned after 1 and a half months of poor form (they were 3rd after GW8 in 2019-20). Arteta has essentially had a year of poor/inconsistent form, counting his ‘honeymoon’ period and not the lockdown. He didn’t even have a good honeymoon period.

I doubt he'd have done better. He had Arsenal roughly where we are when he left, had completely lost the dressing room, & had become a joke figure on the media, with fans & most importantly with his players. How many managers are able to turn losing a full dressing room around?

 

[GoonerBear]

No, we have first finish shitting on our own manager before getting to the point of this thread.

That was my way of trying to get back on point.

 

[SAFMUTD]

You'll find Ole has more in common with Nuno than Arteta has. And since you're placing so much emphasis on Arteta's exposure to Pep, shouldn't Ole's 4 years working with and under Ferguson count? Or does that kind of weighty experience get invalidated when you to manage in a lower/smaller league?

Mate this is not an argument about Ole vs Arteta. From the very beginning I said looking this as a neutral as if they didnt have any attachments to neither club at all.

I do believe they got the job based on their history as players in each club, weather thats enough or not to grant you a chance is another subject but its clear none of them had the credentials based on their manager career to take a top job.

Now the argument was about how Arsenal appointed such an inexperienced manager, I say we kind of did the same thing.

so the hypothetical question is who would you rather take, Pep’s assistant or a manager from the Norwegian league.Without meaning anyone is good enough, deserves the job, etc just who would you rather take?

as I replied to a posters earlier, since people gets sensible and thinks somehow this ls an attack on Ole, lets change the names of the options no Ole or Arteta just 2 random persons with no attachment to the club in any way.

If you had to choose between Pepijn Linjders (Klopps current assistant) or Eling Moe (Moldes current coach) who would you rather get?

 

[RashyForPM]

I doubt he'd have done better. He had Arsenal roughly where we are when he left, had completely lost the dressing room, & had become a joke figure on the media, with fans & most importantly with his players. How many managers are able to turn losing a full dressing room around?

Precisely. Arteta supposedly still has the full support of his dressing room, and is on course to finish below Leeds, Everton, Spurs, West Ham etc, clubs Arsenal under Wenger would never finish below (aside from Spurs when it was clear the man had declined). Imagine what happens when even his messages become stale and he loses the dressing room like Emery did?

Also, my other point was, Emery actually did come 5th after occupying a top 4 spot while making a European final in his only full season. He definitely became a joke figure, but the media were awful in the way they treated him, and I said so at the time. Good ebening or whatever, he was genuinely showing good manners to them. Also, get these guys to speak a single sentence of Spanish, and they’d get cold sweats.

 

[Judas]

Saka and Smith Rowe should really look to move on if they truly want to progress their careers.

 

[GoonerBear]

Precisely. Arteta supposedly still has the full support of his dressing room, and is on course to finish below Leeds, Everton, Spurs, West Ham etc, clubs Arsenal under Wenger would never finish below (aside from Spurs when it was clear the man had declined). Imagine what happens when even his messages become stale and he loses the dressing room like Emery did?

Also, my other point was, Emery actually did come 5th after occupying a top 4 spot while making a European final in his only full season. He definitely became a joke figure, but the media were awful in the way they treated him, and I said so at the time. Good ebening or whatever, he was genuinely showing good manners to them. Also, get these guys to speak a single sentence of Spanish, and they’d get cold sweats.

Oh I definitely think he got a hard deal because of how he was perceived. He also didn't get the players he wanted, he wanted Maguire, Partey & Zaha & was overruled with Saliba, Torriera & Pepe so that didn't help his cause.

Although he didn't help himself when blowing top 4, the performance in the Europa League final, & then his mental tactics which eventually lost the players.

 

[RashyForPM]

Oh I definitely think he got a hard deal because of how he was perceived. He also didn't get the players he wanted, he wanted Maguire, Partey & Zaha & was overruled with Saliba, Torriera & Pepe so that didn't help his cause.

Although he didn't help himself when blowing top 4, the performance in the Europa League final, & then his mental tactics which eventually lost the players.

Yeah I agree with that. Just to clarify, I don’t think Emery was the answer for you lot too. As a United fan, I’m naturally happy that Arsenal are struggling a bit because it’s one less rival for top 4 or a title challenge. My point was simply that since I’d be surprised if Kroenke went, Arteta has to go if you lot are to be successful again. You lot should just take a punt on Allegri or something.

 

[GoonerBear]

Yeah I agree with that. Just to clarify, I don’t think Emery was the answer for you lot too. As a United fan, I’m naturally happy that Arsenal are struggling a bit because it’s one less rival for top 4 or a title challenge. My point was simply that since I’d be surprised if Kroenke went, Arteta has to go if you lot are to be successful again. You lot should just take a punt on Allegri or something.

It might come to that in the end. Like I said, I'm willing to give him until next season. We, like yourselves, could still be in a European final in a couple of months, so that & how we finish the season (we have a favourable fixture list until the end of the season, not that means much this season) & perceptions can change again.

This will probably be the summer that makes or breaks him. Will actually get a pre season, will be his 2nd summer window, so fans will expect an improvement & more consistency. If that does happen & with crowds back there will be much more pressure on him.

 

[Sassy Colin]

I would choose the assistant, I know its a slim chance but I think the actual benefit of striking gold and somehow having a assistant that can emulate someone like Klopp is worth more that hiring an already made coach from a league like the norwegian.

of course I would pick neither in an open market, but it choosing between those two I would pick the assistant.

Of course you would, that's the whole point of your argument. People are already laughing at you. Imagine if you'd chosen the manager in a lower league option?

 

[Sassy Colin]

Didnt you read the post? How about Jose Mourinho, does his name ring some bells? Won the league in spain, england, portugal, italy, two UCL titles, a triplet with Inter? Was a big thing around 2010, portuguese bitter fecker. Should have heard of him I think.

now please mention the successful manager from the lower league.

Have a look at Wenger's early career, before Arsenal. Didn't he manage in the J-League, or something?

 

[SAFMUTD]

Have a look at Wenger's early career, before Arsenal. Didn't he manage in the J-League, or something?

For 10 years?

 

[acnumber9]

Have a look at Wenger's early career, before Arsenal. Didn't he manage in the J-League, or something?

He had also won the league at Monaco to be fair.

 

[Sassy Colin]

For 10 years?

Oh give over.

 

[Sassy Colin]

He had also won the league at Monaco to be fair.

But that's the whole point ffs!

Look, I accept that Ole got the job because of his United connections, but it was only supposed to be temporary, he was due to go back to Molde. What he did in that temporary role meant that he was given the job full time.

If Arteta had come in, initially, as caretaker and did what he did, would he have been given the job full time?

fecks sake, I don't know why I'm even bothering. I don't give a flying feck about Arsenal.

 

[Terminator]

I dont think its right to criticize him for Arsenal being 9th in the PL table... they are 10th

 

[horsechoker]

I dont think its right to criticize him for Arsenal being 9th in the PL table... they are 10th

 

[Adisa]

They are properly finished at the top level.

 

[mav_9me]

That's not true, the football has been a lot better since Xmas. We've scored 3 at Leicester, 3 vs Chelsea, 4 vs West Brom, 3 vs Newcastle, 3 vs Southampton, 3 vs West Ham, 4 vs Leeds, 3 vs Benfica, & 3 vs Olympiakos. The problem is there's games still in between like vs Villa, vs Palace & last night where we do struggle. We are still inconsistent, that's the frustration.

He's doing the dirty work at least, & clearing a lot of the bloat. That's part of the reason Arsenal fans are giving him time, because even if with some squad changes in the summer, if the results don't improve next season, the squad should look in a better state for any new manager coming in. A squad with young guys like Saliba, Tierney, Gabriel, Smith-Rowe, Saka, Martinelli with some senior guys like Partey & Auba, not to mention if they bring in a couple in the summer, most managers would be happy with that as a basis to build from than guys like Mustafi, Kolasinac & Sokratis.

Is the difference between the good and bad games, Saka and Smith-Rowe playing vs not playing?

 

[acnumber9]

But that's the whole point ffs!

Look, I accept that Ole got the job because of his United connections, but it was only supposed to be temporary, he was due to go back to Molde. What he did in that temporary role meant that he was given the job full time.

If Arteta had come in, initially, as caretaker and did what he did, would he have been given the job full time?

fecks sake, I don't know why I'm even bothering. I don't give a flying feck about Arsenal.

I understand all that. I’m just not sure what the point of mentioning his one year in Japan was.

 

[GoonerBear]

Is the difference between the good and bad games, Saka and Smith-Rowe playing vs not playing?

Honestly it seems like that sometimes. We have 3 creative guys in that mould, Smith-Rowe, Saka & Odegaard. If 2 or 3 of them are playing we seem a lot more balanced, fluid & creative. When 2 of them are out, we seem more static, especially when Auba gets put out left, we lose a lot. I suppose it also shows the fragility in the squad still, which we need to overcome because their will inevitably be injuries throughout a season, & because of course Odegaard isn't our player.

 

[Walrus]

The Saliba situation seems particularly baffling, but it seems like Arteta struggles with aspects of man management. A lot of questionable decisions.

 

[Lentwood]

I don’t care for Arsenal either way but I’ll defend Arteta because, like when Ole came to Utd, there were huge issues at Arsenal that needed to be resolved even before you start considering results.

Too many managers are only bothered about making decisions which benefit them i.e. short term decisions. Arteta, like Ole, is having to endure short term pain for the long term good of the club.

 

[Flexdegea]

I don’t care for Arsenal either way but I’ll defend Arteta because, like when Ole came to Utd, there were huge issues at Arsenal that needed to be resolved even before you start considering results.

Too many managers are only bothered about making decisions which benefit them i.e. short term decisions. Arteta, like Ole, is having to endure short term pain for the long term good of the club.

Ole was never this bad and he took us over in a worse spot than arsenal where when he got the job.


People need to stop comparing the both of them not even close

 

[SAFMUTD]

I don’t care for Arsenal either way but I’ll defend Arteta because, like when Ole came to Utd, there were huge issues at Arsenal that needed to be resolved even before you start considering results.

Too many managers are only bothered about making decisions which benefit them i.e. short term decisions. Arteta, like Ole, is having to endure short term pain for the long term good of the club.

Haha the good old classic “rebuild” argument, he’s shite. Results and performances are shite I don’t understand how anyone dares to defend him.

 

[TheReligion]

I don’t care for Arsenal either way but I’ll defend Arteta because, like when Ole came to Utd, there were huge issues at Arsenal that needed to be resolved even before you start considering results.

Too many managers are only bothered about making decisions which benefit them i.e. short term decisions. Arteta, like Ole, is having to endure short term pain for the long term good of the club.

I think the issue is he does things like sign and extend Luiz, buying Willian and sticking with the likes of Xhaka. Much like with the style of play he says one thing but does another. Are they going with youth and getting rid of deadwood or are they not? Who knows.

Also there's certainly man management issues RE Saliba, Ozil etc

 

[TwoSheds]

I don’t care for Arsenal either way but I’ll defend Arteta because, like when Ole came to Utd, there were huge issues at Arsenal that needed to be resolved even before you start considering results.

Too many managers are only bothered about making decisions which benefit them i.e. short term decisions. Arteta, like Ole, is having to endure short term pain for the long term good of the club.

There's definite question marks still as to whether Ole can kick on from the initial "make everyone smile and work a bit harder, feck a few overpaid players off" phase, but in Arteta's case there hasn't been any evidence whatsoever that there's even a glimmer of hope of him kicking on from there. He's not even really managed to get them enjoying their football or feck off many of the overpaid players, and in fact has recruited some more so...

 

[Van Piorsing]

He won FA Cup, so give him time to win another FA Cup.

 

[horsechoker]

He won FA Cup, so give him time to win another FA Cup.

We sacked Van Gaal and haven't won an FA Cup since. Arsenal won't make the same mistake.

 

[tinfish]

He needs to be sacked...but I can't think of a suitable replacement right now. At this point in time I would just bank everything on EL.

 

[Scroto Baggins]

How are Arsenal behind Spurs? I watched the Newcastle v Spurs game, and a poor Newcastle side had 22 shots. Spurs were rubbish bar a couple of players, the defence laughable, as soon as an attack passes midfield you felt Newcastle were in with a chance.

 

[Slysi17]

This Arsenal squad has deteriorated so badly over the past 5 years. Never mind challenging for titles, they need 7 players in the starting eleven just to make top four. And I really don't think Stan Kroenke would spend that amount of money to get them there.