I assume the we Sultan is referring to is British or English people or perhaps in a more general sense he means everyone. Either way the meaning is the same and fairly clear.
Missing Princess of Dubai
- Thread starter golden_blunder
- Start date
Jeeze this thread
i was hoping we’d all get together to solve this mystery and become famous on Netflix
i was hoping we’d all get together to solve this mystery and become famous on Netflix
Charming.
I've read the post timeline again. Still a mystery why you're irritated that people talk about the UAE here & have interpreted your posts accordingly.
I'd say this disinterest in any local specifics, and immediately going for the generic "Islam" angle, is what other posters have sensed right away.
You'll probably think this amounts to rejecting all criticism of oppression of women and LGBT people, and similarly ugly things. I can only speak for myself there. I have all the time in the world for human rights activists and affected local people who criticize and oppose conditions of oppression and inequality. In this particular case, I feel the best and most convincing way to support their cause is to post what they specifically say about the UAE. And if they want to make a wider point on top of that, just as well. I'm sure there's lots of stuff from good people with in-depth knowledge about this subject. Funnily, that's what you seem to have little interest in, instead throwing around generic remarks about "cloth bags", death penalty, and "certain women in the world".
What's crystal-clear in all these current disputes about "Islam" is that sound social criticism has to be distinguished from hostility driven by projective needs. They may look the same at first glance, but they're fundamentally different. People (not) being aware of the problem of overgeneralization is a pretty strong hint in that regard. This doesn't only apply to this, but to many controversial political topics.
To be fair the UAE's legal system is a hodge podge of western style law mixed with bits of sharia type law. And it doesn't generally apply to you if you are senior enough (unless someone even more powerful has it out for you).
Of course most countries legal systems are far from perfect but I think the UAE's is far more flawed than most even if not as bad as Saudi or Iran's or other places not in that part of the world.
Thanks
I don't understand
I'm sorry I misinterpreted the problem according to you and whoever else.
I'm sure your intentions are good. I think you're wrong. Cloth bags' been done to death by now, how long will I have to pay for my mistake? Death penalty? What's wrong with "certain women in the world"?
Ok?
I think we can move on. It was mentioned. You acknowledged. That is the best way to resolve things like this if possible imo.
Seems my joke was the best part. You're welcome
There is an interesting interview with her and her family and ex husband on daily motion where some of her lies get exposed somewhat.
Her mum and dad had divorced when she was quite young. Her father was a strongly against FGM. Her husband had given her the money to go to him in canada, money she used to run away to Luteren. She hadn't stayed low key and was found and visited by her husband. She said she no longer wanted him so there was a gathering where he accepted she didn't want him. Didn't want the money back and left to go back to Canada.
Also worth noting is that islamically her version of her marriage cannot happen. The woman is asked first and relatives cannot sign on behalf of the bride etc. She says her father in particular is very islamic so it's not conceivable that he would not know this or go against it.
It's quite common for girls in her neck of the woods to get married for the sake of getting to Europe.
Anyway see if you can watch the documentary on dailymotion (part 3 and 4). See what you think
Ive seen the documentary and I tend to believe Ayaan's version of events. If she was happily at her wedding ceremony which they claimed she was, it would have been easy as hell to produce a picture(certainly the one event where a photo is appropiate). Her brother also later admitted she wasn't there. Opressive family members don't tend to be honest about being oppressive, certainly not when featuring in a documentary. Regarding the islamic version of event of' her wedding, she says that both her FGM and the whole culture around her wedding is dominated by Somali tribal culture. Her father was in prison when she was subjected to FGM, it wasnt him who decided it, it was her grandmother. The documentary is a poor attempt at character assasination. Hardly any of their "gotcha" points contradicts what she writes completely openly in her auto-biography.
Last edited:
Personally, as a layman, I would definitely prefer to be tried in a Western-style court than in most other countries.
If you're elite and at the very top, I suppose the law doesn't apply in certain situations even in democratically mature nations with hundreds of years of trying to get the justice system correct. Without getting into too many historical wrongs I am immediately thinking of Trump and his predecessors granting pardons to convicted criminals. He also got away with inciting the riots in which 5 people were killed due to a political process.
Dubai is a relatively new nation and has just been noticed by the outside world over the last 25 years. The progress and advances made by the country over this time are phenomenal. It's not anywhere near perfect, but give it time and I have no doubt other flaws will improve over time.
Last edited:
You sure know how to make a discussion an absolute waste of time.
@Wibble
Just came across the following in my previous post. Things are definitely changing for the better.
December 2020
We see no contradiction in taking pride in our accommodation of pluralism while being proud of our Islamic values and Emirati culture,” Mr Al Hebsi said.
“To be a global player – one that embraces opportunities for economic prosperity for our citizens and contributes to global progress and mutual understanding – we have to break barriers by reassessing and redefining our cultural, economic and political positions.”
The landmark reforms affect laws relating to divorce and separation, how wills and assets are divided, alcohol, suicide and the protection of women from harassment.
The laws of a person's country of origin can now be used for divorces and inheritance. Suicide and attempted suicide will be decriminalised as will drinking alcohol without a licence. And although extremely rare in the Emirates, there will be no potential leniency for suspects accused of so-called honour crimes.
The reforms are being championed as a game changer, making life for the 200 nationalities who call the UAE home much easier and attracting even more. Mr Al Hebsi said the openness of the country’s society is a key factor in more and more people choosing to set down roots here.
"We can expect the UAE’s status as a first-rate expatriate destination to be further cemented by our promotion of long-term cross-cultural appreciation, exchange, and understanding," he said.
https://www.thenationalnews.com/uae...-changes-part-of-progressive-policy-1.1125523
Just came across the following in my previous post. Things are definitely changing for the better.
December 2020
We see no contradiction in taking pride in our accommodation of pluralism while being proud of our Islamic values and Emirati culture,” Mr Al Hebsi said.
“To be a global player – one that embraces opportunities for economic prosperity for our citizens and contributes to global progress and mutual understanding – we have to break barriers by reassessing and redefining our cultural, economic and political positions.”
The landmark reforms affect laws relating to divorce and separation, how wills and assets are divided, alcohol, suicide and the protection of women from harassment.
The laws of a person's country of origin can now be used for divorces and inheritance. Suicide and attempted suicide will be decriminalised as will drinking alcohol without a licence. And although extremely rare in the Emirates, there will be no potential leniency for suspects accused of so-called honour crimes.
The reforms are being championed as a game changer, making life for the 200 nationalities who call the UAE home much easier and attracting even more. Mr Al Hebsi said the openness of the country’s society is a key factor in more and more people choosing to set down roots here.
"We can expect the UAE’s status as a first-rate expatriate destination to be further cemented by our promotion of long-term cross-cultural appreciation, exchange, and understanding," he said.
https://www.thenationalnews.com/uae...-changes-part-of-progressive-policy-1.1125523
A couple of posters in this thread are historically known in the CE forum to take any issue in any majority Islamic country and take it to a Muslim/religion angle.
Since you're responding to someone responding to me..... I've got 0.something postcount/day. There's no religious angle to this, btw? In a very muslim country.
I am glad it is resolved!
Ye, I'm sorry. Told you before it was a waste of time. Glad you agree now.
Please do enlighten me of the religious angle I may be missing?
FYI, less Muslims are residing in Dubai than people of others faiths/none. Approximately 85% of the population is made up of ex-pats. Like, @Wibble has already mentioned above, and my newspaper article states Dubai laws are not specifically dictated by Shariah law. I can also confirm no country in the world imposes Shariah law in its entirety or even a small percentage.
I am hardly about to enlighten you on this, am I. If I say a woman is reported trying to leave her family, to escape somewhere without her family, denied this by her family and reportedly imprisoned by her family. I'm sure you'll have a none religious interpretation of that. Has nothing to do with religion. Family matter, crazy family or not. No reason to suspect religious beliefs involved in decision-making here. And I'd oppose that and say something like, but, but...some women under islam are threated so and so, there's similarity in those and this. I'm not sure what I could tell you or show you that would convince you. The same the other way round. That's how these discussions have been for decades. If there is something obvious I'm missing, tell me, please. I'll actually be happy to change my opinion!
I am no expert on Dubai, nor Islam. I'm not muslim, though my other half is. Not sure what your point is with this info. Non muslim are threated like non muslim in Dubai? Sharia only for muslim people? I do know victims of rape can have a hard time, independent of religious affiliation.
"I have black friends".
True, although in that case my remark was more about spamming others with passive-aggressive one liners.
But yes, it's a recurring theme in these kinds of discussions. The thread about the murdered teacher in France was the absolute nadir. Responding to the worst takes can suck up all the energy that should be invested in more worthwile discussions.
That said, my stance towards religious conservatism and traditionalism is far more critical than my posts in these threads may make it seem. It's just that as long as these lazy stereotypes dominate the discussions around all things Islam, it's very hard to bring it across without getting caught up in these stupid 'clash of civilizations'/'West vs Islam' types of dualisms. For example, I did have issues with your first two posts and thought of replying, but things went differently. Maybe later.
Last edited:
Think we are going around in circles here, yes even accordingly everywhere in the rest of the world Murder, is not Legal!
What the Saudi's or anyone else for that matter gets away with, is a different issue....nowhere on earth is Murder legal, surely you can accept that?
I accept people anywhere in the world may, through various 'acts' or evasions, or, bribery or any other sort of distraction get away with Murder, which I think is what you are trying to argue...but that does not make the act of Murder legal.
By you keep on insisting that somehow, in certain countries that Murder is a legal entity, (in practice)you are in effect condoning/excusing the behaviour of 'rogue states' who appear to be using Murder as a means to silence or obliterate their enemies... it still does not make it legal!!!!
You don't need to be an expert on any subject to post your opinions. The minimum you can do is ask questions or Google for information. You've gone in with a pre-conceived negative narrative that seems to be agenda-driven. At least it reads like that to me and a number of posters in this thread.
FYI, post number 133 will give you an insight into the working of the Dubail legal system. I am positive more reforms will come as the years pass.
Few things, if any, I'm expert on. So that's a good thing. I search almost everything. Sometimes I forget and make a fool of myself. That always feel really bad.
Agenda-driven? I suppose... I'm unsure. There seem to be a "mystery", some clues are given, unsolved one might say. One need to make up ones own mind about parts of it. If I made something up to fit my agenda, that's regrettable. As I said, I'm happy to change my mind..
I'm not trying to "catch" you in the following. Just want to point something out for your convenience. No big deal per se, but I find it interesting. Your source (in post 133) uses the following wording:
"And although extremely rare in the Emirates, there will be no potential leniency for suspects accused of so-called honour crimes.".
A different source:
"The United Arab Emirates said on Saturday it was cancelling lenient penalties for so-called “honour killings” ... Human rights groups say thousands of women and girls are killed across the Middle East and South Asia each year by family members angered at perceived damage to their “honour”. This could include eloping, fraternizing with men or any transgression of conservative values regarding women.".
Both of those are about three months old. Make of it what you wish. (Oh, and if you find that I left something out from the article, that's not on purpose. Just click the link(s) and all information is there..)
I actually had to calm myself before replying to this. First I started typing, and stopped myself. It's not worth getting instant banned for. Please, don't reply to anything I post. Go away..
I'm not sure where you're going with those links. Surely, Dubai making it harder for those involved in honour killings will not be tolerated and will be severe in their sentencing is a good thing?
Last edited:
Fair enough if you believe her. To me there are obvious lies in her narrative about nearly every claim she initially made.
If you are interested in her life story, you could read her autobiography where she explains all these episodes in great detail including the documentary, but it's fair enough if you're not interested.
I'm not really to be honest. Not now anyway.
Usually it's a passing interest if it becomes a topic of conversation in my personal life.
Being a Muslim certain things become topics of conversation in circles I may inhabit or even in my previous work roles. So then it piques my curiosity.
Over the years many things have cropped up and she was one a while back. Hence my initial response to a poster on this thread was more of a question about her being outed as a liar rather than a statement.
Ok. Cool enough.
I think you're going round in circles. I've been saying the same thing from the beginning. If you're rich enough, you can get away with murder. Not sure what you're so uptight with. The law does not apply equally. Hence in practice.
I'm slightly confused by this comment to be honest. The example you've given of Ali doesn't seem to match up in the slightest with this post.
Has anyone on the CAF ever said that Ali or other women of Muslim origin don't deserve the same rights that Western women do? Or that Ali and other Muslim women deserve to have FGM inflicted on them?
I imagine Ali's incredibly forceful way of speaking may be what rubs people up the wrong way, as opposed to her views on FGM for instance.
This entire thread is a bit of a clusterfeck from almost all sides to be honest and I just feel desperately sorry for the poor woman.
I'm done in this thread because I'll get banned for going off-topic. It was a stupid provocative comment to make.
Murder is not legal!
Although people do get away with it especially if they have power and influence, the act of Murder itself is not legal... not in practice, not in reality, not in anyway, or in any country will you find a law that permits Murder.... but getting away with it is possible, I agree on that.... but committing the act of Murder is not legal.
I'm afraid you're still chasing your own tail here. I'm not disputing that murder is not legal...
I know it's more than week since these posts, but I feel there are still things left to be said.
If you base it on something, it would be good to share it. But if it's just pure speculation, it seems like preemptively casting doubt on a woman's credibility when she speaks out against mistreatment. Same goes for the suggestion she might be unable to decide for herself due to mental illness. (On the contrary, psychological damage would make getting out of that environment probably even more urgent.)
What we do know is that human rights groups back Latifa's version of events, and we know there was precedent with the abduction and subsequent disappearance of her older sister. There's also a former wife of Sheikh Mohammed having sought asylum to escape the family regime, and backing the accusations. What is the supposed other side to the story that could potentially make all of this invalid?
Stripped to the basics, it's simple to me: Latifa should have the right to go where she wants, associate with whom she wants, and live how she wants. Her accounts leave no doubt that whatever has happened to her has happened against her will, with the use of force. What more is needed to make a primary judgement?
Reading the wikipedia page on religion-based law and human rights in the UAE (3.4 to 3.10 in the index), it does look grim. I'm aware of the dangers of "wiki knowledge", so I'll certainly listen to anyone familiar with local circumstances, and how it all plays out in society. But I can see no justification for laws criminalizing homosexuality, 'blasphemy', and 'adultery', and a whole lot of other things reported there. Same goes, on principle, for corporal punishment, amputations, death penalty, etc.
Are there any credible indices to connect her to such a severe crime? I've followed the story a bit and I've not came across anything of that kind.
If you base it on something, it would be good to share it. But if it's just pure speculation, it seems like preemptively casting doubt on a woman's credibility when she speaks out against mistreatment. Same goes for the suggestion she might be unable to decide for herself due to mental illness. (On the contrary, psychological damage would make getting out of that environment probably even more urgent.)
What we do know is that human rights groups back Latifa's version of events, and we know there was precedent with the abduction and subsequent disappearance of her older sister. There's also a former wife of Sheikh Mohammed having sought asylum to escape the family regime, and backing the accusations. What is the supposed other side to the story that could potentially make all of this invalid?
Stripped to the basics, it's simple to me: Latifa should have the right to go where she wants, associate with whom she wants, and live how she wants. Her accounts leave no doubt that whatever has happened to her has happened against her will, with the use of force. What more is needed to make a primary judgement?
I know it's often treated this way, but I have no interest in such an approach. Turning criticism into identitarian contests always takes away from the actual issue. From the standpoint of individual rights and freedoms, every power arrangement can be judged on its own merits and failings. Essentially, what it does to people.
Reading the wikipedia page on religion-based law and human rights in the UAE (3.4 to 3.10 in the index), it does look grim. I'm aware of the dangers of "wiki knowledge", so I'll certainly listen to anyone familiar with local circumstances, and how it all plays out in society. But I can see no justification for laws criminalizing homosexuality, 'blasphemy', and 'adultery', and a whole lot of other things reported there. Same goes, on principle, for corporal punishment, amputations, death penalty, etc.
Top post. Have a follow.