Who the feck says this I never understand it. DoF isn't some sort of cheer leading role
MNF with Pochettino
- Thread starter keithsingleton
- Start date
Its the Caf, we've had posters suggest that we should play Shaw at CB, Pogba as a winger and Fred at LB. Nothing surprises me on here anymore.
Once again you talk as if Pochettino managed Spurs for only a few - terrible - months and was quickly ousted. He was there for several good years previously. Yes, things soured and he left - it happens a lot with managers, good and great. There aren't any Ferguson's around. Klopp's last season with Dortmund wasn't good. So?
"Not good enough for Spurs" my arse. He was terrific for them.
Backed by scienceHow can something that is backed by science be a myth?
Anyway, he exceeded expectations with a team without resources of a big club. It is a no brainer that he will do well here and take us back where we should be.
So...
...they sacked him because he wasn't good enough then.
Mourinho's results were good enough in his first two seasons at United for him to keep his job, qualified for the CL both seasons, won two trophies, finished 2nd. But it all went tits up and fell off a cliff so he was understandably sacked.
Pochettino's time at Spurs followed a somewhat similar trajectory minus the trophies.
Where should we be ? Don't you mean where you want us to be, we probably are ''where we should be'' when not managed by someone named Busby or Ferguson.
He's a very likeable guy and I think he'd do a very good job here. Wouldn't be the free flowing football some seem to imagine though
Backed by science
You'll learn not to question Amadaeus
When is this link from? Anyways, he's spent more than Liverpool and only 59 million less than Chelsea. Both teams have been significantly more successful.
Pochettino is a good coach, but let's not pretend that his time in Tottenham proves that he's a genius. His highlight is reaching a CL final and finishing 3rd in a 2 horse race in one of the poorest PL season's I've seen.
I already know he lives somewhere inside Poch but to say that backed by science comment is taking it up another level
and to make it even better, this ‘science’ is net spend! I love it
For five out of his six years at Spurs Pocchetino over-achieved at Spurs, based on the money spent and the historical achievements of the club.
When did this happen with Mourinho at United?
So - his transfers made during the summer of 19/20 do not Count ?
14/15 - netspend about £3 million
15/16 - netspent about -£15 million (profit)
16/17 - netspend about £27 million
17/18 - netspend about £15 million
18/19 - netspend about £-3 million (profit)
19/20 - netspend about £75 million
So the correct number is about £100 million - not £50
But it should be added that Levy has done a great jobbing Selling players - which has covered over Pochettinos poor signings. The fact still remains- the majority of Spurs' keyplayers have come from their own ranks, or were signed Before Pochettino arrived. But as I have said Before - he deserved credit for Alderweireld and Son.
But Kane, Lloris, Vertonghen and Eriksen - the 4 best players together with Alderweireld and Son in the Poch-era were already there when he arrived
14/15 - netspend about £3 million
15/16 - netspent about -£15 million (profit)
16/17 - netspend about £27 million
17/18 - netspend about £15 million
18/19 - netspend about £-3 million (profit)
19/20 - netspend about £75 million
So the correct number is about £100 million - not £50
But it should be added that Levy has done a great jobbing Selling players - which has covered over Pochettinos poor signings. The fact still remains- the majority of Spurs' keyplayers have come from their own ranks, or were signed Before Pochettino arrived. But as I have said Before - he deserved credit for Alderweireld and Son.
But Kane, Lloris, Vertonghen and Eriksen - the 4 best players together with Alderweireld and Son in the Poch-era were already there when he arrived
Same here. I like Poch but the big question mark over him for me is his record in big games.
I really like what Hasenhuttl has done with Southampton and I think he has done better there than Poch did.
If Everton beat us this weekend, I think Ole might get the boot. Shame as I like Ole and really wanted it to work out but it's all about results and home form is just shocking at this point. It's very worrying that he doesnt see the glaringingly obvious problems in playing Pogba and Bruno together.
You are being incredibly facetious there.
In his last season, yes, Poch "wasn't good enough". For five of those years he arguably overachieved and improved Spurs year on year, culminating in a CL final nobody expected them to get to. I've seen Spurs fans on here proclaim them to be the best manager they've had in the PL era at least.
Mourinho achieved the bare minimum he needed to in order to keep his job here for TWO years, and even then most will argue that his overall tenure was a brutal failure and the third year was merely a culmination of poor team building and transfers in the prior two years.
it's completely incomparable, if you can't see the difference then I don't know what to tell you.
It does help your net spend when you basically get a £150m striker for free.How can something that is backed by science be a myth?
Anyway, he exceeded expectations with a team without resources of a big club. It is a no brainer that he will do well here and take us back where we should be.
I don't like Mourinho, but breaking 80 points with the team he had is a good achievement. When the board didn't back him in the transfer market after that, I realized that we have a long road ahead of us. Whoever is in charge is going to have a really hard time. We may occasionally strike gold and find a miracle worker, but it will not lead to long-term success. Perhaps that's hoping for too much in today's climate, though.
He cost 22 million....... What's he worth?
Getting 80 points at Manchester United wasn’t over-achieving though. We pay huge salaries and spend a shit-load on transfers. We’re one of the two or three wealthiest football clubs on the planet. It really just shows how crap our post-Fergie managers have been for 80 points to be considered any kind of achievement.
Getting Spurs to a CL final is over-achieving. Consistent CL qualification is over-achieving. Getting Spurs within touching distance of a PL title is over-achieving.
Mourinho never over-achieved at any point in his brief stint with United. If we manage to hire a manager who actually gets us to over-achieve we’ll be fecking rolling in trophies.
I agree. If Woodward and the Glazers don't work with the manager we are lost, no matter who it is.
Yep, point proven.
I'm comparing them both qualifying for the CL mate not their performances based on the relative expectations of each club.
For two full seasons Jose qualified for the CL then it fell apart and he got sacked.
Pochettino managed that for 4 out of 5 seasons fair play to him but then it ultimately ended in similar fashion. His teams form nosedived and he got the boot.
Also in the 5 years before Pochettino took over at Spurs their league finishes were 4th, 5th, 4th 5th and 6th. In 5 years under Pochettino they finished 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th an improvement no doubt but he hardly worked miracles as his first season coincided with Harry Kanes emergence and him scoring 31, 28, 35, 41 and 24. Don't know how Pochettino would have fared having to rely on Adebeyor averaging 10-15 goals a season.
I remember a lot of Arsenal fans saying they would have him when you left Spurs. Until we sort out a DOF we are going to be stuck with people who but the business ahead of the football...
Why should Ole even accept being a DoF? So if Poch fails everyone can still blame Ole? Ole will either stay as manager or leave United. Then it would be up to Poch and the board to either get it sorted or oversee another 2-3 years of underperforming. Also without preseason for Poch and if we are still in 4 competitions if he comes mid season the pressure will immediately be on getting results. Will he be able to deal with this pressure while having to prepare for a game every 3 days? Or we may get knocked out of all cup competitions early so he will have full weeks to prepare for league games.
“Hey Ole, you’re not good enough at the job you’re doing right now, so we’re bringing in someone to replace you. However, despite you not being good enough, you’re going to get a promotion, and you’ll be the boss of the person that’s going to replace you.”
For the people that spout the ‘Ole as DOF’ idea, can none of you see a glaring issue here?
For the people that spout the ‘Ole as DOF’ idea, can none of you see a glaring issue here?
This
Son worth? ...that’s a tricky one
2 Pogba’s ?
or 3 Maguire’s ?
or maybe 5 Jones’ ?
or how about 10 Lingards ?
He would not be telling him how his team will play in the same way Klopp and Pep do not get told what to do when it comes to the running of the team.
You need to get out more.
Yeah you could argue he overachieved but personally i'm not so sure. Apologies for quoting myself but it saves time.
Then don't tell me anything mate because i don't find Pochettinos achievements at Spurs a particularly interesting subject to discuss. Especially as Poch seems to have a quite fervent fan base on here for some odd reason.
As i said he's a good manager but i don't really think he would be a massive improvement on what we have/had with Solskjaer and Mourinho. If he’s even an improvement at all.
Yeah but he gets his team play with high intensity. Something we seem to struggle with from the kick off and Ole can't get going. Some football spurs played under him was entertaining, one touch and with intensity. When Kane, Son and Erickson and Ali were in free flow they were very good to watch. With Martial, Rashford, Greenwood and Fernandes he has the players there but will coach them better.
And Ali for £5m. Eriksen, Dembele, Lloris, Vertonghen already there. They were his 'resources', all nothing to do with him and his 'net spend'.
This is hilarious, almost as if you're making excuses for Poch who's 'worse tally' is something you'd accept but at the same time would chase Ole out of the club for......
Ole:
2018/2019 - 6th - 66
2019/2020 - 3rd - 66
RedCafe's hard-on for Poch is like the girl you have a huge crush for years. Your current girlfriend is cute but to you she's not as cute as the girl next door who is more or less the same as your current girlfriend (on face value) - so you toy with the idea of breaking up with her.....but in actual reality there's no reason to break up with your current girlfriend because you've gone through a rough patch a few times. The high times have been great but it's getting rough again and you can't be bothered anymore.....
When will people learn that overperforming with a mediocre team is not the same as keeping a strong team strong. They are wildly different tasks. If hiring miracle workers always was the solution, then finding the right manager wouldn't be so hard for the top teams.
The way I see it, there are only 3 ways for a coach to be successful over long periods:
1. Be truly special. And by 'special' I mean a once in a generation talent. In the current generation, Klopp is that man. The bastard..
2. Spend more money than all your rivals. This doesn't always work, but it certainly helps.
3. Find a manager that is an expert at keeping a great team great(in comparison to his rivals). The prerequisite here is that your team must already be the best in the league(or very close) on paper. Pep is the perfect example of this.
I find number 1 to be the worst solution for us, as the odds of finding the next generational talent is super slim. Every time we fail, it costs us at least 1 year. Usually more than 2. The only way forward is a combination of point 2 and 3.
The problem with number 3 is that it's very hard to prove whether or not a manager fits this description, as very few managers are fortunate enough to be in such a position. Solskjær has experienced something similar on a micro-level(the United reserves and Molde), which is why I still believe he could win trophies if he had a team as strong as Liverpool's. But the only way to find out is to see what happens when he gets a team that is at least on a similar level. This is not an unfair demand for a club of our stature. And no, I don't think Ole deserves it more than any of our other previous managers. Mourinho should definitely have gotten more support. I don't like him, but I believe he could have won us major trophies with a better team.
The way I see it, there are only 3 ways for a coach to be successful over long periods:
1. Be truly special. And by 'special' I mean a once in a generation talent. In the current generation, Klopp is that man. The bastard..
2. Spend more money than all your rivals. This doesn't always work, but it certainly helps.
3. Find a manager that is an expert at keeping a great team great(in comparison to his rivals). The prerequisite here is that your team must already be the best in the league(or very close) on paper. Pep is the perfect example of this.
I find number 1 to be the worst solution for us, as the odds of finding the next generational talent is super slim. Every time we fail, it costs us at least 1 year. Usually more than 2. The only way forward is a combination of point 2 and 3.
The problem with number 3 is that it's very hard to prove whether or not a manager fits this description, as very few managers are fortunate enough to be in such a position. Solskjær has experienced something similar on a micro-level(the United reserves and Molde), which is why I still believe he could win trophies if he had a team as strong as Liverpool's. But the only way to find out is to see what happens when he gets a team that is at least on a similar level. This is not an unfair demand for a club of our stature. And no, I don't think Ole deserves it more than any of our other previous managers. Mourinho should definitely have gotten more support. I don't like him, but I believe he could have won us major trophies with a better team.
I don't disagree - I merely disagree that it's comparable to Jose's time here. He did a far better job at Spurs than Mourinho at Utd.
Tell that to my government.
But no, really, it's a fecking dumb idea. Just think about it for a sec and you'll see.
What's tricky about it? Pretty simple question really.
Yes I agree, we have the front players and with coaching and getting team playing with high intensity we could be up there with the best.
Reckon It would be interesting to see how much he spent/was the net spend vs. the actual point tally he got. Didn´t he menage to get more points than all our managers at their time at OT?
What's hilarious is your stupid reply with the girlfriend quote.
Excuses not needed, it's plain to see Levy wouldn't give him the money that United would. Under those circumstances Poch did really well and deserves his chance.
The longer we keep Ole the bigger the frustration we have waiting for the inevitable.