Go on....
Morocco in joint bid with Spain and Portugal to host 2030 World Cup
- Thread starter Rood
- Start date
Go on about what? Sentences end with a period.
What does it imply?
Im not breaking forum rules to spell it out for you.
I'm happy to have it explained.
Alright I wonder how you have the capabilities to turn on a phone/tablet or a computer, sign up to here, get the rudimentary meaning of words and still be ... enough to ask such a silly question.
You've said my post implies something about me but not what. So what is it?
Wonderful Idea uniting 2 continents
Portugal and Spain are literally next to each other and are similar size to France and Germany. Morocco is just beyond the sea, and you could arrange schedule so that you’d only need to travel there once and back.
This would be a great location but there is literally zero chance of anyone other than Saudi getting it IMO.
Are you suggesting that mass exploitation of migrant workers doesn't happen in those countries? Because as someone who works for an organisation that helps get people out of those situations, I can assure you it does.
I know it does. But it's not a state business there is it? If you work with organisations battling this I'd think you'd know a thing or two about it.
https://www.huckmag.com/art-and-culture/travel-diary-almeria/
https://minorityrights.org/programmes/library/trends/trends2022/spain/
https://www.theguardian.com/global-...ant-workers-speak-out-from-spains-plastic-sea
https://minorityrights.org/programmes/library/trends/trends2022/spain/
https://www.theguardian.com/global-...ant-workers-speak-out-from-spains-plastic-sea
Yes I do and there's plenty of support from the states.
I know many think Saudi will throw money at it to win but I can't see them winning, this bid and the South American one are much stronger candidates
Plus the voting system has changed since Russia/Qatar got it - Now every FIFA country gets a vote so makes it a lot more difficult to manipulate with bribes etc
Will be a 208 game bonanza.
Well that needs to be improved. But the fact that any reporter can walk into it at any time, photograph anything and publish it without having to avoid going back to Spain is already a massive difference? I hate that these people are being taken advantage of, but it's hardly the same as the government being the organisation doing it.
It's very similar to anyone observing it closely and it's identical to anyone experiencing it. These enterprises are virtually state sponsored and you are more likely to end up in prison if you try to do anything about it than if you are involved in organising it.
So did they abandon the whole Europe-Asia-Africa-Americas rotation idea?
I don’t mind joint bids. As long as the stadiums and infrastructure are there, it’s a great way to give smaller countries the opportunity to host. But it should be countries close to each other to keep travelling at a minimum.
What enterprises are virtually state sponsored?
Any examples of someone at risk of prison for stopping such exploitation?
Way into the future but I don't mind it at all.
British Empire likes this.
I very seriously doubt that.
But let's just say you are right about that, the experience is "identical" to having your rights and passport removed entirely in a country with no legal recourse available and no option to leave, to the benefit of the government (all of which I would argue against being the case here). Do you think the football tournament will be as linked to that government as it was in Qatar? Are they going to bring out a bullfighting cape at the end too?
Who else is bidding? Isn't it time for a North African WC?
Seem to be pretty much sticking to it:
South Africa (Africa) - Brazil (Americas) - Russia (Europe) - Qatar (Asia) - USA/Mexico/Canada (Americas) - Morroco/Spain/Portugal (Europe/Africa).
Morocco, Egypt and South Africa are probably the only African countries that would meet the criteria to host a WC, so sticking to that rotation wouldn't really work.
Can't Tunisia or Ageria join Egypt, Morocco?
That is exactly what these people experience along with violence, rape and intimidation.
https://verite.org/african-migrants-strawberries-spain-pandemic/
The Spanish govt repeatedly refuses to hear the cases of these people and very actively do nothing. As for people going to prison I've only got anecdotal evidence which I'm not putting on the internet. Here's an example of how the state operates in PT.
Every link you posted said they aren't leaving because of the same economic necessity that brought them there, not because they were forcibly held or had been robbed of their documents. I simply don't see the parallels even if this horrible and wrong.
The most likely winning bid IMO, as UEFA/CAF will likely have more votes than both AFC and CONMEBOL/CONCACAF. I like the idea of a Spain/Portugal/Morocco WC as trips won't be long, the time zone is convenient, most of the infrastructure is already in place an the countries are competitive and passionate about the sport.
I would have loved to have the WC in my country as part of the south american bid (Chile/Argentina/Paraguay/Uruguay) but the US/México/Canada bid winning 2026 pretty much spoiled our chances. There has never been two consecutive Americas WC and I don't think this will be the first time.
I would have loved to have the WC in my country as part of the south american bid (Chile/Argentina/Paraguay/Uruguay) but the US/México/Canada bid winning 2026 pretty much spoiled our chances. There has never been two consecutive Americas WC and I don't think this will be the first time.
Then you're choosing to be willfully ignorant to sustain your opinion. Whether they have a passport or not they are trapped where they are and everyone involved knows and understands this, or are you blaming them for being there? On the subject of state involvement, any functioning state (which both of these are) could and should be able to prevent this from happening on the industrial scale that it does. That they do not suggests that these activities are tolerated by the state (I would argue they are actively supported but can understand many would not agree). Why am I such an idiot, as you put it, to suggest that these issues should be highlighted in the same way as they were in Qatar?
Saudi nabbed Egypt for their bid to scupper a proper North Africa World Cup
Plus Morocco and Algeria hate each other !
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Either that or I'm cognizant of the fact that two different situations in two different countries can both be shitty without being the same. The agriculture industry across Europe is sadly rife with exploitative practices to different degrees (and I know of no other continent where it's any better either). Any highlighting of that is welcome, but to act like it's the same as a authoritarian country where a huge percentage of the overall population is working under these conditions, any internal dissent or coverage is itself persecuted and people are forcibly held is disingenuous at best.
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I don't see anything in what you have sent me that says that the companies are quasi-state-owned.
I'm not saying there is no exploitation but I doubt that the government promotes it, or that it is protected.
There are often police raids and the protests in el Ejido are public knowledge.
It sounds more like private individuals taking advantage of illegal workers.
The legal ones simply suffer the shitty working conditions that exist picking strawberries, tomatoes or in the grape harvest.
I don't think there is a country free of sin in this case, but to put it in the same scale as other countries doesn't make sense.
I have close to zero sympathy for police anywhere, including portugal, but how on earth are you comparing this to qatar? In the case you linked, the police officers involved were suspended, accused and are currently awaiting trial. The police cooperated with the investigation and there was general condemnation, from the average joe on the street to the government. It's not even on the same planet as to what happens in qatar.
Also, there is exploitation of migrants in portugal, for sure, sadly as it happens in many/most places. But I will need you to show me how the portuguese government promotes this exploitation.
If this is the sort of whataboutism we can expect, it really shows signs of desperation.
It's not whatabout anything. I am very pleased that what's happening in Qatar is exposed. I think some people are assuming I'm posting in support of Qatar, I'm not. The Portuguese government supports the situation in the alentejo by tolerating it. Most people who live close to it don't really know much about it which is why the entire country was shocked by it, but it's not a million miles away from normal. For context, the situation in Portugal is not as bad or organised as in Spain imo, but it is significant, institutional and crucial to the national economy, a large percentage of the EU's fruit and veg comes from these regions. Do you really think people trapped in these situations in Portugal, Spain or Qatar experience them differently? Yes they are comparable.
I really don't know what to say if you honestly think you can compare how migrants are treated in Portugal and how they are treated in Qatar.
And by asking if people will complain about the treatment of migrants if we organize the world cup, you are obviously whatabouting.
When we organized the Euros, one worker died. Sadly, some poor bloke slipped and fell while fixing a stadium roof. Compare that to Qatar.
I can't believe I'm having this conversation.
One thing I don't get about Saudi bid is surely it's too early, it would be Asia hosting two World cups in 8 years and I thought the rotational element was still a thing at least regardless of how much money gets waved towards Fifa. China will host WC before Saudi imo.
It should go to SA for 2030 but Spain and Portugal getting baulk of tournament wouldn't be a bad alternative at all.
French and Spanish concur
Well that's why Saudi have thrown Greece and Egypt into the mix as they know they won't win on their own, even though they could easily host it alone since it's much bigger than Qatar with a better football infrastructure
Like I say, slavery on an industrial scale happens in the alentejo. It's a fact, check with Amnesty, the UN, the EU etc... Saying 'but it's not Qatar' is whataboutism. I'm assuming you're Portuguese and find what I'm saying offensive and unsettling, I understand that. Please don't assume I'm suggesting that it is in any way related to Portuguese culture, character or identity because it isn't (same with Spain) you're all wonderful people. Like I said, the people in the area are largely unaware of it, it is very well hidden and most people just assume that ciganos come in and do all the work. The state though, is unquestionably aware of it and does nothing. Spain is a lot worse and conditions and treatment there are lethal.
So even if we agreed and said that it was not the same as Qatar, are you arguing that Portugal and Spain should not be called out for what goes on? If it was England I'd be asking for the outsourcing of slavery to other countries to be highlighted.