Morocco in joint bid with Spain and Portugal to host 2030 World Cup

[maniak]

Like I say, slavery on an industrial scale happens in the alentejo. It's a fact, check with Amnesty, the UN, the EU etc... Saying 'but it's not Qatar' is whataboutism. I'm assuming you're Portuguese and find what I'm saying offensive and unsettling, I understand that. Please don't assume I'm suggesting that it is in any way related to Portuguese culture, character or identity because it isn't (same with Spain) you're all wonderful people. Like I said, the people in the area are largely unaware of it, it is very well hidden and most people just assume that ciganos come in and do all the work. The state though, is unquestionably aware of it and does nothing. Spain is a lot worse and conditions and treatment there are lethal.

So even if we agreed and said that it was not the same as Qatar, are you arguing that Portugal and Spain should not be called out for what goes on? If it was England I'd be asking for the outsourcing of slavery to other countries to be highlighted.

I'm not the type of person who is proud to be portuguese, we are not all wonderful and neither is our culture, this country is full of racists and rulers who don't give two shits about most people, so I'm not offended or anything. I'm just amazed that apparently slavery on an industrial scale sponsored by the portuguese government is happening a couple of hours from where I live and even closer to where I have family and I've never noticed.

I have family in Castro Verde and Aljezur who regularly go to Odemira and everyone sees loads and loads of indians, nepalese and pakistanis going on about their lives. Many live in houses in the town, they go shopping, etc. So I really don't know where you get this idea people don't know they are there and some ciganos magically come and do all the work when no ones watching.

So please provide me with this information. And not about shit working conditions and exploitation, I know these exist. State sponsored slavery on an industrial scale is your claim, I'd like to see it proved.

 

[Cal?]

Just do another winter WC if it's too hot in the summer months

 

[NoLogo]

Yeah this would be great for a million reasons, would be really up for it.

..So it’ll go to Saudi.

Exactly my reaction, "Oh, that sounds like a great idea. That means FIFA are likely going to give the WC to North Korea."

 

[Member 125398]

I'm not the type of person who is proud to be portuguese, we are not all wonderful and neither is our culture, this country is full of racists and rulers who don't give two shits about most people, so I'm not offended or anything. I'm just amazed that apparently slavery on an industrial scale sponsored by the portuguese government is happening a couple of hours from where I live and even closer to where I have family and I've never noticed.

I have family in Castro Verde and Aljezur who regularly go to Odemira and everyone sees loads and loads of indians, nepalese and pakistanis going on about their lives. Many live in houses in the town, they go shopping, etc. So I really don't know where you get this idea people don't know they are there and some ciganos magically come and do all the work when no ones watching.

So please provide me with this information. And not about shit working conditions and exploitation, I know these exist. State sponsored slavery on an industrial scale is your claim, I'd like to see it proved.

I haven't claimed state sponsored but state tolerated.
Wiki
2014
2021
Here's SEF accusing the govt of allowing slavery https://www.dinheirovivo.pt/economi...cao-dos-trabalhadores-migrantes-13682674.html
more from earlier

An excerpt from the wiki in English:

The phenomenon of modern agricultural slavery mainly focuses on the municipality of Beja, where in 2018 10 000 immigrants resided, in Ferreira do Alentejo, Aljustrel and Moura, involving immigrants from Senegal, Guinea-Conakry, Pakistan, India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Romania, Moldova, Brazil and Bulgaria, estimating the total number of immigrants at 28 000, in illegal situation and in precarious conditions. [9] Behind the trafficking of people in Portalegre and Beja are criminal organizations made up of members of Eastern Europe and India. [9] The exploitation of precarious labor is done by companies that pay for jobs daily, hour or for each activity, or landlords who rent overcrowded homes where they live 15 or 20 individuals per division ensuring them profit margins of 200 to 300 percent. [9] Some remain confined in mounds, practically kidnapped by unscrupulous engageers, without contracts, social security discounts and almost without wages, and farmers who directly employ and house these workers. [9] The phenomenon has no parallel in Europe. [9]

the citation

A leading Portuguese lawyer:

"It is very important that the state intervenes, not only at the level of police repression, but at the preventive level to prevent these things from happening. We think that the state has failed a lot, because the Foreigners and Borders Service [SEF] has been extinguished, it is not yet known what exists in terms of police coordination in relation to these immigration situations and we still have the case that the state itself has allowed these agricultural complexes", he said.....

At a time when the issue of human rights has been on the agenda, the result of the world football in Qatar, which has sparked protests in several countries, Menezes Leitão said that the situation is not comparable to that of the country, but admitted that the country must also "put its hand on conscience" in the face of these cases of slavery of migrant workers.

"The World Cup should not be used to whiten these kinds of schemes," he said, adding: "In any case, we are not exempt from this and we should set an example for the world. I fear that this kind of news puts us in a bad image in international terms and will eventually embarrass the image of Portugal. These things cannot happen in our country."

Bastonário of lawyers demands state intervention in the face of cases of slavery in alentejo - Observer (observador.pt)

 

[FrankFoot]

I haven't claimed state sponsored but state tolerated.
Wiki
2014
2021
Here's SEF accusing the govt of allowing slavery https://www.dinheirovivo.pt/economi...cao-dos-trabalhadores-migrantes-13682674.html
more from earlier

An excerpt from the wiki in English:

The phenomenon of modern agricultural slavery mainly focuses on the municipality of Beja, where in 2018 10 000 immigrants resided, in Ferreira do Alentejo, Aljustrel and Moura, involving immigrants from Senegal, Guinea-Conakry, Pakistan, India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Romania, Moldova, Brazil and Bulgaria, estimating the total number of immigrants at 28 000, in illegal situation and in precarious conditions. [9] Behind the trafficking of people in Portalegre and Beja are criminal organizations made up of members of Eastern Europe and India. [9] The exploitation of precarious labor is done by companies that pay for jobs daily, hour or for each activity, or landlords who rent overcrowded homes where they live 15 or 20 individuals per division ensuring them profit margins of 200 to 300 percent. [9] Some remain confined in mounds, practically kidnapped by unscrupulous engageers, without contracts, social security discounts and almost without wages, and farmers who directly employ and house these workers. [9] The phenomenon has no parallel in Europe. [9]

the citation

A leading Portuguese lawyer:

"It is very important that the state intervenes, not only at the level of police repression, but at the preventive level to prevent these things from happening. We think that the state has failed a lot, because the Foreigners and Borders Service [SEF] has been extinguished, it is not yet known what exists in terms of police coordination in relation to these immigration situations and we still have the case that the state itself has allowed these agricultural complexes", he said.....

At a time when the issue of human rights has been on the agenda, the result of the world football in Qatar, which has sparked protests in several countries, Menezes Leitão said that the situation is not comparable to that of the country, but admitted that the country must also "put its hand on conscience" in the face of these cases of slavery of migrant workers.

"The World Cup should not be used to whiten these kinds of schemes," he said, adding: "In any case, we are not exempt from this and we should set an example for the world. I fear that this kind of news puts us in a bad image in international terms and will eventually embarrass the image of Portugal. These things cannot happen in our country."

Bastonário of lawyers demands state intervention in the face of cases of slavery in alentejo - Observer (observador.pt)

All that shit is just poor labour conditions that exists everywhere in the world, cause literally there is no country in the world where poorer immigrants receive the same labour conditions as a national.
It's just greedy capitalism, and that's how it works, that's how it will work.

Even in my third world country, migrants from poorer countries don't receive the same labour conditions as nationals do.

Complaining on RedCafe won't do anything, just as nothing was done in Qatar, especially complaining about something as normalized as exploited labour, so normalized that even "woke" people buy Adidas/Nike/Apple stuff made in Bangladesh/India/El Salvador in sweatshops, and nobody cares.

 

[Member 125398]

All that shit is just poor labour conditions that exists everywhere in the world, cause literally there is no country in the world where poorer immigrants receive the same labour conditions as a national.
It's just greedy capitalism, and that's how it works, that's how it will work.

Even in my third world country, migrants from poorer countries don't receive the same labour conditions as nationals do.

Complaining on RedCafe won't do anything, just as nothing was done in Qatar, especially complaining about something as normalized as exploited labour, so normalized that even "woke" people buy Adidas/Nike/Apple stuff made in Bangladesh/India/El Salvador in sweatshops, and nobody cares.

No argument from me about the bolded bit. Complaining at every opportunity is exactly what should be done, direct action where possible too, or are you suggesting we just accept it?

I'm genuinely shocked at the responses to this.

 

[FrankFoot]

No argument from me about the bolded bit. Complaining at every opportunity is exactly what should be done, direct action where possible too, or are you suggesting we just accept it?

I'm genuinely shocked at the responses to this.

It's a football forum, it won't do anything.

The battle is lost, when you have "woke" people buying Adidas/Nike/Apple/Puma/Sony,etc, and those things aren't even a necessity like food or water to make an excuse.

I can't do anything about it, unless i travel to the places in where these sweatshops are located, and interview people about their experience, and then organize a protest...but i can't do that cause i have to work.
That's the way you actually would have an impact in this problem, not posting about it on a football forum.

 

[Member 125398]

It's a football forum, it won't do anything.

The battle is lost, when you have "woke" people buying Adidas/Nike/Apple/Puma/Sony,etc, and those things aren't even a necessity like food or water to make an excuse.

I can't do anything about it, unless i travel to the places in where these sweatshops are located, and interview people about their experience, and then organize a protest...but i can't do that cause i have to work.
That's the way you actually would have an impact in this problem, not posting about it on a football forum.

I kind of do that. If one person has read it and is disgusted by it that's a plus imo. Media exposure of the horror in Qatar has increased the possibility of positive change, it may or may not be successful but most who have seen it are disgusted by it. Change doesn't happen from one single action. It is however, necessary to be aware of what needs changing in order to change it. This is my last post on the subject, I hope there are people fighting for the people you describe in whatever way they feel possible.

 

[Rood]

I kind of do that. If one person has read it and is disgusted by it that's a plus imo. Media exposure of the horror in Qatar has increased the possibility of positive change, it may or may not be successful but most who have seen it are disgusted by it. Change doesn't happen from one single action. It is however, necessary to be aware of what needs changing in order to change it. This is my last post on the subject, I hope there are people fighting for the people you describe in whatever way they feel possible.

There has already been progress on workers rights in Qatar due to the WC spotlight

I don't think it's whataboutery to mention similar issues in Spain or Portugal - hopefully there can be progress there too

Ultimately, no country is totally 'clean' so I prefer to look at these bids on a football level rather than get too sidetracked with the rest

Football wise this bid is my favourite - combo of Southern Europe and North Africa with 3 football mad countries in the mix

The South American centenary bid also has a lot going for it - spreading across 4 countries seems a bit much though. Uruguay & Argentina are the heavyweights of the bid.

 

[Rood]

2030 World Cup: ‘Right time’ for Morocco’s sixth bid
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/africa/64977708

Morocco's sports minister has said he is "confident" now is the "right time" for the country to launch a sixth attempt to host football's men's World Cup.

The North African nation have joined Spain and Portugal in a joint bid for 2030, replacing Ukraine who have been forced to pull out due to the ongoing war with Russia.

"It's a natural bid - Spain, Portugal and Morocco have close ties," Chakib Benmoussa told BBC Sport Africa in the Rwandan capital, Kigali, where Morocco's part in the bid was announced last week at World Cup organisers Fifa's annual congress.

"[Spain and Portugal] have invested a lot in infrastructure and in developing football and we think the bid has a lot of chance."

Morocco joining its two European neighbours makes this the first confirmed transcontinental bid in World Cup history.

"Geographically, distances are closer than other groups where we are and which will organise the World Cup in future," Benmoussa explained.

"We are confident that it will be the right time."