Most clean sheets across Europe in all competitions!

RashyForPM

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Our much-maligned defence, including by myself, have achieved this. I understand we’ve played in the Europa, but Inter, Arse or Sevilla haven’t achieved this, nor have Bayern or PSG in piss easy leagues. We have.

Imo, keep the same back 5 for next season as these guys have proven to be solid, while buying Sancho and Rice. We’ll get 3rd place easy then, and possibly more.

Thoughts?
 

treble_winner

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Our much-maligned defence, including by myself, have achieved this. I understand we’ve played in the Europa, but Inter, Arse or Sevilla haven’t achieved this, nor have Bayern or PSG in piss easy leagues. We have.

Imo, keep the same back 5 for next season as these guys have proven to be solid, while buying Sancho and Rice. We’ll get 3rd place easy then, and possibly more.

Thoughts?
But the season isn’t over yet? Still Champions League and Europa League to conclude, before we can draw out the stats for this season officially.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I don't think we need a new thread for this, I feel embarrassed reading it and don't think we need to discuss about it. I'm one of them who acknowledge the improvement but our defense should be viewed on the league not all comp. We are playing in Europa League FFS. If we do this next season then it's worth a discussion.
 

SirAnderson

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I've never really slated our defense, they have been immense, as immense as our attack imo. If we can limit our mistakes to 1 mistake a game even only, we will be immovable.
 

Nick7

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I don't think we need a new thread for this, I feel embarrassed reading it and don't think we need to discuss about it. I'm one of them who acknowledge the improvement but our defense should be viewed on the league not all comp. We are playing in Europa League FFS.
3rd best defence in the league. Would be first apart from a few De Gea howlers.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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3rd best defence in the league. Would be first apart from a few De Gea howlers.
So why can't we change the statement to that? It's embarrassing to talk about all comp when we are playing in Europa League. If we do this next season then it's worth a discussion.
 

RashyForPM

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I don't think we need a new thread for this, I feel embarrassed reading it and don't think we need to discuss about it. I'm one of them who acknowledge the improvement but our defense should be viewed on the league not all comp. We are playing in Europa League FFS.
Clean sheets in the Europa is really nothing to sneer at imo. It is undeniably beneath us, but we still have to keep the clean sheets and we’re still top in Europe in that department. Why haven’t Arse, Pool, Spurs, Inter, Dortmund etc done it in previous years?
I've never really slated our defense, they have been immense, as immense as our attack imo. If we can limit our mistakes to 1 mistake a game even only, we will be immovable.
We’re getting there I think. A case study would be two days ago, when top scorer Vardy hardly got a touch bar the glancing header.
 

OleBoiii

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Our defense is obviously very good.

If it weren't for DDG's mistakes and our midfield occasionally being overrun, we'd concede far less. Maguire and AWB have both been very successful transfers. Shaw and Lindelöf have improved. Williams has a promising future.

Signing a defender should be our 3rd or 4th priority, imo. Our bench options are a bit worrying, though.
 

RashyForPM

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Our defense is obviously very good.

If it weren't for DDG's mistakes and our midfield occasionally being overrun, we'd concede far less. Maguire and AWB have both been very successful transfers. Shaw and Lindelöf have improved. Williams has a promising future.

Signing a defender should be our 3rd or 4th priority, imo. Our bench options are a bit worrying, though.
Mostly agree with this. Bailly is an able backup though, just too injury-prone.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Clean sheets in the Europa is really nothing to sneer at imo. It is undeniably beneath us, but we still have to keep the clean sheets and we’re still top in Europe in that department. Why haven’t Arse, Pool, Spurs, Inter, Dortmund etc done it in previous years?
Because their defense weren't good enough in previous years, not rocket science. Talk about "all comp" next season when we are in CL not now.
 

Ekeke

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We had a better defensive record 2 seasons ago with Smalling and Jones. They didnt get support like this, nor did they have AWB the best defensive rightback helping them out.
 

OleBoiii

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We had a better defensive record 2 seasons ago with Smalling and Jones. They didnt get support like this, nor did they have AWB the best defensive rightback helping them out.
Didn't they also have:

- Peak DDG for the whole season
- Peak(?) Matic for the whole season
- Mourinho(i.e defensive setup)
 

Van Piorsing

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Deadwood in defense can be easily cleared and we can surely upgrade quality of defense even further, CL level.
 

andersj

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We had a better defensive record 2 seasons ago with Smalling and Jones. They didnt get support like this, nor did they have AWB the best defensive rightback helping them out.
They did not get support like this? They had a younger Matic and a more experienced player in Herrera infront of them.

We also conceeded more chances and shots that season, but had the best goalkeeper in the world in goal.
 

Ekeke

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Didn't they also have:

- Peak DDG for the whole season
- Peak(?) Matic for the whole season
- Mourinho(i.e defensive setup)
No.

We had Mourinho last season and a terrible defensive record. Spurs also have a bad defensive record.

Matic was better this season

DDG was worse but they did more defensive work partly because AWB is a powerhouse defender



We even scored 2 more goals that season, 68 instead of 66 and we conceded 8 less goals

 

LoneStar

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This is why I have been saying CB should not be our priority. Should be RW followed by a CM/DM.

However if we manage to get rid of Jones/Rojo/Smalling we might end up buying a good backup (someone young) makes sense.

We keep complaining about the mistakes our players make because we watch all their games. We don’t watch others defenders day in and day out and hence think they don’t concede due to mistakes. Not saying we have a great pair of CBs, but they are good enough to build our attack on.

This stat is relevant for exactly this, over the course of a season we are the 3rd best defensively, which means we have a good defence. No amount of mind bending can change that fact. And it’s not like we have been parking the bus every game.
 

romufc

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Didn't they also have:

- Peak DDG for the whole season
- Peak(?) Matic for the whole season
- Mourinho(i.e defensive setup)
Post like those really mean nothing.

We played a back 6 in most games.
 

Ekeke

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Probably because Lingard and Pereira were our creators for the majority of the season?
And what did those players do? A lot of legwork, pressing - which reduced the pressure on the CBs. Bruno does this too but with far more quality on the ball
 

DWelbz19

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Couple things you can’t really deny about us — we don’t concede *that* many, but more importantly, we don’t lose *that* many either.

If my calculations are correct — we’ve lost 11 out of 58 matches this season.
 

Ekeke

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Our last big game in the premier league in 17/18 before seasons end, against Arsenal where we won 2 - 1



On average we had our CBs high up and 1 DM behind the half way line. The fullbacks were pushing forward past the halfway line

Here are our average positions against Leicester, the last big game of this season where we won 2- 0



CBs further back, DM further back, fullbacks not pushed past the halfway line

Both have 5 of our players in the opposition side of the pitch on average


When people say shit about how we played that season like its so different now its stupid because we can check :rolleyes:
 

Tom Cato

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I don't think we need a new thread for this, I feel embarrassed reading it and don't think we need to discuss about it. I'm one of them who acknowledge the improvement but our defense should be viewed on the league not all comp. We are playing in Europa League FFS. If we do this next season then it's worth a discussion.
Why on earth are you embarrassed about a factual statistic? I suggest taking pride and joy in accomplishments regardless of what they are, you will have a happier life for it.
 

bond19821982

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I don't think we need a new thread for this, I feel embarrassed reading it and don't think we need to discuss about it. I'm one of them who acknowledge the improvement but our defense should be viewed on the league not all comp. We are playing in Europa League FFS. If we do this next season then it's worth a discussion.
Well,if you dont feel embarrassed to take the credit of winning runs against the likes of Tranmere, you shouldn't be embarrassed to take the credit for the clean sheets in the respective matches as well.

For the record, I do agree with you that this is embarassing like I have been saying about our winning run as well. Just calling out your hypocrisy here.
 

Ekeke

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17/18 Dea Gea was the difference. Our xGA was 44 goals in the league.

https://understat.com/league/EPL/2017

You can see here how many goals DDG saved us (and his decline in shot-stopping since). He conceded about 12 less than expected in the league that season.


@Ekeke knows all this anyway so I'm not sure why he's trying to create a different narrative.
And thats wrong. Our CBs had more to do that season, thats why you can see from the statistics that they made more defensive actions.

De Gea was better for sure, but our fullbacks were far worse. AWB is like an extra CB, or two, doing so many defensive actions that the CBs dont have to. We also pressed better this season further up the pitch another reason why they had less to do statistically.
 

RUCK4444

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I don’t think it’s as bad as some make out but I would like to see a young talented and fast CB paired with Maguire.

That said I think a top quality rotational option for Matic will help our existing back four imo.
 

bond19821982

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Why on earth are you embarrassed about a factual statistic? I suggest taking pride and joy in accomplishments regardless of what they are, you will have a happier life for it.
The term embarassing is bit OTT but we shouldn't lower our standards. If you continue to play against the likes of EL standard teams (which we had played), we would always have better records.
 

ivaldo

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I don't think we need a new thread for this, I feel embarrassed reading it and don't think we need to discuss about it. I'm one of them who acknowledge the improvement but our defense should be viewed on the league not all comp. We are playing in Europa League FFS. If we do this next season then it's worth a discussion.
It makes for similar reading in the league, too. 9 out of the last 14 games have been clean sheets, and if you remove the individual errors made by DDG that have lead directly to goals this season, we would've conceded the same as Liverpool, that is the lowest in the league, in the most difficult league in the world.
 

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While Shaw was the least for tackles and interceptions, he had double the amount of aerials of everyone else




On the other side of the coin you can see that Young and Valencia provided more assists and goals overall. So while they did less defensive work, they did more going forward. So much for "Mourinho's defensive setup"
 

Classical Mechanic

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And thats wrong. Our CBs had more to do that season, thats why you can see from the statistics that they made more defensive actions.

De Gea was better for sure, but our fullbacks were far worse. AWB is like an extra CB, or two, doing so many defensive actions that the CBs dont have to. We also pressed better this season further up the pitch another reason why they had less to do statistically.
We played a low block, of course the defence are going do more defensive actions! What they're not supposed to do is allow all those chances on the goalkeeper because most keepers are not going to be good enough to bail their defence out.

Mourinho himself was desperate for new centre backs after 17/18. He saw the data too!
 

Andycoleno9

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In PL we have also excellent record. 3rd best defence. 3 goals conceded more than Liverpool. Shows how we fans are spoiled (me included).
Based on comments we need new back 5.
Maguire is slow and waste of money, AWB can't attack, Lindelof is average and weak, Shaw is average and DDG past his best.
 

wolvored

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No.

We had Mourinho last season and a terrible defensive record. Spurs also have a bad defensive record.

Matic was better this season

DDG was worse but they did more defensive work partly because AWB is a powerhouse defender



We even scored 2 more goals that season, 68 instead of 66 and we conceded 8 less goals

Looking at the stats Jones only played roughly half the mins Maguire has this season. Smalling only slightly more. This means the stats are worthless as they were both playing with other players as well.
 

harms

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In PL we have also excellent record. 3rd best defence. 3 goals conceded more than Liverpool. Shows how we fans are spoiled (me included).
Based on comments we need new back 5.
Maguire is slow and waste of money, AWB can't attack, Lindelof is average and weak, Shaw is average and DDG past his best.
It actually shows the opposite. Even the thought of presenting the 3rd best defense in the league as an achievement is unthinkable for any top-club – or a club with a top-club aspirations.

I understand we’ve played in the Europa, but Inter, Arse or Sevilla haven’t achieved this
Inter spent first half of the season (more, actually, since play offs had been rescheduled) in CL, playing 4 games against Messi's Barcelona and Dortmund, who had one of the best attacking units in the world this season. Not sure if Arsenal that finished 8th or Sevilla (who had been better this season, but still) is the standard that I'd want to judge United on.

Our defense is not bad – collectively, as a unit, it's quite good, actually. Still, Lindelöf and Shaw (sadly) are simply decent and nothing more, Wan-Bissaka is great at one-on-one defending but struggles on other phases of play (I'm quite happy with him btw) and Maguire makes too many mistakes for a supposedly top-class center-back (which he isn't. he's good but that's his ceiling). The less said about current De Gea's form, the better. If we want to compete for the league and, hopefully, CL, we need at least 1 world-class player at the back – and we also need to sort out the whole De Gea situation, but it's possible that we already have the answer within our ranks. Add, say, Rio – or Van Dijk, to our back-line and suddenly Maguire's lack of pace and agility is well-covered by his partner and we don't have as many issues in the build-up.
 

Ekeke

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Looking at the stats Jones only played roughly half the mins Maguire has this season. Smalling only slightly more. This means the stats are worthless as they were both playing with other players as well.
They arent, however we can say that Maguire and Lindelof 1) Were first choice all season, which helps them 2) Were more fit and available. Thats one thing thats definitely a plus over Smalling and Jones who didnt tend to play as many matches. Jones had to win his spot from Rojo and Bailly who also played well. We had a collection of the highest rated (statistcally) CBs in the league that season. Because no matter who played, they had plenty of work to do with the rest of the team helping them less.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Well,if you dont feel embarrassed to take the credit of winning runs against the likes of Tranmere, you shouldn't be embarrassed to take the credit for the clean sheets in the respective matches as well.

For the record, I do agree with you that this is embarassing like I have been saying about our winning run as well. Just calling out your hypocrisy here.
The point wasn’t the good run but all the positivities (from player’s improvement, young players development, recruitments, playing style & etc) the manager brought in since the Liverpool game in October, something we tried to tell you but you refused to read them.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Our much-maligned defence, including by myself, have achieved this. I understand we’ve played in the Europa, but Inter, Arse or Sevilla haven’t achieved this, nor have Bayern or PSG in piss easy leagues. We have.

Imo, keep the same back 5 for next season as these guys have proven to be solid, while buying Sancho and Rice. We’ll get 3rd place easy then, and possibly more.

Thoughts?
We should do better than players like Declan Rice.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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It makes for similar reading in the league, too. 9 out of the last 14 games have been clean sheets, and if you remove the individual errors made by DDG that have lead directly to goals this season, we would've conceded the same as Liverpool, that is the lowest in the league, in the most difficult league in the world.
So let’s talk about the league rather than Europe. That’s where the real credit is.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Why on earth are you embarrassed about a factual statistic? I suggest taking pride and joy in accomplishments regardless of what they are, you will have a happier life for it.
I take pride of the clean sheets we made in the league. But I don’t take a pride of the clean sheets we made in Europe. We are in Europa league not champions league. If the current Liverpool or Real Madrid are in Europa league, I’m sure they would get more than us.
 

bond19821982

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The point wasn’t the good run but all the positivities (from player’s improvement, young players development, recruitments, playing style & etc) the manager brought in since the Liverpool game in October, something we tried to tell you but you refused to read them.
This was your very first post when you quoted me on the topic. Remember, we haven't even spoken about anything else at that point of time.

I don't know what's the problem with Tranmere, LASK, Derby & Club Brugge? In those run, we also beat Chelsea & City twice.