Mourinho | 2016/17 Performances

[Cascarino]

Who else do you have that can play there?

I'd imagine Azpilicueta would play there, with Alonso coming in on the left. (If Ivanovic was dropped).

 

[The United]

There're so many managers out there...how can you simplify the decision to be a binary one? Moreover Pep and Jose have a very different understanding of the style of play. I like to think that the board took the strengths and weaknesses of the players into consideration, figuring out that Jose's vision suits them better. I do believe that Pep's decision to take over at City had been made clear for quite some time, so i disagree that United missed out on Pep last minute.

Some players say nasty stuff about Jose, others don't. That's how it is. To be fair, you do have a point there and it's important to take a look at every single message. Yeah, Jose wanted to change things at Chelsea MK1, but i'm having a hunch that it was because he thought that they were stagnating. I don't think he wants to be the center of attention, but that's just me having a hunch.

Furthermore you failed to add this:
Makelele:

Before you said this:

Couldn't be the calling out not be part of his motivational skills?

De Gea stayed put. Last season he was close to joining Madrid, but after Jose was named new manager, he made clear that this time there won't be any drama. For me this means something, perhaps for you not.

At Chelsea, no one really knows what had happened. It could be the case that Eva's case unsettled the dressing room (Hazard felt guilty?), or a problem with Terry (back in 2007 media reported stuff), or just their thinking that they didn't need Jose anymore. Big characters such as Cech and Drogba had left the club, a year ago Lampard...they had fallen off a cliff and everyone was losing their minds. Hazard had problems before with managers (burger), Costa is a piece of work, Fabregas has history of being a backstabber (bad mood at Barca according to media), Oscar celebrated his first goal of the season with a gesture towards the manager on the first day of the season. Sure Jose has to shoulder some of the blame, he's the captain and in the end his 7th minute long rant was out of line just like him talking about 'betrayal' which probably cost him his job.

My point is Chelsea was a unique situation and hopefully he has learned something from it. At Real he also had problems, but they kept winning games. For exampel Varane is still grateful.
Varane:
Most of the Chelsea lads just come across bitter with the lil' dig here and there, at least last season.

As aformentioned, i don't have a problem with him calling out players, as long as it doesn't happen all the time and it's because they really messed up. The fact that he's also admitting his wrong doings from time to time does help, imo. But sure, you don't have to like it, keeping it behind closed doors isn't the worst thing to do, i guess.

Cheers!

What decision to be binary? We going for pep? It was obvious. Jose to united usually came from his camp. All our camp including pep's said we attempted to get him a few times.

Also, jose's camp was leaking shit like how he was losing patient with all the delays then media reported that we contacted pep for the last time to change his mind before he announced to go for city. Both camps denied it which is something in it when they do it usually.

At Chelsea, yes we don't know what happened but it happened. In fact lots of shit happened and jose was middle of it. So he was not without fault.

You said it is fine to criticize players, just not too often well, within a week we lost 3 games and he did it twice. Is it too often enough for you? He even brought something out of city game which was 2 games ago to criticize shaw. I mean really? Like this game is not enough to based on.

He has to admit he did wrong because people are not that idiotic to not see it. But then he went on throwing players under the bus so all we talked about is that. Not so much with his faults at least in the press. As he intended.

 

[Yagami]

I don't have any faith whatsoever in this guy as our manager. Stupid decisions after stupid decisions.

 

[Sb_16]

Few things I've noticed that are wrong in our plan.

1. We are hell bent on crossing the ball but we have no consistent decent crosser never mind an actual winger.
2. We play Rooney in #10, a playmaker position, but his primary and only attacking pass is out to the wide but see no1.
3. We have wide forwards who are best cutting inside but we have no one capable of picking a pass to them.
4. Instead we instruct them to maintain width because of no2, consequently limiting their productivity.
5. Our fullbacks as good as they are defending are inconsistent in attacking.
6. Fullbacks rarely combine with the wide forward. When crossing is the primary plan then wouldn't a partnership between wide players be necessary to increase effectiveness?
7. We also lack solidity in midfield hence would be a reason why fullbacks are instructed to measure their forward runs.
8. We don't have anyone who can control the game.
9. Our front two don't combine at all.
10. A 3 man midfield could help us control games better but I feel we'll not see vast improvement if:

• our attackers are still out of form and instructed to maintain width
• our fullbacks don't improve their crossing since they will be the source of width in the system
• we don't include someone in the middle who can pass between the channels (Carrick, Blind, Herrera)
• we include anyone in the middle who is not competent on the ball

Our directness and pace of passing helped us win the opening games, even though we had no plan then. Most of the players now seem lethargic. Have they lost confidence and the pressure got to them?

 

[Powderfinger]

This is highly speculative. But my guess is that part of Mourinho's problem is that he felt a lot of pressure to try and build a "non-Mourinho" team. Part of this pressure might have been self-applied, wanting to show that he could play attacking football with verve like Guardiola. Part of the pressure might have come from the burden of managing Manchester United with its traditions of swashbuckling attacking play. And part of the pressure might have directly come from Woodward and others telling him that they needed him to make a team of galacticos work.

When you take a step back, two things are pretty clear. First, this is the most "un-Mourinho" midfield ever. The standard question with him is whether he is going to have two very defensively minded midfielders shielding the defense or whether he is going to open up and play at least one CM that is more attack minded. Playing no true defensive midfielders is crazy for him (and, no, Fellaini doesn't count). Second, despite the great mutual respect that Zlatan and Jose clearly have for each other, Ibra is not a typical Mourinho striker. He brings lots of qualities to the table but he also takes a lot off the table tactically. He isn't a good striker for playing on the break due to his lack of pace and his tendency to come back for the ball rather than seek to run behind and he isn't the guy you want to lead a high press when out of possession.

If Mourinho had just Mourinhoed and bought, for example, Kante, another disciplined hard working CM, and Aubameyang instead of Pogba and Zlatan and built a team geared toward high pressing the hell out of everybody on defense, making it very difficult for anybody to get through his central box of two DMs and two CMs, and smashing teams after turnovers and in transition with a front three of Martial-Auba-Rashford (or Mkhi), I think you'd be better off.

 

[Dumbat12]

First, this is the most "un-Mourinho" midfield ever.

Not only the most un-Mourinho midfield, but the whole team is un-Mourinho. Hell, Mourinho is not Mourinho, that's probably Van Gaal wearing Mourinho's mask.

This isn't the same guy that used to drop star players for the heck of it and played systems that get most out of his players, and not just a bunch of individuals on the field playing whatever.

 

[Treble]

I still can't get my head around the fact that Mou has created an absolutely unmobile spin of the team in Fellaini, Rooney and Zlatan. Doesn't make any sense.

 

[Perrick Dubois]

1. We are hell bent on crossing the ball but we have no consistent decent crosser never mind an actual winger.

This is one that has me scratching my head. 6/33 crosses yesterday, 15 of them from outside the area. Christ on a bike can somebody please run at their man, force the opposition off the wing and force a CB to cover so a man can be freed up and look at the guy and pass to him. Just humping the ball all game at the keeper or to the back stick. Valencia just cannoning the ball into the defender a couple of times from deep. Horrible stuff really, a massive massive part of our problem.

Pogba and Rooney made the run to the edge of the area at least 5 times each for a simple cutback and were ignored for a banger into the mixer. So frustrating.

 

[Varun]

Looks like he's already thrown Luke Shaw under the bus.



http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-boss-jose-mourinho-8864616#rlabs=8 rt$sitewide p$4

The guy in the City game was Mkhi. I don't necessarily see it as throwing someone under the bus, he's just pointing out mistakes and saying we'll learn how to cut them out with time.

 

[Bojan11]

So when a manager calls a player out for a mistake it's throwing under the bus.

Were you saying the same when Koeman was doing it to Barkley last week?

 

[The United]

So when a manager calls a player out for a mistake it's throwing under the bus.

Were you saying the same when Koeman was doing it to Barkley last week?

Who the heck cares with koeman and everton?

And who the hell is koeman anyway?

 

[Bojan11]

Who the heck cares with koeman and everton?

And who the hell is koeman anyway?

Why respond if you don't care dummy?

Fact is if a player makes a mistake then the manager has the right to call him out especially if it's the second mistake he's made in as many games. People making out like Jose is the only manager in the world who calls out players mistakes.

 

[Wumminator]

Why respond if you don't care dummy?

Fact is if a player makes a mistake then the manager has the right to call him out especially if it's the second mistake he's made in as many games. People making out like Jose is the only manager in the world who calls out players mistakes.

If we lose a game there is literally nothing that a manager can say or do that won't wind up some fans.

 

[The United]

Why respond if you don't care dummy?

Fact is if a player makes a mistake then the manager has the right to call him out especially if it's the second mistake he's made in as many games. People making out like Jose is the only manager in the world who calls out players mistakes.

Because you brought it up like it is relevant to us?

Also saying it out in public will help because the manager does not meet their players at all till next match? Jose is not the only manager who calls out players mistakes. But Successful managers hardly do it, let alone twice in a week.

Oh, before you come back with jose being successful. Well that's my point too. When he was, he hardly did it if at all. He was known to talk bs around just to shield his players performance back then.

Was famous for it, if you remember.

 

[ReDDHDevilS]

So when a manager calls a player out for a mistake it's throwing under the bus.

Were you saying the same when Koeman was doing it to Barkley last week?

But the two situations aren't same though, are they?

Firstly, Eventon won the game. We on the other hand, lost the game and Jose partly blamed the loss on Shaw.
Secondly, Barkley was subbed off at half time which resulted in Koeman getting asked about the decision to which he only responded. Jose in contrast was talking about why the last 3 results have gone against him. He blamed, 1) Referee 2) Lady luck and 3) Shaw and Mkhi and only after then he blamed himself. It's like slapping someone in the face and then telling him sorry it's my mistake too!

Negativity breeds negativity. We've lost 3 games on the bounce. The mode is already negative and there was no need to make it any worse by singling out players. If he thinks Shaw and Mkhi were at fault, fine just tell them behind closed doors. Was it really necessary to do it in public?

 

[The United]

But the two situations aren't same though, are they?

Firstly, Eventon won the game. We on the other hand, lost the game and Jose partly blamed the loss on Shaw.
Secondly, Barkley was subbed off at half time which resulted in Koeman getting asked about the decision to which he only responded. Jose in contrast was talking about why the last 3 results have gone against him. He blamed, 1) Referee 2) Lady luck and 3) Shaw and Mkhi and only after then he blamed himself. It's like slapping someone in the face and then telling him sorry it's my mistake too!

Negativity breeds negativity. We've lost 3 games on the bounce. The mode is already negative and there was no need to make it any worse by singling out players. If he thinks Shaw and Mkhi were at fault, fine just tell them behind closed doors. Was it really necessary to do it in public?

So he talked about mkhi losing the city game after a week?! I hope there is some acceptable context to bring that shit up....If not, just lol.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

What decision to be binary? We going for pep? It was obvious. Jose to united usually came from his camp. All our camp including pep's said we attempted to get him a few times.

Also, jose's camp was leaking shit like how he was losing patient with all the delays then media reported that we contacted pep for the last time to change his mind before he announced to go for city. Both camps denied it which is something in it when they do it usually.

At Chelsea, yes we don't know what happened but it happened. In fact lots of shit happened and jose was middle of it. So he was not without fault.

You said it is fine to criticize players, just not too often well, within a week we lost 3 games and he did it twice. Is it too often enough for you? He even brought something out of city game which was 2 games ago to criticize shaw. I mean really? Like this game is not enough to based on.

He has to admit he did wrong because people are not that idiotic to not see it. But then he went on throwing players under the bus so all we talked about is that. Not so much with his faults at least in the press. As he intended.

I lost you at binary. This is a game and it's not on your laptop.

 

[K2K]

I see he is now actively blaming the players in public, seems he learnt nothing from the Chelsea episode. What a pity.

 

[jojose]

He's fallen into the same trap as the other two.

"Wayne Rooney will never play centre midfield".

5 games in and Wayne Rooney is playing centre midfield. Any manager who continues to play Wayne Rooney any longer is quite frankly incompetent.

 

[togg]

It's a little worrying that we are relying on a 35 and 18 year old to get us the goals this season and might well be relying on a 35 year old midfielder (Carrick) to stabalise the midfield. Something isn't quite right there!

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

"The players are not coping with pressure".
"I cannot influence referee's mistakes".

He's singing excuses like a canary. How about the fact that he couldn't get the formation right after 4 preseason games and 6 games into the season? How about him including players solely on the basis of past pedigree, who are clearly not upto the standard? How about failing to find the ideal positions for 3 of the most talented young players in Europe? I mean why play Rashford, a striker on the left wing, Martial, a left forward on the right wing and Pogba, an attacking midfielder in defensive midfield?

But lets ignore all his failings and throw the left back who's making a long term recovery from an injury under the bus.

 

[The United]

It is amazing, isnt it?

And, people try to sugarcoat it like it is a good thing, which is more amazing.

The most amazing thing is that it came from 'the best manager' in the world.

I wouldn't care too much if it was moyes.

 

[itso 7]

I've been waiting for someone to drop Rooney after poor perfomances for years.It ain't happening.

Jose can be quite stubborn and sticks to loyal players rather than cutting them lose.

Rooney himself sees no problem with his perfomances. His manager doesn't. I expect him to start our next league game.You should too.

Do you actually think that Jose will allow Rooney to cost him his job, this job that he has waited three years for? Jose might be stubborn but he is no fool...

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Do you actually think that Jose will allow Rooney to cost him his job, this job that he has waited three years for? Jose might be stubborn but he is no fool...

He's been a fool so far for relying on Rooney.

 

[itso 7]

He's been a fool so far for relying on Rooney.

So far he can cover himself by claiming he was trying to play Rooney into form but with results threatening to make an ugly turn he is at risk of ending October as a dead man walking. He is already at a crossroads where he has to choose between Rooney and staying in a job, I don't believe he will persist with Rooney for much longer.

 

[K2K]

Do you actually think that Jose will allow Rooney to cost him his job, this job that he has waited three years for? Jose might be stubborn but he is no fool...

He did exactly the same with Ivanovic.

He was in even worse form than Rooney and it ended up costing him his job.I don't think it's him him being a fool...rather it's blind faith.

 

[Treble]

What are the main hypotheses at play about his future?

The first is that he will recover from this slump and will make United finsih in the top 4, even challenge for the title - if not this season, then the next. His stint at Real is a reference point. He started slowly, lost 5:0 from Pep's Barcelona but managed to build a good side that won the title in the next season. That's the good hypothesis.

The bad one is that we are witnessing the continuation of his second stint at Chelsea: disorganisation, low fitness levels, lack of spirit in the team.

The third, not-so-bad hypothesis is that he is a bit over the hill but will still manage to get us in the top 4 without being able to make us a proper contender for the title or the CL, even next season.

If we lose from both Chelsea and Liverpool in October without showing clear signs of improvement, things will point towards (2). If we manage to paly well and get good results, then (1). Good performances, even without good results, would suggest maybe (3).

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He did exactly the same with Ivanovic.

He was in even worse form than Rooney and it ended up costing him his job.I don't think it's him him being a fool...rather it's blind faith.

Hardly blind faith seeing as his successor is also picking Ivanovic.

 

[rotherham_red]

He's destroyed the team's confidence in a matter of weeks. Fair enough we lose City, but the reaction has been appalling. He banishes Blind after a poor display despite him and Bailly having a decent partnership and is nowhere to be seen today. Smalling comes in and looks terrible with Bailly as most expected being similar players. Confidence ruined. Martial's confidence looks at an all-time low, not helped by being continually subbed every game. Mkhitaryan doesn't play for the first few games, gets injured on international duty then proceeds to start against City (with Mata being dropped despite playing the first few games) despite being unfit. Has a mare. His confidence will also be shot. Then there's the likes of Depay, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Darmian who will already be low on confidence, nothing has changed there - and in the case of Schweinsteiger banished from the squad completely. You move on to Pogba who looks a shadow of his best self, Mourinho has no idea what to do with him. Finally there's Rooney, who somehow despite all this chopping and changes and seemingly no clue what to do with the side, manages to remain in the first team while looking like a pub player.

Overall I am not confident at all that we can turn this around from here and we look like Chelsea did last year.

If our players are that sensitive to being dropped after subpar performances, then I think you should be focusing your ire on them.

Three different managers now are coming across the same issues with the same players being played no matter what. Sure some of the blame goes on the manager for picking them, but the lion's share is on the players. They are the common denominators here and they seem to always get the free pass.

 

[K2K]

Hardly blind faith seeing as his successor is also picking Ivanovic.

On last seasons performances, it was really blind faith.

At times, Ivanovic himself looked like a player desperately in need to be put out of his misery. That happened when he got injured for a few weeks, but when he regained fitness, he was straight back into the team, and the poor perfomances continued. Jose refused to play Baba Rahman that they had signed that Summer.

That worries me, that insistence on sticking with players whose confidence is absolutely shot. Sometimes you need to hook the player out of the firing line.

 

[Lurpak99]

If our players are that sensitive to being dropped after subpar performances, then I think you should be focusing your ire on them.

Three different managers now are coming across the same issues with the same players being played no matter what. Sure some of the blame goes on the manager for picking them, but the lion's share is on the players. They are the common denominators here and they seem to always get the free pass.

Well the manager can buy new players, he can drop players etc., so in the end it's always on the manager.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

On last seasons performances, it was really blind faith.

At times, Ivanovic himself looked like a player desperately in need to be put out of his misery. That happened when he got injured for a few weeks, but when he regained fitness, he was straight back into the team, and the poor perfomances continued. Jose refused to play Baba Rahman that they had signed that Summer.

That worries me, that insistence on sticking with players whose confidence is absolutely shot. Sometimes you need to hook the player out of the firing line.

It's a balancing act. Stick with a player and hope your show of faith gives them back their self-belief. Drop them and shatter their confidence completely. Managing under-performing players is difficult but you don't win as much as Mourinho has without having a better idea about how to get that balance right than you or I, that's for sure.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Well the manager can buy new players, he can drop players etc., so in the end it's always on the manager.

Agreed. You can't isolate the players performance from the manager's. The buck always stops with the bloke in charge.

 

[VeevaVee]

3 tough games coming up against teams that'll be up for it after once again seeing we're there for the taking.
Before that, one game that could really damage our confidence/pride. Gotta get this right, Jose.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

A quite staggering statistic, after 5 games Liverpool have run an average of 11 Km's a game further than Manchester United!

Interestingly Manchester City & Spurs, 2 other teams who have started well are just behind Liverpool's numbers whilst United have covered the least amount of ground in the league.

 

[izec]

A quite staggering statistic, after 5 games Liverpool have run an average of 11 Km's a game further than Manchester United!

Interestingly Manchester City & Spurs, 2 other teams who have started well are just behind Liverpool's numbers whilst United have covered the least amount of ground in the league.

No surprise if you watch our games. Zero pressing and movement.

 

[f_to_z]

There is still a big problem with the team which is obvious. It is not only certain players not playing well. It is not only about the right formation. It is not only about Rooney. After watching United lose the last three games in a row I can surely see the the problem is much bigger.

I can see a team with no fighting spirit. I can see many mistakes in passing, movement, and even first touches which should be the basics of any football team yet alone a team full of big names. I can see a team playing as individuals no teamwork at all. I can see a team mentally fragile and going down 1-0 shatters their confidence as if its made from glass. I can see a team with no flexibility as to change a formation and instructions if things are not working well. I can see players playing with scared faces with no bravery what so ever.

Therefore I can say again the issue is a lot bigger than we are imagining. Can it be solved of course yes but it will need a comprehensive look at the issues and not just changing first team players here and there.

I hope Mourinho stops blaming players publicly. He needs to protect the players in the press conference and media but give them the hair dryer in the dressing room.

 

[The-Natural]

He talks about the players struggling to handle the 'pressure' when really it is he who has struggled to do so the most over the last week and it is he who has created this mini crisis through that shocking name and shame session he delivered after the derby and now after Watford.

City look easily the best team in the league this season and losing to them is no great shame at this moment in time (our performance was horribly disjointed certainly but actually quite spirited) but instead of using it as an opportunity to see what changes need to be made his pride/ego takes over and he throws the players under a bus thus undermining their confidence and putting more 'pressure' on their shoulders than there needed to be.

Rule number 1 in the Manager's Handbook is avoid criticising your player in public unless totally and utterly necessary. Not least a young player still finding his feet in the first team, not least a foreign player in his first year in England (who was rushed back from injury!), not least one of your best players so far this season who has just come back form a career-threatening injury, and not least after 5 FCKING GAMES.

The leopard has not changed his spots and defeat to Pep still clearly causes him to lose all sense to the point where he has potentially lost the dressing room in September.

Other than that he is yet to make the big decisions required to sort out the first 11. Still playing a system that doesn't suit the players to shoehorn underperforming big names in and still seeing good players sitting on the bench not getting a fair chance.

I'll possibly get dogs abuse for being so pessimistic but I am just in shock at how much he has let the derby defeat cause such unnecessary tension.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

How can he expect us to win a game when we sit deep all the time and we have no great passing players in the team to build from the back.

Horrible tactics from Mourinho so far.

 

[Escobar]

How can he expect us to win a game when we sit deep all the time and we have no great passing players in the team to build from the back.

Horrible tactics from Mourinho so far.

Jose got his tactics and formation wrong too many times. It started quiet well, he said the right things, but now the honeymoon period is over. There is still no pace, movement or clear game plan and it shows. He needs to make big decisions now otherwise we stay as poor as we were in the last 3 years