You lot are obsessed with stats. Watch a game and make up your mind, don't count key passes and dispossesions as inspired by a Moneyball movie that's inspired by a completely different sport. Football isn't science.
Moussa Dembele
- Thread starter The Neviller
- Start date
No, but I was simply doing Ekeke's stats obsessed work for him.
Anyone watching can see that Dembele's not great when he has to decide who to pass it to, but that's he's got good drive and is a strong physical presence.
Anyone watching can see that Dembele's not great when he has to decide who to pass it to, but that's he's got good drive and is a strong physical presence.
He doesn't make as many tackles, that's fair to say. Everything else he does is basically the same though so there'd be no reason for us to go out and spend 3x the amount on him in a couple of years. He's not that good, and he won't offer a particularly different option. We should be looking at players that we can bring in to complement Cleverley, Powell, Anderson and the rest, and in that sense he just doesn't fit. Playing two of them together would still leave us with a big midfield issue. I'm not even sure if he's a better player than Sandro anyway.
Honestly, if I had to choose between Dembele and Yaya Toure today, I'd take Dembele every day of the week. A year in our midfield and he'll grow and get the global recognition he deserves.
I genuinely wonder why we didn't snap this player up.
Really bizarre not to as the funds were clearly there to be spent and he hardly broke the bank for Spurs. Sometimes we do make some odd decisions in the transfer market.
Really bizarre not to as the funds were clearly there to be spent and he hardly broke the bank for Spurs. Sometimes we do make some odd decisions in the transfer market.
They paid £15m for him. It's a lot of money for a player who was only had about twenty months in midfield in his career.
Is this stat agreeing that he wouldn't be a significant upgrade on Anderson?
Are you agreeing that he wouldn't be a significant upgrade on Cleverley?
When Anderson can put a decent half season together to go with the talent he clearly has then I may agree. Until then I remain a sceptic.
But Dembele went from a mid table PL side to a better, but not top, PL side for a reasonable price - which now looks a steal.
Looks like a decent sum for a player who seems to have the ability to repalce Modric - as well as being able to tackle back a bit. Great bit of business by Spurs while we were caught napping.
Makes you wonder what Spurs saw that other sides didn't.
I reckon you're grossly overstating how good he is because of the media hype and after 12 months of him being here you'd be doubting Dembele in the same way you're doubting Anderson now. Just my view but the hype after his game against us was mental. That Craig Burley or whatever you call him felt the need to constantly remind everyone what a top player Dembele is every 5 minutes, as if he was this newly discovered gem of a player...certainly amusing. He does loads of fancy, pointless turns and is nice to watch but on the ball his contribution isn't really all that. Anderson is a significantly more progressive, aggressive passer while Dembele dallies about 20 yards out after another one of his impressive dribbles before passing it sideways, completely killing the momentum. His physique's impressive though, no doubt. I reckon he'll stay at Spurs for quite a while though and it might just be his level. To think that we somehow didn't quite see what Dembele's all about is laughable in my view given he wouldn't have went to Spurs for £15m if it wasn't for his performance v us.
Hes not a bad player, and could probably play a role here but he's certinaly not the saviour of our midfield or the final piece of a jigsaw.
A good summation, given his versatility, Carrick's age, proven in the PL(neither Clev or Anderson are this), having a bargaining chip in Berba, it was without doubt a mistake not to pick him up.
If Anderson can put together a full season it will marginalise the need for Dembele, but why not have both, with only two CM under 30 it must surely have crossed the manager's mind.
I'm a massive fan of Dembele. And I think some people are underestimating his contribution a little. Sure, he's not the kind of midfielder to play killer balls to strikers but he has two ridiculously good attributes: dribbling and he is ridiculously difficult to get off the ball. His ability to carry the ball from back to front is invaluable, much like Anderson. And he's also very good defensively. Put him in a team like City or United where the attacking players are so creative and you'll see how useful he can be. Players who tackle and recycle the ball well, and can drive it (again, like Anderson) are very useful.
It's also important to remember this is his first full season playing as a central midfielder so he's still improving. Is he better than Anderson? I don't think so. Anderson has a bit more to his game in terms of passing and in every other sense they are almost identical so I think Anderson just shades it.
It's also important to remember this is his first full season playing as a central midfielder so he's still improving. Is he better than Anderson? I don't think so. Anderson has a bit more to his game in terms of passing and in every other sense they are almost identical so I think Anderson just shades it.
I'm not sure he is either, but then Sandro is quality and all those people who feel we need a more defensive minded midfielder should be looking no further than him. Also I dont think we need to buy Dembele either, just trying to give him the respect he deserves.
Just displaying a fact. There's merit in saying he loses the ball more than Anderson but its a minimal difference.
Scary how much we rely on Dembele already. We've won almost all the games he's played in and lost almost all the ones he has been absent for. We've had other injuries for sure but until Huddlestone regains fitness (and still not really close) or Carroll steps up, we don't have anyone in the squad who comes close to offering what he does.
Agreed - but we seem not to have the money for a player from the next level up, so for me, he would have been a good investment and improved the first team.
Based on what? Managers don't buy players based on one game. Spurs will have wathed him for ages before spending, what is for them, a considerable sum.
I've wacthed the player - he's impressed me every time I've seen him play - its that simple. Against United, at Old Trafford he was excellent, very few players are. He was physical and dominated the midfield battle. While playing for an at best average PL side.
Complicate this all you like with your speculation about how good Anderson "can be" or "will be" or "could be" - I might agree if and when Anderson actually looks like he'll have a season where he call nail down a first team place and fulfill some of his potential - which despite being at one of the best clubs on the planet, and playing with world class players he so far doesn't look like fulfilling.
Demeble would not have been the saviour, and that's now what I'm suggesting. But he's a player who went for a decent sum, and looks very much like he'll be a key player for a side chasing the top 4.
Given we lack a player with a physical edge which he seems to have I think he would have been a good fit. And I don't see that just because we have Anderson on the books he wouldn't have gotten plenty of games.
Better than pay 18m for a player who was an attacking midfielder, and slowly turn him into a CM?
This. We had tools, and full conditions of at least fight for the player, proven in PL, starter in a very bright Belgium national team, and clear talent that not only showed that against us, but in the most needed area we got.
15m was more than a reasonable price.
Coincides with my point that he wouldn't be a significant upgrade on Anderson.
Unless Fulham got interested in Berbatov only after Dembélé was already sold to Spurs.
I think that 'good Anderson' is at a similar level to Dembele, the question is how often does good Anderson come out to play.
75% - Tottenham's PL win percentage with Moussa Dembélé playing this season compared to 14% without him. Integral. -- OptaJoe (@OptaJoe)
Nuff said. Still dont understand why didnt we fork out 10 mil to get this guy.
Nuff said. Still dont understand why didnt we fork out 10 mil to get this guy.
Nor me, would have been perfect 
That stat is probably more down to their lack of options without him than his quality as a player.
He's ridiculously strong. Can't get the ball off him. He just glides over the pitch. Cannot believe we let him go to Spurs for 15m. feck me.
Wasn't it 12m?
Either way, he would have been a step in the right direction and what we needed. Fergie obviously didn't think so.
He's brilliant, would prefer Sandro though.
I am not really interested in speculating any more on which midfielder blah blah! the bottom line is for a top club, our midfield is relatively poor. 2 40 year olds and a player with a debilitating disease. Leaving the mostly unproven Cleverley and the injury prone although promising anderson. Only Carrick is regular, proven and not past his best.
How any reasonable mind can look at those options and feel they are sufficient for any top club to seriously challenge on all fronts is beyond me.
So yes both Sandro and Dembele would improve us significantly, by simply being better options than what we have, not because they are world class.
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That is the biggest disappointment of all in my view. Now even only good players would be sufficient to improve us, and that says it all really.
How any reasonable mind can look at those options and feel they are sufficient for any top club to seriously challenge on all fronts is beyond me.
So yes both Sandro and Dembele would improve us significantly, by simply being better options than what we have, not because they are world class.
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That is the biggest disappointment of all in my view. Now even only good players would be sufficient to improve us, and that says it all really.
I suppose a reasonable mind could point out we're 7 points clear in a very difficult league of teams with fantastic midfields, we're scoring quite a lot of goals, it's seems to be our defense that is the weakest link thus far and have Vidic coming back, and we also won our CL group stage. How many sides in Europe can boast our success? Real Madrid will be a massive test to see if we're ready, and it's very reasonable to think we will beat them.
He's so atypical for a central midfielder, the guy is better at dribbling than most wingers and strikers.Beautiful how he glides past players
I didn't think there were any of you left, you must be the last of a dying breed.
or-wait for it- that him being such a good player helps Spurs win games.
I know shocking stuff.
FFS, we're Manchester United. Winning the group shouldn't really be seen as some type of achievement. Yes it's great but it means little if we dont progress far in the competition.
We haven't won anything yet this season and we only have 3 CL trophies to boast about. Compare that to other European sides and for the quality we've had over the years, it's quite underwhelming.
Just because we're in a good position right now shouldnt mean we ignore the issues in the team. A 7 point lead can be cut down quickly so whilst we feel good about it now, it may not last very long. That being said, I think we have a good chance of walking the league.
We've currently got 7 CM. Carrick whose great, Ando whose meah, Powell and Cleverley who showed ample promise and then Fletch, Giggs and Scholes. Under such circumstances no wonder why SAF hasn't added any top quality CM. In my opinion SAF had been too emotional in his judgement. 1-2 of the old guys should have been allowed to go.
Ando isn't meah, he's just broken
He also doesnt do much when we dont have the ball.
Watched quite a bit of Dembele this season for Spurs. I have alot of respect for him but it's debatable whether he is even better than Sandro. Parker is back now and it will be interesting to see who will make way if any at all. Sandro contributes in a far better way for two fairly limited creative players in a 4-4-2. I had my doubts when we passed on Dembele, but i think we can pick up a player for a similar amount and one that is far better at passing the ball. Cleverley is better than him, but not for facing Madrid, and that is where we need a slightly more defensive option for a big game. I really think people rate him for the idea of what he can do rather than what he actually ends up producing.
What do you mean even better than Sandro? Sandro is the best DM in the league. And if the group of posters who have been saying we need a DM or another option to Carrick are right then he's nailed on as the man we should be looking at. Dembele is also important and with a new manager its very likely Parker will not be the first team starter he was previously.
The combination of Sandro and Dembele is arguably the best CM combination in the league. The only reason people overlook that is because its strength is defensively and ball winning where Sandro and Dembele are Spurs top 2 tacklers and Sandro is top intercepter with Dembele at 5th in the team.
The combination of Sandro and Dembele is arguably the best CM combination in the league. The only reason people overlook that is because its strength is defensively and ball winning where Sandro and Dembele are Spurs top 2 tacklers and Sandro is top intercepter with Dembele at 5th in the team.