Moyes So Far!

[amolbhatia50k]

Given his first example didn't support the argument I'm sure the others won't either.

 

[Bestie07]

So how exactly have we done a favor to everyone FC in that case ? They owe us feck all. Going by your take, Gibson owes us not Everton.

Where exactly did I say that we did Everton a favor? I meant to say exactly what you have taken from my post, we did a favor to our player. We let him goto a club which best suited his career interests even though it meant us taking a little hit financially, even though the deal may or may not have been good enough for us. That is the point I was disagreeing with, not the clubs owing each other business.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Where exactly did I say that we did Everton a favor? I meant to say exactly what you have taken from my post, we did a favor to our player. We let him goto a club which best suited his career interests even though it meant us taking a little hit financially, even though the deal may or may not have been good enough for us. That is the point I was disagreeing with, not the clubs owing each other business.

Ah fair enough then. My initial disagreement with devilish was on this odd notion that Everton should be grateful to us so I though you were correlating to that.

 

[devilish]

Neville - SAF was ready to let him go and I think the club was willing to allow Neville to find the best possible club for himself, if anything, we did him a favor. Not that I think that wording is accurate.
We also allowed John O'Shea to leave for peanuts when we could have utilized him still, and I think part of that is acknowledgement of years of service and loyalty.

Gibson, speaking for myself, I would have free transferred had that ensured he wouldn't be used as any excuse to not sign midfield players or play Pogba. I'd say, quite honestly, Everton did us a favor there, if anyone was helping anyone out.

Howard: after the terrible history of trying to replace Schmeichel we thought we'd finally done so given Howard's impressive first few games at the club. Then he became prone to mistakes. In truth, Everton got a keeper we had lost faith in and lucked out in that he regained his confidence and perhaps found his true level.

We've not done them any favors, and whoever mentioned the price we paid for Rooney, I mean, come on, if that's not a fair deal for us I don't know what is. Maybe it's a tad strange that they're peeved off with not getting anything for DM but I think they were totally within their rights to have us pay through the nose for Fellaini seeing as we clearly had a clownish operation this summer in the transfer market. Good deal for them. Hopefully, it will prove to be a good deal for us too, though of course, it's laughable that DM could have signed him for less weeks ago

You may not notice but we had 3 players leaving Everton at around the same period. Same thing happened at Sunderland a few years back. You may no be used to other leagues but I assure you that relationships between clubs do occur. Juventus for example used to have a good relationship with Parma. Milan had the same thing with Monza. You'll have a manager/owners at a big club whose got a soft spot for another manager/staff/mentality of another club and he'll rather see his ex players go to that club then somewhere else. Its how football works and its usually two way. For example when Juventus wanted Buffon and Thuram, Parma did their outmost to tip the balance to their side.

I hope that this summer had proved to be food for thought for many people at OT and this include our relationship with Everton. After all blues had never done us any favors. They always asked top dollar for each player we asked for and when they had the opportunity to demand ridiculous money for a player we needed desperatel they did. Mind you, its all within their rights to do so. However it also within our rights not to sell players to them on cheap and to guide players to clubs who appreceate more our friendship. For example do we ever sell players to Liverpool? Same thing can be done for Everton. Believe me, such strategy would definitely hurt clubs with small budgets like Everton especially since it tend to strengthen the position of their direct rivals.

 

[Mersault]

@devilish

I get your point mate, of course there are clubs that have better relationships than others. But ours, if it ever was, was built on the rapport SAF had with Moyes, now we've taken Moyes and SAF's gone up stairs, the foundations for that relationship are no longer in place.

I also do not begrudge them for squeezing what they could out of us for Fellaini. We'd made stupid bids for the pair of them earlier in the summer when we could have just met his release clause. The blame lies entirely with Moyes and Woodward. It's not like they got Fellaini on the cheap themselves.

Since you mentioned them, this is out of context but I've often thought about it - that team Parma had, the quality players that passed through their team, Amoroso (when he was great), Veron, Cannavaro, Thuram, Buffon...people talk about West Ham and how good they'd have been (years ago) had they been able to keep their players, imagine Parma...

 

[devilish]

@devilish

I get your point mate, of course there are clubs that have better relationships than others. But ours, if it ever was, was built on the rapport SAF had with Moyes, now we've taken Moyes and SAF's gone up stairs, the foundations for that relationship are no longer in place.

I also do not begrudge them for squeezing what they could out of us for Fellaini. We'd made stupid bids for the pair of them earlier in the summer when we could have just met his release clause. The blame lies entirely with Moyes and Woodward. It's not like they got Fellaini on the cheap themselves.

Since you mentioned them, this is out of context but I've often thought about it - that team Parma had, the quality players that passed through their team, Amoroso (when he was great), Veron, Cannavaro, Thuram, Buffon...people talk about West Ham and how good they'd have been (years ago) had they been able to keep their players, imagine Parma...

I have criticized our summer transfers strategies in numerous occasions. No big club should look desperate as we do, with a player who had a minimum release clause especially if the player in question is someone of the level of Fellaini (which lets face it he is not a Fabregas or Thiago let alone a unique talent such as Scholes). However that's not the point. Friendship are mutual and I hope that Everton will learn that next time they bid for a player on ours for cheap.

I loved Parma. I went there and believe me they are a ridiculously small regional club. However through hardwork, great scouts and youth coaches and the brilliance of people such as Arrigo Sacchi they were able to shape a great side for their own. They were the first club in Italy to actually rely on youths (irrespective if they were theirs or not) and to make profit. Its such a shame that all that hard work was ruined by the Parmalat scandal (a company totally unrelated from football but it owned the club) who dragged Parma to the brink of oblivion. To the think that the owners were able to put such shit and get away from it lightly makes me furious.

 

[Sky1981]

You may not notice but we had 3 players leaving Everton at around the same period. Same thing happened at Sunderland a few years back. You may no be used to other leagues but I assure you that relationships between clubs do occur. Juventus for example used to have a good relationship with Parma. Milan had the same thing with Monza. You'll have a manager/owners at a big club whose got a soft spot for another manager/staff/mentality of another club and he'll rather see his ex players go to that club then somewhere else. Its how football works and its usually two way. For example when Juventus wanted Buffon and Thuram, Parma did their outmost to tip the balance to their side.

I hope that this summer had proved to be food for thought for many people at OT and this include our relationship with Everton. After all blues had never done us any favors. They always asked top dollar for each player we asked for and when they had the opportunity to demand ridiculous money for a player we needed desperatel they did. Mind you, its all within their rights to do so. However it also within our rights not to sell players to them on cheap and to guide players to clubs who appreceate more our friendship. For example do we ever sell players to Liverpool? Same thing can be done for Everton. Believe me, such strategy would definitely hurt clubs with small budgets like Everton especially since it tend to strengthen the position of their direct rivals.

That is funny, they are Everton, we are Manchester United.

If we need any player from them, it'll probably be their best player (it makes sense considering where we are so far), and off course they demand top dollar for their star player. In respect to them wanting our player, it'll be 10 out of 10 vice versa, they'll probably will eye our out of favor players (for whatever reasons, sentimentil or purely footballing perspectives) and rightly so the price reflects the situation.

Looking back , it wasn't such a bad deal. Let's face it, Neville and O'shea was never rated outside United (at least not that high), they are loyal, and at best utility player, and its not like they still have potential, they're past their peak (even if they will still perform considerably well)

I think its too naive to think that friendship in club exists, it'll be about business as ussual wherever we go, as cynic as it sounds.

The only favor we have is probably some kind of courtesy in paperwork, and probably more friendly haggling processes, but at the end of the day, money knows no friend or foe.

 

[devilish]

That is funny, they are Everton, we are Manchester United.

If we need any player from them, it'll probably be their best player (it makes sense considering where we are so far), and off course they demand top dollar for their star player. In respect to them wanting our player, it'll be 10 out of 10 vice versa, they'll probably will eye our out of favor players (for whatever reasons, sentimentil or purely footballing perspectives) and rightly so the price reflects the situation.

Looking back , it wasn't such a bad deal. Let's face it, Neville and O'shea was never rated outside United (at least not that high), they are loyal, and at best utility player, and its not like they still have potential, they're past their peak (even if they will still perform considerably well)

I think its too naive to think that friendship in club exists, it'll be about business as ussual wherever we go, as cynic as it sounds.

The only favor we have is probably some kind of courtesy in paperwork, and probably more friendly haggling processes, but at the end of the day, money knows no friend or foe.

No one would expect Everton not to make clear profit out of Fellaini and Rooney. However I believe that Fellaini is not worth 27m and that Everton has exploited our (and the player's) desperation by doing their outmost to pinch every possible penny out of the deal. Mind you, they have all the rights to do so. However we also have the right to sell players to any club we want and ask any fee for our players. Manchester United have a big influence on our former players careers especially if they have been at the club for quite some time and would love to return to the club as coaches/pundits/ambassadors once their career is over.


If you read my old posts you'll notice that I am not the kind to fall in love with players especially those who lack the talent to be first teamers. However I acknowledge the importance of players like OShea and P Nev especially for smaller clubs. In O'Shea/P Nev you'll have an experienced CL tested player whose quite versatile and has great leadership skills. Considering that these clubs would never ever play in the CL then such experience is particularly valuable. Add to the fact that these players are probably sold at knock down prices then you've got a bargain which you simply cannot refuse.

 

[Amir]

Kendall predicted years ago that Moyes would succeed Sir Alex Ferguson at United but he was disappointed with the manner of his departure.
“He had 11 years at Everton and while he didn’t leave them with a bad team, he left them with nothing in terms of his contract,” said Kendall.
“Maybe, when his contract was running down, he could have signed for another 12 months with a buy-out clause.
“That buy-out clause, which United would have had to meet, would then have been a tribute to Everton Football Club.
“Evertonians wanted Liverpool to win against Manchester United last Sunday – that’s a first. I can’t remember that happening before.
“And that’s because they were disappointed at the way Moyes left the club. I know how they feel, because I mix with them and I speak at dinners which they attend and they tell me what they think.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...prove-Manchester-United-blasts-Howard-Kendall

This is just absurd. Moyes should have signed a new contract just to make sure Everton got something fom him? How about 11 years of terrific service (yes, I know he was paid for it) after a period when they were battling against relegation? He 'didn't leave them with a bad team'? He left them with a GOOD team, which should be worth far more than a couple of million in compensation.

I really don't get it. When he met Fergie at the end of April, Moyes was still intent on staying at Everton. What was he supposed to do then? Tell Fergie 'Fine, I'll join United, but I'll sign a new contract at Everton first so you'll have to pay them'? Seriously? Sometimes I'm amazed by football people and expectations they have from others. Expectations they never would have met by themselves, of course.

Regarding Everton and transfers, I certainly don't expect any favours from any club. It doesn't matter what or who we've given them - they'll want the most they can get when they have to sell their players. That's fine. It's just the way they went about it, being 'insulted' and stuff. Give me a break.

 

[Sky1981]

No one would expect Everton not to make clear profit out of Fellaini and Rooney. However I believe that Fellaini is not worth 27m and that Everton has exploited our (and the player's) desperation by doing their outmost to pinch every possible penny out of the deal. Mind you, they have all the rights to do so. However we also have the right to sell players to any club we want and ask any fee for our players. Manchester United have a big influence on our former players careers especially if they have been at the club for quite some time and would love to return to the club as coaches/pundits/ambassadors once their career is over.


If you read my old posts you'll notice that I am not the kind to fall in love with players especially those who lack the talent to be first teamers. However I acknowledge the importance of players like OShea and P Nev especially for smaller clubs. In O'Shea/P Nev you'll have an experienced CL tested player whose quite versatile and has great leadership skills. Considering that these clubs would never ever play in the CL then such experience is particularly valuable. Add to the fact that these players are probably sold at knock down prices then you've got a bargain which you simply cannot refuse.

We are the victim of our stupidity, and no amount of friendship would reject 10M more profit.

It is a lot of money for Everton, and to be fair, that is just what is expected.

We would have done the same with Ronaldo, infact we did the same. You can argue we're not on a friendly term with Madrid, but business is business it is that simple.

Besides, we wouldn't know, probably there are no other takers for T-Ho, and they are the one doing us a favor taking him off our wages.

 

[Nate Dogg]

I just read an article or rather a paragraph from Phil Jones stating that nothing has changed much under Moyes apart from the fact "we pass the ball more"...has anyone noticed this as i got the impression we were crossing the ball more frequently but i guess it is too early to tell.

 

[Spiersey]

I just read an article or rather a paragraph from Phil Jones stating that nothing has changed much under Moyes apart from the fact "we pass the ball more"...has anyone noticed this as i got the impression we were crossing the ball more frequently but i guess it is too early to tell.

I've noticed that, to me it's made your build up play too slow and allows the opposition's defence to get behind the ball, certainly the case in your last two matches in my opinion.

 

[Julian Denny]

I just read an article or rather a paragraph from Phil Jones stating that nothing has changed much under Moyes apart from the fact "we pass the ball more"...has anyone noticed this as i got the impression we were crossing the ball more frequently but i guess it is too early to tell.

Might have something to do with the extra man in midfield. Nevertheless it will be interesting to see what happens if Fellaini is deployed in an advanced position in what is, for him, a familiar target role.

 

[Skywarden]

The sample size isn't really there to make an adequate conclusion. Here are the numbers from playing Liverpool at Anfield this year and last year:

Anfield this year: 392/478 82%
Anfield last year: 357/420 85%

Source: Opta.

 

[Sky1981]

Might have something to do with the extra man in midfield. Nevertheless it will be interesting to see what happens if Fellaini is deployed in an advanced position in what is, for him, a familiar target role.

For the love of god, we have bought fellaini to be an advance playmaking position? Seriously... please tell me that's a joke

We have Kagawa for crying out loud.

If Fellaini's is playing in Kagawa preferred position, I do fear for what's next

 

[charleysurf]

For the love of god, we have bought fellaini to be an advance playmaking position? Seriously... please tell me that's a joke

We have Kagawa for crying out loud.

If Fellaini's is playing in Kagawa preferred position, I do fear for what's next

God Forbid we would have more than one player who can play in a particular role!

Moyes out!

 

[Sky1981]

God Forbid we would have more than one player who can play in a particular role!

Moyes out!

Seriously. Fellaini ahead of Kagawa in AM role?

Moyes out it is then

 

[Julian Denny]

For the love of god, we have bought fellaini to be an advance playmaking position? Seriously... please tell me that's a joke

We have Kagawa for crying out loud.

If Fellaini's is playing in Kagawa preferred position, I do fear for what's next

It's the old conundrum. Has United bought a player to fit into a system or are they going to change the system to suit the player? Of course Fellaini should preferably have a DM role thus allowing Kagawa or Rooney (when fit) to make things happen upfront. But ask yourself the question. What is Fellaini's preferred position? Where was he most effective for Everton? Surely that was in and around the box -rather than covering and tackling in midfield. Maybe that's a side of his game which isn't familiar to us. Maybe Moyes will indeed give Kagawa chance in his favoured position. He's given absolutely no indication of doing so as yet but maybe he will now. We'll most likely know come Saturday lunchtime.

 

[charleysurf]

Seriously. Fellaini ahead of Kagawa in AM role?

Moyes out it is then

Kagawa is injured half the time and yet you still don't want United to have other options for his position?
Never mind Moyes. It might be better if you were turfed out of football. It's obviously beyond you.

 

[Sky1981]

Kagawa is injured half the time and yet you still don't want United to have other options for his position?
Never mind Moyes. It might be better if you were turfed out of football. It's obviously beyond you.

Injured is one thing, I am talking that if both fit and fellaini is ahead of Kagawa

It is one thing if Kagawa's in a dip of form, injured, or turns out to be wrong for the team, but so far, he has yet to prove otherwise

 

[Chesterlestreet]

It's the old conundrum. Has United bought a player to fit into a system or are they going to change the system to suit the player? Of course Fellaini should preferably have a DM role thus allowing Kagawa or Rooney (when fit) to make things happen upfront. But ask yourself the question. What is Fellaini's preferred position? Where was he most effective for Everton? Surely that was in and around the box -rather than covering and tackling in midfield. Maybe that's a side of his game which isn't familiar to us. Maybe Moyes will indeed give Kagawa chance in his favoured position. He's given absolutely no indication of doing so as yet but maybe he will now. We'll most likely know come Saturday lunchtime.

Ideally Fellaini will be able to combine some of his purely offensive qualities with a CM role, i.e. he will play deep as per default but will A) venture forward when the match allows it and B) play a part on set pieces that none of our other options are capable of. That's what I hope, anyway. And I really don't think Moyes intends to use him as an AM or a No 10 regularly: He has said himself that Fellaini is first and foremost a central midfielder - and the lad himself has confirmed that this is his preferred position. The way he was used at Everton isn't saying all that much: They obviously didn't have the options we have.

 

[bosnian_red]

Kagawa is injured half the time and yet you still don't want United to have other options for his position?
Never mind Moyes. It might be better if you were turfed out of football. It's obviously beyond you.

There's a big difference between wanting other options for the attacking midfield position and Fellaini playing there. If, and it's a big if, Moyes starts playing Fellaini in attacking midfield when Rooney is out, then that for me points in all the wrong directions for United. It's acceptable for Moyes to go after the best players at his old club, bring in some familiar players. If he starts playing the way Everton did though, that's a whole different story and I for one really hope we don't ever see Fellaini behind the striker at United. He should be a defensive midfielder, or central midfielder, but nothing else, because the likes of Kagawa are just more suited to a higher quality of football. I'd rather trust Januzaj with games there then see us put Fellaini behind the striker. Putting Fellaini there would mean one thing: hoof and hope. Manchester United should never have to resort to that style.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

There's a big difference between wanting other options for the attacking midfield position and Fellaini playing there. If, and it's a big if, Moyes starts playing Fellaini in attacking midfield when Rooney is out, then that for me points in all the wrong directions for United. It's acceptable for Moyes to go after the best players at his old club, bring in some familiar players. If he starts playing the way Everton did though, that's a whole different story and I for one really hope we don't ever see Fellaini behind the striker at United. He should be a defensive midfielder, or central midfielder, but nothing else, because the likes of Kagawa are just more suited to a higher quality of football. I'd rather trust Januzaj with games there then see us put Fellaini behind the striker. Putting Fellaini there would mean one thing: hoof and hope. Manchester United should never have to resort to that style.

I agree completely. But I don't think there's any reason to fear that Moyes will use Fellaini much in that role - and certainly not in the same manner he used him at Everton. What Moyes did at Everton was to use the players available to him wisely and effectively. He didn't play hoof n' hope out of preference, nor did he use such tactics all the time: Everton looked very different against us (a superior side) than against opponents at their own level.

Fellaini should feature alongside Carrick - or in the Carrick role when the man himself needs a rest. And that's what I think Moyes intends for him. However, his offensive qualities can come in handy for us in certain matches: He could be used as an offensive impact player of sorts against sides that have parked the bus - for instance.

In short, if it turns out Moyes has wanted Fellaini mainly for the No 10 role all along - he's a nutter and should be committed. But I doubt very much that this is the case.

 

[Stack]

Putting Fellaini there would mean one thing: hoof and hope. Manchester United should never have to resort to that style.

Why exactly would this mean hoof and hope???. Its not how Moyes operated at Everton so why would it suddenly happen here if he put Fellaini behind the striker???

 

[devilish]

Kagawa seems struggling to adapt in the EPL football and is not used to the more physical game Moyes like. I won't be surprised if he ends up being sold either on January or next Summer.

 

[Feed Me]

Why exactly would this mean hoof and hope???. Its not how Moyes operated at Everton so why would it suddenly happen here if he put Fellaini behind the striker???

Everton played a lot of direct balls from the back and then played in the final third from Fellaini's hold up play.

There will be a definite urge to launch balls if we start playing Fellaini in the hole.

 

[Julian Denny]

Ideally Fellaini will be able to combine some of his purely offensive qualities with a CM role, i.e. he will play deep as per default but will A) venture forward when the match allows it and B) play a part on set pieces that none of our other options are capable of. That's what I hope, anyway. And I really don't think Moyes intends to use him as an AM or a No 10 regularly: He has said himself that Fellaini is first and foremost a central midfielder - and the lad himself has confirmed that this is his preferred position. The way he was used at Everton isn't saying all that much: They obviously didn't have the options we have.

 

[Julian Denny]

That would be the most sensible approach and we can only hope. It should give Kagawa a chance to play in his best position too and one hopes Moyes sees it that way too. I must say, thinking about this transfer saga, they desperately tried to get someone in to fit into the system but failed. They must have thought that even Herrera would have been a better fit than Fellaini and only when that deal fell through did they revert to the latter. That would explain leaving it to the last minute to sign Fellaini even at an extra 4m.

 

[Julian Denny]

Kagawa seems struggling to adapt in the EPL football and is not used to the more physical game Moyes like. I won't be surprised if he ends up being sold either on January or next Summer.

Kagawa's been given very little chance to perform since he joined. The signing of RVP rather threw things out of kilter with Fergie trying to slot Kagawa in on the left which most observers who knew him thought was a waste.

 

[Summit]

That would be the most sensible approach and we can only hope. It should give Kagawa a chance to play in his best position too and one hopes Moyes sees it that way too. I must say, thinking about this transfer saga, they desperately tried to get someone in to fit into the system but failed. They must have thought that even Herrera would have been a better fit than Fellaini and only when that deal fell through did they revert to the latter. That would explain leaving it to the last minute to sign Fellaini even at an extra 4m.

Not sure I agree there mate. We did after all bid for Fellaini long before we went in for Herrera. I get the feeling Fellaini was alway coming, and it was just a matter of time.

 

[Julian Denny]

Not sure I agree there mate. We did after all bid for Fellaini long before we went in for Herrera. I get the feeling Fellaini was alway coming, and it was just a matter of time.

Could be but I think the earlier bids were for Fellaini and Baines in a sort of package deal. What's more the first bid was so derisory that United ran the risk of losing out on both. However, if Moyes did intend all along to get Fellaini plus Baines too, it does explain why they under bid for Fabregas and then readily pulled out of any deal for Ozil once Arsenal were prepared to pay 40m + for him. This reinforces the theory that Woodward and Moyes were working within a budget when they had previously indicated, effectively, that money was no object. Ideally they probably wanted Fellaini, Baines, Fabregas (or similar) for a total expenditure of say 65m.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Could be but I think the earlier bids were for Fellaini and Baines in a sort of package deal. What's more the first bid was so derisory that United ran the risk of losing out on both. However, if Moyes did intend all along to get Fellaini plus Baines too, it does explain why they under bid for Fabregas and then readily pulled out of any deal for Ozil once Arsenal were prepared to pay 40m + for him. This reinforces the theory that Woodward and Moyes were working within a budget when they had previously indicated, effectively, that money was no object. Ideally they probably wanted Fellaini, Baines, Fabregas (or similar) for a total expenditure of say 65m.

That's not implausible, actually. It would explain at least parts of what now looks like a rather odd transfer strategy. I think we can at the very least be sure that Moyes/Woodward wanted Baines and Fellaini as a package deal - and that this backfired.

Anyway, the positive to take from this is that Moyes has very clearly been after a CM, not to say a couple of 'em. Fellaini might have been intended as the second of these, rather than the first - so to speak - but it seems obvious he has been brought in as a CM, not as competition for Rooney in the hole.

 

[Siorac]

God Forbid we would have more than one player who can play in a particular role!

Moyes out!

We also have Rooney for that position and even Welbeck. Spending 27.5m on a player to be 3rd/4th choice would be mental. It's not like he's world class as an attacking midfielder/target man, he's a half-decent option to push up when we're desperately chasing a game and are out of ideas.

The sample size isn't really there to make an adequate conclusion. Here are the numbers from playing Liverpool at Anfield this year and last year:

Anfield this year: 392/478 82%
Anfield last year: 357/420 85%

Source: Opta.

Last year we played more than 60 minutes against ten men so it's reasonable to assume that we would have passed the ball even less if we did not have the numerical advantage. I do think we pass more and it's a good thing, at least we look better on the pitch. Goals will come if we actually field a good front four, not involving Ashley Young or Giggs.

 

[psychdelicblues]

That's not implausible, actually. It would explain at least parts of what now looks like a rather odd transfer strategy. I think we can at the very least be sure that Moyes/Woodward wanted Baines and Fellaini as a package deal - and that this backfired.

Anyway, the positive to take from this is that Moyes has very clearly been after a CM, not to say a couple of 'em. Fellaini might have been intended as the second of these, rather than the first - so to speak - but it seems obvious he has been brought in as a CM, not as competition for Rooney in the hole.

The fact that you have to state this, because some people actually think this, is mind blowing.

 

[devilish]

Kagawa's been given very little chance to perform since he joined. The signing of RVP rather threw things out of kilter with Fergie trying to slot Kagawa in on the left which most observers who knew him thought was a waste.

I agree with you and honestly Id love to see Kagawa given a run. He totally deserves it. However with Moyes coming in (he seems to prefer a more physical game then SAF) I am starting having my doubts about whether he's got a future at OT. Moyes tend to prefer a 3 men CM while Kagawa is best utilized as a link man. Even if the gaffer decides to change the system to a 4-2-3-1 Shinji will have to compete with two ex Evertonians (Fellaini and Rooney). The temptation to sell him and bring a playmaker (or Ross Barkley) may be too high.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Fellaini won't be a problem for kagawa. He'll mostly be playing in central midfield. Kagawa is far better behind the strike anyday.

 

[Shark]

Kagawa's been given very little chance to perform since he joined. The signing of RVP rather threw things out of kilter with Fergie trying to slot Kagawa in on the left which most observers who knew him thought was a waste.

It's not his best position, but calling it a waste was stupid. He's put in some top class performances for Japan on the left and could have been capable of doing much better for us there.

 

[Steven Seagull]

I agree with you and honestly Id love to see Kagawa given a run. He totally deserves it. However with Moyes coming in (he seems to prefer a more physical game then SAF) I am starting having my doubts about whether he's got a future at OT. Moyes tend to prefer a 3 men CM while Kagawa is best utilized as a link man. Even if the gaffer decides to change the system to a 4-2-3-1 Shinji will have to compete with two ex Evertonians (Fellaini and Rooney). The temptation to sell him and bring a playmaker (or Ross Barkley) may be too high.

What have we seen so far that indicates Moyes will make us a more physical side?

 

[marjen]

I'd say Kagawa is the type of player Moyes will really enjoy working with. Hard-working, likes to put pressure on teams high up the pitch, a good counter-attacking player, smart movements and can come inside from a nominal left-sided position the way Pienaar was utilized for Everton.

 

[Raees]

Difference is Pienaar is very industrious, Kagawa prefers freedom to do his thing.