Not till the summer at least, but the tide is turning
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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He might if we change the title to 'Moyes Go Far!'
What are the odds on Moyes having a copy of football manager in his weird sex bunker?
Still blaming the players, still saying Moyes needs time. Only criticisms are stating the obvious.
Moyes doesn't need time, he needs to go back in time. His relationship with the squad is broken: They don't believe in him, they aren't playing for him.
This will only get worse.
Agree. We needed a big personality then to replace Sir Matt. My grand-dad says there are endless parallels between Brian Clough back then and Jose now. Our greatest folly was not appointing Brian Clough in 1972 when we replaced Frank O'Farrell. He had just led Derby to the League title but was deemed to outspoken and childish by the likes of Sir Matt, Ramsey and Revie just like Sir Bobby hates Jose's guts.
The likes of Jose or Pep probably wouldn't have taken kindly the previous manager sitting in the stands. But I feel that even if Fergie stuck around, they would've had big enough egos to handle it, they'd have probably thought Hang on, I'm a great manager myself, I can emulate his success. Pep certainly didn't feel overawed by seeing Cruyff in stands in Barcelona, the man who'd built the dream team and introduced them to Total Football. But a guy like Moyes has no tangible track record success to match that. He acted as if merely being appointed United manager was the zenith of his existence. It was so weird watching him posing around OT for pictures as if it was freaking Disneyland and celebrating the Charity Shield like a gimp. The club is too big for a man of his stature.
What I find disturbing is that it seems that none of his backroom staff are telling him that these team selections and tactics are not working. He seems to have surrounded himself with yes men who will be happy whatever happens on the pitch.
I find it surprising because P.Neville and Giggs must be able to see what is happening at the club, are they actively exposing Moyes and his tactics? It definitely doesn't look like it.
Was it's Moyes' plan to get bring in the staff who he knew he had control over and wouldn't question him?
I sure as hell don't believe the likes of Rene nor even Phelen would have gone along with these performances. Seriously needs to buck up his ideas, step back and see what everyone else is seeing currently.
I find it surprising because P.Neville and Giggs must be able to see what is happening at the club, are they actively exposing Moyes and his tactics? It definitely doesn't look like it.
Was it's Moyes' plan to get bring in the staff who he knew he had control over and wouldn't question him?
I sure as hell don't believe the likes of Rene nor even Phelen would have gone along with these performances. Seriously needs to buck up his ideas, step back and see what everyone else is seeing currently.
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David Moyes has pushed me to the brink of starting a letter campaign...
Don't make me break out the "your job now..." gif.
He's known to use it's databases. AVB used to research them for Mourinho too, though...
YAWN, la!
People are quickly turning, even if we had just not been quite so awful so consistently and introduced some freshness into the squad id have been happy. Obviously not expecting miracles and trophies from the off but what I don't expect is to be embarrassed time and time again, so many times in the same season im afraid we just look awful.
Clough really didn't like the way United sacked O'Farrell and made some disparaging remarks about the United board. He even sent a bouquet of flowers to O'Farrell's house after the sacking. Funny though, they appointed Docherty who really was a maverick but with no trophies under his belt. I remember when Clough brought his newly-crowned champions to Old Trafford early on and O'Farrell's United leathered them 3-0 with Best pulling the strings in central midfield. Docherty was willing to put up with Busby's continued influence, publicly stating that he was a great man to turn to for advice. Later on, he complained that no transfer took place without Busby's say-so and that a numer of proposed signings were vetoed, including that of Peter Shilton.
I have no idea why Charlton dislikes Jose but, as I've said on here before, Charlton can be two-faced. Never heard a word from him about Fergie and Coolmore when that row escalated, but he gets all sniffy about Jose poking Pep in the eye saying "a Manchester United manager would never do that." Bollocks. Docherty would have done a damned sight worse and so would Fergie or Big Ron. But he's the man carrying the torch for the Babes and is, I suppose, beyond reproach.
Between Busby and Fergie, we had O'Farrell, whose highest achievement was losing the 1969 FA Cup final to City; Docherty, manager of Scotland, lost 1967 FA Cup final to Chelsea, and Big Ron whose first major trophy came at United in 1983. Fergie was the first to arrive with a pedigree, so to speak. Looks like we've reverted back to the way it was.
I cannot believe that Fergie would interfere with Moyes on the football side of things. Sitting in the stands is no big deal and I agree with your thoughts about that. Who knows what's being said in the boardroom but I think that Fergie has fought a few battles behind Moyes' back on his behalf. The club loves to put up a public united front, and rightly so, but you'd think that recent results would have alarmed the Glazers. What do you think Fergie and Charlton would do if the Glazers decided to pull rank, overrule them, and give Moyes the push? Ask your granddad that question. Be interested to know what he says. I know what I think.
i find this stat quite worrying
"During Tuesday’s game they exchanged passes only five times while United goalkeeper David de Gea received the ball from a team-mate on 20 occasions, once more than Van Persie"
"During Tuesday’s game they exchanged passes only five times while United goalkeeper David de Gea received the ball from a team-mate on 20 occasions, once more than Van Persie"
De Gea was the only one kicking the ball forward
I don't have much confidence in Moyes but I don't really understand those that constantly question whether they would trust him to spend the rumored 100m this summer. I'm genuinely pretty positive Fellaini will be as bad as it gets. From what he's said we know he can at least see the areas that need strengthened and based on rumors he seems to be looking at the right quality of player. For the most part I don't see how he could go wrong.
Saying that, Liverpool did spend 35m on Carroll...
Saying that, Liverpool did spend 35m on Carroll...
The problem is, we can only speculate. The club will never come out and say that 'this is the target for you to remain in job, Moyes' or 'this is the line that breaks the camel's back'. They will put on an united front and any move to sack Moyes will be swift and not publicised.
I know...
If only Eden Hazard was our chairman - you can bet his twitter would be full of cheeky clues as to when, where and how Moyes would be sacked. That'd be way fun. Seriously.
I'm pretty sure that the signings still have to be approved by many although the manager has the final say. So at the end, we will still get good players, may not be Champions League players. We're stacked money wise, but our ability to attract players may diminish. Then again, if we pay top dollar, we should be able to sign players. What we do with them is the problem. Mata is undoubtedly a good signing, but freezing out Kagawa sounds ominous.
Hasn't that happened literally all season long? Not being funny.
Well that's why it is ominous, Cannibal.
Paul Tomkins co-authored a book Pay As You Play which looked in depth at transfers at all the PL clubs, I think since the start of the PL (can't remember). Their study showed that a success rate of 50% is about average for incoming transfers. It's a while since I read the book but I think the figure for expensive signings is of a similar magnitude. Anyone who thinks the answer to any club's problems is to bring in several new players, clearly hasn't read the evidence. The failure rate on expensive signings is frightening.
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Yeah, just look at Spurs recent signing spree...
They'd have been better to spend two thirds of the money on two World Class players - a flair player to replace Bale and a fast CB to accommodate AVB's crazy high line defending and I bet they would've had a much better season, and he'd still be in a job.
I hope if the club do entrust Moyes with, say, £100m in the summer it's spent on two or three really top class players, rather than a slew of lesser players.
Now my grand-dad has gotten a little caustic with age and we have to take everything he says with a pinch of salt. He blames Fergie for a lot of things - including the incident with Briann Kidd, his treatment of Keane, Beckham's sale and Fergie's public demeaning of Victoria, Rock of Gibraltar, his son being an agent linked to the club etc etc. He reckons Moyesy is a puppet to push the vendettas of those two and keep them in a position of power because being their chosen appointment he wouldn't dare open his gob declaring dissent. He thinks Moyesy is so indebted to Fergie and Sir Bobby that he will be a yes man until he achieves enough to come into his own. He also says that if the Glazers go over Fegie's head he will be outraged and do everything in his power including political influence and fan unrest to oust them much the Rock and Gibraltar fiasco. I tend to not agree with him though, he sometimes has a very negative view of life.
Moyes will not survive the games against City and Pool. The squad have given up on him and with the press starting to turn, they will sense an opportunity.
Prepare yourself lads, one of those games we will get a hiding...
Prepare yourself lads, one of those games we will get a hiding...
Of course it isn't daft. Chelsea spent the money (although only around £30m net more over 3 seasons) to get up to our level after finishing 25 points behind and 14 points behind. Obviously it costs far more to climb up the table, than it does to maintain your position (ask Liverpool!)
The difference between the managers is: Moyes has spent £65m on an already title winning team and has taken us to 7th (taking into account Everton's GiH), whereas Mourinho has spent £53m on a team that was 14 points off the pace and has them first.
You can compare investment all you want but Chelsea's squad is not better than ours. They just have a manager who is getting the best out of their player's, rather than one that is making top class player's look mediocre.
If we're losing 3 or 4 nil at home to Liverpool he'd be best off leaving Old Trafford 5-10 minutes before the end of the game and not coming back.
I agree - it doesnt explain why we are in 7th - which clearly isn't acceptable. Moyes seems to be struggling with the job as it stands and may prove to be out of his depth. In my opinion you dont make a knee jerk decision 8 months in given all of the upheaval at the club. Perhaps Moyes would do it differently if given the chance but he is learning on the job and was not brought in as the finished article. I also suspect that the upper management of the club might do things differently as well.
I suspect we'd all be happy with top 4 now, but I suspect the razors would still be out for Moyes if we were in 4th anyway.
As regards "sugar daddy" clubs - United can compete with these clubs financially if they choose to. You can always argue "they have more money" and they technically have a limitless supply. But Chelsea and City will only spend to a degree because buying 6 or 7 players every year is counter productive. FFP may not be the answer to all problems but clubs in this country are clearly trying to pay lip service.
Moyes will, by all accounts have a lot of money to spend - and can offer transfers and wages to match the worlds top clubs (and offer more than a lot of them can or will) If he gets quality players then hopefully we see an improvement. If not, then clearly the issue is with the man alone and not the players, at which time its fair to sack him.
A lot of people want to blame Moyes because they hope that if it is all him, then if he goes the probelms are solved. I have no burning desire to stick up for Moyes, but I personally question how wise it is to give a man a job you know will take more than a year then sack him after 8 months. I personally think if he were a more fashionable manager in this position there would be a lot more call to "give him time".
What happens if we sack him and appoint Van Gaal or Klopp and they dont succeed? Do you sack them after half a season as well?
The club is in transition. Moyes has been left with a squad of ageing players and has been given the difficult task of moving them on and replacing them. He's also had to deal with a new Chief Executive who is learning on the job and a massive amount of pressure. A world class manager may have dealt with this better, but that's not the route the club went.
You're assuming they have the ability to play anti-football. Do you honestly think Klopp would come in here and neither get results nor performances. That's a laugh. And he'd command respect. Immediately. Another thing. He's proven.
Klopp, like SAF, is a born winner and would (like SAF) have a proven track record before coming here, that's why you'd afford him more time. Moyes won nothing, never managed a top team, and never played great football, these are reasons why he shouldn't get the luxury of time as easy as others would.
we are in so much s*it its actually frightening and alarming how badly things have gone since the second week of May last year. from the very moment rumours of Moyes getting the job appeared, the club has just self destructed.
i said it at the time and still believe it is true, but the summer transfer farce f8cked up the entire mentality of the club and above all else the players. we were all embarrassed and appalled by went on, no different for them.
we accepted mediocrity when we took on Moyes and the word mediocre has summed up everything we have done since then.
i said it at the time and still believe it is true, but the summer transfer farce f8cked up the entire mentality of the club and above all else the players. we were all embarrassed and appalled by went on, no different for them.
we accepted mediocrity when we took on Moyes and the word mediocre has summed up everything we have done since then.
Yep. And I refuse to believe we wouldn't be seeing Klopp impose some kind of philosophy of his own on the team.
Most great managers do, because they have balls. I mean Guardiola took over a side that just won the treble and still decided to completely change their game!
Indeed. And this has been one of the most saddening things for me. I think a lot of us wouldn't complain if he at least had us playing defensive, compact and resolute football like he did at Everton. That would be much easier to stomach (but not in the long run obviously). But no. What we're seeing is neither defensively sound, nor offensively attractive.
I think football coaching has also come on a bit on recent times, probably influenced by Guardiola a little. We're seeing a manager take charge of Southampton and getting them to play sexy football. United need to get with the times IMO. There's a lot of high quality coaching happening these days with quality on the ball, ball retention, high pressing etc being more and more encouraged as it's proven to give results and is entertaining. We need to jump aboard that particular train.
But right now I'll just settle for manager good enough to manage a big club.
I have had absolutely no faith in the manager for a long time now, but he isn't going anywhere, so all we can hope now is a positive summer and that he can turn it around next season. All we can literally do is hope now.
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