FlawlessThaw
most 'know it all' poster
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2005
- Messages
- 29,607
Not till the summer at least, but the tide is turningHe's not going anywhere is he?
Not till the summer at least, but the tide is turningHe's not going anywhere is he?
Still blaming the players, still saying Moyes needs time. Only criticisms are stating the obvious.Anyone read Stuart Mathieson's article on MEN?
Fair to say he's sticking boot in....bad signs for Moyes when the local papers are turning against you.
Agree. We needed a big personality then to replace Sir Matt. My grand-dad says there are endless parallels between Brian Clough back then and Jose now. Our greatest folly was not appointing Brian Clough in 1972 when we replaced Frank O'Farrell. He had just led Derby to the League title but was deemed to outspoken and childish by the likes of Sir Matt, Ramsey and Revie just like Sir Bobby hates Jose's guts.Stein would have been immense. Thing is, he would not have put up with Busby keeping an office at the club. The scousers encountered similar problems when Shankly retired. Apparently, Bill had to be asked to stay away from Liverpool's training sessions first by Bob Paisley and then by the chairman. That must have been a bloody hard thing to do for Paisley but Liverpool made the decision and stuck by it. I wonder if the shambles surrounding Busby's retirement played any part in their thinking?
I was about to post the same thing...What are the odds on Moyes having a copy of football manager in his weird sex bunker?
Manchester United's season was on the line in Greece but instead of a reaction, David Moyes got regressionClearly, the players must take responsibility here, but the crux is how far that goes. Ultimately, the absolute first task of any manager is to get a reaction out of his squad.
That is not happening.
Rather than reacting, United are regressing.
This looked like one of those European displays English clubs put in during the mid-90s, when the league was still catching up after the Heysel ban, and so many mid-tier continental clubs gradually exposed them by attrition. Except, instead of naive, this was just negative.
That all arguably reflects what United currently are: a mere top-half team under a manager not quite modern enough.
Don't make me break out the "your job now..." gif.David Moyes has pushed me to the brink of starting a letter campaign...
He's known to use it's databases. AVB used to research them for Mourinho too, though...What are the odds on Moyes having a copy of football manager in his weird sex bunker?
YAWN, la!David Moyes has pushed me to the brink of starting a letter campaign...
Clough really didn't like the way United sacked O'Farrell and made some disparaging remarks about the United board. He even sent a bouquet of flowers to O'Farrell's house after the sacking. Funny though, they appointed Docherty who really was a maverick but with no trophies under his belt. I remember when Clough brought his newly-crowned champions to Old Trafford early on and O'Farrell's United leathered them 3-0 with Best pulling the strings in central midfield. Docherty was willing to put up with Busby's continued influence, publicly stating that he was a great man to turn to for advice. Later on, he complained that no transfer took place without Busby's say-so and that a numer of proposed signings were vetoed, including that of Peter Shilton.Agree. We needed a big personality then to replace Sir Matt. My grand-dad says there are endless parallels between Brian Clough back then and Jose now. Our greatest folly was not appointing Brian Clough in 1972 when we replaced Frank O'Farrell. He had just led Derby to the League title but was deemed to outspoken and childish by the likes of Sir Matt, Ramsey and Revie just like Sir Bobby hates Jose's guts.
The likes of Jose or Pep probably wouldn't have taken kindly the previous manager sitting in the stands. But I feel that even if Fergie stuck around, they would've had big enough egos to handle it, they'd have probably thought Hang on, I'm a great manager myself, I can emulate his success. Pep certainly didn't feel overawed by seeing Cruyff in stands in Barcelona, the man who'd built the dream team and introduced them to Total Football. But a guy like Moyes has no tangible track record success to match that. He acted as if merely being appointed United manager was the zenith of his existence. It was so weird watching him posing around OT for pictures as if it was freaking Disneyland and celebrating the Charity Shield like a gimp. The club is too big for a man of his stature.
I know...The problem is, we can only speculate. The club will never come out and say that 'this is the target for you to remain in job, Moyes' or 'this is the line that breaks the camel's back'. They will put on an united front and any move to sack Moyes will be swift and not publicised.
I'm pretty sure that the signings still have to be approved by many although the manager has the final say. So at the end, we will still get good players, may not be Champions League players. We're stacked money wise, but our ability to attract players may diminish. Then again, if we pay top dollar, we should be able to sign players. What we do with them is the problem. Mata is undoubtedly a good signing, but freezing out Kagawa sounds ominous.I don't have much confidence in Moyes but I don't really understand those that constantly question whether they would trust him to spend the rumored 100m this summer. I'm genuinely pretty positive Fellaini will be as bad as it gets. From what he's said we know he can at least see the areas that need strengthened and based on rumors he seems to be looking at the right quality of player. For the most part I don't see how he could go wrong.
Saying that, Liverpool did spend 35m on Carroll...
Hasn't that happened literally all season long? Not being funny.Mata is undoubtedly a good signing, but freezing out Kagawa sounds ominous.
Well that's why it is ominous, Cannibal.Hasn't that happened literally all season long? Not being funny.
*Casual*Well that's why it is ominous, Cannibal.
Paul Tomkins co-authored a book Pay As You Play which looked in depth at transfers at all the PL clubs, I think since the start of the PL (can't remember). Their study showed that a success rate of 50% is about average for incoming transfers. It's a while since I read the book but I think the figure for expensive signings is of a similar magnitude. Anyone who thinks the answer to any club's problems is to bring in several new players, clearly hasn't read the evidence. The failure rate on expensive signings is frightening.I don't have much confidence in Moyes but I don't really understand those that constantly question whether they would trust him to spend the rumored 100m this summer. I'm genuinely pretty positive Fellaini will be as bad as it gets. From what he's said we know he can at least see the areas that need strengthened and based on rumors he seems to be looking at the right quality of player. For the most part I don't see how he could go wrong.
Saying that, Liverpool did spend 35m on Carroll...
Yeah, just look at Spurs recent signing spree...Paul Tomkins co-authored a book Pay to Play which looked in depth at transfers at all the PL clubs, I think since the start of the PL (can't remember). Their study showed that a success rate of 50% is about average for incoming transfers. It's a while since I read the book but I think the figure for expensive signings is of a similar magnitude. Anyone who thinks the answer to any club's problems is to bring in several new players, clearly hasn't read the evidence. The failure rate on expensive signings is frightening.
Now my grand-dad has gotten a little caustic with age and we have to take everything he says with a pinch of salt. He blames Fergie for a lot of things - including the incident with Briann Kidd, his treatment of Keane, Beckham's sale and Fergie's public demeaning of Victoria, Rock of Gibraltar, his son being an agent linked to the club etc etc. He reckons Moyesy is a puppet to push the vendettas of those two and keep them in a position of power because being their chosen appointment he wouldn't dare open his gob declaring dissent. He thinks Moyesy is so indebted to Fergie and Sir Bobby that he will be a yes man until he achieves enough to come into his own. He also says that if the Glazers go over Fegie's head he will be outraged and do everything in his power including political influence and fan unrest to oust them much the Rock and Gibraltar fiasco. I tend to not agree with him though, he sometimes has a very negative view of life.I cannot believe that Fergie would interfere with Moyes on the football side of things. Sitting in the stands is no big deal and I agree with your thoughts about that. Who knows what's being said in the boardroom but I think that Fergie has fought a few battles behind Moyes' back on his behalf. The club loves to put up a public united front, and rightly so, but you'd think that recent results would have alarmed the Glazers. What do you think Fergie and Charlton would do if the Glazers decided to pull rank, overrule them, and give Moyes the push? Ask your granddad that question. Be interested to know what he says. I know what I think.
Of course it isn't daft. Chelsea spent the money (although only around £30m net more over 3 seasons) to get up to our level after finishing 25 points behind and 14 points behind. Obviously it costs far more to climb up the table, than it does to maintain your position (ask Liverpool!)The comparison with the Chelsea squad mourinho took over is fecking daft, by the way, when you compare the money invested in the two squads over the previous 2 or 3 seasons.
If we're losing 3 or 4 nil at home to Liverpool he'd be best off leaving Old Trafford 5-10 minutes before the end of the game and not coming back.Moyes will not survive the games against City and Pool. The squad have given up on him and with the press starting to turn, they will sense an opportunity.
Prepare yourself lads, one of those games we will get a hiding...
I agree - it doesnt explain why we are in 7th - which clearly isn't acceptable. Moyes seems to be struggling with the job as it stands and may prove to be out of his depth. In my opinion you dont make a knee jerk decision 8 months in given all of the upheaval at the club. Perhaps Moyes would do it differently if given the chance but he is learning on the job and was not brought in as the finished article. I also suspect that the upper management of the club might do things differently as well.Two questions:
1. Still doesn't explain why we are in 7th though. Unless you think that that's where our team's worth.
2. In the future, team with sugar daddies will always have more money and better players. Does it mean that Moyes will always be excused on not winning any league title?
You're assuming they have the ability to play anti-football. Do you honestly think Klopp would come in here and neither get results nor performances. That's a laugh. And he'd command respect. Immediately. Another thing. He's proven.What happens if we sack him and appoint Van Gaal or Klopp and they dont succeed? Do you sack them after half a season as well?
Yep. And I refuse to believe we wouldn't be seeing Klopp impose some kind of philosophy of his own on the team.Klopp, like SAF, is a born winner and would (like SAF) have a proven track record before coming here, that's why you'd afford him more time. Moyes won nothing, never managed a top team, and never played great football, these are reasons why he shouldn't get the luxury of time as easy as others would.
Most great managers do, because they have balls. I mean Guardiola took over a side that just won the treble and still decided to completely change their game!Yep. And I refuse to believe we wouldn't be seeing Klopp impose some kind of philosophy of his own on the team.
Indeed. And this has been one of the most saddening things for me. I think a lot of us wouldn't complain if he at least had us playing defensive, compact and resolute football like he did at Everton. That would be much easier to stomach (but not in the long run obviously). But no. What we're seeing is neither defensively sound, nor offensively attractive.Klopp, like SAF, is a born winner and would (like SAF) have a proven track record before coming here, that's why you'd afford him more time. Moyes won nothing, never managed a top team, and never played great football, these are reasons why he shouldn't get the luxury of time as easy as others would.
The cheek of the fecker. What an egoist!Most great managers do, because they have balls. I mean Guardiola took over a side that just won the treble and still decided to completely change their game!
I think football coaching has also come on a bit on recent times, probably influenced by Guardiola a little. We're seeing a manager take charge of Southampton and getting them to play sexy football. United need to get with the times IMO. There's a lot of high quality coaching happening these days with quality on the ball, ball retention, high pressing etc being more and more encouraged as it's proven to give results and is entertaining. We need to jump aboard that particular train.Most great managers do, because they have balls. I mean Guardiola took over a side that just won the treble and still decided to completely change their game!