Moyes To Succeed Ferguson Anyone?

[Raoul]

He's a long term manager. Chelsea and City have just jumped all over Europe for the latest cup winner. That's the reason they haven't been in for Moyes, they want instant success with managers that have come off the back of romantic cup and league wins, Moyes dusnt have any silverware.

That could be problematic then if he wants to move from a mid table side to the biggest club in the world.

 

[Sky1981]

Oh do read all of a post sky before you reply. I accept time and time again that he's a very successful manager and pretty much guarantees you silverware. I value my club more than a few pots to be honest, and certainly more than a few players who would come to United because of a manager rather than the institution itself.

I do read them, and i do love United as much as ... probably you.

But either way...

It's a crucial time, this 5 years after SAF can define us for the next 25 years.

The next big trophy after SAF is massive, it's a show of force and content that we can still win things after SAF. It'll send a clear message to players and fans that we're still a force!

If we're drifting in top four only for 5 years after SAF, the domino effect on the long term moral and stability will be too much to overcome, ask the scouse, how long it takes them to get back winning after Souness?

My preference will be Jose 5 years at least, win 2-3 cups to steady the bastion post SAF, and after that we can give it for either Ole, Garry, Giggs, Scholes, etc for long term building, while they clock up the needed experience either inside or outside the club

 

[Chrisjn]

That could be problematic then if he wants to move from a mid table side to the biggest club in the world.

Guardiola didn't have any silverware when he joined Barcelona, what's your point?

 

[Sky1981]

Oh do read all of a post sky before you reply. I accept time and time again that he's a very successful manager and pretty much guarantees you silverware. I value my club more than a few pots to be honest, and certainly more than a few players who would come to United because of a manager rather than the institution itself.

SAF, Munich, Busby, Class of 92's, Best, Cantona, Old Trafford, they are all parts of what makes United. And as much as we like it or hate it, trophies are part of us as well

That night in Nou Camp, Moscow, the way we fought our title back, the historical knocking Liverpool of their perch.

It what makes United glamorous and romantic

Adding trophies means adding to the history and heritage of the club as well, it wasn't an evil thing, even if some antics goes along the way it was worth it

People will still recall the night in barcelona and probably retelling it to their grandkids, but the fact that Fergie kick a boot which caused Beckham to get stiched will probably lost somewhere in the myth and folkroe session... like lochness

EDIT: my point is, 5 years with Moyes acting angelic and classy won't leave more legacy 20years later than Jose winning a double with us playing like stoke.

 

[Sky1981]

Guardiola didn't have any silverware when he joined Barcelona, what's your point?

How many among the newly apppointed becomes a pep though? You can make an argument as well on those that fails miserably

Just because pep makes it, doesn't mean every single john doe will do a pep if given the chance. factor in he got Messi, Xavi, Inniesta at their prime playing together.

 

[Raoul]

Guardiola didn't have any silverware when he joined Barcelona, what's your point?

That would be the exception rather than the rule. In Guardiola's case, his success may have had something to do with having three of the best footballers in the world in his squad. Villanova's fast start has for the most part proved that its their squad, not the manager that's been the core of their success.

 

[1999united2008]

That would be the exception rather than the rule. In Guardiola's case, his success may have had something to do with having three of the best footballers in the world in his squad. Villanova's fast start has for the most part proved that its their squad, not the manager that's been the core of their success.

this, so much so...not to mention Pep was being bred for the job at least a year before he got it (managing the b-team, knew the club inside-out, etc...)

Moyes is a completely different kind of character as well, in many respects Moyes is probably a better manager even, he has proved he can get a shit squad to do something far above their station.

that said I still don't see United appointing a manager without at least some silverware to their name realistically, Moyes might have been a good shout if SAF had retired in 2005, but unless Everton happen to qualify for the champions league the season SAF retires and we finish some way off the title ourselves as well, then I don't see him being considered.

of the options I can imagine us actually going for, my pick remains Mourinho by some distance.

 

[Swaters16]

I do read them, and i do love United as much as ... probably you.

But either way...

It's a crucial time, this 5 years after SAF can define us for the next 25 years.

The next big trophy after SAF is massive, it's a show of force and content that we can still win things after SAF. It'll send a clear message to players and fans that we're still a force!

If we're drifting in top four only for 5 years after SAF, the domino effect on the long term moral and stability will be too much to overcome, ask the scouse, how long it takes them to get back winning after Souness?

My preference will be Jose 5 years at least, win 2-3 cups to steady the bastion post SAF, and after that we can give it for either Ole, Garry, Giggs, Scholes, etc for long term building, while they clock up the needed experience either inside or outside the club

That's how I feel, after SAF we do need a high profile coach who can bring instant success, or people will doubt the club. After a few years of still being a top club we can then move onto another long term coach.

 

[Zen86]

You'd think we were some overachieving nothing-club the way some on here talk about us.

 

[RedRover]

Salary. Prospect of winning things. I think those two factors are higher for most players than specifics about the manager. Based on not much.

Surely who the manager is would affect how likely a player considers the club are to win things?

 

[Drifter]

Fergie reveals Guardiola plans


Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson does not believe Pep Guardiola has any imminent plans to return to management.

Guardiola won two UEFA Champions League trophies as Barcelona coach but quit the Catalan club at the end of last season and has since been heavily linked with a switch to either Manchester City or Chelsea.

Asked if he had ever known a situation where a manager was so in-demand, Ferguson told Yahoo Sport: "That is difficult to say.

"I spoke to Pep a while ago and he said he has no interest in getting back into management at the moment.

"His record is fantastic. The trophies he won at Barcelona were quite exceptional and that is his CV - he wins trophies.

"Barcelona have always had that style and played attractive football. He increased that by putting a new work ethic into the players.

"They work extremely hard to get the ball back and if you combine that with their possession it makes a fantastic team."

Reports in Spain have suggested that Barca have contacted Guardiola about taking the reins back at Camp Nou for the rest of the season after it was confirmed that Tito Vilanova was again fighting cancer, but the Catalan club have denied these claims.

 

[RedRover]

That's how I feel, after SAF we do need a high profile coach who can bring instant success, or people will doubt the club. After a few years of still being a top club we can then move onto another long term coach.

The club is heavily reliant on its massive revenue strem - especially in foreign markets. That's waht keeps the money rolling in and the interest payments on the loans paid up.

The worry is that if you're not winning - it doesn't take too long for the millions walking around in United shirts to be walking around in the shirt of A.N Other club.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Even if one were to cast aside Liverpool; Spurs, Chelsea, City, and Newcastle have all had openings on multiple occasions over the past decade and would've been a step up from Everton. If Moyes was such quality, surely some of the owners, whether they were Sugardaddy owners or not, would have been aggressively pursuing him. Not a pin drop from anyone, and yet suddenly he's flamboyantly qualified to manage Manchester United. Its simply a weak argument.

Spurs and Newcastle are a sideways step.....nothing more. City and Chelsea want instant success and a fasionable manager to appease their owners egos. Liverpool......well nothing needs to be said there despite kietotheworlds insane theory that moving from Everton to Liverpool as a manager is no big deal.

Also if the age old argument used when players go to a London club instead of us that "living in London is an attraction to them" surely the opposite could be true.....Personally I cannt stand the place and Im sure Im not the only one.....IF Moyes felt the same way thats a big group of clubs ruled out right there.

 

[Raoul]

Spurs and Newcastle are a sideways step.....nothing more. City and Chelsea want instant success and a fasionable manager to appease their owners egos. Liverpool......well nothing needs to be said there despite kietotheworlds insane theory that moving from Everton to Liverpool as a manager is no big deal.

Also if the age old argument used when players go to a London club instead of us that "living in London is an attraction to them" surely the opposite could be true.....Personally I cannt stand the place and Im sure Im not the only one.....IF Moyes felt the same way thats a big group of clubs ruled out right there.

I think most would consider Spurs and Newcastle a move up, albeit slightly from Everton. And City and Chelsea have employed the likes of Mark Hughes, Avram Grant, and Di Matteo during that period. And yes if Moyes hated London that could explain why he didn't go there, but that's just speculation. Its like saying I hate Paella and going to the beach and if Moyes agrees with me, it would explain why he never wound up at Valencia.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

I think most would consider Spurs and Newcastle a move up, albeit slightly from Everton. And City and Chelsea have employed the likes of Mark Hughes, Avram Grant, and Di Matteo during that period. And yes if Moyes hated London that could explain why he didn't go there, but that's just speculation. Its like saying I hate Paella and going to the beach and if Moyes agrees with me, it would explain why he never wound up at Valencia.

To be fair they employed Mark Hughes because at that time they were still very much an unknown prospect......despite the recent injection of cash. They hadnt yet won anything, the owners were an unknown quantity and they were still limited to the Roque Santa Cruz level rather than the Sergio Aguero level. Were city to be looking for a manager now Im sure there would be many more candidates prepared to consider it than in Sparkys era now that the owners have shown rather than the Abramovich model of management they can have some patience and take a long term view.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

I think most would consider Spurs and Newcastle a move up, albeit slightly from Everton. And City and Chelsea have employed the likes of Mark Hughes, Avram Grant, and Di Matteo during that period. And yes if Moyes hated London that could explain why he didn't go there, but that's just speculation. Its like saying I hate Paella and going to the beach and if Moyes agrees with me, it would explain why he never wound up at Valencia.

But to be fair its no more supposition than the posters saying he hasnt been considered for or applied for other jobs.......not everything makes the papers.

 

[MrMojo]

I think most would consider Spurs and Newcastle a move up, albeit slightly from Everton. And City and Chelsea have employed the likes of Mark Hughes, Avram Grant, and Di Matteo during that period. And yes if Moyes hated London that could explain why he didn't go there, but that's just speculation. Its like saying I hate Paella and going to the beach and if Moyes agrees with me, it would explain why he never wound up at Valencia.

Why would you uproot and break the bond you have with your existing club for a slight upwards move. It seems to me that he's a loyal kind of guy and until he felt the job was done with Everyon he wouldn't leave just for a slight improvement. I doubt few would.

Are we really judging Moyes on the basis of interest from other chairman? Does Chelsea appointing Grant prove he's better than Moyes? It's a rubbish indicator, not least because we have no idea of what goes on behind the scenes but mainly because chairman are proved time and again to be awful at recruiting the right man.

 

[kietotheworld]

But to be fair its no more supposition than the posters saying he hasnt been considered for or applied for other jobs.......not everything makes the papers.

If he had applied for these jobs it would have made the papers if Moyes has a brain in his skull. When people want particular jobs they leak this fact to the media under "sources" in order to get their name into the conversation, gauge how onside the fans of their new club would be and apply pressure to their current employer to let them go. If a manager turns down a major position, he also lets everyone know about it (see Ferguson and Chelsea) because it makes him look more loyal in the eyes of the fans, and helps him get a bigger pay packet.

The idea that he's applying for all these jobs and no-one's finding out, or that they're all being offered to him and he's turning them down out of some loyalty to Everton (and if that's the case I'd like to know where that loyalty was when he left Preston North End) is more insulting to him than the idea that he isn't, because for it all to kept secret he'd have to be a grade A moron.

 

[MrMojo]

If he had applied for these jobs it would have made the papers if Moyes has a brain in his skull. When people want particular jobs they leak this fact to the media under "sources" in order to get their name into the conversation, gauge how onside the fans of their new club would be and apply pressure to their current employer to let them go. If a manager turns down a major position, he also lets everyone know about it (see Ferguson and Chelsea) because it makes him look more loyal in the eyes of the fans, and helps him get a bigger pay packet.

The idea that he's applying for all these jobs and no-one's finding out, or that they're all being offered to him and he's turning them down out of some loyalty to Everton (and if that's the case I'd like to know where that loyalty was when he left Preston North End) is more insulting to him than the idea that he isn't, because for it all to kept secret he'd have to be a grade A moron.

.
Who would you rather became our next manager out of Moyes, Hughes, Di Matteo and Grant?

 

[Amir]

United and Arsenal of course haven't been looking for new managers in recent years. Looking at some of the appointments the other top clubs in England have made somehow I'm not sure the fact they overlooked Moyes is a negative point for him. Hughes for City, Grant for Chelsea, Di Matteo for Chelsea, Dalglish and Rodgers for Liverpool (for those who think him going to the other side of the city is possible) - was Moyes really less worthy? It's kind of like people complaining when we sign a player that no one else was in for him.

Between the tendency to appoint a lot of foreign managers - usually ones who had have major success overseas, the sort they would never have with Everton - and the fact there aren't that many jobs better than Everton, it didn't really leave a whole lot of scope for him to go on to bigger and better things. I was hoping someone would take a punt on him so we could see if he can make the step up, because I don't think United should be his next destination.

 

[kietotheworld]

.
Who would you rather became our next manager out of Moyes, Hughes, Di Matteo and Grant?

Di Matteo.

United and Arsenal of course haven't been looking for new managers in recent years. Looking at some of the appointments the other top clubs in England have made somehow I'm not sure the fact they overlooked Moyes is a negative point for him. Hughes for City, Grant for Chelsea, Di Matteo for Chelsea, Dalglish and Rodgers for Liverpool (for those who think him going to the other side of the city is possible) - was Moyes really less worthy? It's kind of like people complaining when we sign a player that no one else was in for him.

Between the tendency to appoint a lot of foreign managers - usually ones who had have major success overseas, the sort they would never have with Everton - and the fact there aren't that many jobs better than Everton, it didn't really leave a whole lot of scope for him to go on to bigger and better things. I was hoping someone would take a punt on him so we could see if he can make the step up, because I don't think United should be his next destination.

Hughes wasn't appointed when City were a lot club, Grant, well he did pretty bloody well, you could hardly say Moyes would do a better job, the same with Di Matteo - maybe Roman has the right idea, Chelsea's record of success certainly suggests he does. Appointing him over Dalglish would have been smart, I'll grant you, but I'd have Rodgers above him in a heartbeat, he looks to play progressive football unlike the rather dull Moyes.

If Moyes is overachieving then there are plenty of jobs which are better than Everton, nearly all of which have been available during his tenure. Why are you restricting it to Premier League clubs anyway? There are a lot of bigger clubs than Everton around.

 

[MrMojo]

Di Matteo.



Hughes wasn't appointed when City were a lot club, Grant, well he did pretty bloody well, you could hardly say Moyes would do a better job, the same with Di Matteo - maybe Roman has the right idea, Chelsea's record of success certainly suggests he does. Appointing him over Dalglish would have been smart, I'll grant you, but I'd have Rodgers above him in a heartbeat, he looks to play progressive football unlike the rather dull Moyes.

If Moyes is overachieving then there are plenty of jobs which are better than Everton, nearly all of which have been available during his tenure. Why are you restricting it to Premier League clubs anyway? There are a lot of bigger clubs than Everton around.

You really don't like Moyes do you, to choose Di Matteo over him is lunacy.

 

[kietotheworld]

You really don't like Moyes do you, to choose Di Matteo over him is lunacy.

Not really, I liked what he did at MK Dons, he got WBA promoted and was pretty harshly sacked, Chelsea deservedly won the FA Cup under his stewardship, and his tactics were right to allow them to ride their luck to the Champions League title. I thought he was making a good start to building a new side there at Chelsea this season as well.

Of course, my real answer would be "none of the above".

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

If he had applied for these jobs it would have made the papers if Moyes has a brain in his skull. When people want particular jobs they leak this fact to the media under "sources" in order to get their name into the conversation, gauge how onside the fans of their new club would be and apply pressure to their current employer to let them go. If a manager turns down a major position, he also lets everyone know about it (see Ferguson and Chelsea) because it makes him look more loyal in the eyes of the fans, and helps him get a bigger pay packet.

The idea that he's applying for all these jobs and no-one's finding out, or that they're all being offered to him and he's turning them down out of some loyalty to Everton (and if that's the case I'd like to know where that loyalty was when he left Preston North End) is more insulting to him than the idea that he isn't, because for it all to kept secret he'd have to be a grade A moron.

In all honesty he probably hasnt been applying for jobs left right and center, but you can not prove he hasnt any more than I can prove he has.

Again.....there arent that many jobs that are a step up from where he is.

United....Not been looking
Arsenal...Not been looking
Chelsea...feck knows what goes on in Comrade romans mind when appointing a new manager.....probably who gives the best head or is the Klan member in highest standing knowing that place.
City...Could have been a possibility
Spurs...Sideways step
Newcastle/Villa...See spurs
Liverpool....Arguably not really a step up, and despite your opinion, having been at Everton for so long would probably not apply for it out of respect for the club that have been very good to him.

Moving abroad....Maybe.....just maybe he doesnt want to live in a different country, arse about learning a new language at his age and either move his whole family abroad and get used to a new way of life or alternatively be away from his family for extended periods of time. ESPECIALLY when one of the biggest jobs in world football is just down the road and one of the men whos opinion will undoubtably be taken on board is known to think highly of you.

 

[finneh]

He vastly overachieved with Bolton and Blackburn, didn't get much time at Newcastle, and has done everything asked of him at West Ham United. The first 3 teams got relegated after he left them and Bolton and Blackburn are in the Championship now, Bolton back where they were when they started. His teams play shite football, like Moyes's team, but that's the only genuine criticism of him, his record of overachievement is second to none.

Exactly. Every Premier League club that Allardyce has managed for more than half a season has massively overachieved vs their finances.

I'm genuinely interested in where people think Everton should finish, given their finances? I think they have the 7th or 8th highest revenue and wage bill in the Premier League and constantly finish within 2 places of this in the table.

What he has achieved is pretty much what every mid-table manager is expected to - to finish slightly above where your finances suggest you should finish.

 

[kietotheworld]

In all honesty he probably hasnt been applying for jobs left right and center, but you can not prove he hasnt any more than I can prove he has.

Again.....there arent that many jobs that are a step up from where he is.

United....Not been looking
Arsenal...Not been looking
Chelsea...feck knows what goes on in Comrade romans mind when appointing a new manager.....probably who gives the best head or is the Klan member in highest standing knowing that place.
City...Could have been a possibility
Spurs...Sideways step
Newcastle/Villa...See spurs
Liverpool....Arguably not really a step up, and despite your opinion, having been at Everton for so long would probably not apply for it out of respect for the club that have been very good to him.

Moving abroad....Maybe.....just maybe he doesnt want to live in a different country, arse about learning a new language at his age and either move his whole family abroad and get used to a new way of life or alternatively be away from his family for extended periods of time. ESPECIALLY when one of the biggest jobs in world football is just down the road and one of the men whos opinion will undoubtably be taken on board is known to think highly of you.

Given how often Chelsea change managers it's an ideal job for a manager with balls to go to and try to build a reputation by keeping the job. Mourinho went there are nailed it and has never looked back, Di Matteo's reputation increased tenfold. Moyes has never been liked - why?
City - could have been a possibility, he wasn't even linked - why?
Spurs - Top 4 club 2 of the last 3 seasons, definitely a step up, didn't get it - why?
Newcastle have more resources, would allow him to achieve more if Everton's success is about his managerial ability
Liverpool - A step up in every sense

Maybe he doesn't want to move abroad, that's another excuse you can use for him, but how long before the excuses run out and you start to cop on to the real explanation? That which explains all of these jobs that he's never taken - he's not that good.

 

[MrMojo]

Not really, I liked what he did at MK Dons, he got WBA promoted and was pretty harshly sacked, Chelsea deservedly won the FA Cup under his stewardship, and his tactics were right to allow them to ride their luck to the Champions League title. I thought he was making a good start to building a new side there at Chelsea this season as well.

Of course, my real answer would be "none of the above".

Yeah of course, by offering those choices I was highlighting that chairman choices are no indicator of quality, I'm assuming you wouldn't pick Grant or Hughes over Moyes.

If you prefer Di Matteo over Moyes then ok, like I say I think that's crazy, he's only managed at the top level for a couple of seasons and been sacked on both occasions. He's never built a team over any substantial period of time, played incredibly boring football with Chelsea and was a just a coach 12 months ago.

Like I say, you clearly don't rate Moyes at all.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Given how often Chelsea change managers it's an ideal job for a manager with balls to go to and try to build a reputation by keeping the job. Mourinho went there are nailed it and has never looked back, Di Matteo's reputation increased tenfold. Moyes has never been liked - why?
City - could have been a possibility, he wasn't even linked - why?
Spurs - Top 4 club 2 of the last 3 seasons, definitely a step up, didn't get it - why?
Newcastle have more resources, would allow him to achieve more if Everton's success is about his managerial ability
Liverpool - A step up in every sense

Maybe he doesn't want to move abroad, that's another excuse you can use for him, but how long before the excuses run out and you start to cop on to the real explanation? That which explains all of these jobs that he's never taken - he's not that good.

Jose kept the job.....yep....for three seasons and got the sack when things started looking ropey. If someone that did that much for the club gets treated like that why would anyone want to go there?

Liverpool is NOT a step up in every sense......and I notice you ignore the point that even if it was he could quite conceivably not want it out of respect for the club that have stood by him and looked after him very well.....not everyone is a self serving get what I want at all costs and feck everyone else asshole you know.

City...Not linked.....Granted.

Newcastle would not be a step up, you repeating it would be doesnt make it any more true.

Spurs...Ok maybe...I still argue that the finances given to the manager aside there is feck all difference in the stature of the clubs.

Not wanting to move abroad is an excuse....yeah ok....what in your world is so wrong with liking where you live and not wanting to leave it? is that SUCH a wild and implausible thing to believe? I happen to love where I live and there isnt a thing I can think of that would make me move.

 

[Zen86]

I think most would consider Spurs and Newcastle a move up, albeit slightly from Everton. And City and Chelsea have employed the likes of Mark Hughes, Avram Grant, and Di Matteo during that period. And yes if Moyes hated London that could explain why he didn't go there, but that's just speculation. Its like saying I hate Paella and going to the beach and if Moyes agrees with me, it would explain why he never wound up at Valencia.

Spurs and Newcastle would have been a stupid gamble for Moyes' career, especially as they're not a particularly big step up (if at all).

Avram Grant and Di Matteo were promoted at Chelsea, with the rest of the managers being the fancy foreign types with big reputations. Mark Hughes was a remnant of the Shinawatra era and was axed soon after the Sheiks came in.

Moyes is a smart bloke and doesn't strike me as the type who wants to throw away his career for a nice payday. Plus if he's being groomed for the United job (which IMO he is if Fergie's comments are anything to go by) why on earth would he want to go to another club?

 

[kietotheworld]

Yeah of course, by offering those choices I was highlighting that chairman choices are no indicator of quality, I'm assuming you wouldn't pick Grant or Hughes over Moyes.

If you prefer Di Matteo over Moyes then ok, like I say I think that's crazy, he's only managed at the top level for a couple of seasons and been sacked on both occasions. He's never built a team over any substantial period of time, played incredibly boring football with Chelsea and was a just a coach 12 months ago.

Like I say, you clearly don't rate Moyes at all.

I don't know why you're including Hughes, City were no more likely to win trophies than Everton when he was appointed. The obvious parallel would be Mancini, but you already knew that. Grant is the only valid one I'd have Moyes over, and even then you can't really criticise the decision - Roman knew what he was doing.

I do rate him, I think he's a pretty good manager. I'd have him over Hughes, but that's irrelevant.

Jose kept the job.....yep....for three seasons and got the sack when things started looking ropey. If someone that did that much for the club gets treated like that why would anyone want to go there?

Liverpool is NOT a step up in every sense......and I notice you ignore the point that even if it was he could quite conceivably not want it out of respect for the club that have stood by him and looked after him very well.....not everyone is a self serving get what I want at all costs and feck everyone else asshole you know.

City...Not linked.....Granted.

Newcastle would not be a step up, you repeating it would be doesnt make it any more true.

Spurs...Ok maybe...I still argue that the finances given to the manager aside there is feck all difference in the stature of the clubs.

Not wanting to move abroad is an excuse....yeah ok....what in your world is so wrong with liking where you live and not wanting to leave it? is that SUCH a wild and implausible thing to believe? I happen to love where I live and there isnt a thing I can think of that would make me move.

It didn't do too much harm to Jose's career, winning all of those trophies. Certainly it did more for his career than going at Everton and winning feck all for ten years would have done.

Liverpool is a step up, they have more money, a bigger, better fanbase, far more potential, historically they win a lot more trophies than Everton. I don't buy it about him doing out of loyalty, except perhaps loyalty to his wallet. Also, wouldn't this loyalty preclude him from taking the United job? I don't know if you've ever noticed, but scousers aren't generally too fond of Manchester United?

City - not linked, why not?

Newcastle, again, they have a lot more resources, a bigger fanbase, a bigger stadium and more potential. It's another great project for an ambitious, confident manager, Pardew took that opportunity, Moyes didn't (or Newcastle weren't interested).

Spurs - the finances given to the manager are very important to how much a manager can do with a club. Anyone looking after his own career would prefer to go there than to Everton if the jobs were available tomorrow.

It is an excuse, it might be a valid one, but when you have excuses for nearly every position in England, and then you write off every position in Europe because he "might like it where he lives" it starts to bring up the question of whether there's another explanation.

Have you considered that when the time comes, Moyes might not want to leave Everton to join United because he's always stayed there out of loyalty? After all, as you've repeatedly pointed out, there's no more evidence that he's stayed there because they're the best he can get than because he loves the club with all of his heart and soul. Maybe he wants to stay there for the rest of his career.

 

[MrMojo]

Spurs and Newcastle would have been a stupid gamble for Moyes' career, especially as they're not a particularly big step up (if at all).

Avram Grant and Di Matteo were promoted at Chelsea, with the rest of the managers being the fancy foreign types with big reputations. Mark Highes was a remnant of the Shinawatra era and was axed soon after the Sheiks came in.

Exactly, Spurs were in relegation trouble weren't they when Redknapp got the job. Why would Moyes leave behind everything he's done at Everton for that.

If someone like Dave Whelan was in charge of a top four club Moyes would be managing one of them right now.

 

[MrMojo]

I don't know why you're including Hughes, City were no more likely to win trophies than Everton when he was appointed. The obvious parallel would be Mancini, but you already knew that. Grant is the only valid one I'd have Moyes over, and even then you can't really criticise the decision - Roman knew what he was doing.

I do rate him, I think he's a pretty good manager. I'd have him over Hughes, but that's irrelevant.


It didn't do too much harm to Jose's career, winning all of those trophies. Certainly it did more for his career than going at Everton and winning feck all for ten years would have done.

Liverpool is a step up, they have more money, a bigger, better fanbase, far more potential, historically they win a lot more trophies than Everton. I don't buy it about him doing out of loyalty, except perhaps loyalty to his wallet. Also, wouldn't this loyalty preclude him from taking the United job? I don't know if you've ever noticed, but scousers aren't generally too fond of Manchester United?

City - not linked, why not?

Newcastle, again, they have a lot more resources, a bigger fanbase, a bigger stadium and more potential. It's another great project for an ambitious, confident manager, Pardew took that opportunity, Moyes didn't (or Newcastle weren't interested).

Spurs - the finances given to the manager are very important to how much a manager can do with a club. Anyone looking after his own career would prefer to go there than to Everton if the jobs were available tomorrow.

It is an excuse, it might be a valid one, but when you have excuses for nearly every position in England, and then you write off every position in Europe because he "might like it where he lives" it starts to bring up the question of whether there's another explanation.

Have you considered that when the time comes, Moyes might not want to leave Everton to join United because he's always stayed there out of loyalty? After all, as you've repeatedly pointed out, there's no more evidence that he's stayed there because they're the best he can get than because he loves the club with all of his heart and soul. Maybe he wants to stay there for the rest of his career.

You need to stop using the decisions of suits who know next to nothing about football to guide your opinion.,

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

I don't know why you're including Hughes, City were no more likely to win trophies than Everton when he was appointed. The obvious parallel would be Mancini, but you already knew that. Grant is the only valid one I'd have Moyes over, and even then you can't really criticise the decision - Roman knew what he was doing.

I do rate him, I think he's a pretty good manager. I'd have him over Hughes, but that's irrelevant.


It didn't do too much harm to Jose's career, winning all of those trophies. Certainly it did more for his career than going at Everton and winning feck all for ten years would have done.

Liverpool is a step up, they have more money, a bigger, better fanbase, far more potential, historically they win a lot more trophies than Everton. I don't buy it about him doing out of loyalty, except perhaps loyalty to his wallet. Also, wouldn't this loyalty preclude him from taking the United job? I don't know if you've ever noticed, but scousers aren't generally too fond of Manchester United?

City - not linked, why not?

Newcastle, again, they have a lot more resources, a bigger fanbase, a bigger stadium and more potential. It's another great project for an ambitious, confident manager, Pardew took that opportunity, Moyes didn't (or Newcastle weren't interested).

Spurs - the finances given to the manager are very important to how much a manager can do with a club. Anyone looking after his own career would prefer to go there than to Everton if the jobs were available tomorrow.

It is an excuse, it might be a valid one, but when you have excuses for nearly every position in England, and then you write off every position in Europe because he "might like it where he lives" it starts to bring up the question of whether there's another explanation.

Have you considered that when the time comes, Moyes might not want to leave Everton to join United because he's always stayed there out of loyalty? After all, as you've repeatedly pointed out, there's no more evidence that he's stayed there because they're the best he can get than because he loves the club with all of his heart and soul. Maybe he wants to stay there for the rest of his career.

Actually I HAVE considered that he may not want to come to United yes. Its perfectly possible.

Everton-Manchester United is a far less significent rivalry than Utd_liverpool or liverpool-Everton.......by a LONG way.

Liverpool have a better fanbase....yep....better at burning shirts supporting racists and hounding perfectly good managers out of jobs for the heinous crime of not being Kenny Dalgliesh

Newcastle are and will always be a smaller club than Everton.

Spurs.....I really dont know.....maybe hes a fecking huge anti semite...maybe he has a monkey phobia and the thought of working closely with Gareth Bale day in day out creeps him out or maybe the task of getting boomerang defoe out of the club put him off.....I DONT KNOW AND NEITHER DO YOU.

City..I do seem to remember him being linked after Sven and before hughes, not heavily, but linked although thats purely from memory and could be wrong.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Actually I HAVE considered that he may not want to come to United yes. Its perfectly possible.

Everton-Manchester United is a far less significent rivalry than Utd_liverpool or liverpool-Everton.......by a LONG way.

Liverpool have a better fanbase....yep....better at burning shirts supporting racists and hounding perfectly good managers out of jobs for the heinous crime of not being Kenny Dalgliesh

Newcastle are and will always be a smaller club than Everton.

Spurs.....I really dont know.....maybe hes a fecking huge anti semite...maybe he has a monkey phobia and the thought of working closely with Gareth Bale day in day out creeps him out or maybe the task of getting boomerang defoe out of the club put him off.....I DONT KNOW AND NEITHER DO YOU.

City..I do seem to remember him being linked after Sven and before hughes, not heavily, but linked although thats purely from memory and could be wrong.

And Yes Liverpool HISTORICALLY win things, so did Preston NE, should he have stayed there rather than gone to everton?

 

[Ash_G]

Per the Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...pending-from-the-200001-season-to-201112.html

Everton spending

07/08
Net transfer spend ranking 10/20
Wages 11/20
position 5th

08/09
Net transfer spend ranking 9/20
Wages 12/20
position 5th

09/10
Net transfer spend ranking 14/20
Wages 10/20
position 8th

10/11
Net transfer spend ranking 16/20
Wages 9/20
position 7th

11/12
Net transfer spend ranking 16/20
Wages N/A
position 7th

So Everton are usually around the middle of the pack or lower in terms of expenditure and yet continually finish better then that. A lot of the time in recent years they've sold more than they've bought. Moyes is consistently doing a lot with a limited budget and a thin squad where he typically has to sell to buy.

Could he have done better in cups, yes probably but his squad is very thin and their clear goal is to focus on league position and that reflects a general move away in club priorities. There's a reason people have said that the FA cup etc isn't as good as it was and it's because it's not a priority to most clubs, nor is a competition like the UEFA cup.

 

[Sky1981]

Spurs and Newcastle would have been a stupid gamble for Moyes' career, especially as they're not a particularly big step up (if at all).

Avram Grant and Di Matteo were promoted at Chelsea, with the rest of the managers being the fancy foreign types with big reputations. Mark Hughes was a remnant of the Shinawatra era and was axed soon after the Sheiks came in.

Moyes is a smart bloke and doesn't strike me as the type who wants to throw away his career for a nice payday. Plus if he's being groomed for the United job (which IMO he is if Fergie's comments are anything to go by) why on earth would he want to go to another club?

If 5 years ago, he believes that he's being groomed for the United job because SAF hints it so.... he's a bigger loon than everyone will ever thought

I mean, your opposition team hinted you could succeed his job, and you bank all your life's carreer for it to be true???

Besides, he finishes between 5-8th every year, are we gonna stoop so low we can only attract managers of that calibre? There's not much competition on the 5-10 range, the usual suspect will be newcastle, everton, tottenham, Liverpool, and a few rotating flavor of the season (swansea, norwich, etc)

So... maintaining a status quo and finishing just where you're expected to finish is a sign of great manager? And I don't really buy investing in youth, Everton are skint, off course Moyes are forced to go down in his academy for fresh talent, My bet is that he spent more time there ensuring there's good enough talent for him not to buy abroad.

It's one thing to unearth talent good enough for Premier league midtable, but it's another thing to unearth local lad good enough to play for Manchester United.

Sorry, I don't any agenda on Moyes, he's a good and loyal manager on his own right, but after so long he hasn't really improve Everton. He never challenges the top four, nor making any surprises at the cup run, nor having a blast at Europa League.

Factor in :
1. he'll need to be experienced in Europe
2. He'll need to be Experienced in rotating the squad since United are probably having 4-5 competitions every calendar year
3. Managing players having more individual honors than whole Everton history
4. Media pressure which undoubtedly will be folds after the retirement of SAF
5. Fan's and probably players' doubt if things get bumpy, even for a few match
6. He's not really tested to look for players in the 30M+ range, which is another ballgame as to compared with finding mediocre player to play for Everton

And I don't believe easilly we will give him time and support, if he loses 3 in a trot, the fans will be on his back faster than you can imagine. Things like this escalates quickly into a crisis, and we'll be facing a bigger gamble whether to stick with him or appointing someone new.

And the stake of all that is 25 years of mediocrity ala Liverpool should Moyes failed. It's not merely about trophyless season, we can live with that, but if we go a few good years without trophy after SAF, that'll quickly sent the whole thing spiraling down.

Top players will doubt our ambitions, We can't pay top dollar, and the local lads are probably poached more easilly by Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal, Chelsea, and god knows which club's the next sugar daddy funded.

We'll become Liverpool, and again it's not that I'm a glory hunter, but we're at the biggest decision making process in the club history, and I for once would gladly put aside romantism for 5 years of stability after SAF. Mourinho is the safest bet for the long term winning tradition of Manchester United.

Moyes might / might not succeed, same as mourinho, but as I can't see the future, I can only put my bet on the one with better odds.

 

[Adebesi]

Maybe SAF could invite him to come and sit with him in the dugout when we play Real. A bit like a kid on a plane who is invited to the cockpit to meet the pilot and pretend to fly it. Invaluable CL experience for him?

 

[Sky1981]

Per the Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...pending-from-the-200001-season-to-201112.html

Everton spending

07/08
Net transfer spend ranking 10/20
Wages 11/20
position 5th

08/09
Net transfer spend ranking 9/20
Wages 12/20
position 5th

09/10
Net transfer spend ranking 14/20
Wages 10/20
position 8th

10/11
Net transfer spend ranking 16/20
Wages 9/20
position 7th

11/12
Net transfer spend ranking 16/20
Wages N/A
position 7th

So Everton are usually around the middle of the pack or lower in terms of expenditure and yet continually finish better then that. A lot of the time in recent years they've sold more than they've bought. Moyes is consistently doing a lot with a limited budget and a thin squad where he typically has to sell to buy.

Could he have done better in cups, yes probably but his squad is very thin and their clear goal is to focus on league position and that reflects a general move away in club priorities. There's a reason people have said that the FA cup etc isn't as good as it was and it's because it's not a priority to most clubs, nor is a competition like the UEFA cup.

They have no competition on the 5-10th range though.

Who would challenge their position that wasn't already there?

By default bar any major feckup of epic proportion the worst they can finish is 10, and the best they can finish is 5th (4th probably if they're hvaing a blistering season)

So finishing where they finish is not a big achievement

It's like finishing top 4 with United, you are expected to finish top 4, finishing top 4 is not an achievement by itself.

 

[Ash_G]

They have no competition on the 5-10th range though.

Who would challenge their position that wasn't already there?

By default bar any major feckup of epic proportion the worst they can finish is 10, and the best they can finish is 5th (4th probably if they're hvaing a blistering season)

So finishing where they finish is not a big achievement

It's like finishing top 4 with United, you are expected to finish top 4, finishing top 4 is not an achievement by itself.

Well the fact that the majority of clubs are spending more then them year on year suggests there is competition surely?

United finishing top 4 is expected given they spends like a top 4 club. Everton consistently finishing 5-10th when they're usually spending closer to 15-10th is an over achievement. It's been shown that there's a direct correlation between wages and success (at least I think it has). So Everton and therefore Moyes are going against the trend.

 

[MrMojo]

.And I don't believe easilly we will give him time and support, if he loses 3 in a trot, the fans will be on his back faster than you can imagine. Things like this escalates quickly into a crisis, and we'll be facing a bigger gamble whether to stick with him or appointing someone new.
.
Top players will doubt our ambitions, We can't pay top dollar, and the local lads are probably poached more easilly by Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal, Chelsea, and god knows which club's the next sugar daddy funded.

We'll become Liverpool, and again it's not that I'm a glory hunter, but we're at the biggest decision making process in the club history, and I for once would gladly put aside romantism for 5 years of stability after SAF. Mourinho is the safest bet for the long term winning tradition of Manchester United.

Moyes might / might not succeed, same as mourinho, but as I can't see the future, I can only put my bet on the one with better odds.

That's just all rubbish.

This three game losing streak you keep mentioning, when was the last time Eveton lost three in a row? If supporters are that superficial then that's their problem, that's why we don't let brainless chicken feckers run the club.

United can and will attract top players no matter who's in charge, big names go to big clubs. How often do we sign big names anyway.