Yes, number 10 or second striker. Explains how Lyon had some of their best runs when playing a diamond.
Nabil Fekir
- Thread starter Cheekiey
- Start date
- Status
How would RAWk take it?
So would we end up like this if we were to play to his strengths?
Alexis - Lukaku
Fekir
Pogba - Fred
Matic
Back 4
David
I really like it tbh.Fekir
Pogba - Fred
Matic
Back 4
David
Jose won't play a diamond in the Premier League for any length of time.
Lyon trying to put pressure on Liverpool to come back in.
We don't have the full/wing backs for it. If we do sign him, I'd hope we'd use him as an #8 where I think he could easily make the transition to, or a false 9 with Lukaku as a right forward cutting in.
Pretty sure Fellaini’s got your no.10 position secured for the next two years. 
Lyon just want Liverpool to pay up.
Pretty sure Fellaini’s got your no.10 position secured for the next two years.
Nope.
May I ask, why? Especially considering he used it during the FA cup final?
It's too narrow and means you can't adequately control the opposition fullbacks.
Mourinho often likes to go man-for-man in big games - this seems to be particularly true in any game when he's up against Conte. In the FA Cup Final he went with the diamond specifically to counter Conte's 3-5-1-1 (each player therefore had a direct opponent in midfield). In February he went with a 4-2-2-2 vs Chelsea because at that time they were using a 3-4-2-1 system (again, Mourinho was ensuring each player had a direct opponent, with the 'spare men' once again being a CB on either side). I'm not saying he'll never use a diamond - I just don't see it ever being his primary system (outside of Serie A, anyway).
Fekir could probably do a job for us drifting in from the right in a 4-3-3, but it's not really where he's at his best.
Well, I wasn't expecting a thought out response, so kudos. I don't agree that it is too narrow or that you can't control the fullbacks of the other team though.
Pretty sure Fellaini’s got your no.10 position secured for the next two years.
Too soon.
Pretty sure Fellaini’s got your no.10 position secured for the next two years.
Not nice kicking someone while they down is it?
Good post, but Mourinho used the diamond at Porto(and won everything), Chelsea in 06/07, and Inter in his first season(plus the first half of the treble season. Then they signed Pandev in January and he switched. He did not originally plan on using the diamond though, he was forced into it by the players he had). Ultimately it all comes down to the players he has and how much he trusts them to follow certain defensive assignments.
Just don't see where he'd fit.
Well, we mainly played in 4231. So if these reports were true, it's fairly obvious to see where he would fit.
I don't think it's as fixed as you make it sound. I think it depends on the players he has at his disposal.
He's played it and Porto and Inter and the system is recently making a comeback with R.Madrid playing it for the majority of last season incl. the CL final. Isco at #10, Ronado-Benzema up front, Casemiro - Modric - Kroos in MF.
It'd also get the best out of our current crop. Or at least that's what I reckon...
- Sanchez looks better as a Support Striker than a winger.
- Martial and Rashford are actually also the same and would better suit a 2-man attack when played rather than wing roles.
- Matic anchoring would allow Pogba and Fred to roam down the left and right channels respectively.
- Fekir and Lingard can compete for that #10 free role that suits them both better than a wing role
He will transform our attack completely. His creativity and pinpoint passing would be so vital. I could also see his career mirroring that of David Silva in centre midfield of a 3.
Why the feck are you so rightPretty sure Fellaini’s got your no.10 position secured for the next two years.
Sort of did and sort of didn't.
On paper maybe, but in reality we didn't have a RW for all of last season. Mata's heatmaps usually put him at #10, same as Lingard.
And Sanchez, after his arrival, also played more centrally than what was expected of Martial/Rashford. I don't recall Sanchez hugging the touchline much.
The linking with us is all because the Lyon president said he had a long talk with Jose and that's all he said, the long conversation probably had nothing to do with transfers
If he failed the medical at Liverpool, why would we be interested in him?
These proposals you are making will make our team way too narrow, and lead to similar struggles in penetration (penetration, hehehe).
Replacement for Mata?
need attacking full backs to get the best out of this system, none of our players currently bring this which would be the downfall, Dalot might bring up but never seen enough of him to pass judgement, Max who we have been linked with would certainly bring it.
I don't for a second believe we're interested. He'll most likely still end up at Liverpool.
Worked for R.Madrid, didn't it?
It's not any more narrow than playing a 4-2-3-1 with a RW who plays as #10 (Mata) and LWs who are both more suited to and more willing to play as forwards (Sanchez, Martial, Rashford).
I don't disagree, in fact I fully agree, but I think you need decent attacking full backs in practically system that isn't a flat 4-4-2. A 4-3-3 with Matic anchoring also needs good attacking fullbacks to function properly, otherwise your wingers get hopelessly isolated. Especially modern "wingers", which are actually wide forwards that quite predictably cut inside on their strong foot and don't provide any real width.
So I don't think the 4-4-2 diamond creates a bigger dependence on FBs than 4-3-3. It certainly looked like we were playing diamond some games last season with Mata coming in from the RW
Last edited:
Of course it is - mourinho at Porto wasn't a manager who had to go out and win things purely as a means to his Job. The expectations of Porto & him as a manager over 10-15 years ago is completely different.
Every single club, every single season post Porto he uses a target man solely upfront by himself, a inverted winger or playmaker on one side with a touchline direct winger on the other side to provide width. His formation has been 4231 at every single season post Porto so why would it suddenly change in his 3rd season at United where we have seen 4231as a core formation? The 352 he occasionally uses is more of what's been left behind from LVG's old formations with non target man strikers, wingers who plays as wing backs & CB's that play in channels - a more direct on the floor football.
Chelsea - duff & robben & Drogba
Inter - pandev & Eto'0 & milit0
Madrid - Ronaldo, Di Maria & Higuain
Chelsea 2.0 - Hazard, Schrulle, Costa
United - martial (asking him to hug the touchline) ibrahinpvic - Mata
Now it comes to who our RW is there is a reason why we are being Linked with Willian - Bale, Ronaldo - any winger who cuts in won't be coming here because we already have one on the left now with Sanchez. Willian it is. That is likely not going to lead to diamond formation. We could get Fekir or no 10 because Mkhitaryan failed but it will definitely be within a 4231.
We didn't play with 3 midfielders at the end of the season - Pogba became out playmaker within the 4231. The manager is strict with that formation - a Manger who is using players at his disposal won't be using lulkaku as a target man, Martial and Rashford as wingers asked to back up with the fullback, make blind play solely as a LB after a fantastic season at CB, make Pogba play in a midfield 2 (which is not a problem) but making him focus too much on defensive work watching us play our best game 352 against Chelsea & switch back to 4231 straight after, recognising that our fullbacks are actually wingbacks etc.
The guy is 4231 with flexing to accommodate tactics based on reflex of the opposition.
Isn't this the Fekir thread?
But it isn’t any less arrow, which is a problem in itself. We have poor width as it is, signing Fekir won’t change that. If City are still deliberating about tying up the Mahrez deal, I’d rather sign him, as much as my heart likes Fekir.
Where has this link come from?
It's just MEN trolling it's scouse readers.
Again, I don't disagree. I just think the problem of width in these formations is resolved almost exclusively with good quality FBs or WBs.
For example we talk about signing Willian, but Willian is not the one providing width for Chelsea on the right, it's actually Moses (and same with Alonso on the left side). For City it's not Silva or KDB providing width on the right, it's mostly Walker. At Tottenham it's Trippier and Davies. At R.Madrid it's Marcelo and Carvajal. At Barca it's Alba and Semedo/Roberto. At Juventus it's Sandro & Quadrado Etc. etc. etc.
So whether we played 4-4-2 diamond or 4-3-3, you'd still need good FBs unless your wingers in the 4-3-3 were natural wingers in the Perisic or Sane mould. The only formation I can see that can have adequate width with defensive or unadventurous fullbacks, is a flat 4-4-2.
So even if we signed Fekir or Bale for 10#/RW roles, we'd still need to invest on another good fullback. That doesn't change in the slightest.
I agree, but only to an extent. I mean, we don’t have the best full backs in the world - but we also don’t play without them. It’s not as if Valencia and Young keep drifting centrally. They stretch play and provide width, but we are still too narrow I think.
Chelsea play a specific formation that allows Moses to be exclusively responsible for the width - he is a wing back.
Sterling provides width on the right for City. If anything, Walker spends more time centrally than our full backs.
Sanchez, Fekir and Mata/Lingard will be 3 #10s effectively all in the same spot. Willian, not that I necessarily want us to sign him, would not be like that.
Lyon local newspaper. It's just a throwaway line in an article to be fair.
Fekir to play on the right for us? Seems a bit wasted there though.
Edit: It's probably based off what Aulas said about Mourinho last week, so nothing new.
I would want him here. He is already good and has a lot of potential. We lack a proper #10 and he can also play as a striker incase Lukaku is injured.
- Status