Poch rejected Madrid 2 years ago
Nagelsmann, Rose and Hasenhuttl
- Thread starter Foxbatt
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That was very interesting to read, unfortunately I think Ed and co will again make the wrong decision, it is about time they were held to account but of course, they won't be. Nor will the react to the wider picture eg Liverpool lining up Naglesmann as the replacement for Klopp
Yeah they are never going to be held to account which is utterly ridiculous but just gotta accept that is the crap hand we are dealt by them
Off topic post but since this is pertaining to German and Austrian managers who are linked with RB, Seb Hoeneß could be a candidate in a few years...
Later joined Bayern where he guided the reserves from 3. Liga to 2. Bundesliga, and currently in charge of Flick/Rangnick/Nagelsmann's former club Hoffenheim — who have been a bit inconsistent in the league but defeated Bayern to end their streak and also sit atop Europa League Group L. Though if he turns out to be any good, Bayern should be in the commanding position for his signature because of his past as well as the Uli and Dieter Hoeneß family-connection, unless Flick stays there for the looooong term of course.
https://www.leftbackfootball.com/home/2020/7/23/sebastian-hoeness-fc-bayern-ii-upstarts
Later joined Bayern where he guided the reserves from 3. Liga to 2. Bundesliga, and currently in charge of Flick/Rangnick/Nagelsmann's former club Hoffenheim — who have been a bit inconsistent in the league but defeated Bayern to end their streak and also sit atop Europa League Group L. Though if he turns out to be any good, Bayern should be in the commanding position for his signature because of his past as well as the Uli and Dieter Hoeneß family-connection, unless Flick stays there for the looooong term of course.
https://www.leftbackfootball.com/home/2020/7/23/sebastian-hoeness-fc-bayern-ii-upstarts
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He did win the 3. Liga with Bayern II, but in the German football pyramid reserve teams can't get promoted if promotion would mean them playing just one league level apart from their first team. That's why Bayern II stayed in 3rd division, where we're not doing that well this season.
The aggregate score between the 2 teams was 7 - 3 over 2 legs. We done them by 4 goals clear but lost.
Well I guess then Ole was right, better to get humilliated 6-1 than that hypotetycal scenario.
None of the 3 had a new team signed for them where they are, and yet we testify to the good job they're doing by making them potential United managers.
I wouldn't mind this at all. We want to build back hey? Well, go for the tried and tested. The 3 men we're debating are all from his school. Honestly thought we were planning to do this when all those rumours were afoot. I wonder if he was actually ever spoken to, even if only for the DoF role.
We will never do that so long as people like Nevilles, Keane and Scholes and them lot are pundits. I can't stand Phil Neville and his defence of Ole no matter what. Phil Neville can stick it up his Hasenhuttl for all I care.
He seems to be a coach who pays big attention to detail without being too radical. He is subtle, and he knows what he wants. His teams always come across as well organized structurally, he is an excellent in-game manager, he works closely with his staff, and is always willing to learn.
He has worked with some of the best names in football, and they've had nothing but good things to say about him.
This is from Moenchengladbach's current sporting director, Max Eberl:
He is a disciple of Ralf Rangnick, was one of Klopp's key players at Mainz and has even worked with Thomas Tuchel. Back in 2004 when Rose was still a player, Jurgen Klopp believed he'd make a great coach, and this is from the Liverpool man recently:
He has worked his way up from the lower levels of German football to the Salzburg youth teams, senior team and Borussia. Each time realistically exceeding expectations. He was promoted from Salzburg's U16 team to U18 team, to the U19 team, and then to the senior team in a matter of years, adapting seamlessly to each role.
With Salzburg he dominated domestically and was very successful in the youth league - he won it with them, their first time - as well as the Europa League with the senior team, reaching the semis - their best in the competition - and beating the likes of Lazio, Soceidad, Dortmund and Marseille - an impressive feat for a club of Salzburg's standing. He joined Moenchengladbach who finished the previous season terribly, and has carried that success at Salsburg, doing very well in his first season to secure a Champions League place.
This season, he's found a way to progress in a group that contained Shakthar Donetsk as well as Real Madrid and Inter, prolific teams in UCL in recent years. I don't think he has categorically failed to deliver in any of his gigs so far, favouring attacking football, and getting his team to compete against any team.
He has got history with young players too seeing how successful he was with Salzburg's youth team and then successfully integrating some of them to the senior team. He has also proven to be able to get the best out of players, a trait that the likes of Klopp's and Mourinho possess.Marco Rose said:
The likes of Amaduo Haidara - who scored against us, Embolo, Zakaria, Neuhaus, Thuram and Plea are all playing good football under him. He is a coach who makes a team better than the sum of it's parts and his influence is almost always evident.
The most impressive thing for me about him though is how well he carries himself. In the media, during games, you could see he is a very classy man, confident, and carries a certain aura about him.
This is from the man himself:
Since I noticed him, I've never had doubts about him, and I've seen no reason to. I believe the players would love to have him here, the media would warm to him and he'd be successful.
I didn't say much about how his teams play, but there's many articles about that out there. I could post them too. He is very highly rated by people in football.
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He has always said that Madrid is his dream job. He was never offered the job, he was a candidate however.
The only jobs he has declined have been Benfica and Monaco.
Again, only strengthening my belief that top teams are not interested in him.
Not having anything to do with that....it’s all a horrible dreamExcept when Jonny Evans got sent off 60 seconds after half time with the score at 0-1?
My understanding is that it wasn't an approach, more of an availability check, to see if he was a viable candidate or not, as they also approached Klopp and Allegri at the same time, and got rebuffed by the respective clubs, as Levy was the one who responded to the advance by Real, similar happened with the two other managers which led to them going for Lopetigui instead.
Its funny because when Fergie first arrived he walked into an even worse scenario
Good post mate.
His man management skills don't often get spoken about but his players do love playing under him whether that be at Salzburg or currently at Gladbach. But for me what's impressive about him is that he joined Gladbach who aren't financially the strongest and were playing a very pragmatic brand of football before he arrived. And in one preseason he succesfully navigated a stylistic/strategic change. And even for this current season he had to make do with two loan signings due to a severe lack of funds due to Covid.
I love the way Nagelsmann's team plays... for the first 20 minutes.
There was another article from chief mainstream hipster journalist and chief Ole-tormentor Barney Ronay this week basically framing Nagelsmann as the tactical genius versus Ole's naivety and amateur approach.
What it neglected to mention at all was how Leipzig nearly fecked it completely in the second half. They also nearly did the same vs. Istanbul, oh and didn't they lose 5-0 earlier in the group stages to one of the other tactically amateur clubs? I forget who.
Maybe with a better squad he would be miles better but who knows, or maybe he only knows how to play one way and doesn't know how to shut up shop - a vital component of any top tier manager.
In all seriousness he could end up being brilliant, and is he clearly better than Ole in some ways? Yes. However, I'm not sure he's proving yet that he is the total package.
There was another article from chief mainstream hipster journalist and chief Ole-tormentor Barney Ronay this week basically framing Nagelsmann as the tactical genius versus Ole's naivety and amateur approach.
What it neglected to mention at all was how Leipzig nearly fecked it completely in the second half. They also nearly did the same vs. Istanbul, oh and didn't they lose 5-0 earlier in the group stages to one of the other tactically amateur clubs? I forget who.
Maybe with a better squad he would be miles better but who knows, or maybe he only knows how to play one way and doesn't know how to shut up shop - a vital component of any top tier manager.
In all seriousness he could end up being brilliant, and is he clearly better than Ole in some ways? Yes. However, I'm not sure he's proving yet that he is the total package.
He has a lot of potential but should stay put at RedBull for now IMO. He was lucky we didn't have a more tactically savvy coach in the dug out or else his team would've been out of the competition. I think he's developing and has done well at two clubs where the ground work was done by others which gave him a advantage. I personally believe he should stay at RBL for another two years to develop himself further and with RedBull's finances he could possibly beat out Dortmund for 2nd spot.
So who would you prefer if Ole gets the sack?
We would probably have gotten second last season if he was our manager instead of Ole.
As unlikable as he was with Liverpool, he clearly knows how to get the best out of a squad and won't give the same old excuse of needing the perfect squad to play his ideal formation.
The only thing we should be getting from RB is their scouting network. They probably spent less in the last decade than we've spent under any of Van Gaal / Jose / Ole.
Nagelsmann's style is too naive because he'll always try to outplay and outscore the opponent no matter what. It's great when it works but it'll eventually come back to haunt them in the later stages of the CL.
I prefer Marco Rose because he's done well under financial constraints in a non Rangnick influenced club and has successfully made a stylistic change from a pragmatic one to a proactive one in a short space of time. But having said that, Hassenhuttl might be the best choice due to his attacking nature, man management skills. We need someone who is gonna help us transition from a team that plays reactive underdog football to a proactive front football one.
So if we weigh everything up, then maybe Hassenhuttl is the best choice for now and is more than experienced enough as a coach to handle a dressing room. He's also someone that would be a good choice to help the current team transition from the reactive football we've been playing since Fergie retired.
Dortmund would be out looking for a coach now. Can't imagine Nagelsman going there since it's not really a step up. Rose I don't know but Hassenhutl will be tempted. I just hope they don't get him because he's my choice
Didn't van Gaal do that with the players which was why they all hated him?
Wrong forum.
Nagelsmann for the massive potential, but I'd be happy with Hassenhuttel too.
Dortmund will have one of these sorted for next season, more like Rose or Nagelsmann I'd say.
Voted Rose, however Di Marzio says Marco Rose is joining Dortmund after this season concludes in 2021.
Guess I'm switching my vote to Hasenhuttl
Guess I'm switching my vote to Hasenhuttl
I'll use your post as letterhead as I don't mean to discuss these in connection with the Man United job.
I just thought that, as an aside, it's interesting to point out that both Nagelsmann and Rose are in their current job not as managers being brought into a team doing poorly and after their predecessor was sacked, but both hirings were planned and consciously executed as strategic upgrades on reasonably successful managers performing well with a functioning team, which very rarely happens in the tumultuous world of professional football.
Hecking was doing well at Gladbach, relatively maintaining the team's overperformance considering its resources. Eberl basically apologized to him for not continuing with him. And of course Hasenhüttl did great with Leipzig too.
But with both Nagelsmann and Rose, quite apparently the DoFs of RB and Gladbach, Rangnick and Eberl, regarded them as managers too good to be passed on when available and as having some extra potential to bring their teams forward, enough to outweigh the serious risk attached to such a change. Even over Hasenhüttl.
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Good to see mental gymnastics is still one of the most played sport in this forum
Hassenhuttl is sitting 3rd with a team that belongs around 15th. The other two I would obviously be very happy with however I don’t see Nagelsmann choosing United over all the options he will have (like Haaland) and Rose is seemingly Dortmund-bound. Hassenhuttl seems fantastic.
Louis has his own stories. He's notorious for believing that the players are always the ones who must adapt to the system and not vice versa. In the spirit of this, he didn't call the players by their names but he often used numbers which were descriptive of the roles on the pitch. It's easy to understand that it didn't sit well with many established players and that's probably why LvG always had more luck with youngsters (who could more easily be moulded into the roles he wanted) and footballers who "understood" what he was asking of them. His Ajax side is still famous but what stands out for me is that in both jobs where he managed to rejuvenate his career (AZ and Bayern Munich) his tenure began with a lot of question marks until suddenly it all clicked. So, you can say that the DVD sessions paid dividends in the end. It's true that this method of his wasn't particularly liked at United but i don't believe it was the main reason he was disliked. As with all managers who are very set in their ways, it's very difficult to keep it all together if time goes by and the final puzzle remains unfinished.
It can happen with Bielsa too. When you're a newly promoted side, it's very intriguing for the players to have a manager who tells them that they will play on the front foot. And when you win some games and raise a few eyebrows, you can deal with the lectures, the video-therapy and the intense training. But then comes the time when you can't keep it up for more than 45 minutes and when you start losing games against "park the bus" sides (of your level) because you don't have the legs to do well in 1v1 marking defensively. That's when the problems start.
I guess the difference with LvG is that Bielsa doesn't use his knowledge to feed his ego. It's just love for the game. There's an incident when Pep's Barça beat Bielsa's Athletic Bilbao 3-0 and after the game Pep went to say hello. They ended up analysing the game for quite some time and Pep told Bielsa "you know more things about my Barcelona than me". But yeah, most players don't like to process too much data before each game.
hasenhuttl seems to be leading the pack now. if he does a good job at SOTON then he should be a strong candidate If he come to United are there players I Sotom that is good enough to play at this `united side'?