Nagelsmann, Rose and Hasenhuttl

[Caesar2290]

Maybe it's not a coincidence that all the players Poch managed happened to be quality players. Looking at that list of Southampton players, and then we see what happened at Spurs as well... makes you think doesn't it?

It sounds like Poch has that rare ability to make players a lot better, and if that's the case I'll take him ahead of anyone else regardless of their system. @Adnan and other regular Bundesliga watchers, how do Rose and Nagelsmann stack up in that department?

Oh, I'm not saying that the players Poch managed were world class, to the contrary. The man did a really good job with the resources at his disposal, but let's not kid ourselves here. Can we actually compare the talent Poch worked with the current talent the Saints have. A good manager will only get you so far, you actually have to be, you know, not crap.

What I am saying is that Ralph has inferior players to those of Poch and he still punches way above their weight. Not that long ago the Saints were tipped for relegation. Now they are pushing for Europe. Still early days though.

The thing that makes me tilt in favor of Ralph over Poch is his temperament really. The man is passionate and is in it to win it. He looks like a perfect fit for us.

 

[GloryHunter07]

I have no idea but voted anyway.

 

[Foxbatt]

Oh, I'm not saying that the players Poch managed were world class, to the contrary. The man did a really good job with the resources at his disposal, but let's not kid ourselves here. Can we actually compare the talent Poch worked with the current talent the Saints have. A good manager will only get you so far, you actually have to be, you know, not crap.

What I am saying is that Ralph has inferior players to those of Poch and he still punches way above their weight. Not that long ago the Saints were tipped for relegation. Now they are pushing for Europe. Still early days though.

The thing that makes me tilt in favor of Ralph over Poch is his temperament really. The man is passionate and is in it to win it. He looks like a perfect fit for us.

They have a better understanding of the game because of the way it is being played and coached there. Personally I would chose any of these three above Poch not because he is not a top class coach but I prefer their way as I feel they are more pragmatic and less rigid than Poch. But knowing our Board if they sack Ole they will appoint Poch. I do not think they will be that mad to appoint Phil Neville but with this club now one never knows.

 

[VorZakone]

Oh, I'm not saying that the players Poch managed were world class, to the contrary. The man did a really good job with the resources at his disposal, but let's not kid ourselves here. Can we actually compare the talent Poch worked with the current talent the Saints have. A good manager will only get you so far, you actually have to be, you know, not crap.

What I am saying is that Ralph has inferior players to those of Poch and he still punches way above their weight. Not that long ago the Saints were tipped for relegation. Now they are pushing for Europe. Still early days though.

The thing that makes me tilt in favor of Ralph over Poch is his temperament really. The man is passionate and is in it to win it. He looks like a perfect fit for us.

You think Poch is less passionate and less in it to win it?

 

[Zehner]

As far as I know, Nagelsmann is not imminently looking to make a move. I'd say there's a reasonable chance that his next club is Bayern.

Lots of things would have to align in order for that to happen. Realistically, Nagelsmann's next step is a club of Bayern's magnitude. There are many top clubs right now who are in a crisis and might need a new, modern, innovative manager but Bayern is one of the few which isn't. They're in a brillant condition right now and Flick has just begun his tenure there. It's reasonable to think that he stays there for another 3-4 years, if not longer. He's actually the first coach since probably van Gaal who could build up a real era there. It was always clar that Heynckes and Guardiola would stay for three to four years at best and the only people thinking Kovac had the necessary quality were Hoeneß and Salihamidzic. But Flick could really be a long term solution like Hitzfeld.

So it would make much more sense if he'd try his luck at another top club who is in real need for him. And due to language barriers I guess that England is the most probable option for him. Anyway, I don't think he'll leave Leipzig next summer. Reckon his spell there will at least last three or four seasons before he moves on.

 

[Foxbatt]

Lots of things would have to align in order for that to happen. Realistically, Nagelsmann's next step is a club of Bayern's magnitude. There are many top clubs right now who are in a crisis and might need a new, modern, innovative manager but Bayern is one of the few which isn't. They're in a brillant condition right now and Flick has just begun his tenure there. It's reasonable to think that he stays there for another 3-4 years, if not longer. He's actually the first coach since probably van Gaal who could build up a real era there. It was always clar that Heynckes and Guardiola would stay for three to four years at best and the only people thinking Kovac had the necessary quality were Hoeneß and Salihamidzic. But Flick could really be a long term solution like Hitzfeld.

So it would make much more sense if he'd try his luck at another top club who is in real need for him. And due to language barriers I guess that England is the most probable option for him. Anyway, I don't think he'll leave Leipzig next summer. Reckon his spell there will at least last three or four seasons before he moves on.

That is by choice but if he gets an offer from a huge club like United he may very well make that move.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I think if we want Naglesmann we need to actually sort ourselves out and approach him soon or I see him replacing Klopp at Liverpool. Which would be sickening.

Not saying we should get him but I watched the Leeds documentary and you could tell the players would work their arses off for Bielsa and run through a brick wall for him. Bar a couple, would our players do that for Ole?

Oh yes, we do. He's after the clear path, he will go where he will feel that they will respect him and allow him to fully implement his vision. Not adult Disneyland, not assistants being force-fed to him, not keeping players around forever to "protect the value", not awarding future potential with huge contracts. The club has to be run smoothly from top to bottom.

Prepare yourself because this is very likely to happen.

Bielsa is a wonderful football person. The fact that he is so very well respected by his colleagues, despite having not won any major trophies, speaks volumes about his knowledge of the game. With Cruyff sadly leaving us, he's probably, alongside Sacchi, the best theoretician of football alive. One of the last "true believers" of the game still standing. This is why players, especially in smaller clubs, love him and buy into his ideas. There's an anecdote story about Pep visiting Bielsa to discuss his ideas when Pep was ready to go into management. It was a discussion that went on for about 18 hours non-stop. As the story goes, Bielsa told him that he was ready to manage and Pep texted a friend afterwards saying that he had met the person who knows most about football. But this is also Bielsa's curse: He's over analytical and he can't stand all the toxicity that surrounds football and makes it a business. Can you really imagine our players sitting week after week in front of a video screen and listening to 3-hour lectures about what they did wrong and what they did right after each game? It would be a cultural shock to them. And it;s pretty safe to say that he and Ed would not get along, at all.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

Thanks for that - I suspected that would be the case because I'm not daft enough to think these managers just got lucky that they inherited players that play their football. These things can be coached, it's just that some coaches are better at teaching players to do things than others, that's what sets them apart.

And it kills the argument that we would need to completely rebuild if we wanted to replace Ole with any of these 3 managers.

I remember when Pochettino took over at Soton and in a couple of weeks they played us out of park at OT iirc, with an impressive pressing game. Looked very much liked when we played his mentor Bielsa and Athletic Bilbao..

We only won by a goal I think after an individual mistake but I was shocked by how good they looked.

Thinks like this can be coached pretty quickly if you have a intelligent coachwho can pass the instructions well and players willing to listen to adapt to the game. I believe we have a good squad for him (or for anyone really) to work with. Fred, VdB, Bruno is potentially awesome midfieldto start with. He would need to replace Lindelof and Martial. But still there is Cavani and Rashford for now, with Greenwood upping his stamina levels every game..

He also had worse fullbacks: Rose, Davies, Trippier than we have in Shaw, AWB and someone like Williams could be made into a goodone as well.

I knowthis thread is about Nagelsmann, rose and hasenhuttl but what have these three achieved, yes you´re right absolutely nothing. Poch is more experienced and coached at a higher level to start with.

 

[gerdm07]

With Moyes, yes I agree. But with Jose and LVG, no way unless he wins a trophy this year. yes we need to fire and hire until we get the right guy. Most business would be bankrupt if you keep the incompetent CEO in charge for the fear if you fire him the next guy may be worse. You do your due diligence and hire the best man for the job. Yes Woodward fecked it by hiring him in the first place after we beat PSG.

I don't know. League Cups, FA Cups and Europa League are really not that important to me. EL is only a good title if you need it to make the CL, otherwise it's not that exciting. FA Cup is nice if it's part of a treble, otherwise a big yawn. League Cup, whoopeee.

I'll say it again, Ole's good matches have been better and more fun to watch than LVG and Mourinho's by far. That and 3rd last season signal progress. Any CEO that improves the bottom line and the product would be kept on. That's what Ole has done. He definitely could be better and I think he will improve. A change now could result in 6th or 7th and another 2 years of rebuilding. No company would take that chance.

 

[Foxbatt]

I don't know. League Cups, FA Cups and Europa League are really not that important to me. EL is only a good title if you need it to make the CL, otherwise it's not that exciting. FA Cup is nice if it's part of a treble, otherwise a big yawn. League Cup, whoopeee.

I'll say it again, Ole's good matches have been better and more fun to watch than LVG and Mourinho's by far. That and 3rd last season signal progress. Any CEO that improves the bottom line and the product would be kept on. That's what Ole has done. He definitely could be better and I think he will improve. A change now could result in 6th or 7th and another 2 years of rebuilding. No company would take that chance.

He hasn't done better than Jose either in the PL or in Europe. Yes he got third place in the PL. LVG got 4th place and the fa cup.
Jose at least won the EL. Ole has not won anything.
There is no progress unless he wins something. His bad days are worse than anyone's. His good days are extremely rare. Yes the PSG wins was good but then his loss in Istanbul was horrible.
He has much better players than either Jose or LVG. Agree LVG was terrible in the transfer market.

 

[Champ]

I remember when Pochettino took over at Soton and in a couple of weeks they played us out of park at OT iirc, with an impressive pressing game. Looked very much liked when we played his mentor Bielsa and Athletic Bilbao..

We only won by a goal I think after an individual mistake but I was shocked by how good they looked.

Thinks like this can be coached pretty quickly if you have a intelligent coachwho can pass the instructions well and players willing to listen to adapt to the game. I believe we have a good squad for him (or for anyone really) to work with. Fred, VdB, Bruno is potentially awesome midfieldto start with. He would need to replace Lindelof and Martial. But still there is Cavani and Rashford for now, with Greenwood upping his stamina levels every game..

He also had worse fullbacks: Rose, Davies, Trippier than we have in Shaw, AWB and someone like Williams could be made into a goodone as well.

I knowthis thread is about Nagelsmann, rose and hasenhuttl but what have these three achieved, yes you´re right absolutely nothing. Poch is more experienced and coached at a higher level to start with.

What higher level has Poch coached at compared to Rose or Naglesmann out of interest?

Poch has won absolutely nothing from a decade in the management game and is another who seem bereft of any alternative thinking when things go against him. Whilst the jury is out on the three aformentioned coaches, they at least have some pedigree behind them in terms of trophies.

 

[Mcking]

Big fan of Hasenhuttl, but still Marco Rose for me. Excellent coach and a wonderful personality. Good age too.

 

[gerdm07]

He hasn't done better than Jose either in the PL or in Europe. Yes he got third place in the PL. LVG got 4th place and the fa cup.
Jose at least won the EL. Ole has not won anything.
There is no progress unless he wins something. His bad days are worse than anyone's. His good days are extremely rare. Yes the PSG wins was good but then his loss in Istanbul was horrible.
He has much better players than either Jose or LVG. Agree LVG was terrible in the transfer market.

LVG 4th and FA Cup with some of the most boring football I've watched as a United fan. No thanks, Ole is much better.

Mourinho 2nd and EL (again, whoopee) and some of the most defensive matches (Seville?). Add in the poisonous atmosphere and clearly Ole > Mou.

"There is no progress unless he wins something." So all would be good if we had a few lucky bounces last year and won either the League Cup or EL? This would have made you happy and not be asking for Ole to be fired? Sure.

 

[Teja]

There is no progress unless he wins something. His bad days are worse than anyone's. His good days are extremely rare. Yes the PSG wins was good but then his loss in Istanbul was horrible.

Not a chance. Bad days are way better than under Jose / LvG. Good days are clearly not rare judging by our league form over the past year which is basically as good as Liverpool.

 

[Polar]

There is no progress unless he wins something.

Your argument is to easy. Things aren’t black or white.

Only PL and CL matters to me: one is unrealistic and two is impossible. At this stage (in the restructuring process) It’s fair to demand United to stabilise among top 4 in PL, get rid of deadwood and bring new talents and leaders into the squad, and off course show signs of great potential - expected to be unleashed next season.

 

[Polar]

Why? They got more out of worse players than we have. Can our players not run as much or something?

I’m not sure Leipzig have worse players than us.. I think their worst players are better then ours, but our best players are better than theirs. Maybe the average level is pretty much the same?

 

[bond19821982]

I’m not sure Leipzig have worse players than us.. I think their worst players are better then ours, but our best players are better than theirs. Maybe the average level is pretty much the same?

Except for Konate or Upamecano, we have better players in almost every single position but put them in our lineup and they will be horrible.

Say Angelino- he would be slaughtered here as a LB and is not better than Shaw but he is probably one of the best left backs in that lineup. Its purely down to coaching and their style.

 

[Invictus]

Nagelsmann, if only because of a minor personal and aesthetic preference.

• Right from his Hoffenheim days you could tell that some of his Guardiola and Tuchel inspired vertical Juego de Posición theories would suit the profile of a major club like Barcelona or Bayern (that aim to dominate games on the ball), and it wasn't entirely surprising that Florentino approached him to manage Madrid. Have a few reservations regarding Hasenhüttl in particular from that standpoint as there are certain managers who, while competent, can't fully negotiate the challenges associated with the elite clubs of the contemporary period, like say Favre (harsh as that may sound as he has done well with a myriad teams and can coach an attractive style of football).
• While he hasn't won even a single bit of major silverware, his teams' performances in quite a few big matches as routine overachievers were/are very encouraging, in terms of results as well as the ambitiousness/clarity of the approach. For reference, he has 2 wins, 3 losses and 4 draws vs. Bayern in the Bundesliga — which is easily the biggest stage in Germany, and he has also projected well in the Champions League by getting the better of Atlético, Paris Saint-Germain, United and Tottenham over the last couple of years in continental competitions. That proficiency can be traced to his promising outings with Hoffenheim where he frequently displayed whip-smart tactical tendencies...

Despite the 2-1 loss, Nagelsmann’s Hoffenheim displayed an effective way to play against Liverpool’s narrow 4-3-3 press. Their flexibility in their first line involving the goalkeeper was important in outplaying Liverpool’s front three and their expansive 3-3-2-2 structure demonstrated effective pinning actions and the benefit of having a high presence on the opponents’ last line for follow-up option.

https://spielverlagerung.com/2020/08/07/nagelsmann_buildup_klopp_liverpool_press/

With a bit of luck, the grace of time and better personnel, it's not hard to envision him as a perennial winner with a traditional giant.

• Reckon he has the most old-school Fergie/Wenger type managerial potential from this group because of his persona and methodology, which might appeal to an organisation like United where there aren't a lot of carefully cultivated and optimized institutional buffers between the board-room and the head-coach. In fact, with the departure of Rangnick, he is already giving a fair account of himself as the de facto “manager” of RB Leipzig as they push forward in several competitions.
• While the growth of precocious managers isn't always linear or exponential, there's something really appealing about the fact that he's already so good despite being only 33 years old and rather naïve at times...imagine how much better he could be as he continues to evolve/mature, becomes more insightful and pragmatic and refined as an in-game decision maker, and further irons out the chinks in his already robust-ish armor.
• Good thinker from his days at Augsburg and 1860 Munich, and seems to be an effective and lucid communicator on and off the pitch:

All of that being said, there is a lot to like and in common between all three past and present RB coaches wrt. specific principles and malleability and bravery of spirit as well as slight concerns in terms of proven pedigree as recruiters, and I would be content with Rose/Marić or Hasenhüttl too (in that specific order) — especially if they are allowed to focus on training, particularly at first when they are getting acclimatized to United, by being paired with an astute DoF type specialist who procures suitable ingredients and reinforces the club's foundation behind the scenes.

 

[londonredmaniac]

I don't know. League Cups, FA Cups and Europa League are really not that important to me. EL is only a good title if you need it to make the CL, otherwise it's not that exciting. FA Cup is nice if it's part of a treble, otherwise a big yawn. League Cup, whoopeee.

I'll say it again, Ole's good matches have been better and more fun to watch than LVG and Mourinho's by far. That and 3rd last season signal progress. Any CEO that improves the bottom line and the product would be kept on. That's what Ole has done. He definitely could be better and I think he will improve. A change now could result in 6th or 7th and another 2 years of rebuilding. No company would take that chance.

Modern football at its best.

FA Cups don't matter....tbf that's what you get with this 'top 4 nonsense i suppose. Kills me that that people see the FA Cup as some sort of insignificant tournament.

 

[croadyman]

Won't get any of these three with WOODY in charge of recruitment because he is proven to be clueless on FOOTBALL matters

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Big fan of Hasenhuttl, but still Marco Rose for me. Excellent coach and a wonderful personality. Good age too.

yeah, this is my opinion too.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

What higher level has Poch coached at compared to Rose or Naglesmann out of interest?

Poch has won absolutely nothing from a decade in the management game and is another who seem bereft of any alternative thinking when things go against him. Whilst the jury is out on the three aformentioned coaches, they at least have some pedigree behind them in terms of trophies.

Lots of laugh, and what has the other three won? that is what I am comparing them altogether.

Poch managerd Espanyol who was a relegation fighting team, Southampton who was newly promoted, Spurs whowere a top6 team in a competition which is much tougher than any other league by a long mile.Every team he managed pushed them much above their weight and with limited resources as well.

Let´s not start about Hasenhuttl please, Poche has done everythign even better at Soton so far, he took them from the bottom team to a solid midtable club, spurs to top4, are those trophies sure not, but what more can you expect. The champions league run was decent too, remember how two stupid individual errors by his players cost him against "easy" Juventus fixture too one year

So again what has the other three won, except a pointless title in Austrian one team league, with RedBull money?

Then you can ofcourse compare managers with some trophies but you have to take the context into account. I bet you would rather have some dinosaur manager like Van Gaal or Mourinho here right?

 

[gerdm07]

Modern football at its best.

FA Cups don't matter....tbf that's what you get with this 'top 4 nonsense i suppose. Kills me that that people see the FA Cup as some sort of insignificant tournament.

It probably has to do with the fact I'm in the USA. We rarely get to see any FA matches on TV and I'm sure I don't appreciate the history of the FA like you Brits.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Not a chance. Bad days are way better than under Jose / LvG. Good days are clearly not rare judging by our league form over the past year which is basically as good as Liverpool.

Bad days way better? I dont remember losing 6-1 at Old Trafford against anyone under Jose or LVG. Ole has broken a lot of bad records while here, this double standard has to stop.

 

[Foxbatt]

This is the ruddy limit now. Restructuring? We need to restructure from the Manager all the way down. The owners are not going to sell so Woodward is not going to go.
Winning the PL is not unrealistic. Get a top manager and he will win in at least two years. Ole needs to be sacked if he doesn't win anything this year.
We are not fecking Arsenal to be restructuring all the time.
For the life of me I don't understand what anyone see in Ole Gunnar Solskjaer as a top manager. Getting rid of deadwood? My arse. The biggest deadwood is still around. No player gets a contract without the say so of the manager.

 

[Davie Moyes]

It is time United took a good decision instead of dithering in the styles of Moysie.

Oiii.

If I was just allowed to see out my 6 year contract I could have turned it around!

 

[Teja]

Bad days way better? I dont remember losing 6-1 at Old Trafford against anyone under Jose or LVG. Ole has broken a lot of bad records while here, this double standard has to stop.

Mourinho would've shut up shop after the red (when it was still 1-2), would've thrown Martial under the bus and sulked about it for the rest of the season.

 

[Davie Moyes]

In that context, the Van de Beek signing is actually the weirdest to me, and something that might worry new coaches. Clearly, management appointments have been a mess since SAF left, as the sequence SAF > Moyes > Van Gaal > Mourinho > Ole makes close to zero sense. There might be a little continuity from Mourinho to Ole, but the other coaches have virtually nothing in common, which makes squad development extremely hard. With Ole firmly in place last summer, though, squad development should have been geared towards his ideas - yet Van de Beek does not seem to fit Ole's approach stylistically nor any of the Ole's midfield positions tactically.

I'd love to know what happened there, and I imagine so would a new coach with strong tactical ideas (like everyone discussed here). I would imagine they would not like the idea of coming into a situation where they might get expensive players that can't play any of the roles they have in the team. (As it happens, I think Van de Beek would fit them all very well; but Ole was and is United's coach.)


I read 'beard' there first. Thanks, @Annihilate Now!

I'm surprised that's your view on VDB. He's one of the most versatile and intelligent players around so I would say he's been bought for that reason and why I think he'd fit in with any setup/manager.

 

[TheGodsInRed]

Big fan of Hasenhuttl, but still Marco Rose for me. Excellent coach and a wonderful personality. Good age too.

I dunno, I think you are looking at marco through rose tinted glasses.

 

[Cheimoon]

I'm surprised that's your view on VDB. He's one of the most versatile and intelligent players around so I would say he's been bought for that reason and why I think he'd fit in with any setup/manager.

In principle, I'd agree; VDB would fit pretty much any system. Except that Ole's current approach seems to rely a lot on individual quality, and that's the one area where you can't use VDB as much, cause he isn't someone that forces things on his own. But maybe that's too focused on games that don't go well; surely Ole would disagree with the idea that he is just letting the players do their thing or that he expects to win games through individual moments of brilliance.

Anyway, time will tell!

 

[Mcking]

I dunno, I think you are looking at marco through rose tinted glasses.

Haha, good one. Rose's a fantastic guy though. Did very well with Salzburg, and is proving it was no fluke with Moenchengladbach.

He's always been my first choice as head coach since his Salzburg days. Nagelsmann is good, but he does come across as eccentric and radical, and not sure about bringing in a 33 year old to be head coach. His age would be mentioned every other day.

Rose seems level headed, and is very likeable. I believe he has the ability to transform this team, and I'm sure the players would love him too.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Haha, good one. Rose's a fantastic guy though. Did very well with Salzburg, and is proving it was no fluke with Moenchengladbach.

He's always been my first choice as head coach since his Salzburg days. Nagelsmann is good, but he does come across as eccentric and radical, and not sure about bringing in a 33 year old to be head coach. His age would be mentioned every other day.

Rose seems level headed, and is very likeable. I believe he has the ability to transform this team, and I'm sure the players would love him too.

I'm interested in why you think so highly of Rose. He looks classy but I don't know much about him or his teams

 

[Champ]

Lots of laugh, and what has the other three won? that is what I am comparing them altogether.

Poch managerd Espanyol who was a relegation fighting team, Southampton who was newly promoted, Spurs whowere a top6 team in a competition which is much tougher than any other league by a long mile.Every team he managed pushed them much above their weight and with limited resources as well.

Let´s not start about Hasenhuttl please, Poche has done everythign even better at Soton so far, he took them from the bottom team to a solid midtable club, spurs to top4, are those trophies sure not, but what more can you expect. The champions league run was decent too, remember how two stupid individual errors by his players cost him against "easy" Juventus fixture too one year

So again what has the other three won, except a pointless title in Austrian one team league, with RedBull money?

Then you can ofcourse compare managers with some trophies but you have to take the context into account. I bet you would rather have some dinosaur manager like Van Gaal or Mourinho here right?

Wow, so trophies mean nothing, winning something means nothing.
Ok, so riddle me this...why is Poch still out of a job? So many potential jobs he could have taken yet no one is in for him...

 

[Bastian]

@Invictus

That video would be very interesting with English subtitles. Compelling points made in your post.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Wow, so trophies mean nothing, winning something means nothing.
Ok, so riddle me this...why is Poch still out of a job? So many potential jobs he could have taken yet no one is in for him...

That wasn’t his point and you know that. If a trophy was the simple lingua Franca of great coaches then there would only be a handful. And I’d remind you that Martinez and Arteta won the FA cup but would probably be ridiculed on here along with Emery. In fact Arteta is already

Poch is out of a job for a number of reasons. He’s not ready to jump into any job otherwise he’d throw his hat into the ring for every position going. The other being the economic viability of sacking a coach during the pandemic, taking a hit and Employing another coach with a huge salary.

 

[Invictus]

@Invictus

That video would be very interesting with English subtitles. Compelling points made in your post.

Oh, Youtube has a decent conversion scheme for videos without default English subitles. Only takes a couple of steps:

1. Click on the gear-shaped icon on the bottom right (next to the CC subtitles icon). You should see options like quality, speed etc.
2. Click on the auto-translated subtitles thing and you should be able to manually select English (from a whole bunch of language options).

Hope that method works for you — not perfect but typically good enough to understand 80-90% of the stuff.

Spoiler: Demo

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Bad days way better? I dont remember losing 6-1 at Old Trafford against anyone under Jose or LVG. Ole has broken a lot of bad records while here, this double standard has to stop.

Nah we got thumped 6-1 by City while the greatest manager was in charge...and he had 11 on the pitch

 

[Gazza]

Nah we got thumped 6-1 by City while the greatest manager was in charge...and he had 11 on the pitch

Except when Jonny Evans got sent off 60 seconds after half time with the score at 0-1?

 

[Champ]

That wasn’t his point and you know that. If a trophy was the simple lingua Franca of great coaches then there would only be a handful. And I’d remind you that Martinez and Arteta won the FA cup but would probably be ridiculed on here along with Emery. In fact Arteta is already

Poch is out of a job for a number of reasons. He’s not ready to jump into any job otherwise he’d throw his hat into the ring for every position going. The other being the economic viability of sacking a coach during the pandemic, taking a hit and Employing another coach with a huge salary.

Poch has thrown his hat in the Barca ring and got it thrown back in his face, he's just not on the radar of the big clubs.

Where's Martinez now? Managing one of the top international teams. Arteta is another story, but it's too early to judge him right now.

It's all about context at the end of the day, Poch done well at Spurs but nothing out of the ordinary, In all honesty the three other young mentioned managers haven't exactly achieved great things, but I would hold their achievements higher than Poch by a long way.

 

[Bastian]

Oh, Youtube has a decent conversion scheme for videos without default English subitles. Only takes a couple of steps:

1. Click on the gear-shaped icon on the bottom right (next to the CC subtitles icon). You should see options like quality, speed etc.
2. Click on the auto-translated subtitles thing and you should be able to manually select English (from a whole bunch of language options).

Hope that method works for you — not perfect but typically good enough to understand 80-90% of the stuff.

Spoiler: Demo

Greatly appreciated!